The recent uprising of bullying allegations towards K-pop idols; a phenomenon resemblant to Weinstein effect?

[SLY]

Quite a long post ahead!

First of all, I would like to clarify that I don't intend to compare bullying to sexual harassment nor say whichever of the one is worse. What I'm talking about is how people coming forward may have inspired other people to do so as well, by the way which is NOT mob mentality 'cuz that's completely different. If this offends anyone (in relation to Me Too/Weinstein Effect), I'm sorry and please tell me and I'll change the title. If there is a more applicable term, please do tell me as well.

Anyways...

With the recent influx of allegations towards idols claiming that some particular idols who are quite popular used to be bullies when they were younger, many speculations are made. Based on my observation, there are some fans who are very quick to guard or defend their idols using the circumstances as proof to debunk whichever allegations. For example, for TOO's Woongi's bullying allegations, some were quick to say that those may be all made up by people who don't like the positive image Woonggi got through his acts of promoting Covid protocol and LGBT awareness. I would like to stress that at this point I don't believe that s/he is guilty/innocent unless sufficient evidence surfaces. As a fan of Lovelyz, Jisoo was entangled with rumors that ultimately ruined her debut and scarred her career (which then turned out false).

International fans are somehow also very quick to defend their idols based on the images they built. XX is such a kind person, XX can't do that! XX won't bully anyone! What I  observed is that they are also very quick to reflect the allegations claiming that they are just false reports to ruin an image.

Now, if you are a member of r/kpop, you may have already seen this thread:

Basically, it's about what may have caused the current uprising of people coming forward with their sentiments against who they claim to be their bullies when they were younger. In a nutshell, these are:

1. To take advantage of Naver's most searched bar before it gets removed.
2. There was a bullying claim involving volleyball players where the allegations turned out to be true and the volleyball players faced consequences.
3. Koreans had always been keen and sensitive with bullying.

More emphasis onto the 2nd matter, it's what made me feel like this could all very much resemble the reasoning behind #MeToo. Since some of the people involved are affiliated with rather big entertainment labels and rarely if pointing out the truth which can defame someone still can incriminate the victim, they may definitely be wary and scared. But then, with the case of the two volleyball players where we can say they suffered the consequences to their actions, this may have sparked something inside the other people keeping all the pain within themselves that there is hope. Notice how the list just gets longer?

However, a big but (bigger than Kim Kardashian's), is that these may all be used just to tarnish someone's reputation by haters. It's a sad world we're living in right now and evil is always there. This may even impede the cause of those who are actually looking for justice. Makes me realize how the animal I despise the most is human.

Now, what should people believe in? I'll be Catherine Obvious and say that I personally believe that we should all wait to see what this unfolds into before making judgments. As a mental health advocate, I believe this situation may cause grave scarring to both sides. If the allegations are true yet the majority won't believe it because the idol is known to have a kind image, then the victim of bullying will only get more hurt, however if the allegations are false yet the public believes it, then the idols will be the ones getting scarred. Although it's already a given, I believe that we should all refrain from making remarks that discredit any of the sides to prevent further damage and wait for concrete or actual evidence. People think that remarks such as a plain "LOL" is harmless but putting that into context, commenting those three letters to something where a person is depicting hardships and pain or an explanation letter by an idol who's claiming to be wronged by the allegations does ridicule and discredit the accounts. What's also destructive is claiming that what's happening right now is something that targets only popular/rising idols done by fans of their competition or other groups. Saying "I fully support bullying victims" but then proceed to defend idols is a passive-aggressive way of saying "that's not true". 

Personally, I'll keep my opinions reserved this time. I'm a fan of some whose rumors popped up (HJ, WG) but at the same time, I was bullied witnessed with my own eyes bullying victims losing life (figuratively and literally) even years after the bullying has been done. As a volunteer in a mental health NGO, I encountered some people who are already in their twenties and thirties who are still carrying the pain of the bullying they experienced back when they were teenagers. I fully understand how some can quickly defend their idols, I would have done so if it were years ago. The dilemma is there, but now I understand that there are two sides of the coin and we should wait for definitive proof before we make judgments. 

"Hasty judgments begets remorse." - German proverbs

I may have written this long post but I'm still somewhat conflicted one one thing or two but it's something I'm already working on within myself, please just go on and don't mind me. Stay safe everyone and go stream Panorama by IZ*ONE.

[satoori]

True, people speaking out inspires and encourage others to do so too. But it's also true it motivates trolls and haters too - which is a form of mob mentality. Same thing happened in the West. Basically everyone should read all sides carefully before automatically jumping to conclusions.  Tho at the end of the day, most of these bullying cases end up being hearsay. It's difficult to tell what's true and what's not. 

 

[SLY]

3 minutes ago, satoori said:

Basically everyone should read all sides carefully before automatically jumping to conclusions. 

It's difficult to tell what's true and what's not. 

I agree. Hence why we should not make hasty judgments which can discredit accounts of explanation or allegation.

With "most allegations being hearsay', I don't have the extensive knowledge about the bullying allegations dating from before but some that I know of are barely hearsay and most are personal experience. I know some by which a settlement has been reached and of course those who are proven false but I don't have the evidence to prove that most are hearsay. Nevertheless, it means that at least some are true and we still should be careful of the remarks we make.

[satoori]

16 minutes ago, SLY said:

I agree. Hence why we should not make hasty judgments which can discredit accounts of explanation or allegation.

With "most allegations being hearsay', I don't have the extensive knowledge about the bullying allegations dating from before but some that I know of are barely hearsay and most are personal experience. I know some by which a settlement has been reached and of course those who are proven false but I don't have the evidence to prove that most are hearsay. Nevertheless, it means that at least some are true and we still should be careful of the remarks we make.

If the person is lying then it's not a personal experience. It's still just a lie.

Hearsay because sometimes there tend to be random friends or classmates jumping in with their opinions too. But I guess it would of been better to say "He said-She said".  Because in most cases there's no evidence to prove any side. So we as outsiders are literally just making a judgment based on our own personal feelings about the case or idol.

 

 

Side note: At least with sexual harassment or other sex crimes, the case can be taken to court and judge professionally. With these bullying cases it's being left  to "netizens" ,  "stan twitter", and etc...

Edited February 22, 2021 by satoori
note

[STORM BLOOM]

This is so sad to read. I was bullied at school too but not as extreme as this. Luckily I know how to fought back and we don't have this kind of environment. This Bullies needs to be erase. 

 

ELECTRIC CHAIR.

[starsocks]

it totally resembles me too and such

but in my opinion, when too many idols get exposed at once, the certainty and credibility is kinda lost, particularly when it comes to stories that are more ambiguous and less evidence based

[neo velvet]

i have to wonder where troubled kids who just got into fights fit into this picture... it would be all too easy to automatically frame them as bullies, without looking at any of the circumstances

 

sometimes kids hate each other and hurt each other without there being any clear cut victim/perpetrator dichotomy. sometimes in these situations both people walk away feeling like the victim of the situation

[sergel]

The strict defamation laws gives some credence to the weight of accusations, since people are taking a risk, but I wonder how many are true, how many are false, and how many are more complex than that. I wonder if these accusations will cause more average folks to expose non-celebrity bullies like MeToo did.

 

I wonder why Naver is removing their search rankings though.

[satoori]

3 hours ago, sergel said:

I wonder why Naver is removing their search rankings though.

 

recent article - 

Spoiler

South Korean search giant Naver Corp. said Thursday it will shut down its online portal's real-time search chart service this month amid a yearslong controversy over whether it could be prone to advertising or be used to rig public opinion.

The portal giant, which draws 30 million users everyday, said in a blog post that it will shut down the service on Feb. 25 as user searches have become more diversified and specific.

The search chart first appeared in 2005 and has served as a major part of Naver's online portal, showing the most popular trending searches by rank.

The service, however, came under fire in recent years amid allegations that it could feature advertisements or political messages.

In 2019, the chart displayed support and opposition messages of then-justice minister nominee Cho Kuk.

While Naver has tried to address such concerns by expanding the search rank list from 10 to 20 and using artificial intelligence technology to personalize searches catered to user interests, it said it would discontinue the service.

The latest move comes after Kakao Corp., which operates smaller local rival Daum, shut down its real-time search service in February last year.

Naver has also faced accusations that it abuses its search algorithms, with the country's antitrust regulator fining the company 26.7 billion won ($23.8 million) last October for manipulating search algorithms in favor of the company's online shopping site. (Yonhap)

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210204001068

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by satoori

[sergel]

8 minutes ago, satoori said:

 

recent article - 

  Hide contents

South Korean search giant Naver Corp. said Thursday it will shut down its online portal's real-time search chart service this month amid a yearslong controversy over whether it could be prone to advertising or be used to rig public opinion.

The portal giant, which draws 30 million users everyday, said in a blog post that it will shut down the service on Feb. 25 as user searches have become more diversified and specific.

The search chart first appeared in 2005 and has served as a major part of Naver's online portal, showing the most popular trending searches by rank.

The service, however, came under fire in recent years amid allegations that it could feature advertisements or political messages.

In 2019, the chart displayed support and opposition messages of then-justice minister nominee Cho Kuk.

While Naver has tried to address such concerns by expanding the search rank list from 10 to 20 and using artificial intelligence technology to personalize searches catered to user interests, it said it would discontinue the service.

The latest move comes after Kakao Corp., which operates smaller local rival Daum, shut down its real-time search service in February last year.

Naver has also faced accusations that it abuses its search algorithms, with the country's antitrust regulator fining the company 26.7 billion won ($23.8 million) last October for manipulating search algorithms in favor of the company's online shopping site. (Yonhap)

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210204001068

 

Ah that explains it. Thanks!

[satoori]

3 minutes ago, sergel said:

Ah that explains it. Thanks!

 

[oden]

Spoiler

I constantly get bully since kinder garden, primary school, high school, university and even at work place...bully culture is everywhere....and the bully is smart, they don't use physical method, they use mentally so there no physical proof to be used as evidence ...what they did is create false story about me....make everybody hates me....they keep gaslighting I do this I do that to each difference individual just to create hatred, im a quiet person...so many people dont know what kind person I am...they fear the unknown...when ever there shit thing happen to them, they start suspecting other as the main source of their misfortune. Since they don't know me much, ill thought linger in their mind thus hatred and suspicious are born, so anything happen they will suspect me and though I'm the one who cause their misfortune and there also some people who just look at someone face, and they just start hating that person. And say those people are very arrogant or snobbish, they don't even spend time to get to know that person and already label that person to be snobbish? So much hatred and negativity in their mind I doubt they can find inner peace, anywhere they go they will find other people fault but not themselves,  for the school era...they just mock your appearance that all...how are you going to find evidence from that? From the school era I can handle it because.... I don't give a shit about appearance...for the university era and work life... I tend not to give an f...since I know I'm not what those people accuse me to be, I know who I am....well some of it...because they mix the fact with some gibberish story...so it makes people hard to reject it since there some fact to it... but still report your bully is good, u finally have the courage, the problem here is to find which allegation that is true, and which are made by the troll and hater? Those people just want to bully the idol they hate..... Korea is very high tech country...can they trace who make this comment, and personally contact them to get evidence for the allegation? My country is not a famous or rich country like Korea...BUT THEY KEEP RECORD AND TRACKING ANYTHING THAT WE DO ON THE INTERNET.....they know everything even the thing u already delete ...even what u search using nord pvn..... of course bully tend to be creative they create a code name to mock the person they bullied, people who know this code will laugh at the joke because they know who this code name referring too...the only solution for this is for the inner circle to speak out and know what they did was wrong and mention who are the other that participate in this bully culture  ... other than that. I don't know how we're going to distinguish the real bully incident with  false accusation, if u want to use picture, there superimpose photoshop, if u want to use video there deepfake...if u want to use mass info given from many people, those people can lie and gang up just to bring down the idol they hate... I still don't know why Korean police don't take bully allegation case....since they have many resources to solve this problem such as go to the multimedia department to trace back all this comment, calling them to give testimony and proof as evidence, even if they don't have proof because they may not record it. The cop can still conduct investigation at the place where all this bully happens  even it happen a long time ago .but I guess the cop is busy handling far bigger case?.  so any of your country take school bully case seriously? i mean when come to physical bullied? Like the victim start bleeding? Because I never see someone who constantly got bullied by being insult every day, go to the police station to file a report ...unless u have a bisness and competitor try to tarnish your image and bisness by false accusation u and make u go viral...those things i see a lot of people make police report other than that i rarely see any, maybe they scared to be call a pussy? ...

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by lilian wiccan

[schue]

Great written piece I've read amidst all these chain of bullying allegations.