[Discussion] Unsuccessful or Mismanaged? (2021)

[YooJeong]

19 hours ago, satoori said:

These groups had their hits and success, you're right. But they also had a downfall/decline. So I'm curious what people felt was the reason. 

 

I agree, a good argument could be made for a combo too.

Tho groups that had a chance but never made it or never got the hype - I consider them unsuccessful more than mismanaged. They were unsuccessful at gaining those things due to luck, timing or something.

 

I think a downfall/decline is normal, even inevitable. In T-Ara's case their decline was due to the bullying scandal, so I definitely wouldn't include them because they were successful until that moment, and the scandal wasn't their fault or poor management either. I think better management would have helped, but who knows. Nobody can predict knetz reaction. It's more about how long you manage to avoid the decline and avoid scandals. Idk if that counts as management either, because some scandals are kind of ridiculous and the company fails to manage them, but some scandals stem from the idols actually doing wrong and they are ruined regardless of how the company responds. 

2NE1 is another example of being ruined by a scandal.  They're successful, they just had an unlucky scandal. They managed to be successful despite horrible management. 

Also it depends on who you view as "responsible" for the group's music. Most groups don't write or produce their own songs, so would music be part of management? For example, I'd say groups like CLC, their music and concept changes so much, which is a management issue. In April's case, their concept hasn't changed but their music just isn't successful with the public - so is that management, or just lack of success, if it's the company choosing the music?

[satoori]

4 hours ago, YooJeong said:

I think a downfall/decline is normal, even inevitable. In T-Ara's case their decline was due to the bullying scandal, so I definitely wouldn't include them because they were successful until that moment, and the scandal wasn't their fault or poor management either. I think better management would have helped, but who knows. Nobody can predict knetz reaction. It's more about how long you manage to avoid the decline and avoid scandals. Idk if that counts as management either, because some scandals are kind of ridiculous and the company fails to manage them, but some scandals stem from the idols actually doing wrong and they are ruined regardless of how the company responds. 

2NE1 is another example of being ruined by a scandal.  They're successful, they just had an unlucky scandal. They managed to be successful despite horrible management. 

Also it depends on who you view as "responsible" for the group's music. Most groups don't write or produce their own songs, so would music be part of management? For example, I'd say groups like CLC, their music and concept changes so much, which is a management issue. In April's case, their concept hasn't changed but their music just isn't successful with the public - so is that management, or just lack of success, if it's the company choosing the music?

Declining is normal, I agree. But in many cases a group's decline is way to fast or early. This can be due to many factors.

Tara scandal I feel was badly managed by their company. Of course, who knows. But I'm going with mismanaged for them, since it fits best, in my opinion.

Yea, we never know how a scandal will be received by knetz, but there are ways companies can try to make things better depending on the case. You're right, the scandal was unlucky for Bom. However similar to Big bang, YG could of attempted to save 2ne1 image. Push them on more variety shows and activities. That's what helped the Big Bang members. Also in general they could of continue to work on building and growing the fandom. Push out more content and etc. That way at least 2ne1 would have been able to tour and profitable. Instead feels like YG gave up early on 2ne1 - which caused them to decline early.

Self-produced or not, music is subjective. So each person has to decide for themselves if the music/concepts are good or not. For example; overall I don't think CLC concepts changes were that significantly different then some other groups. Many groups jump around. Minsus WAY? which was more Elegant and (mismanaged) out of place. CLC career can basically be divided in two. The first part of their career was girly-cute while the second part was girl crush. While yes there was some lack of management from Cube, unsuccessful still fits best for CLC, in my opinion.

Girly-Cute
Pepee, Eighteen , Like, High Heels, No Oh Oh, Chamisma

Girl Crush
Hobgoblin, Where Are You? --> Elegant, Black Dress, No, Me, Devil, Helicopter

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by satoori

[felidae]

9 hours ago, YooJeong said:

Also it depends on who you view as "responsible" for the group's music. Most groups don't write or produce their own songs, so would music be part of management? For example, I'd say groups like CLC, their music and concept changes so much, which is a management issue. In April's case, their concept hasn't changed but their music just isn't successful with the public - so is that management, or just lack of success, if it's the company choosing the music?

Let's talk about how song's success is dependent on how good/catchy they are when it is a norm lol

[deobizone]

I won't say on all cuz I dunno a lot but the ones I followed/was fan of for awhile: 

CLC: I'd definitely say combo of both. They were definitely mismanaged cuz well - most cube groups are. But not that I think they'd Def be successful if cube did it right but they'd have better chances ig.

Beast/highlight: prolly the only group in cube history that wasn't mismanaged at some point - I think?  I mean even if they did it didn't effect their success. They were successful til they left cube and were able to start a new company. I mean in 2019 junhyung left due to the scandal... albeit their last release before that did underperform so she they declined but it wasn't until this last release. I think consider them popular til then.  I think they could come back but thing is junhyung made all their songs prolly. The other members prolly can write songs too (I rmr back in the day Kikwang wrote one my fav btob bsides) but there's just huge gap there.  Also ofc, they for most of last year 3/4 were enlisted so that explains their absence. I'd say if they decline tho is due to gap in their releases like I think their last one like 12 months passed before their next release. I dunno if there was sumn in meantime to hold fans over since I haven't really followed them close in yes. I was basically fan of all cube groups for years but around time they left probs I was just done. I wasn't cube Stan bc I knew the company was shit but it just got..too shit to keep up. But I find it hard to label them unsuccessful bc they were popular to beginning and for like 1-2 yes after leaving cube.  One album with lesser sales I don't think is enough to say they're legit declined yet.  I think we'll just have to see if they can bounce back from losing their main song maker. 

4minute: mismanaged for sure.  If they lost popularity I fully blame it on cube hhhh. I could say more but I dunno what to explain.  I think it's telling 4/5 left and only hyuna...who cube pushed hard-core and left rest in bg... which I'm sure they hated cube to leave.  And ik by mismanaged you mean more by promotion tactics but I think the internal stuff in the company negatively effects these groups as well.  I mean it's criminal 2yoon was one and done. A coumtry-kpop iconic song and their bsides were top notch. And just imo...2yoon Def the most talented members. At least jiyoon is solo now. It's depressing to look back and see gayoon underused. And this isn't hate to hyuna cuz cube pushed her to the front.  It happened but wasn't her fault

9muses; easy to say unsuccessful. But... since their documentary I just can't positively think of star empire. I'd like to blame the company. I mean, you don't get as many lineup changes as 9muses for just being unsuccessful I think.  The company is definitely shit. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by deobizone
I would turn off autocorrect but I can't spell

[hynapia]

On 2/10/2021 at 5:26 AM, satoori said:

CLC
April
Gugudan
Pristin
B.A.P.
Momoland
2ne1
Got7
Miss a
f(x)
Beast/Highlight
T-ara
Berry good
Laboum
Uniq 
Hotshot
DIA
Astro
 

I'll only comment on these because they're the ones that I'm more familiarized with

CLC: unsucessful. People always blame Cube but the reality is that they've been getting 2-3 comebacks a year except last year and none of them hit big. They're decently popular internationally but in Korea they never seem to get attention for some reason.

DIA: same as CLC, just unsuccessful. They've gotten regular comebacks every year with good music and concepts but they never seem to hit big either. Maybe the GP only cares for Chaeyeon.

Berry Good and Laboum: both unsuccessful and mismanaged, in the sense that their companies are small and don't have enough resources and connections to promote them better.

Gugudan/Pristin/BAP/Momoland: horribly mismanaged. All these groups had potential to hit big (BAP kinda did internationally and Momoland in Korea) but their companies just dropped the ball with them and stopped giving them comebacks until most of them disbanded.

2NE1: were doing great in the first 3-4 years but YG kinda gave up on them after their 5th year, so mismanaged.

GOT7: unsuccessful and mismanaged. None of their title tracks managed to become a hit in Korea even if they were pretty well promoted the first few years, and then in the last 2 years they've been mismanaged too with only 1-2 half assed comebacks a year.

Miss A: mismanaged. They've always done well and had a lot of hit songs but the excessive focus on solo activities (especially Suzy) and JYP giving them less and less comebacks ended up killing the group.

f(x): no comments. SM basically unofficially disbanded them in the peak of their careers. I can't believe they haven't had a single comeback or single since 4 walls that was...like 5 years ago?

April/Highlight/Astro: I don't think they're unsuccessful because they have either hit songs (April, Highlight) or good sales and individual popularity (Astro). They could use a bit of more pushing but I don't think they're horribly mismanaged either.

T-ara: didn't they fade away because of the scandal? Before that I don't think they were unsuccessful or mismanaged but again, I don't know that much about them tbh.

Hotshot: just unsuccessful, and it doesn't help they come from a small company too so less resources as well

Uniq: both unsuccessful and mismanaged because the company hasn't bothered to give them comebacks after the first 2-3 years so...

I want to add A.C.E and Dreamcatcher too. Both have unique interesting concepts and great music, and they've managed to gain a good international fandom but sadly they don't get attention in Korea so it's another case of well managed but unsuccessful. Weki Meki would be another example. Fantagio gives them pretty regular comebacks (usually 2-3 releases a year) with good music and different concepts but people just don't care.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by hynapia

[YeoChin Fairies]

I mean, for non-big 3 groups, no matter how much you media play, it's gonna be dependent on the song in the end. A group like CLC let's say, bitter as it sounds, were doomed right after they came back with their first song. Only the debut sounded like Korea's cup of tea and they chose the wrong path afterwards. Concept change made it even worse, they completely stopped charting. They could heal if they replaced a few songs of theirs with a group like Oh My Girl, but with that style of music, no matter how much ifans try to defend them, they weren't going anywhere. 

Then there are groups like Hello Venus, their debut was the most famous one among 2012 ggs. And suddenly, they disappeared for over a year, some mess with their contract happens, they lose members and drastically change concept. Groups like AOA and EXID who debuted the same year surpass them. That is mismanagement definitely.

Groups like LABOUM or April whose songs mostly suit Korea's general public's taste and had decent amount of comebacks (at least in their early years) are sadly probably meant to be unsuccessful. 

Secret doesn't belong to this list. They released a decent amount of hits, they did slow down in their last year, mostly because of mess between the members.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by YeoChin Fairies

[penyair]

On 2/10/2021 at 12:26 PM, satoori said:

1. There are groups with great concepts/songs/talent and companies that work decently. But still for some reason (luck, timing and or whatever) they're simply unsuccessful at making a big breakthrough or surviving the Kpop industry.

2. Then there are groups who are simply mismanaged by their companies. Their companies are terrible at managing, marketing and or making good decisions. Basically their company is mainly to blame.

Unsuccessful or Mismanaged. Which one best describes the reason for the downfall or decline of the groups listed below. 

 

 

CLC
April
Gugudan
Pristin
Topp Dogg
B.A.P.
EXID
Momoland
2ne1
Got7
Kara
Miss a
U-Kiss
f(x)
4minute
Beast/Highlight
Mblaq
Secret
T-ara
Nine Muses
Ze:a
Teen top
B1a4
Boyfriend
Rania (pre-Blackswan)
Stellar
ChoColat
Cross Gene
Fiestar
Hello Venus
GI
History
Wassup
Berry good
Laboum
Uniq 
Hotshot
Romeo
DIA
Astro
KNK
Vromance
MYTEEN

 

Note: Feel free to skip or add groups

the ones not on my list are unsuccessful

mismanaged:
exid

momoland

2ne1

Got7

Kara

Miss a

f(x)

4minute

Beast/Highlight

T-ara

Boyfriend
 

[YeoChin Fairies]

Sooo... how about LABOUM's case now??? They are number #31 on MelOn's 24 Hits currently, definitely not unsuccessful at this rate, but I could see their agency messing up tbh. Mismanaged as hell....

[Chanbaek4life]

I have no idea if After School is on this list , but can I add them here ?? I think they were a bit successful , they also did what was called a "Admissions and Graduation system" . Members would just keep coming and going . And no one wants to start stanning a group , knowing , or finding out , that there faves are just coming and going from the group , you get it ?? 

Edited November 5, 2021 by SHAWOL4LIFEGUYS

[Villanelle]

bap was robbed!