(Pann-Choa)[theqoo] "NO KIDS ZONE" TO "NO MIDDLE AGE ZONE"... WHAT DO YOU THINK OF IT?

[CannotBNamed]

T/N: this year in Korea, some restaurants and public spaces have re-introduced the "No Kids Zone" policy, basically saying that the place doesn't welcome kids. It sparked a huge debate but some restaurants and cafes have now applied the rule. You can also see on their SNS "#NoKidsZone written in their description. No Kids Zone started in 2014, but gained a lot more popularity this year due to pandemic, you can read more here

 

Following the 'No Kids Zone', the 'No Middle Age(Elder/Senior) Zone' appeared. 

 

After No Kids Zone, various establishments such as No Study Zone, No Youtuber Zone, and No Middle Age Zone that block access to specific groups started to spurt.

 

Recently, on social media, a campsite that banned reservations for couples over 40 became controversial. The citizen said on SNS said "I feel offended because of my age." "I was looking for a campsite, but found one place, couples over 40 can't take reservations. The reason being it was a place with an atmosphere where young people come so [elders] don't suit the vibe” he posted on the 16th.

 

There was a series of comments criticizing it as clear discrimination. One netizen wrote, "Korea is a very transparent and discriminatory country." There were also complaints about the whole ‘No 00 Zone’ situation, which has become more and more common in daily lives. One netizen said, "It is still quiet now because young children do not have the right to speak loudly (t/n: speaking about No Kids Zone)," and said, "If it was the No Ajumma Zone, No Ajussi Zone, and No Man Zone, people would've stoop up for themselves calling it discriminatory". 

 

In the case of a caravan campsite in the metropolitan area (a mobile house that can be hung and dragged from a car), on the 26th, as a result of validating the claims, they confirmed that they did not accept reservations from middle-aged people because they said they did not fit the 'shop concept'. The owner stated that, in addition to customers in their 40s or older, they do not accept mixed men and women teams, teams with five or more women, and men's teams.

 

The establishment announced through a notice that “the campground is a multi-use facility and soundproofing is poor.” “In order to prevent problems caused by high-pitched banging and excessive drinking, the overall concept of the shop became a couple-only and female-only campsite.” They emphasized again, “The caravan is tailored to the tastes of customers in their 20s and 30s, especially young women, so the concept does not fit at all with customers in their 40s or older.”

 

The National Human Rights Commission of Korea judged that the age-based restrictions on No Kids Zone in 2017 were unreasonable and constituted an act of discrimination against children. In relation to the case of A, who ran a No Kids Zone restaurant on Jeju Island in November 2016, the National Human Rights Commission of Korea found that the No Kids Zone business violated Article 2, No. 3 of the National Human Rights Commission Act. This provision stipulates that it is a discriminatory treatment based on gender, religion, age, appearance, etc.

 

The Human Rights Committee said, “Article 11 of the Constitution stipulates that ‘no one shall be discriminated against in all areas of political, economic, social and cultural life on the basis of gender, religion or social status’.”  However, “Freedom of business is not unrestricted,”. The Human Rights Commission “recommended” not to discriminate against children based on their age without reasonable reasons.

 

If the Anti-Discrimination Act is enforced, and if the No Kids Zone is operated, it will be classified as discrimination, and the operator will be given a corrective order, and in case of non-compliance, it is expected that the victim will be able to receive support such as legal aid. However, the Anti-Discrimination Act has not crossed the threshold of the National Assembly for 15 years since the government submitted the bill to the National Assembly following the recommendation of the Human Rights Commission in 2006.

 

Shin Kyungah, a sociology professor at Hallim University, said, “Of course, it is a business place, but it is a clear violation of human rights to prevent a specific group from coming to a certain place or space."

 

Professor Shin said, “In a way, ‘privilege’ is given to those who can enter the space. Children, the elderly, and the middle-aged are separated and excluded,” she said. “Separating and excluding certain groups is a dangerous phenomenon that encourages intergenerational conflict.”

 

source: http://www.kukinews.com//newsView/kuk202111260146

 

original post: here

 

1. This doesn't even surprises me, No Kids Zone has become the norm now 

 

2. I'm turning 40 in one month.. ㅎㅎㅎ

 

3. So they can just gather in a place where there are no kids and no seniors and live on their own 

 

4. So scary, this is going to fuel hatred slowly... 

 

5. This just means that the owners of those businesses are r*tards. They're just planting the seed for another generational war

 

6. Do these people think they'll never age?ㅡㅡ

 

7. I'm so shocked seeing people considering anything No OO Zone discriminatory and hateful, but when it comes to No Kids Zone, they say that it's not hatred..

I can't help but laugh at the logic where they say that kids can disturb other guests, so No Kids Zone isn't considered hate.

There's no way to reason with these people, so what do you expect them to understand?

 

8. No Kids Zone is so so, but this No Senior Zone makes me wonder if they aren't aware they will also age?ㅋㅋ  Are there any other society in this world as selfish as ours? This f*cking sucks. If these people's parents went somewhere and got f*cking ignored at, will they stay still?ㅋㅋ 

 

9.I knew that the people who agreed with No Kids Zone would never agree with No Senior Zoneㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ  These people who love No Kids Zone are mostly in their late 30s

 

10. And people were okay with No Kids Zone just a moment ago?ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ  Me too I hope to not see ajussis anymore~~

 

11. We need to create the No Rude Customer Zone

 

12. No Elder Zone...? No way... Do they not know that elders are the ones who spend the most in businesses?

 

13. Just go ahead and create No Teens Zone, No 20s Zone, No 30s Zone and No Human Zone while you're at it 

 

14. Do they not age themselves? No Kids Zone already sucks, but this one seriously sucks

 

15. The businesses who are declaring themselves "No OO Zone"  will be the first one to call for discrimination when their group will be in the No OO Zone

 

16. Since you guys were okay with No Kids Zone, surely you need to conform to No Elder Zone tooㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ  I personally hate both 

 

17. Do whatever you want but I'm not gonna visit your place

 

18. I bet people who will turn 20s and 30s will abuse their power soon 

 

19. So they only want to earn money from people in their 20s and 30s?ㅋㅋ  I bet they'll get sulky when they find they can't earn money 

 

20. I did agree with No Kids Zone for a little while  in the past, but I realized how short sighted I was. You shouldn't treat people based on any group they belong

[starsocks]

both are stupid... don't open a business if you're not prepared to welcome all members of society

[seokii]

I fully support no-kids-zones, I wish we had that here lol

But you can't do that to adults

unless it's specifically gender (and I wish that didn't need to be a thing, it's almost always to protect women)

[seokii]

I think Korean kids must be better behaved in public for anyone to even care about discriminating against them

In the US it would 100% be "you're discriminating against parents!!! I'm so oppressed as a parent!!" lol

[AstroBaby]

This is stupid if you don't want kids or older people in your business, just don't cater to them and 90% of the time they won't show up anyway. Like if a restaurant doesn't have a kids menu or high chairs parents probably won't take their kids there, and if you're constantly playing the newest indie tunes/decorating with modern art in your coffee shop you're going to have more young people show up or older people who aren't boomer types. There's no need for obvious discrimination.  

[Locke03]

Actually...this isn't something new. In Seattle Public Library, Washington,  there is a section that is sectioned off for only teenagers (?) where adults are forbidden to go in, so that teenagers are able to relax and conduct their research without adult interference...third floor, teen center. In Los Angeles, public park restrict unaccompanied adult to be near the park's playground.

I understand...this might sprout age segregation...but then there's so many gray areas. Club entrance is restricted to a certain age. Some restaurants or businesses refuse to serve people who wear masks or vice verse. Underaged children cannot stay in the casino's gambling area without accompany by an adult. There's restaurants that refuse service for people's attire. In the past (and maybe now), businesses refuse service due a person's race. 

Basically....there's no clear cut correct answer because many factors come into play (too many ifs and buts...minor or major) that are legally within the boundary of the law.

An interesting read: https://lindleylawoffice.com/blog/2017/11/15/legal-ban-kids-from-restaurants/

I acknowledge that the article only refers to U.S. which does not pertain to S. Korea. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Locke03
additional info

[Danee Danee]

I just hate people who are obviously out of place but demand to get perks as in bussinesses targeting them. Like parents demanding staff of adult oriented restaurant to take care of their kids and entertain them etc. Same goes for older people going to music cafe but demanding music to be turned off or adults going to teenage club and telling teenagers to quiet down and act like adults.

[Eirene29]

There is/was a huge debate about no-kids restaurants/bars/etc here in Italy too. The public seems to be divided pretty evenly on this issue. There's plenty of people that literally don't know how to handle their kids and let them run in restaurants making waiters trip and disturbing other customers. I've also witnessed it, it's common. It's not like suddenly EVERY place everywhere is going to be kids free, so I don't see the problem. There's room for both businesses. 

There's already other type of businesses that do no allow kids in, no body complains about it though...

[panqueque]

I think it depends if it cause more harm than good. For general spaces the problem isn't the age/gender is how they behave, like some people enjoy the cafes/camping or restaurants and they might not meet the requirements to enter the space and that is discrimination. This however doesn't apply to spaces that legally shouldn't be for everyone, like bars or casinos.

[Poetry]

Kids can be a safety or liability issue for employees.  I don't see how 40-somethings (or 50-somethings) can be a safety or liability issue compared to 20 and 30-somethings.  I can understand people who are afraid of the higher likelihood of having to give CPR if a business is full of geriatric customers.

[tigerandbambi]

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) is a legally-binding international agreement setting out the civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of every child, regardless of their race, religion or abilities. South Korea is not excluded.

If an establishment or place doesn't have a very clear and legal reason to exclude certain age groups (like casinos), it's a discrimination and legit reason to get sued. This 'no-kids' or 'no-seniors' bs wouldn't fly in the west for a second.

No wonder South Korea ranks worst in OECD for poverty in old age and also has the lowest birth rate in the world (!!) when they treat big parts of their own society like this.

[sakurahanabira]

6 hours ago, starsocks said:

both are stupid... don't open a business if you're not prepared to welcome all members of society

?? The No Kids Zone makes perfect sense if your business is geared towards adults, e.g. bars. A lot of upscale fine dining restaurants that serve expensive meals (like over $100 per plate) also tend to be childfree establishments due to the clientele. Kids have no business being in those types of establishments. Bars and fine dining restaurants are rarely going to have kids meals on the menu, and kids should not be anywhere near bars where alcoholic beverages are the only type of beverage served. 

[sakurahanabira]

1 hour ago, tigerandbambi said:

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) is a legally-binding international agreement setting out the civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of every child, regardless of their race, religion or abilities. South Korea is not excluded.

If an establishment or place doesn't have a very clear and legal reason to exclude certain age groups (like casinos), it's a discrimination and legit reason to get sued. This 'no-kids' or 'no-seniors' bs wouldn't fly in the west for a second.

No wonder South Korea ranks worst in OECD for poverty in old age and also has the lowest birth rate in the world (!!) when they treat big parts of their own society like this.

actually there are many childfree restaurants in the US: https://cfplaces.com/places/restaurants/

[starsocks]

14 hours ago, melancholic autumn said:

?? The No Kids Zone makes perfect sense if your business is geared towards adults, e.g. bars. A lot of upscale fine dining restaurants that serve expensive meals (like over $100 per plate) also tend to be childfree establishments due to the clientele. Kids have no business being in those types of establishments. Bars and fine dining restaurants are rarely going to have kids meals on the menu, and kids should not be anywhere near bars where alcoholic beverages are the only type of beverage served. 

ok yes, I support bars being no kids zones lol

[iiiw]

There are holidays that you can book where the age limit is +16. I would love to visit one of those as a couple! Pool without jumping children and fighting families sounds like a dream. 

The thing is, if the restriction is something you can access at some point in the future (anything from a bar that is 30+ only, drivers license to senior housing) I don't think it is discriminatory. But if an establishment is going to tell someone that they are not welcome because they turned freaking 40, they can in my opinion go bankrupt, wont be missed. 

If you fail to target your wanted customer group and attract older people instead, it's not the customers age that is at fault. They can state in the legal print/website/branding that your camping is loud and young and you have no silence time in the night - no complaints allowed. Basic business marketing.. I don't know why this bugs me, maybe cause I have fealt recently that a woman is never the right age..