A possible alternative to military enlistment

[satoori]

Male idols serving as diplomats.

Recently BTS visit President Moon at Blue House, receive diplomatic passports and new perks

https://onehallyu.com/topic/843670-bts-visit-president-moon-at-blue-house-receive-diplomatic-passports-and-new-perks/

 Perhaps this "social experiment" with BTS could benefit other male idols in the near future.

 

 

r/kpop comments:

1. I  think the best would be to go through basic and then serve as diplomats using their status. They could travel and hold concerts for the military and high ranking officials around the world and work with the UN during that time.

This way they are still serving their country and people would not get mad.

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2. I agree. I don't think they'll call it exemption, but rather 'alternative service'. That means they'll likely still complete basic military training like gold-medalists do, but then their diplomatic role will be considered a form of service and they'll be expected to undertake a number of duties to promote Korea to the world. The government seems to be steering it that way, what with the photo ops and peppering BTS' name into several speeches that refer to their global reach and impact. It feels like a very subtle campaign from Moon's administration to convince the public that BTS are a great benefiter to the country as a soft power... and from my (admittedly limited) understanding it's proving effective.

I'm sure some Koreans will be mad about it, but I think Dynamite getting to number 1 on Billboard was a huge turning point. They appeared on the evening news and started to become household names, then they appeared on a couple of very popular K-variety shows. From what I've seen and heard, public opinion towards their military service has softened quite a lot particularly in the past year, and I think they would be very careful about how it was framed in order to minimise any damage to their public appeal.

Today's receipt of the certificates and diplomatic passports feels hugely symbolic. Like the Order of Cultural Merit medals, I wouldn't be surprised if a future ruling was passed to not specifically refer to BTS, but make it so that only BTS qualify (and any other groups in future who reach their level) by stating those in receipt of the certificates/passports do not need to serve active duty.

We'll have to see what happens, but this is very much the impression I'm getting as I watch this unfold in real-time.

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3. I honestly think BTS won't go to the army whenever that day comes. I think they'll get some sort of exception that allows them to skip it like Korean athletes do cause SK makes way to much money with them at the helm of the Hallyu Wave and with them constantly getting awards and recognition for spreading Korean culture worldwide, I feel it's already being set up.

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4. The government will definitely miss the soft power influence and money coming into the country. It's a pill they'd rather not swallow if they can avoid it. Fans want to get romantic about it but at the end of the day the government hides behind kpop groups, kdrama actors, and athletes whenever it benefits them.

BTS members will probably still have to do that extremely short basic training program that athletes have to do when they win a medal, but that's nothing compared to the full enlistment period.

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5. koreans mad over it?its kinda mixed reaction from them tbh many r happy

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6. (reply to #5) Yeah from what I can gather it’s more positive than negative… or should I say more indifferent in that I don’t think many see it as a huge issue what happens. It’s impossible to please everyone anyway so we’ll just have to see what’s agreed - it won’t be an overnight decision that’s for sure

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7. It is seeming more like they will join the military, do their bootcamp bit and then be given special assignments as military attachés of some sort.

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8. While some people use the example of athletes getting exemptions to push the case for other professions to get exemptions, you should be aware that athlete exemptions are highly controversial in of itself.

They were introduced in 1973 by the dictator Park Chung-hee, who was pushing for South Koreans to bring home medals in major sports — to distract the population from its dissatisfaction over his rule

Korea's conscription law by definition requires all able-bodied men to serve in the military or other supporting roles. Total exemptions for athletes in essence chips away at the supposed fairness of the system, but it is somewhat tolerated due to stringent requirements: which is to win a medal at the Olympics or Gold at the Asian Games.

You're not wrong about the impact of BTS, but what would the specific wording be for their exemption? If it's that they're making an X amount of money for the economy, then why not exempt all the rich kids with backing from their CEO fathers? As for cultural outreach- would it make sense to make a exemption law based on who tops a foreign music chart?

It's a difficult conversation to progress without putting into question the entire conscription system and demoralize the people serving- hence why it's better to not start this conversation at all.

No matter how justified, judging a person's worth as a case for exemption can always be seen as inconsiderate to the majority of average Korean guys who has to stop their studies/careers to join mandatory service. Their time shouldn't be worth less than any other figure in society.

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9. It is seeming more like they will join the military, do their bootcamp bit and then be given special assignments as military attachés of some sort.

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10. (reply to #8) [athlete exemptions are highly controversial] I don't see much backlash for it, no footballer's being cancelled for being exempted

[what would the specific wording be for their exemption?] They already settled that with the postponement

[why not exempt all the rich kids with backing from their CEO fathers?] I never got that comparison. You can replace a CEO, and certainly their kids, without many people noticing, but you can hardly put someone else in Son Heungmin or BTS' spot

[Their time shouldn't be worth less than any other figure in society.] Of course not, but then it would be rather hypocritical to say it's better not to start the discussion, wouldn't it? Athletes, classical musicians, phd students etc can all just keep their head down while BTS just has to bear the brunt of it?

I'm not really trying to argue military enlistment here, more so the contradiction in defending the exemptions for certain groups while not being open to discussing it for others.

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11. (reply to #8 )Two genuine questions: how is exempting an individual or group of individuals who clearly bring great specific glory and prosperity to Korea offending those who are expected to support Korea in other ways? You also say 'potentially', but do you have specific proof there would be significant backlash to the level of the Asian Games against BTS? They are so acknowledged for their contribution widely in SK, are you so sure that the support wouldn't outweigh the complaints?

2nd question - is the Asian games issue really a fair comparison? much of the controversy was because the whole team, including the bench warmers, were exempted, and that all it took was one tournament to get there. The superstar athletes weren't the issue so much as how many got out so easily.

BTS have had a sustained impact over several years and are still at their peak and bringing great prestige to their country. Very different situation than for the majority of those exempted footie players.

I'd think that about now would be the time we'd see very loud anger about all the special consideration BTS is getting, and news orgs, antis, and such would be ALL over that and translating in as many languages as possible, but I'm not seeing proof of such.

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12. I also actually will not complain if they serve as it's not my society, and think there's a very good chance the final outcome will end up being a sort of basic training + diplomatic service or arts service that is unique to them.

But I believe the point I and many are making is that as BTS' impact is so extraordinary on the country, the country's economy, and how they're viewed internationally that an exception is less arbitrary than it is trying to find a solution to the issue of one single group doing something that has never been done and quite honestly is very unlikely to be replicated anytime soon.

That is perhaps why the awards that no one else in their age range is eligible for, diplomatic privileges (which are almost never given to those younger than 35), etc - the outcome might not be random or arbitrary but instead extremely specific. That of course will piss off the 'but no one else can reach that!' crowd, but as you point out, that's exactly the point.

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13. I'm of the opposite opinion. I think it's a legitimate discussion to question why BTS and their enormous soft power would not be up for an exemption where others, much less impactful for Korea, are. Personally, I'm not expecting an exemption, but I do think they should at least consider a different interpretation of enlistment for them.

[pinkpanda_spirit]

I will never understand why international fans must give their 2 cents and debate over military exemption. Like, are you a korean man? No. Do you live in Korea? No. Do you have the right to vote / talk about their political issues ? No. So shut the f up 

This is a sensitive and serious issue in SK so let the korean governement do their thing (and koreans say their opinion).

I mean it's funny seeing them writing all these essays when it doesn't even concern them or their family

Edited September 15, 2021 by pinkpanda_spirit

[satoori]

22 minutes ago, pinkpanda_spirit said:

I will never understand why international fans must give their 2 cents and debate over military exemption. Like, are you a korean man? No. Do you live in Korea? No. Do you have the right to vote / talk about their political issues ? No. So shut the f up 

This is a sensitive and serious issue in SK so let the korean governement do their thing (and koreans say their opinion).

I mean it's funny seeing them writing all these essays when it doesn't even concern them or their family

it's a kpop sub-forum. it's perfectly normal to discuss about kpop gossip and news. i will never understand why some people make such a big deal about sharing opinions tbh. as long as everyone is being respectful. not just kpop, but most topics around the world are discussed on different platforms all the time, so..

 

 

edit: anyways for yeaaaarrrs the kpop community have had discussions about the military. this is no difference. it's interesting to think there could be possible alternatives for male idols one day

Edited September 15, 2021 by satoori

[pinkpanda_spirit]

13 minutes ago, satoori said:

it's a kpop sub-forum. it's perfectly normal to discuss about kpop gossip and news. i will never understand why some people make such a big deal about sharing opinions tbh. as long as everyone is being respectful. not just kpop, but most topics around the world are discussed on different platforms all the time, so..

 

 

edit: anyways for yeaaaarrrs the kpop community have had discussions about the military. this is no difference. it's interesting to think there could be possible alternatives for male idols one day

Kpop =/= Korean political issues

[satoori]

3 minutes ago, pinkpanda_spirit said:

Kpop =/= Korean political issues

this specific case is related to korean politics.

more importantly, a topic of discussion does not have to be "political" to be discussed DHFKFFJSH

fam, no one is forcing you to be part of the discussion. you don't have to make a comment if you don't want to. it's ok

Edited September 15, 2021 by satoori
words

[pinkpanda_spirit]

29 minutes ago, satoori said:

this specific case is related to korean politics.

more importantly, a topic of discussion does not have to be "political" to be discussed DHFKFFJSH

fam, no one is forcing you to be part of the discussion. you don't have to make a comment if you don't want to. it's ok

But I still have the right to criticize I wanted to comment on this thread and I did on my own free will lol

[Specialsnowflakes]

Honestly even if BTS actually get full exemption, in my opinion Korean ppl reaction (outside of haters) won't be as bad as some ppl might think. I mean, BTS already get a big privilege by getting a 2 years military postponement, yet no one bat an eye on this, everybody seems to be fine with it (their Korean TV appearance still got high rating, their songs are charting high). Meanwhile for other celebrities, even small stuff like serving in the military as a 'social service worker' (instead of 'active duty') can create an uproar/backlash

[Specialsnowflakes]

1 hour ago, pinkpanda_spirit said:

I will never understand why international fans must give their 2 cents and debate over military exemption. Like, are you a korean man? No. Do you live in Korea? No. Do you have the right to vote / talk about their political issues ? No. So shut the f up 

This is a sensitive and serious issue in SK so let the korean governement do their thing (and koreans say their opinion).

I mean it's funny seeing them writing all these essays when it doesn't even concern them or their family

I'm curious will you have this same energy and attitude (telling non-Korean to stfu) if BTS end up getting full military exemption and the entire Korea are fine with it, yet Kpop Ifans bitching abt it. Or are you going to join these Ifans and say how unfair it is etc lol. Well, no one knows what will happen in the future.

[Guest]

That's an interesting take. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to actually do something like that since BTS has a lot of impact on SK soft power.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if it did not lead to an exemption. 

[pinkpanda_spirit]

56 minutes ago, Specialsnowflakes said:

I'm curious will you have this same energy and attitude (telling non-Korean to stfu) if BTS end up getting full military exemption and the entire Korea are fine with it, yet Kpop Ifans bitching abt it. Or are you going to join these Ifans and say how unfair it is etc lol. Well, no one knows what will happen in the future.

If Koreans are fine with it then who am I to interfere ? lmao y'all funny

[satoori]

5 hours ago, Specialsnowflakes said:

Honestly even if BTS actually get full exemption, in my opinion Korean ppl reaction (outside of haters) won't be as bad as some ppl might think. I mean, BTS already get a big privilege by getting a 2 years military postponement, yet no one bat an eye on this, everybody seems to be fine with it (their Korean TV appearance still got high rating, their songs are charting high). Meanwhile for other celebrities, even small stuff like serving in the military as a 'social service worker' (instead of 'active duty') can create an uproar/backlash

hmmm perhaps so.

I still lowkey think full exemption could cause some backlash...BUT if the Korean government is able to spin it as diplomat hours being similar to service hours, then it could work. Already it's rumored/confirmed BTS is lined up at the end of the year to do some global-diplomatic type events.

5 hours ago, Specialsnowflakes said:

I'm curious will you have this same energy and attitude (telling non-Korean to stfu) if BTS end up getting full military exemption and the entire Korea are fine with it, yet Kpop Ifans bitching abt it. Or are you going to join these Ifans and say how unfair it is etc lol. Well, no one knows what will happen in the future.

Lol yea the reactions from some ifans (hater/trolls) will be hilarious.

4 hours ago, IAmNochu said:

That's an interesting take. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to actually do something like that since BTS has a lot of impact on SK soft power.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if it did not lead to an exemption. 

yea I sort of feel this way too. I do think hybe/government is testing the waters right now with BTS. As of right now, it's helpful that the Korean public overall seem to support the news and in general anytime BTS represents Korea on the world field.

Even getting part of their active duty time decreased would still be novel.

One step at a time. We shall see how things will turn out tho.

[rananicolee]

I don't know. I can see some companies doing very shady things to allow their male idols to do the alternate. We've already seen male idols delay enlistments until the last possible minute. Some companies will take advantage of this and try to pay off the government. 

I think for now BTS is the only exception. It's really hard to say because military enlistment is still a need since SK is still at war with NK. 

It's best just...to wait I guess. 

The only plausible solution is getting their enlistments out of the way before they debut. Gray isn't an idol but he enlisted well before he debuted. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by rananicolee

[Stepkdramafan226]

That's very interesting, would love to see how this is implemented especially since what BTS has achieved. However what will be the criteria for idols to qualify for this alternative service if it were to be implemented? We will see!

[Mehhh]

compared to classical musicians and athletes, I would say Kpop idols and Korean actors contributed to South Korean pop culture and its soft power way much more and yes if those can exempt from the military bc of that, then Kpop Idols should be able to do that