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• • • GAZA: Israel Admits that Hamas was Not Responsible for Killing the 3 Israeli Teens • • •


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Date: 25th July 2014

Things are spiralling out of control

.

 

BBC Sydney Correspondent, Jon Donnison, revealed:

Israeli police Mickey Rosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership 1/2 x

Seems to contradict the line from Netanyahu government. 2/2 x

 

Israeli police spokes Mickey Rosenfeld also said if kidnapping had been ordered by Hamas leadership, they'd have known about it in advance.x

 

Mickey Rosenfeld said lone cells much harder to track. Said they would find whoever was now protecting the two suspects x

 

 

After Israel's top leadership exhaustively blamed Hamas for kidnap of 3 teens, they've now admitted killers were acting as "lone cell."

- By Buzzfeed Middle East Correspondant, Sheera Frenkel

Her article published back on 15th June x

 

 

Related thread:

"First, and not for the first time, the Israeli army and their politicians have manipulated the Israeli public by counting on their united stance of fearing for their security and a desire for punitive action to be undertaken, illustrated through the public's encouragement and "righteous" justification to the collective punishment meted out by the army on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, during the entirety of the past three weeks, the Israeli army and politicians had information that led to the "logical assumption that the teens were no longer alive" but kept it hidden from Israeli society in the form of a media gag in order to exploit the missing settlers as a pretext for its largest incursion of the West Bank in over a decade."

- Published on 4th July. Shared here on the 10th.

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this is not confirmed,Mickey Rosenfeld has given no declarations about what the reporter said

If it is true that buzzfeed article says that Isis admitted it was them ,and i also read somewhere that they took responsability,hamas and isis are part of the muslim brotherhood so still hamas are bound to them and hamas operates near israel so,still they could have helped them

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Hamas denied this from day one. Israel is really desperate because the Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are really angry and calling for the 3RD Intifada. the Israeli really don't want an intifada.  the largest protests Israel has seen since the 2000 is currently taking place. they also can't use the Hamas is launching rockets excuse.

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this is not confirmed,Mickey Rosenfeld has given no declarations about what the reporter said

If it is true that buzzfeed article says that Isis admitted it was them ,and i also read somewhere that they took responsability,hamas and isis are part of the muslim brotherhood so still hamas are bound to them and hamas operates near israel so,still they could have helped them

When expressing your views, it helps to have basic knowledge there; ISIS can say all it wants, but ISIS doe not have the strategic ability that overshadows Israel's.... and no, Hamas and ISIS are not part of Muslims Brotherhood, and at this point, you are getting so desperate clinging on to justify why all this savage murder was necessary.

I do recall that I have asked you, multiple times, to present evidence that Hamas was responsible for the killings of the 3 Israeli teens, and in every time, you failed.

 

 

 

Hamas denied this from day one. Israel is really desperate because the Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are really angry and calling for the 3RD Intifada. the Israeli really don't want an intifada.  the largest protests Israel has seen since the 2000 is currently taking place. they also can't use the Hamas is launching rockets excuse.

The 3rd intifada is set on globalization mode, and that is different than anything Israel has ever encountered. You can tell the nerves that is within Government; from how they retreated their complete rejection of Kerry's ceasefire proposal a few hours when articles were spread regarding the recent tweets to the hours that the Israel cabinet has spent bickering on what is at stake and how to win this war. They know they are losing, which is why they plan to 'reclaim' Gaza, but that is when the 3rd intifada will rise hence why they cannot end the siege now. There is a 12hr ceasefire just now and I'm getting hold of terrifying accounts. Prosecutions must follow after international independent investigation.

 

 

 

wow.

so all this was for nothing.

speechless.

i just hope they get what they did and continue to do back tenfold.

Not 'nothing', but something far greater than Hamas - Gaza itself.

 

 

Relevant posts about Hamas: x + x

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When expressing your views, it helps to have basic knowledge there; ISIS can say all it wants, but ISIS doe not have the strategic ability that overshadows Israel's.... and no, Hamas and ISIS are not part of Muslims Brotherhood, and at this point, you are getting so desperate clinging on to justify why all this savage murder was necessary.

I do recall that I have asked you, multiple times, to present evidence that Hamas was responsible for the killings of the 3 Israeli teens, and in every time, you failed.

 

They are part,hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood,same with Isis

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is a movement, not a political party, but members have created political parties in several countries, such as the Islamic Action Front in Jordan and Hamas in Gaza

 

Preceded by Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood

 

Hamas was founded in 1987 (during the First Intifada) as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

 

Source wikipedia

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They are part,hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood,same with Isis

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is a movement, not a political party, but members have created political parties in several countries, such as the Islamic Action Front in Jordan and Hamas in Gaza

 

Preceded by Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood

 

Hamas was founded in 1987 (during the First Intifada) as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

 

Source Wikipedia

Enough said
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Lol ,you completly ignore the facts,why dont you post some facts actually denying that hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood?

The charter itself can be accessed through he links I've already posted, so don't give me pathetic Wikipedia as ways to prove anything.

 

Plus, the problem isn't in the facts, but the partial-facts; where in that Wikipedia text that you copy-and-paste does it state of the transitions that Hamas has gone through over time, and the divisions within? Nowhere. It always amazes me how Israelis are quick to pull out the Hamas's original charter to label them terrorist, and play-down Fatah's original charter, which is just as extreme as Israel's Likud by stating the eradication of the other side.

Yet, the focus is still on Hamas.

Why?

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The charter itself can be accessed through he links I've already posted, so don't give me pathetic Wikipedia as ways to prove anything.

 

Plus, the problem isn't in the facts, but the partial-facts; where in that Wikipedia text that you copy-and-paste does it state of the transitions that Hamas has gone through over time, and the divisions within? Nowhere. It always amazes me how Israelis are quick to pull out the Hamas's original charter to label them terrorist, and play-down Fatah's original charter, which is just as extreme as Israel's Likud by stating the eradication of the other side.

Yet, the focus is still on Hamas.

Why?

Hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood same with isis they are part of but still you deny it,just accept it

 

If you dont fully believe wikipedia, even the muslim brotherhood official website in english has the hamas tag,i wanted to enter to the hamas website but its down

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/tagView.php?id=Hamas

 

Im focusing on hamas because we are talking about the killing of the 3 boys where hamas was involved

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Hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood same with isis they are part of but still you deny it,just accept it

 

If you dont fully believe wikipedia, even the muslim brotherhood official website in english has the hamas tag,i wanted to enter to the hamas website but its down

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/tagView.php?id=Hamas

 

Im focusing on hamas because we are talking about the killing of the 3 boys where hamas was involved

Reliability: Charter >>>>> Wikipedia / Not only does the Charter state that Hamas is originally associated with Muslim Brotherhood, but it also states what Hamas is supposed to represent.... which means that Wikipedia is nothing in comparison to it, so when I present the charter, don't blimin respond to me with basic Wikipedia. I've also posted links to what Hamas has become over the years - so they do remain a democratically elected party, whether you like it or not.

 

Focusing on Hamas and the link to the 3 Israeli teens is like beating a dead horse.

Fact: There is no evidence

 

... because Likud was already mentioned x

They call it 'the right to exist'

 

= = =

 

What Triggered the Current Massacre?

By Norman Finkelstein

Date: 24th July 2014

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Hamas was created by the muslim brotherhood same with isis they are part of but still you deny it,just accept it

 

If you dont fully believe wikipedia, even the muslim brotherhood official website in english has the hamas tag,i wanted to enter to the hamas website but its down

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/tagView.php?id=Hamas

 

Im focusing on hamas because we are talking about the killing of the 3 boys where hamas was involved

 

Well for one, wikipedia is never a reliable source, especially on controversial topics such as this one.

 
Secondly, Hamas being on the website does not mean it's part of the muslim brotherhood. Having ties or a relationship with an organization does not mean you are part of the organization.
 
Thirdly Hamas denied having anything to do with the kidnapping and there is no proof that they did it. Additionally there's evidence and reports of the people who did it acting on their own. 
 
To add more on to this entire debate it's important to know to take news coming out of Egypt with a grain of salt and know their greater role. The Egyptian government now deems the muslim brotherhood as a terrorist organization after expelling Mohammed Morsi from his presidency. The state is basically under military rule, with former military leader SiSi now becoming president. He is cracking down on any decent against him with courts sentencing 528 Morsi supporters to death and investigating some 1,200 supporters. Since Morsi supported Hamas the current govenment (SiSi) sees them as an extension of Morsi and the brotherhood although not part of them themselves. They even have foreign journalist in jail because they "were supporting the brotherhood and speaking against the new government" even though they were just reporting the facts from the coup. 
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Reliability: Charter >>>>> Wikipedia / Not only does the Charter state that Hamas is originally associated with Muslim Brotherhood, but it also states what Hamas is supposed to represent.... which means that Wikipedia is nothing in comparison to it, so when I present the charter, don't blimin respond to me with basic Wikipedia. I've also posted links to what Hamas has become over the years - so they do remain a democratically elected party, whether you like it or not.

 

Focusing on Hamas and the link to the 3 Israeli teens is like beating a dead horse.

Fact: There is no evidence

 

... because Likud was already mentioned x

They call it 'the right to exist'

 

= = =

 

What Triggered the Current Massacre?

By Norman Finkelstein

Date: 24th July 2014

 

 

Well for one, wikipedia is never a reliable source, especially on controversial topics such as this one.

 

Secondly, Hamas being on the website does not mean it's part of the muslim brotherhood. Having ties or a relationship with an organization does not mean you are part of the organization.

 

Thirdly Hamas denied having anything to do with the kidnapping and there is no proof that they did it. Additionally there's evidence and reports of the people who did it acting on their own. 

 

To add more on to this entire debate it's important to know to take news coming out of Egypt with a grain of salt and know their greater role. The Egyptian government now deems the muslim brotherhood as a terrorist organization after expelling Mohammed Morsi from his presidency. The state is basically under military rule, with former military leader SiSi now becoming president. He is cracking down on any decent against him with courts sentencing 528 Morsi supporters to death and investigating some 1,200 supporters. Since Morsi supported Hamas the current govenment (SiSi) sees them as an extension of Morsi and the brotherhood although not part of them themselves. They even have foreign journalist in jail because they "were supporting the brotherhood and speaking against the new government" even though they were just reporting the facts from the coup.

 

Well,hamas leader Khaled Mashal joined the muslim brotherhood in 1971,so they still have a bound,maybe they are not part but they could have helped them,what would isis be doing in west bank if they focus on their islamic state ?

 

 

ISIS is a cousin of Hamas. Both organizations are outgrowths of the Muslim Brotherhood. Its current leader came out of the Muslim Brotherhood and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man originally behind Al Qaeda in Iraq, was released from a Jordanian prison to win favor with the local Muslim Brotherhood.

 

When Zarqawi was finally killed, Hamas issued a statement mourning him as “a martyr of the nation.†Protesters in Gaza demanded revenge for his death. The Islamic Action Front, the Brotherhood’s political arm in Jordan, openly expressed its admiration for the mass murderer.

ISIS, Hamas and the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood have all driven out Christians in areas under the control of their Jihadists. Hamas’ attacks on Israel are motivated by that same xenophobic impulse.

 

Mashal joined the Muslim Brotherhood in 1971

 

 

Article two of `The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement,' published August 18, 1988, uses the phrase `wing of the Muslim Brotherhood.' Some observers believe that Hamas is actually the military wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, noting that Hamas members that have been deported from Israel are working closely with the Muslim Brotherhood in surrounding countries, collecting funds and recruiting new members from the larger organization.

 

Hamas usually has the backing of the Muslim Brotherhood. An Israeli author who follows the situation believes that Hamas has also been the beneficiary of alliances with other Islamic groups `that neither identify with nor support it.'

 

Hamas Covenant 1988

The Covenant

of the

Islamic Resistance Movement

18 August 1988

 

Article Two:

 

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine. Moslem Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times. It is characterised by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgement, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.

 

 

That bbc correspondant isnt a reliable source too

He once posted this

 

article-2236209-1624F2D7000005DC-732_634

 

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Well,hamas leader Khaled Mashal joined the muslim brotherhood in 1971,so they still have a bound,maybe they are not part but they could have helped them,what would isis be doing in west bank if they focus on their islamic state ?

 

 

ISIS is a cousin of Hamas. Both organizations are outgrowths of the Muslim Brotherhood. Its current leader came out of the Muslim Brotherhood and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man originally behind Al Qaeda in Iraq, was released from a Jordanian prison to win favor with the local Muslim Brotherhood.

 

When Zarqawi was finally killed, Hamas issued a statement mourning him as “a martyr of the nation.†Protesters in Gaza demanded revenge for his death. The Islamic Action Front, the Brotherhood’s political arm in Jordan, openly expressed its admiration for the mass murderer.

ISIS, Hamas and the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood have all driven out Christians in areas under the control of their Jihadists. Hamas’ attacks on Israel are motivated by that same xenophobic impulse.

 

Mashal joined the Muslim Brotherhood in 1971

 

 

Article two of `The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement,' published August 18, 1988, uses the phrase `wing of the Muslim Brotherhood.' Some observers believe that Hamas is actually the military wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, noting that Hamas members that have been deported from Israel are working closely with the Muslim Brotherhood in surrounding countries, collecting funds and recruiting new members from the larger organization.

 

Hamas usually has the backing of the Muslim Brotherhood. An Israeli author who follows the situation believes that Hamas has also been the beneficiary of alliances with other Islamic groups `that neither identify with nor support it.'

 

Hamas Covenant 1988

The Covenant

of the

Islamic Resistance Movement

18 August 1988

 

 

 

That bbc correspondant isnt a reliable source too

He once posted this

 

article-2236209-1624F2D7000005DC-732_634

 

 

Hmm saying ISIS and and Hamas are cousins seems like a Netanyahu talking point. I don't really know why they were brought in the first place. Most arabs don't agree with them, like even al-qeda  doesn't associate with them. The only way I can see Hamas as being anything similar to Isis is that they don't think Israel has legitimacy in their existence and therefor shouldn't exist.

 

Political parties and organizations split from one another all the time and all have their own "wings." So I don't see the muslim brotherhood and Hamas as the same thing, but they may have a relationship with one another. Likewise I think the broadness of the brotherhood makes it easier to makes these claims.

---

Regardless if Hamas was not in power I still feel the same thing would be happening in Gaza. I mean there's terrible occupation going on in the West Bank and it definitely is not free, with the recent destruction of a mosque back in April (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/29/us-israel-palestinian-demolition-idUSBREA3S0C320140429)

 

So honestly I feel Israel just uses Hamas as a scapegoat to justify their attacks. There was a blockade on Gaza long before Hamas came into power, but the talking point is "the airspace and water is cut off because Hamas will just use it to attack." Ultimately Israel can't blame the creation of Hamas on no one, but themselves.  

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1. MANY MOVEMENTS AND PARTIES

 

a) This thread is about Palestine

 

b) Muslim Brotherhood - Technically, it is not a 'worldwide/universal organization'; they do not gather together in a big meeting rooms nor do they have one leader that unites them all nor are they as united in views as many assume, which is seen evidently in every Hezbollah speech including the most recent. The undertones that Muslim Brotherhood is a strategic terrorist organization is disturbing especially since their term 'Muslim Brotherhood' is in the Islamic Ummah.

 

c) ISIS - as their name suggests - focuses on Iraq and Syria. All notions that ISIS and Hamas are identical to one another because of their association to Muslim Brotherhood is clearly that with intent to link in Islam, which is heavily linked to terrorism here. They're so different that it strongly defies facts already established over the years, especially since Hamas gave in to Fatah, and subsequently US/EU. On another note, it is impossible to achieve 'wings' that are identical because they're Humans, not robots, meaning that they all have their own unique identities.

 

d) Al Qaeda - funded and trained by America until they became 'powerful' - Reminder: There is no link between Iraq and 9/11, therefore the war against Iraq is illegal, and by definition the real terrorist is the America Government. Never under Al Qaeda or Saddam was Abu Ghariab disgustingly notorious, yet they still call it 'liberation'... but your focus is on Muslim Brotherhood connections so it is vital to ignore that in order to dehumanize the people and then ridicule those Arabs who mourned him for fighting against the greater terrorists. Had he been an Israel, I'm sure you would have excused those reactions.

 

e) This thread is about Palestine

 

Any talks that are to deviate away from Palestine are to be taken to other threads.

This thread will focus on what happens in Palestine and Israel.

 

 

 

2. HAMAS

 

There's an underlying tone that Hamas, a political party (formed by the 1st Intifada), that has association with the Muslim Brotherhood movement is therefore ilegitmate - terrorist and a rejectionist - whereas, Likud, Israel's leading party, is stemmed from the Movement for Greater Israel (where you can trace the Livni connection to the first originators of Israel), which committed numerous acts of terrorism to eliminate Arabs in the name of Zionism, has received no mention. The most noteable is the a 6-days war in 1967, for the 'Promised Land', where the 'wing' of the Israeli movement gained legitimaization 10-years later in the form of loyalty i.e. they made it in to government with the support of more religious parties.

Quotes from the Likud Charter, the most recent document was released in 1999:

 

 

"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."

 

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs."

 

"Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem, including the plan to divide the city presented to the Knesset by the Arab factions and supported by many members of Labor and Meretz."

(I am still struggling finding the full document online but would appreacie it if anyone could share the link if they come across it.)

 

The Hamas charter is replete with religious utopian thinking and far-fetched aspirations, but that is no excuse why the most recent document, the 2006 election manesto, should not be ignored. It didn't stop Likud, so why should it stop Hamas whose document, unlike Lukid's, acknowledges the other side and requests a two-state solution?

Israelis who refuse to acknowledge that Hamas is demanding the retreat to 1967-borders do so out of paranoia of the Zionist dream and the effects it will have on 'Greater Israel'. From the very start, Hamas has sought independence for Palestine. In the 2006 election manifesto, it clearly stated the support for a two-state solution so it makes sense that the only political party that seeks that is one that is subjected to constant negativity; parting away from the controlling grip of Israel is interpreted as challenging the 'soverignity' of the 'diplomatic' state. Israel is a state that has forced extremist policies on Palestinians for decades, and have distorted the landscape to he extent that the prospects of genuine peace is tarnished....

 

... which takes us to the ultimate question; who is the greater threat to peace, the Muslim Brotherhood or the Zionist movement?

 

 

Observation to leave at the side, the emphasis that this conflict is Muslims against Christians when in reality Christians are too under Israel's occupation id dodgy. In fact, many Christians are not allowed access to the Holy sites of Bethlehem, just as majority of Muslims are not allowed to access Jerusalem. This year, no Muslim was allowed to pray inside Al Aqsa mosque on the final Friday of Ramadan. As for Christians, Christmas trees are banned.

Though I can see why Israel has been putting effort on creating tensions between Muslims and Christians, it cannot be denied that Christians are too subject to the illegal apartheid and ethnic cleansing of Zionism, the movement where Judaism is heavily politicized to create the most successful secular movement today.

The conflict is all about Zionism, not religion.

 

 

 

3. THE THREE ISRAELI TEENS

 

All these deviations are avoidance of the reality that there is no evidence that Hamas did kill the Israeli teens.

 

 

 

 

What is the problem with that tweet? A journalist showed emotion? He retweeted an Arab? Or is he an Arab Muslim? And what is the story behind that tweet? Where is the direct link for me to even know that it actually exists? If there is something to be proven, surely it would be made clear.

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Nope..israhell want to stop it but dont want to see as achicken....their soldier really lost the motivation to continue ...now the use reason of 3 kidnapped teens were actually wrong. Real thing is the feel ashamed because theyre defeated by small number of soldier with less shopisticated weapons....futhermore al-qassam burn down their jets, the tanks...and even catch their soldier alive. Idf got 750000 soldiers whereas al qassam only 30k.

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Nope..israhell want to stop it but dont want to see as achicken....their soldier really lost the motivation to continue ...now the use reason of 3 kidnapped teens were actually wrong. Real thing is the feel ashamed because theyre defeated by small number of soldier with less shopisticated weapons....futhermore al-qassam burn down their jets, the tanks...and even catch their soldier alive. Idf got 750000 soldiers whereas al qassam only 30k.

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