[NAVER] There would be no BTS without Lee Soo Man

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Angel_Nessa said:

In 2012, the 1^st KCON USA happened. Popular K-artists (4Minute, B.A.P, Exo-M, Nu'est, VIXX, and G.NA) attended the event that attracted about 20,000 people. The following year, in the 2nd KCON’s lineup there were Exo (K & M), 2AM, Teen Top, f(x), G-Dragon, Crayon Pop, Dynamic Duo. Thanks to all these popular artists, KCON became a super popular event.

In 2014, KCON received a huge media covered: NBC news, Fusion TV, local news, Mnet America (which had many episodes showing footage of the stars' arrival at the airport in Los Angeles, backstage activities, and the weekend's panels, fan meetings, food stands). For 2014 lineup more popular K-artists were invited  B1A4, CNBLUE, G-Dragon, Girls' Generation, IU, Jung Joon-young, Spica, Teen Top, and VIXX. Among them, there was a newbie group called BTS that was invited for 1^st time. KCON 2014 had an attendance of 42,000 people.

This is only one example how the 1^st and 2nd generation paved the way for BTS.

Just as a comparative, in July 2014, BTS had their 1st USA concert where 200 people attended, the following month (August 2014) during KCON about 20,000 people watched BTS live performance. A lot of people watching = fandom growing. 

uh yeah, about that first concert:

"The sudden news of a free BTS concert came as a unexpected surprise for A.R.M.Y., who had less than two days to hustle in order to attend this (most likely) once in a lifetime, intimate performance by the boys. The catch to the event? Only the first 200 fans to arrive would get in, even if the venue had a 400 people capacity.

Despite the venue’s strict rule of prohibiting people from lining up hours or even days before a given event, fans bypassed the restriction and camped out as early as 8 p.m. the prior day."

http://kultscene.com/review-bts-show-prove-in-los-angeles/


the kcon? bts had the loudest cheers and from hearing the fanchants you can tell they were popular already and didn't need the Kcon to introduce themselves. i've heard so many accounts from those who were there saying that most of the ppl were there for bts.

[A Hamster Named Loneliness]

3 hours ago, micropachycephalosaurus said:

uh yeah, about that first concert:

"The sudden news of a free BTS concert came as a unexpected surprise for A.R.M.Y., who had less than two days to hustle in order to attend this (most likely) once in a lifetime, intimate performance by the boys. The catch to the event? Only the first 200 fans to arrive would get in, even if the venue had a 400 people capacity.

Despite the venue’s strict rule of prohibiting people from lining up hours or even days before a given event, fans bypassed the restriction and camped out as early as 8 p.m. the prior day."

http://kultscene.com/review-bts-show-prove-in-los-angeles/


the kcon? bts had the loudest cheers and from hearing the fanchants you can tell they were popular already and didn't need the Kcon to introduce themselves. i've heard so many accounts from those who were there saying that most of the ppl were there for bts.

I was actually there for KCON 2014, attended both nights (and I only went because of IU--I'm a huge fan of her and it was her first ever American performance, and also went the 2nd night because SNSD and CNBlue were performing) and while there were a lot of people there for BTS, there were also a lot of people there for VIXX, SNSD, and GD as well (I still remember how LOUD the venue got right before GD appeared on stage, it was insane, I thought I was going to go deaf--like there's a reason why GD is/was referred to as the "king of kpop").

And I was in the FB group for KCON attendees (had already secured my tickets) and read about how people were camping out the night before (which is dumb because that particular area where KCON 2014 was held is not safe at all, it's considered the dangerous part of LA), but I didn't know the majority of them were BTS fans, I thought they were just camping out early to try to get Meet and Greet tickets (this was way back before Diamond/Platinum/whatever tickets were available that guaranteed a Meet and Greet). 

But BTS only performed one night--if BTS fans were only there for BTS then they wouldn't have come on Day 1 (BTS performed Day 2) so that's not really an accurate representation that "most fans were only there for BTS". 

Edited December 23, 2020 by A Hamster Named Loneliness

[satoori]

This thread is hilarious.

Many non-fans are showing how ignorant they are about BTS history and journey.

1. BTS always been popular internationally. Since debut. They were known in the kpop community for this first. They started touring essentially due to this and because Korea didn't care for them. So instead BTS decided to meet their fans who do care. Their tours have always been successful. CJ and Bighit use to have partnership due to BTS tours being so successful. 

2. BTS basically owned Kcon and Mnet back in the days. Before Produce franchise and Wanna One, it was a inside joke that BTS were the "sons of Mnet".

3. As far as their Western expansion is concern, BTS and Bighit didn't even try in the beginning. Although yes they reached out to ifans by touring, Bighit and BTS still wanted to impress Korea. BTS desperately wanted their first music show win, invitations to variety shows and so much more.

4. Gradually Bts continue to rise and break records. 2015 is when they first landed on major Billboard chart, but before that they did very well on smaller Billboard charts too compared to other Kpop acts.

5. I've said it before, BTS impact in the US is similar to Boa/TVXQ in the Japan. Bighit/U.S. PR team is also big part of helping other Kpop idols journey easier by setting up different distribution channels and more in the West. Hallyu Wave could only carry idols so far. But it's due to BTS that more barriers were broken and more doors were open. Even rookies, get interviews with Western outlets nowadays. 

6. People generalizing Armys is odd. Seems people forget BTS themselves are veterans and not young. There are many Armys who are not teens. Many are similar in age with the members. Ranging from early 20s to almost hitting 30. Then they're fans who are even older and some with kids of their own. Among all these fans are those who been stanning Kpop for years since 2nd gen and even some 1st gen. It's funny, how some non-fans love to resort to labeling every Army as teens and/or young when they don't agree with y'all claims about 2nd gens idols. Also it's funny how some assume it's only Armys who disagree. Seems like nowadays the only Kpop fans who don't recognize BTS impact is some 2nd gen stans who can't let go of the past. Most new gen stans tend to start of already knowing BTS legacy and power. Many of their favs look up to them too.

 

[satoori]

Also - It's funny how Sunmi, Twice, Rain, Seo Taiji (the godfather of kpop), Kard, Ailee, Shinhwa, Psy, and so many others even the President of Korea himself have all given credit to BTS impact and recognize their power...yet we got some basic nobodies in this thread bending over backwards for messy a** Lee Soo Man. XD

[sakurahanabira]

33 minutes ago, satoori said:

Also - It's funny how Sunmi, Twice, Rain, Seo Taiji (the godfather of kpop), Kard, Ailee, Shinhwa, Psy, and so many others even the President of Korea himself have all given credit to BTS impact and recognize their power...yet we got some basic nobodies in this thread bending over backwards for messy a** Lee Soo Man. XD

No one here is denying BTS's achievements. But it's also ignorant to ignore basic Kpop history because technically speaking, none of the Kpop groups would exist today if it weren't for Seo Taiji. And then BTS wouldn't have had existed if not for Bang Shihyuk leaving JYP Entertainment. The majority of BTS fans when they debuted were also Kpop fans of already existing groups because non-Kpop fans back then didn't care about a bunch of dancing Korean men. Heck, BTS have even said themselves that they were influenced by the likes of Big Bang so I don't get why Armys can't recognize or acknowledge the veterans that came before BTS, when every other fandoms can at least acknowledge what artists like BoA have done for Kpop. 

And if the majority of Armys are acting like immature 12 year olds on Twitter and Youtube, it shouldn't be a surprise when other fans classify them as such. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by melancholic autumn

[Angel_Nessa]

2 hours ago, chaiyya said:

1- And how did any of that contribute to BTS becoming mainstream in the US? KCON is for a very niche audience.

Yeah, they gained some fans among people who were already Kpop fans. Where did the people who had zero connection to Kpop come from? How did KCON help them get invited to perform at award shows? How did KCON help them book late-night televison? How did KCON help them get the paltry radio play they've managed to get?

 

 

b4 replying, I want to make clear that I'm not a hater. I followed Big Hit's activities, so I knew about BTS since their debut. 

1- I said the seniors paved the way for BTS, but I know BTS needed to work hard for their success. 

2- I believe BTS became popular cause, differently from other groups, they decided to talk about youth's problems in their songs, so a lot of people was attracted to them. Honestly I liked more their debut songs, when they were just rebels. And how did people know about BTS?

3- Fans may be sad/angry that I'll say it, but, coincidence or not, it's a fact that BTS started reaching the mainstream at the same time that we saw news like this on Korea and International media:

May 2015 Netizens accuse BTS of ‘sajaegi’ after outselling BIGBANG in physical albums https://www.koreaboo.com/article/netizens-accuse-bts-of-sajaegi-after-outselling-bigbang-in-physical-albums/

May 2016 [PANN] Overlapping BTS outfits with Big Bang http://netizenbuzz.blogspot.com/2016/05/pann-overlapping-bts-outfits-with-big.html

June 2016 Netizen next tries to claim that BTS copied Big Bang https://aminoapps.com/c/k-pop/page/blog/netizen-next-tries-to-claim-that-bts-copied-big-bang/02Ik_uYkbJv4arxp0kZNNR6knBXLqV

Oct 2016 Netizens get in a heated debate after discovering Big Bang tags in BTS's 'Blood, Sweat & Tears' MV https://www.allkpop.com/article/2016/10/netizens-get-in-a-heated-debate-after-discovering-big-bang-tags-in-btss-blood-sweat-tears-mv

2017 Netizens think BTS copied BIGBANG T.O.P's performancehttps://www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2017/02/23/netizens-think-bts-copied-bigbang-tops-performance

 

There were plenty of times that Big Bang's name was mentioned on a BTS' related article. Everything that has a "Big Bang" tag will catch KPOP fans eyes cause they are a super popular group with popular solos (this another way that a senior helped BTS to get some attention).

Big Bang and BTS had similar styles/concepts for songs, and also shared the same story "a group from a small company that have gone through hell, but in the end helped the company to reach the top through hard work". For a younger generation, it was easier following younger idols like BTS, especially when they talked about young/teen issues. 

Non KPOP fans joined the fandom through their friends, it happens in all generation I convinced a lot of friends to like KPOP. SNS has helped a lot 3rd gen groups. I met a lot of new KPOP groups through Twitter trending topics, the last one was aespa. I watched their mv, I liked the concept, I'm feeling like joining the fandom, BTS also had fans who joined the fandom the same way.     

 

 

 

[namidaone]

ooo so apparently BTS did covers of HOT and Shinhwa when they were still nugus 

 

So maybe LSM does have some influence but to say that "there won't be a BTS without LSM" is still a stretch. 
In fact BTS might have been acknowledged as a top group faster if it wasn't for insecure EXO-Ls trying to downplay their success. 
== 
Kcon 2014... Teen Top was so popular back then, their cheers were so loud you could even hear the fanchants for Rocking 

So popular that they were the only group aside from Girls Generation and Big Bang GD to be used by Mnet to hype their Kcon 2014 experience 

 

Teen Top was also the first group to have a world tour due to pure crowdfunding. [x]
So popular that butthurt Hottests Shawols and Exo-ls kept accusing them of sajaegi. 
Their popularity dropped a bit due to Niel's gf controversy (100k to 80k sales) but they really dropped from 80k to 20k when LJoe left bc Top Media kept cockblocking his solo activities. 

[satoori]

22 minutes ago, melancholic autumn said:

No one here is denying BTS's achievements. But it's also ignorant to ignore basic Kpop history because technically speaking, none of the Kpop groups would exist today if it weren't for Seo Taiji. And then BTS wouldn't have had existed if not for Bang Shihyuk leaving JYP Entertainment. The majority of BTS fans when they debuted were also Kpop fans of already existing groups because non-Kpop fans back then didn't care about a bunch of dancing Korean men. Heck, BTS have even said themselves that they were influenced by the likes of Big Bang so I don't get why Armys can't recognize or acknowledge the veterans that came before BTS, when every other fandoms can at least acknowledge what artists like BoA have done for Kpop. 

And if the majority of Armys are acting like immature 12 year olds on Twitter and Youtube, it shouldn't be a surprise when other fans classify them as such. 

I didn't ignore Kpop history. And I didn't see anyone doing so in the beginning either. People not agreeing that those ahead of BTS "paved the way" in the US does not mean Armys do not respect or recognize other groups. Some y'all seriously can't accept the fact BTS actually "paved the way" in the US. Even some Kpop artists don't try to take the credit. It's flat out ignorant.

In general, It's a topic about a greedy businessman who known for being an attention whore. Who is obviously butt-hurt. Of course, people are going to drag his a** and call him out. Yet the last few days there has been a topic about this, some of y'all just got to come into the threads with the "Bts is great but this" and "but thats"...It's like some y'all can't sleep peacefully at night without mentioning 2nd gen idols and/or those before BTS.

 

 

[Angel_Nessa]

2 hours ago, micropachycephalosaurus said:

uh yeah, about that first concert:

"The sudden news of a free BTS concert came as a unexpected surprise for A.R.M.Y., who had less than two days to hustle in order to attend this (most likely) once in a lifetime, intimate performance by the boys. The catch to the event? Only the first 200 fans to arrive would get in, even if the venue had a 400 people capacity.

Despite the venue’s strict rule of prohibiting people from lining up hours or even days before a given event, fans bypassed the restriction and camped out as early as 8 p.m. the prior day."

http://kultscene.com/review-bts-show-prove-in-los-angeles/


the kcon? bts had the loudest cheers and from hearing the fanchants you can tell they were popular already and didn't need the Kcon to introduce themselves. i've heard so many accounts from those who were there saying that most of the ppl were there for bts.

 

2 hours ago, micropachycephalosaurus said:

uh yeah, about that first concert:

"The sudden news of a free BTS concert came as a unexpected surprise for A.R.M.Y., who had less than two days to hustle in order to attend this (most likely) once in a lifetime, intimate performance by the boys. The catch to the event? Only the first 200 fans to arrive would get in, even if the venue had a 400 people capacity.

Despite the venue’s strict rule of prohibiting people from lining up hours or even days before a given event, fans bypassed the restriction and camped out as early as 8 p.m. the prior day."

http://kultscene.com/review-bts-show-prove-in-los-angeles/


the kcon? bts had the loudest cheers and from hearing the fanchants you can tell they were popular already and didn't need the Kcon to introduce themselves. i've heard so many accounts from those who were there saying that most of the ppl were there for bts.

I know you're a fan, I also love to hyer my favorites, but let's be honest

BTS was scheduled to perform the same day as CNBLUE and Girls' Generation, and do you want me to believe that most people were there to see a rookie group like BTS? lol

back in 2012, GG was invited to appear in 2 American talks due to their popularity in America:  "Late Show With David Letterman" on CBS and "Live! With Kelly" on ABC.

[Angel_Nessa]

25 minutes ago, namidaone said:

ooo so apparently BTS did covers of HOT and Shinhwa when they were still nugus 

 

So maybe LSM does have some influence but to say that "there won't be a BTS without LSM" is still a stretch. 
In fact BTS might have been acknowledged as a top group faster if it wasn't for insecure EXO-Ls trying to downplay their success. 
== 
Kcon 2014... Teen Top was so popular back then, their cheers were so loud you could even hear the fanchants for Rocking 

So popular that they were the only group aside from Girls Generation and Big Bang GD to be used by Mnet to hype their Kcon 2014 experience 

 

Teen Top was also the first group to have a world tour due to pure crowdfunding. [x]
So popular that butthurt Hottests Shawols and Exo-ls kept accusing them of sajaegi. 
Their popularity dropped a bit due to Niel's gf controversy (100k to 80k sales) but they really dropped from 80k to 20k when LJoe left bc Top Media kept cockblocking his solo activities. 

Teen Top's popularity was used to downplay 2PM's popularity. It made hottests angry, but I'll not talk much about it, since this is out of the subject discussed in this thread.

I haven't read the full article, but I can't imagine how LSM would have had an impact on BTS, cause LSM's group concepts are very different from BTS's concepts. Knetizens have compared a lot BTS and Big Bang, cause they truly had more similar styles/concepts.

I think they're talking about the fact that SMent led the hallyu wave with his groups, and it's true that the hallyu wave was what introduced KPOP to the world. Nowdays people from all over the world know about the debut of the any K-group, even the ones from the smallest K-company.  

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Angel_Nessa

[satoori]

More about BTS history for non-fans:

It's usually Kcon 2014 and MAMA 2014 that sited and mentioned as the two major moments where ie became clear that BTS was a force to be reckoned with internationally in relations to touring power.

Also those mentioning Teen Top. If we compare their tours around 2014-2015. BTS were bigger. By the end of this first world tour it was clear BTS was way bigger than Teen Top - fandom wise/touring power.

OT: I was actually a huge fan of Teen Top back in days, they were suppose to come to Texas, but couldn't get enough people to buy their tickets and had to cancel TT 

Edited December 23, 2020 by satoori

[satoori]

So many non-fans unintentionally discredit BTS sometimes because they simply don't know enough about their past. It's unfortunate. It's like some of y'all think BTS blew up when they started doing more Western activities in the 2017. Which is not the case at all. BTS fandom was rapidly growing since the beginning, however it wasn't talked about or noticed by Korea/Knetz/Kmedia, so I guess that's why some non-fans of the international community wasn't aware either.

This event in Thailand that BTS held as rookies was probably one of the first time BTS and Bighit realized there's a whole world outside of Korea waiting for them lol. Forever thankful to Thai Armys for showing them so much love

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by satoori
words.

[A Hamster Named Loneliness]

22 minutes ago, satoori said:

So many non-fans unintentionally discredit BTS sometimes because they simply don't know enough about their past. It's unfortunate. It's like some of y'all think BTS blew up when they started doing more Western activities in the 2017. Which is not the case at all. BTS fandom was rapidly growing since the beginning, however it wasn't talked about or noticed by Korea/Knetz/Kmedia, so I guess that's why some non-fans of the international community wasn't aware either.

This event in Thailand that BTS held as rookies was probably one of the first time BTS and Bighit realized there's a whole world outside of Korea waiting for them lol. Forever thankful to Thai Armys for showing them so much love

 

uh I already knew that BTS was starting to blow up even back in 2014 when they came out with Boy in Luv (prob the only BTS song I ever liked) and Danger. In fact as mentioned in another post, I was LITERALLY there at KCON 2014 when they performed (but I wasn't there for them, I was there for other artists). And I attended UC Davis, where the kpop cover group SONE1 originated from, and one of the dance practice workshops they held for the general kpop club that SONE1 is affiliated with and also as part of a setlist to perform at the school's dance competition (Dance Dance Revolution) was BTS' debut intro/outro. 

[namidaone]

16 minutes ago, satoori said:

More about BTS history for non-fans:

It's usually Kcon 2014 and MAMA 2014 that sited and mentioned as the two major moments where ie became clear that BTS was a force to be reckoned with internationally in relations to touring power.

Also those mentioning Teen Top. If we compare their tours around 2014-2015. BTS were bigger. By the end of this first world tour it was clear BTS was way bigger than Teen Top - fandom wise/touring power.

OT: I was actually a huge fan of Teen Top back in days, they were suppose to come to Texas, but couldn't get enough people to buy their tickets and had to cancel TT 

I don't dispute that BTS world tour was bigger but that doesn't negate the fact that Teen Top was able to get not just one but 4 NA dates in NY, LA, San Jose, and Toronto 
even if the Dallas date did not push through [x] , 
considering that it was the 1st Kpop purely crowdfunded tour .

As for the cancelled Teen Top US concerts in in 2016 [x] That happened after Niel got caught multiple times with his gf and Changjo got caught regifting his fans' gifts to Glam Jiyeon. So a lot of their fansites started to be on hiatus. [x] [x] 

Other than that, I acknowledge that BTS first world tour is bigger than Teen Top's world tour despite Teen Top being the first.  

Goes to show that Kcon 2014 isn't really a big factor of BTS success
bc if it were then other Kpop groups who were also popular in Kcon 2014 back then should have grown in fandom and popularity in the same rate as BTS
but stagnated or lost their popularity instead like what happened to Teen Top. 

[pinkpanda_spirit]

11 hours ago, chaiyya said:

Go poll a random pool of Americans with no ties to Korean media and see if they've ever heard of any of these groups that many say helped BTS to be where they are. I was the GP that would've heard about them if they were popular. Because SNSD was on David Letterman, did that make it easier for them to book Ellen and Jimmy Kimmel in 2017? No. Did Gangnam Style being a meme song make it easier for BTS to get their songs on the radio? Absolutely not.

These groups tried to make it big in the US and failed. Nothing they've done in the US has made anything easier for BTS. And that's just facts.

There's nothing revisionist that ARMY is trying to promote here. We're making the case that NOTHING anyone before them has done has made it any easier for them to be in the place in the US they are right now.

 

 

 

Okay and let’s also ask this same people if they know BTS and if they can say one title song from them.

Armys acting like the GP in the US are armys too... get off your high horses chaiya

Edited December 23, 2020 by pinkpanda_spirit

[satoori]

3 hours ago, A Hamster Named Loneliness said:

uh I already knew that BTS was starting to blow up even back in 2014 when they came out with Boy in Luv (prob the only BTS song I ever liked) and Danger. In fact as mentioned in another post, I was LITERALLY there at KCON 2014 when they performed (but I wasn't there for them, I was there for other artists). And I attended UC Davis, where the kpop cover group SONE1 originated from, and one of the dance practice workshops they held for the general kpop club that SONE1 is affiliated with and also as part of a setlist to perform at the school's dance competition (Dance Dance Revolution) was BTS' debut intro/outro. 

(TMI: Danger is one of my least favorite title tracks oh my my my.. XD)

I agree, everyone were not there for BTS. They were still basically rookies. However there were still many fans in the crowd. And by the end of Kcon BTS left with even more fans. As I said, Kcon 2014 and Mama 2014 use to be some of the performances new Armys joining the fandom back in the days would cite as one the moments that made them stan. Every group have those early monumental moments that stand out throughout their careers.

By the way, the comment wasn't direct fully at you which is why i didn't quote you. It was more of a general statement for this thread. To the lurkers too. Plus, someone said bts tours in 2014 were not popular. 

 

Spoiler

Didn't feel like backtracking at the time but found one of the comments

"BTS tried as hard as any group. They started going on tour since 2014 internationally with little success but they kept trying. I think if I'm not wrong the whole BTS PR was they started from the bottom?"... /fail/ Not only is the first part wrong. But started from the bottom has more to do being from a struggling small company lacking opportunities/resources and their lack of recognition and respect in Korea.

Welp, just another reminder that we all interpret things differently...

 

[satoori]

 

2 hours ago, namidaone said:

I don't dispute that BTS world tour was bigger but that doesn't negate the fact that Teen Top was able to get not just one but 4 NA dates in NY, LA, San Jose, and Toronto 
even if the Dallas date did not push through [x] , 
considering that it was the 1st Kpop purely crowdfunded tour .

As for the cancelled Teen Top US concerts in in 2016 [x] That happened after Niel got caught multiple times with his gf and Changjo got caught regifting his fans' gifts to Glam Jiyeon. So a lot of their fansites started to be on hiatus. [x] [x] 

Other than that, I acknowledge that BTS first world tour is bigger than Teen Top's world tour despite Teen Top being the first.  

Goes to show that Kcon 2014 isn't really a big factor of BTS success
bc if it were then other Kpop groups who were also popular in Kcon 2014 back then should have grown in fandom and popularity in the same rate as BTS
but stagnated or lost their popularity instead like what happened to Teen Top. 

I'm not negating it. BTS also had 4 US dates (New York, Dallas, Chicago, and LA) Plus they added a Highlight tour (poorly managed by the organizers) to specifically go back to visit more NA fans (San Francisco, Houston, Atlanta, and Toronto). All I'm saying is Teen Top fandom wasn't as big internationally as some users tried to claim. I remember being a Teen Top stan (TMI: their LA concert was my first Kpop concert actually, oh the memories TT) Teen Top was one of those groups that were very well known among ifans. Many casual fans. Everyone bopped to some of their songs and probably had a few of them on their "kpop playlist" . However Teen Top actual fandom wasn't super big. Loyal and dedicated but not large. 

I was sticking to 2014-2105 for a reason. 1. Both of them had their first world tour around the same time. 2. To show that Bts had a huge following already which would support some of the loud cheering at Kcon 3. Any tour afterwards is irrelevant because BTS had already surpassed Teen Top tourwise, saleswise and fandom-wise. 4. Plus, 2015 was the beginning of Teen Top decline ((((.

By the way, the fact Teen Top had to crowdfund is telling in itself. BTS on the other hand had many sponsors and supporters. Each country they went had different ones. Companies who wanted their brands plastered all over the different individual world tour posters too. Also as mentioned Mnet (MLive) and CJ E&M partnered with Bighit to help produce their concerts. All of this wouldn't have been possible if people didn't see all the potential [profit] BTS was showing globally in relation to touring.

Every group is different. Not everyone is going to have the same experiences. For BTS, Kcon 2014 was just one of the many factors that benefited them. Their performances helped them gain even more fans. As I said, Kcon 2014 and MAMA 2014 were some of the first major moments for BTS - which also started the whole widespread opinion that Bts were powerful performers. Till this day Bts is still known for their showmanship and performances.

Anyways, all of this got me thinking about my Teen Top days TT

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by satoori
words.

[Guest]

I don't understand why some people (all fans included) are so pressed about this "paved the way" and "legacy" topic. It doesn't really matter in the end. Its not what makes people listen to music.

You can't expect someone who like an artist or group to know the whole history of its music genre, or even care about it. Music is not that deep for a lot of people. We listen to music we think sounds good and stan artists we like. That's all. Lots of people honestly couldn't care less about other artists or groups and their history/music impact if they don't listen to their music or don't stan them. And there is nothing wrong with that because music taste and interest are totally subjective.

 

For this specific case with LSM. I think we can all agree that it is clearly a bait and that this man is just being petty and delusional. And seeing this thread, the bait has been quite successful...

[satoori]

2 minutes ago, IAmNochu said:

For this specific case with LSM. I think we can all agree that it is clearly a bait and that this man is just being petty and delusional. And seeing this thread, the bait has been quite successful...

good point 

[chaiyya]

7 hours ago, Angel_Nessa said:

b4 replying, I want to make clear that I'm not a hater. I followed Big Hit's activities, so I knew about BTS since their debut. 

1- I said the seniors paved the way for BTS, but I know BTS needed to work hard for their success. 

2- I believe BTS became popular cause, differently from other groups, they decided to talk about youth's problems in their songs, so a lot of people was attracted to them. Honestly I liked more their debut songs, when they were just rebels. And how did people know about BTS?

3- Fans may be sad/angry that I'll say it, but, coincidence or not, it's a fact that BTS started reaching the mainstream at the same time that we saw news like this on Korea and International media:

May 2015 Netizens accuse BTS of ‘sajaegi’ after outselling BIGBANG in physical albums https://www.koreaboo.com/article/netizens-accuse-bts-of-sajaegi-after-outselling-bigbang-in-physical-albums/

May 2016 [PANN] Overlapping BTS outfits with Big Bang http://netizenbuzz.blogspot.com/2016/05/pann-overlapping-bts-outfits-with-big.html

June 2016 Netizen next tries to claim that BTS copied Big Bang https://aminoapps.com/c/k-pop/page/blog/netizen-next-tries-to-claim-that-bts-copied-big-bang/02Ik_uYkbJv4arxp0kZNNR6knBXLqV

Oct 2016 Netizens get in a heated debate after discovering Big Bang tags in BTS's 'Blood, Sweat & Tears' MV https://www.allkpop.com/article/2016/10/netizens-get-in-a-heated-debate-after-discovering-big-bang-tags-in-btss-blood-sweat-tears-mv

2017 Netizens think BTS copied BIGBANG T.O.P's performancehttps://www.sbs.com.au/popasia/blog/2017/02/23/netizens-think-bts-copied-bigbang-tops-performance

 

There were plenty of times that Big Bang's name was mentioned on a BTS' related article. Everything that has a "Big Bang" tag will catch KPOP fans eyes cause they are a super popular group with popular solos (this another way that a senior helped BTS to get some attention).

Big Bang and BTS had similar styles/concepts for songs, and also shared the same story "a group from a small company that have gone through h***, but in the end helped the company to reach the top through hard work". For a younger generation, it was easier following younger idols like BTS, especially when they talked about young/teen issues. 

Non KPOP fans joined the fandom through their friends, it happens in all generation I convinced a lot of friends to like KPOP. SNS has helped a lot 3rd gen groups. I met a lot of new KPOP groups through Twitter trending topics, the last one was aespa. I watched their mv, I liked the concept, I'm feeling like joining the fandom, BTS also had fans who joined the fandom the same way.     

 

 

 

This isn't a discussion of how BTS got popular. This is a discussion of how BTS achieved mainstream status in the US where no one else has come close.

Okay, we've already discussed the fact that anyone who set foot in America to become popular failed. If they expanded their audience in America, it was so minuscule as to be meaningless. So, XXXX brought their minuscule, niche audience and somehow that turned thousands of people into fans who then became fan-making machines in the US?

There was absolutely crossover. American Kpop fans certainly introduced their non-Kpop friends to BTS and those became fans. But, really, to the degree we're seeing today? How come that didn't work for other groups?

So, we're going to credit XXXX simply because they made music before someone else? Where exactly does that end?

Because Tool is one of my favorite bands, I need to credit the rock bands that I don't like and don't listen to simply because they made rock music before Tool?

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by chaiyya

[chaiyya]

3 hours ago, pinkpanda_spirit said:

Okay and let’s also ask this same people if they know BTS and if they can say one title song from them.

Armys acting like the GP in the US are armys too... get off your high horses chaiya

No, the GP aren't ARMYs. But the GP certainly know who they are. Just like back in the day I'd heard of Taylor Swift, Jonas Brothers, One Direction, Justin Bieber, but couldn't name one song.

Do you live in the US? That's the only way I'll entertain this discussion.

[pinkpanda_spirit]

2 hours ago, chaiyya said:

No, the GP aren't ARMYs. But the GP certainly know who they are. Just like back in the day I'd heard of Taylor Swift, Jonas Brothers, One Direction, Justin Bieber, but couldn't name one song.

Do you live in the US? That's the only way I'll entertain this discussion.

I don't, and I don't think having this discussion with a biased american army is a good idea either.

[chaiyya]

2 minutes ago, pinkpanda_spirit said:

I don't, and I don't think having this discussion with a biased american army is a good idea either.

If you don't live in the US then you don't get to tell people who do what the average American knows about.

[darkchocohoney]

when yknocker makes sense even more than lots of you here. that's embarassingggggg

to sum this thread up:

4. [+268, -7] Such a long-winded way of saying bullsh*t

[chamber]

Aren't Armies the ones so cought up on the whole "Paved The way" concept I see them trend it one twitter a lot. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by chamber