[PANN][enter-talk] THE REASON WHY IDOLS ARE F*CKING FAILURES NOW

[MicrowavedTeaforYourSoul]

 They summarized it well 

The reason why I don't get why all companies are lumped together is this 

Right now, no matter what the country is, what overseas kids preferences are  > What will usually do well domestically

Usually, we need a lot of fans to gather and make it become the general public's pick and they will chew all the digital charts, so that the song will become known from mouth to ear. 

If you look at BTS, before the US response came, they were already a group that was known even to male students. 

 

But if you look at what people are trying to do nowadays

From the start, they're trying to focus on overseas right away --> They start aiming towards international market, so of course, they'll have good response overseas --> but domestically, nobody will care about those people, we even end up questioning whether they were even meant to hit big in the first place

--> If we say "we've never heard of them" the fans will all boil in rage and show us their results from overseas saying stuff like "they're doing well" --> even so if they're not even in the HOT100 charts' top, nobody will f*cking care about them domestically

--> First of all, if they get a good response overseas, they'll be able to earn good money --> vicious cycle start --> but in reality, they're not even considered mainstream overseas either --> So we're ending up making groups that are lukewarm both domestically and overseas

--> The general public nowadays are all wondering "why are there so many idols I don't know of?" "Idols nowadays are just living in their own world" and they lose interest --> Idols recognition drop --> General public doesn't want to listen to them so they fail in digital charts --> They still live in their world believing they're doing well even though we've never seen them in the charts --> interest drop even more

 

post response:

[+577][-13]

original post: here

 

1. [+245, -23]

For example Stray Kids and Ateez

> JYP really ruined their marketing for Stray Kids f*ck... I'm a Stray Kids fan but their Korean fans can be counted on my fingers.. ㅠㅠ  They're so talented and get along with each other, they're not pretentious and they can be the best idols... Seriously their image making and promotions are just not it... I'm so upset

> Other groups who have just as little fans domestically with a bunch of I-roaches are the likes of Treasure and Enhypen, but these kids don't get sworn atㅋㅋ  Since the fans don't brag about their fame overseas~

> Seriously Stray Kids fans are so severe, they're always bringing down other idols especially other female idols. They say stuff like their oppas are more handsome and whenever we tell them that they're flops, they will bring out some random international chart

> Why are people dragging Monsta X here?

> Looks like the ZZZ are getting dragged lately (t/n: The Boyz, Ateez, Stray kids)

> Why are you putting all ZZZ together? The Boyz actually has good results domestically, they're f*cking differentㅋ

> Stray kids are only good physically, I've never seen them once in Melon's real time chartsㅋㅋㅋ

 

2. [+244, -2]

Straight up facts, especially for male idolsㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ They do not a single f*cking hit song, but because they're doing a bit well overseas, and sell well physically, they think they're some A-list idols 

 

3. [+240, -0]

If you want me to tell you what they need to hit big, the biggest issue for most of them is their concept.. 

 

4. [+130, -3]

EXO, BTS, Seventeen, Winner and BTOB are the only ones who really have their distinct color, they're robust domestically and that's why people overseas like them... But the thing that's similar for all of them is that they all debuted before Produceㅋㅋ  After Produce, name me one group who did as well as them? After 2017, none of the groups left an impact

 

5. [+123, -4]

This is all because of Produce, it really ruined the idol industry, right now, we just have those "quick fix" type groups

 

6. [+102, -4]

Nowadays, all the girl groups are trying to go for the Black Pink girl crush concept.... They know that people overseas love the girl crush concept, but do they not know what a real strong girl crush concept look like? All we have are laughable girl crush concepts that just make me want to sigh 

 

7. [+94, -11]

Seriously is NCT's fandom considered a true fandom.. Although it's not a group made for overseas market, they have zero public recognition but they have a relatively big fandom.. 

Source: https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2021/01/enter-talk-reason-why-idols-are-fcking.html

 

Spoiler

Stan ATEEZ and fromis_9 

 

[Mrs. Morale]

Lol

[joyurigged]

Why is the title so violent

[Matthew]

well.... this couldve been titled differently but yea new gen idol groups are barely making noise in SK , even most 3rd gen idol groups arent

[Hizu]

We are still I-roaches, then, damn. No evolution.

[taeyang_is_the_sun]

hmmm so they called us i-roaches

sorry for supporting the talented groups you turned your nose up at, i guess?

[abra]

This whole discussion is dumb

[starsocks]

18 minutes ago, Hizu said:

We are still I-roaches, then, damn. No evolution.

16 minutes ago, chani_is_king said:

hmmm so they called us i-roaches

sorry for supporting the talented groups you turned your nose up at, i guess?

woke i-fans like to pretend terms like that are unique to cherry-picked translations on pc and the like, but they're used all. the. time. on korean sites

the vast, vast majority of domestic fans hate our guts and that's the truth

it really irks me because most of their perceptions come from annoying pre-teen twitter stans

[panqueque]

1 hour ago, choiyujins said:

woke i-fans like to pretend terms like that are unique to cherry-picked translations on pc and the like, but they're used all. the. time. on korean sites

the vast, vast majority of domestic fans hate our guts and that's the truth

it really irks me because most of their perceptions come from annoying pre-teen twitter stans

In any website they hate international fans, but in person they are really nice. I think it has to do more of we put more effort than u (a lot time is false tho) and they give u (international fans) more attention. I mean a lot of people here hate knetz too, different country different perspective. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by panqueque

[king_seungmin]

well.....maybe if they stanned these groups they wouldn't be having these issues

[taeyang_is_the_sun]

50 minutes ago, choiyujins said:

woke i-fans like to pretend terms like that are unique to cherry-picked translations on pc and the like, but they're used all. the. time. on korean sites

the vast, vast majority of domestic fans hate our guts and that's the truth

it really irks me because most of their perceptions come from annoying pre-teen twitter stans

hmm well i guess they wouldn't be happy to know that i dont even consider me and them to be in the same fandom. i dont have any relationship with them

[Drama Drama Drama]

It's jealous post from kfan angry bc kpop now not promote a lot in SK and the main focus is overseas.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Drama Drama Drama

[lighterxx]

2 hours ago, Matthew said:

well.... this couldve been titled differently but yea new gen idol groups are barely making noise in SK , even most 3rd gen idol groups arent

 

like one user said i connect it somehow to produce, even groups they listed as continued to be successful after produce had a mini stagnation period, while they do continue growing now, produce even harmed established acts a bit at their times. 

 

Which is kind of interesting considering W1 members dont really make much noise now minus one or two. 

 

 

[satoori]

o.o

hmmmm....

well, it's true produce franchise did negatively impact the idol industry for non-produce groups...

with it gone maybe the industry will be able to recover again. coincidence or not, we can see groups like nct, sf9, 17 and started to rise even more. 

[himi]

not at them calling us i-roaches 

[sergel]

This was kind of an issue for ages though in KPOP. People would ALWAYS talk about how idols except the very top aren’t relevant in Korea, so they are now more focused on the international market and are successful and probably making more of a profit. 
 

 

[hynapia]

I don't get k-fans. So just because those groups don't have domestic recognition, their overall results don't matter? I know Korea is the main market but if most GP don't give a fuck about idols these days except the few established ones, what's the problem with companies seeking for success in other markets like Japan, China or US? Sales and concerts/tours are as important and actually bring more money than charting well in domestic charts, so why are they so freaking pressed?

Even BTS started with a bigger international fandom than domestic and look at them now.

[hynapia]

6 minutes ago, sergel said:

This was kind of an issue for ages though in KPOP. People would ALWAYS talk about how idols except the very top aren’t relevant in Korea, so they are now more focused on the international market and are successful and probably making more of a profit. 
 

 

Pretty much this. They even call mid-tier groups that chart decently "flops". It seems that for k-fans, if you aren't a top 3-5 group like BTS, EXO, Seventeen, Twice, BP, RV, Mamamoo etc you're a flop, like there's no middle point.

But I still don't get what's the problem with certain groups being more successful international than domestically. It's still success and they're making money. Groups like SKZ and ATEEZ that literally sell millions and sell out tours can't be considered flops by any means even if they have low domestic popularity.

[hynapia]

37 minutes ago, satoori said:

o.o

hmmmm....

well, it's true produce franchise did negatively impact the idol industry for non-produce groups...

with it gone maybe the industry will be able to recover again. coincidence or not, we can see groups like nct, sf9, 17 and started to rise even more. 

But still, even NCT, SF9 and SVT don't have smash hits like BTS, Twice, BP, RV, etc. It's like the GP simply don't care for most idols except the very top ones. But I still don't get how not being the top of the top domestically equals being a "flop". Even during second gen there was a lot of mid-tier groups that weren't as big as SNSD, Big Bang, SuJu, 2NE1, DBSK etc but afaik they weren't called flops. It seems k-fans these days are as obsessed or even more than i-fans with being the very top in everything or otherwise you're a failure.

Edited January 7, 2021 by hynapia

[peacemaker]

Quote

whenever we tell them that they're flops, they will bring out some random international chart

 What happened to JYP BG's after 2PM.

[Mami3chan]

funny I-roaches being defensive here considering the fact that I-roaches every now and then drag kpop groups and call mid tier or even high tier groups flops any time they get a chance let alone most I-roaches don't even financially support their faves they just whine on Twitter & watch youtube or give free votes on shit like MAMA lmfao

sorry but not all I-roaches = ARMY

I am not Korean don't come at me

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mami3chan
.

[pinkpanda_spirit]

lol this is exactly the same debate some people had here on OH some weeks ago. I remember people saying the same thing getting downvoted as f even though it's true. So yeah ateez and stray kids aren't really famous in south korea..

[satoori]

4 minutes ago, hynapia said:

But still, even NCT, SF9 and SVT don't have smash hits like BTS, Twice, BP, RV, etc. It's like the GP simply don't care for most idols except the very top ones. But I still don't get how not being the top of the top domestically equals being a "flop". Even during second gen there was a lot of mid-tier groups that weren't as big as SNSD, Big Bang, SuJu, 2NE1, DBSK etc but afaik they weren't called flops. It seems k-fans these days are as obsessed or even more than i-fans with being the very top in everything or otherwise you're a failure.

I was mainly talking about how Produced franchise in general blocked the amount of new fans for other groups.

I don't think GP has changed much from the past till now, at least for boy groups. In the past, there were not many boy groups with huge hits or huge popularity with the public either. Kfans have always viewed groups who were not poupar domestically negatively. However yes since the 3rd gen there have been less groups. I think the current top groups are dominating the public market right now. Perhaps in time things will change.

For girl groups, companies are simply more focused on catering the fandom rather then the public.

 

[satoori]

By the way, not Koreans trying to claim "old school" BTS now...

Back in the days, BTS were not popular domestically either and were constantly dragged by Koreans. It's exactly because of the lack of domestic support BTS started doing more international tours and fanmeets instead. Known for being a group who started relying on sns heavily to communicate with ifans. It's due to BTS international success and achievements later that they've been able to gain recognition from the general public.

What companies are doing nowadays is exactly what Bighit did with BTS. Tho the main difference - BTS attempted to reach out to all international markets where they had fans and where they could enter. Nowadays many companies are putting Western markets specifically the US above everyone. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by satoori
words

[lighterxx]

31 minutes ago, hynapia said:

But still, even NCT, SF9 and SVT don't have smash hits like BTS, Twice, BP, RV, etc. It's like the GP simply don't care for most idols except the very top ones. But I still don't get how not being the top of the top domestically equals being a "flop". Even during second gen there was a lot of mid-tier groups that weren't as big as SNSD, Big Bang, SuJu, 2NE1, DBSK etc but afaik they weren't called flops. It seems k-fans these days are as obsessed or even more than i-fans with being the very top in everything or otherwise you're a failure.

some groups simply do not need smash hits, svt might not have a smash hit but their streams are quite good for a bg 

people just literally demand perfect all kill, when you dont get one they call groups flop like-

we need to understand we wont get all kills like old times. Melon chart reform makes it so hard for bgs, even if they have public presence. we wont be like old kpop now, its needless to expect hit song, at most its more logical to expect a semi hit.