The theory of female idol generation that the opinions are still different…

[satoori]

The theory of female idol generation that the opinions are still different…

1st generation

Baby V.O.X (1997)
S.E.S. (1997)
Fin.K.L (1998)

1.5 generation

Jewelry (2001)

2nd generation

Wonder Girls (2007)
KARA (2007)
Girls’ Generation (2007)

2.5 generation

Sistar (2010)
Girl’s Day (2010)
Apink (2011)

3rd generation

Red Velvet (2014)
TWICE (2015)
BLACKPINK (2016)

(G)I-DLE (2018)
IZ*ONE (2018)
ITZY (2019)

Is this 3.5 generation or 4th generation?

original post: theqoo

1. 4th generation will begin after the BLACKPINK, TWICE, and Red Velvet era ends

2. 3.5 generation

3. Isn’t it 4th generation?

4. In fact, BLACKPINK, TWICE, and Red Velvet are still too popular, so it’s 3.5 generation

5. There is no standard for dividing generations

6. Why are there no f(x) and T-ara?

7. 3.5 because 3rd generation girl groups are still too popular

8. Aespa and STAYC are 4th generation girl groups..? I don’t think there is a group that has opened up to the 4th generation yet…

9. Where are Miss A and 2NE1…?

10. The industry says it is 4th generation cr.

Edited April 11, 2021 by satoori

[satoori]

Basically this Korean OP is only looking at Kpop girl groups and not the entire Kpop industry. (e.g. Kpop overall started around 1992 with Seo Taiji,  but the first Kpop girl group didn't debut till 1997.) Listing down the years the Korean OP included, it seems they're sort of (perhaps unintentionally) doing a concept I follow for determining generations too. Every decade is a new generation. And a decimal (e.g. ".5") is used to describe increments in between.

1st generation 1997, 1999

1.5 generation 2001

2nd generation 2007

2.5 generation 2010, 2011

3rd generation 2014, 2016

2018, 2019 ("OP: Is this 3.5 generation or 4th generation?")

Expect things sort of get trickey once they hit the third gen. Instead of starting in 2017 they list 2014. This is exactly why I personally don't separate boy and girl groups because things falls in place a lot better. By starting at 1992 instead of 1997, it still works for girl groups too...

(1st gen) 1992 - 2001: Baby Vox, SES, Fin.Kl, Jewelry

(2nd gen) 2002 - 2011: Wondergirls, SNSD, Kara, Sister, Girls Day, Apink

(3rd gen) 2012 - 2021: Red Velvet, Twice, Blackpink, Gidle, Izone, Itzy

Also - Increments can still be applied here too. 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 can be used for groups debuting near the later half of the decade. (e.g. 3.5 - Gidle, Itzy, Izone)

Edited April 11, 2021 by satoori
also..

[satoori]

30 minutes ago, choiyujins said:

 

I really want to write an article about this debate at some point because I feel that strongly about it lol

lol send me a link to the article when it's done, i look forward to leaving my comment~^^

suggestion: i think it would be fun if the article was like [that one i shall not name XD] with a panel of OH press members. so we can see multiple opinions.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by satoori
spelling.

[satoori]

9 minutes ago, NothingOriginal said:

This is so stupid, just listen to the music u like? Why do you need generations? I feel like most fans want to set these categories just so they can say "my bias paved the way"

 

2 minutes ago, Jikrytae said:

What is all this generation crap? Are they pop stars or Pokemon? 

 

Korean media and Korean companies are the ones who started the whole generation thing.. For history purposes. It's a lot more organized when there's a timeline.

 

 

[satoori]

1 minute ago, NothingOriginal said:

It might be useful but It doesn't seem organized to me, especially these days with 4th gen and looking up at the 1.5 gen and 3.5 gen. It's just a jumble imo

Yea since around 2018 people have been debating about when the start of 4th gen lol. However the exact same thing started to happen near the end of 2nd gen too. Specially with the increase of more ifans, use to debate about 2010-2012. The Kpop industry is a relatively new music industry, so the debate will probably naturally continue to happen until there's a visible pattern. Or maybe one day in the future it will be phased out. (in this case tho, Koreans will be the ones to determine that not we ifans.)

[satoori]

Just now, Jikrytae said:

But what is there to organize? The whole thing is trivial.

"These groups all debuted during an arbitrarily selected set of years, so let's group them all together in a way that serves no actual purpose." 

I could possibly understand the concept if it were applied exclusively to new & pre-existing groups from a specific company and the practical ways in which they  affect one another, but grouping together unrelated groups based on the completely arbitrary time frames in which they debuted has no practical use.

For media and other official purposes, it's simply a lot easier saying "1st generation blah blah" then listing out groups. When there are shows and documentaries in Korea about Kpop it seems to be an advantage also.

I guess some ifans may find it's trivial, but for others something as minor as this makes things more efficient. 

[satoori]

5 minutes ago, NothingOriginal said:

Lol i wont be debating anything, im probably too old to memorize so many groups. 

But i would love to see a cohesive article if someone makes it, pls send it to me too

LOL, I've been a fan of Kpop for a long time, so I find these conversations entertaining. And years later when there's a general consensus of what years represent the the 4th gen, thinking about these debates will be nostalgic too.

[satoori]

26 minutes ago, deobizone said:

It's harder these days bc its not as long as a "generation". These days it's just more saturated than it was in 1st,2nd gen so 3rd gen feels short. To be honest I hated in like 2018 when ppl started saying 4th gen bc I only saw ifans say it..I think it annoyed me bc I saw it a lot in a way as ppl would say "next gen" or new gen in lieu of calling rookies, rookies..it's just too confusing of distinctions. I told myself when kfans are talking about 4th gen I'll take it so by 2020 I accept it.

 

But .5 gens is pointless distinction. They might be considered debuting before what's considered the next gen but that next group is moreso their 'peers' than the typical of previous gen who debuted 3+ yrs before them or sumn. Like I wouldn't cl those groups 3.5 rather than 4.

I agree, the .5 overall it's pointless tbh. I've mostly seen international communities use the distinction. This is actually one of the first knetz post I've seen use it. Nowadays, kfans and ifans are more connected [sns] compared to the past tho.

The first time I ever saw the distinction being used was by ifans to describe [visibly separate] the 2nd gen groups that debuted after the "golden era/age (2007-2009)" as 2.5 gen.

[satoori]

1 minute ago, abra said:

Pretty sure we've talked about this before but there was nothing new going on in 2012-2013 for girl groups to herald a new generation. I think it's better to base it on shifts in the industry/waves of popular new groups than to base it only on time. It makes things harder to keep track of but I think it's the only way to make the generations actually mean something.

 

In which case we might be at the start of a new generation now.

Yep, we've discussed it before lol. I still personally find it easier to keep things clean and simple. More objective than subjective. In my opinion, it all tends to fall in place eventually..^^

[satoori]

Just now, choiyujins said:

lmao

LOL SJDHFFKDLSS

(publicity is publicity XD)

[satoori]

15 hours ago, melancholic autumn said:

Except 3rd gen started around 2011-2012, probably even earlier in 2010 since Infinite is often categorized as an early 3rd gen group rather than a 2nd gen group, so 3rd gen has been around for 10 years now. 

The legendary trinity nicknamed, ShiBeaIn or Shabi or ShiBeIn is because of knetz/kfans/ifans always lumping those three (Shinee, Beast, Infinite) together as the most stable boy groups of the generation back in the days. Three groups that were not necessarily the top 3 of the 2nd gen, but still popular due to their similar clean image, long stable careers, and more, at the time. It was a popular opinion that these three would last forever. @hynapia Stans of these groups are sort of lowkey nowadays, but back in the days they were a proud bunch.

I mean, a handful of people might still try to blur the lines between transition years, but Infinite was almost never lowered down to that of BAP, BTS, Boys Republic, Topp Dogg, History, and etc back in the days.

 

Spoiler

https://kpopkfans.blogspot.com/2015/02/which-idol-groups-do-you-think-will.html

https://superkpopfans.blogspot.com/2019/03/update-shibeain-love.html

https://onehallyu.com/topic/202211-the-class-of-shi-be-in-shinee-beast-infinite-2015-comeback-title-songs/

https://onehallyu.com/topic/746341-pann-wow-i-guess-i-really-liked-them/

https://onehallyu.com/topic/203416-shibeain-best-comeback/

i've posted above only a few links, but there are so many topics//discussions using the popular nickname. 

.

13 hours ago, Sugar Daddy said:

oh I thought 3rd gen started in 2014

Exo and Bts are 3rd gen. Almost no one in Korea debates that.

 

13 hours ago, felidae said:

Edit : 3rd gen started in exo era, no? 2013/14? When physical albums matter again? The start of "you touch oppa and you die" era? The start of "public fed up with idols" and the reclining numbers of idol shows? 

There's no question about it, Exo's success impacted at least the start of the 3rd gen. I think almost everyone can agree on that. Even non-fans.

2012 (exo debut year) or 2013 (breakthrough year). This is mainly where the difference in opinions come in for some people.

But in most cases the debut year wins. Since in topics about Kpop generations, debut years are always highlighted not the year when each individual group had their breakthrough. That would be super confusing/extra trying to define that year for each group lol ><;;

Edited April 12, 2021 by satoori

[satoori]

1 minute ago, felidae said:

Wait this reply makes me wonder IF brave girly phenomenon change things significant

change things in what way?

[satoori]

1 minute ago, felidae said:

I hit submit before finished sorry lol

LOL xd

9 minutes ago, felidae said:

Wait this reply makes me wonder IF brave girls phenomenon change things significantly it makes a "new generation" would people say 2011, when they debuted, 2017 when they rebranded/the viral song released, or 2021.

.......But I think this example is too extreme. Nvm.

yea it's an extreme example, but there is some food for thought here. basically it becomes overly complex when using breakthrough years.