SM commonly gets flack for outsourcing their songs, but at the end of the day...

[sunnykyute]

Disclaimer: I am in NO way an SM stan. I'm simply a good music fanatic, and I don't always like what comes out of SM production.

 

Now as I was saying, people often use the argument against SM that all they do is hire foreign producers to make their hit songs. While that is not new information at all, does it really matter?

 

I give props to SM for the good sh*t that they put out, not HOW they make it, as long as it's legal and honest.

 

Some fans of other companies sit on their high horses for having their faves' songs be produced in-house compared to SM, and that's great and all. But does knowing that fact influence the way you HEAR the song? If it does, then you ain't really listening to the song with your ears to determine whether it's good or bad, but with your emotional attachment to the company.

 

After all, it still takes a genius pair of ears from someone in SM to approve a good song from these foreign producers.

 

I swear some of ya'll be actin like your favorite "American" gadget(s) isn't built with Chinese components 

[lighterxx]

Idc about outsourcing or it being in house, but i enjoy it when idols completely compose their songs, its so interesting to hear their tastes and their lyrics.

And Sm gets minimal flack for composition, they get flack for lyrics usually, i know they outsource it but cant they also outsource a good korean lyricist? Lyrics are usually so weird rip

[Thatoneuser]

I understand why they're outsourcing their producers, but I think in do so they lost their sound. SM was the hallmark and originator or the Kpop sound. They were the start of the Korean idol industry but now they lost what makes them special. They're not Korean anymore. They have very talented song writers and producers in SM, specifically the man himself Lee Soo Man. He's so talented. They need to go back to the basic and find their kpop sound again.

I do like their music but it's not SM anymore. 

[Jollux]

Outsourcing producers proved to be a very effective method to handle not just the demand of music, but the quality and diversity. Otherwise, they would starve people like YG does, or having not so great music choices like JYP.

 

They are always trying to take their music to the next level, even when it doesn't work. Which is an away better option than try to be the one trick pony the most companies are. Not saying they just make masterpiece, but at least they give an honest try most of the time.

 

Kpop fans need to concentrate more in the music and less in bragging and achievements, like they often do.

[Nero_Kpop]

2 minutes ago, Jollux said:

Outsourcing producers proved to be a very effective method to handle not just the demand of music, but the quality and diversity. Otherwise, they would starve people like YG does, or having not so great music choices like JYP.

 

They are always trying to take their music to the next level, even when it doesn't work. Which is an away better option than try to be the one trick pony the most companies are. Not saying they just make masterpiece, but at least they give an honest try most of the time.

 

Kpop fans need to concentrate more in the music and less in bragging and achievements, like they often do.

JYP and SM are not that different when it comes to producing, JYP is just more restrictive with their choice and want the music to fit tightly to the artist while SM is willing to try anything with potential

[Jollux]

10 minutes ago, Nero_Kpop said:

JYP and SM are not that different when it comes to producing, JYP is just more restrictive with their choice and want the music to fit tightly to the artist while SM is willing to try anything with potential

JYP play very safe most of the time, not really comparable. Then you have deficiency of the singing department, which does not help save a bad song like happens with SM sometimes. Other problem is the company is too cheap to really hire the best of the best.

[Nero_Kpop]

3 minutes ago, Jollux said:

JYP play very safe most of the time, not really comparable. Then you have deficiency of the singing department, which does not help save a bad song like happens with SM sometimes. Other problem is the company is too cheap to really hire the best of the best.

I guess that's what happen when you start a discussion with a brainwashed SM stan

[Walmart Goddess]

I have no problem with outsourcing. All i gotta say is Kpop fans don't have any right to bash western music when thats what SM usually uses for their artists. Even during their golden years, SNSD Genie was not a korean composition.

[Iljin Oppa]

I agree with you 100%, SM takes the most risks and because of that, they have the best music out of the Big 3. 

YG's sound was revolutionary but like Calvin Harris they've used the same formulas to death and JYP's music is just universally terrible. 

SM songs can sound very sameish, especially when they're that SMP genre they try to push or when Kenzie or YYJ are the main producers. Their music is always better and much more interesting when they outsource it, which they've been doing a lot lately, thankfully. It's why RV is recognised as having one of the best discographies in Kpop.

With that said though, I can't believe you're saying this whilst stanning BP with their Best of Teddy Mixes 4.0 music. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Iljin Oppa

[Jollux]

54 minutes ago, Nero_Kpop said:

I guess that's what happen when you start a discussion with a brainwashed SM stan

I don't even think JYP music is the worst, but there is a clear lack of innovation and experimentation. That is a problem with YG too, but they have better marketing and "stage presence" to compensate for that.

 

Try to deny or brush off the obviously singing problem that happens in the company won't help anybody. Why settle for the bare minimum?

 

The west is full of mediocre songs that a carried by above average singers. JYP should take notes.

 

 

[Shinki]

1 hour ago, Walmart Goddess said:

I have no problem with outsourcing. All i gotta say is Kpop fans don't have any right to bash western music when thats what SM usually uses for their artists. Even during their golden years, SNSD Genie was not a korean composition.

There's a difference though. Korean composition/production often sound different even if they're produced by international producers, it can be confirmed by many producers out there. They know what to do, what sounds to approach and what kinda tight finishes they have to achieve to get that kpop flavor right. As someone who transitionated from interntional/english pop to kpop and kept trying to get into english pop in the last years, that's something many artists out of kpop can't achieve... Not like they want to. It's just how Jpop also has it's own sound but also often have international producers.

[CandyCane23049]

1 hour ago, Jollux said:

JYP play very safe most of the time, not really comparable. Then you have deficiency of the singing department, which does not help save a bad song like happens with SM sometimes. Other problem is the company is too cheap to really hire the best of the best.

JYPE has literally used the same producers SM has, what are you saying?

Edited July 10, 2020 by CandyCane23049

[echobunny]

1 hour ago, Jollux said:

I don't even think JYP music is the worst, but there is a clear lack of innovation and experimentation. That is a problem with YG too, but they have better marketing and "stage presence" to compensate for that.

 

Try to deny or brush off the obviously singing problem that happens in the company won't help anybody. Why settle for the bare minimum?

 

The west is full of mediocre songs that a carried by above average singers. JYP should take notes.

 

 

sm and jyp often use the same producers. you can hear distinct differences in their sound when the in house producers make a song, but other than that both companies have released good and bad songs made by foreign producers

itzy and stray kids have experimented with their sound so much that people call it noise-pop lmao

red velvet and nct have tried many different sounds as well, but never stray too far away from their original concepts

having weak vocalists forces the company to make better, catchy songs, which in my opinion is a plus

Edited July 10, 2020 by echobunny

[deliriousness]

I actually enjoy some outsourcing because it increases the diversity of their music and they end up taking more risks with their music. Some are hits and some are misses but you can usually count on SM groups not sound like a copy of another group. 

 

However, when Soshi was still active I used to wish they would find a good producer, to craft songs specifically for them. I was very greedy, and while they have some amazing songs, I really wanted them to gain a more consistent sound, one that suited them well and was uniquely Soshi.

i suppose i just completely contradicted myself, lol. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by marin karin

[Jollux]

2 hours ago, CandyCane23049 said:

JYPE has literally used the same producers SM has, what are you saying?

Is that so?... But the results....

[deliriousness]

2 hours ago, CandyCane23049 said:

JYPE has literally used the same producers SM has, what are you saying?

this is not correct! occasionally yes but in general, they use different producers. plus the fact JYP writes and produces a lot too, while SM has their own producers like Kenzie and YYJ.

[deliriousness]

3 hours ago, Jollux said:

JYP play very safe most of the time, not really comparable. Then you have deficiency of the singing department, which does not help save a bad song like happens with SM sometimes. Other problem is the company is too cheap to really hire the best of the best.

i agree with this, i wont say its a singing "deficiency" really but JYP makes his idols sing a certain way that, for me, has prevented songs from being as enjoyable as they could be.

[Onetooth]

well in recent years sm certainly ain't delivering quality music

[Walmart Goddess]

5 hours ago, Shinki said:

 Korean composition/production often sound different even if they're produced by international producers, it can be confirmed by many producers out there.

Run Devil Run by Kesha is literally the same song as SNSD's version. Only difference is Taeyeon did not perform the chorus as good as Kesha. She pronounced "Run" weirdly with hardly any emotion. It would be like that since english is not her first language.

and when they sung Duffy's Mercy. i did detect a difference other than language.

Listening to Red Velvet's bad boy does not give me kpop vibes at all. It literally sounds like something that could have been released in the states. Their song Psycho is the same too. Listening to the original english demo, it clear why they could not replace the word "Psycho" with a korean word. The song would have felt off otherwise.

Sorry but i don't agree with your argument. Sure in some cases they make significant changes where the sound comes out different (and yes i see they get credited for it), but for the majority its minimal changes and a simple translation.

[clevercactus]

7 hours ago, Thatoneuser said:

I understand why they're outsourcing their producers, but I think in do so they lost their sound. SM was the hallmark and originator or the Kpop sound. They were the start of the Korean idol industry but now they lost what makes them special. They're not Korean anymore. They have very talented song writers and producers in SM, specifically the man himself Lee Soo Man. He's so talented. They need to go back to the basic and find their kpop sound again.

I do like their music but it's not SM anymore. 

I have to disagree with this.

I feel like SM has a very noticeable sound. That melodious, vocally pleasing RnB sound (eg: Verses in NCT 127 Kick it and chorus of EXO Obsession). They also always always do great harmonies (eg: Shinee Married to the Music, Red Velvet Umpah Umpah and fx 4 walls). 

Of course they also have super sleek mixing and mastering which makes their songs sound expensive. 

Most importantly SM cast their groups well vocally. With SNSD you had Taeyeon (vocal powerhouse), Jessica (sweet angelic voice), Tiffany (strong low rnb feel) and Seohyun (husky, stable). With Red Velvet you have Wendy, Seulgi with Joy as the sweet touch. With Shinee you had Jonghyun's strong voice, Key's light voice and Onew's beautiful tone. 

That's why their songs are most of the time very vocal forward/vocal focused.

[Shinki]

32 minutes ago, Walmart Goddess said:

Run Devil Run by Kesha is literally the same song as SNSD's version. Only difference is Taeyeon did not perform the chorus as good as Kesha. She pronounced "Run" weirdly with hardly any emotion. It would be like that since english is not her first language.

and when they sung Duffy's Mercy. i did detect a difference other than language.

Listening to Red Velvet's bad boy does not give me kpop vibes at all. It literally sounds like something that could have been released in the states. Their song Psycho is the same too. Listening to the original english demo, it clear why they could not replace the word "Psycho" with a korean word. The song would have felt off otherwise.

Sorry but i don't agree with your argument. Sure in some cases they make significant changes where the sound comes out different (and yes i see they get credited for it), but for the majority its minimal changes and a simple translation.

If you weren't able to catch on RDR changes, then I don't know what I can tell you? Honestly it's way better finished, there are touches not only in the vocals but in the mixing of the song itself. There's also this to Mercy.

But where in the world would you hear a song like bad boy or psycho frankly speaking lol that's just not happening at all. You know another case? Kingdom Come is not a og red velvet song, yet they changed it up and gave it a kpop final touch. I'm not saying that oh my god kpop is SO SO SO different, I'm saying that their way of finishing it up is different and gives a different flavor other than if it was released by a non-korean singer. Even blackpink that got the strongest western sound in kpop, if you hear Sour Candy you'll spot the difference right away just like Close to Me remix with Red Velvet.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Shinki

[Poised]

I don't really care. I just want good music.

[CandyCane23049]

7 hours ago, marin karin said:

this is not correct! occasionally yes but in general, they use different producers. plus the fact JYP writes and produces a lot too, while SM has their own producers like Kenzie and YYJ.

JYPE has their own in house producers too like Collaspsedone and Shim Eun jung JYP doesn’t makes much music like he use to do in the past. He might write lyrics but more often than not he doesn’t compose as many songs as in the past. 

[Jikrytae]

On 7/9/2020 at 8:58 PM, Shinki said:

There's a difference though. Korean composition/production often sound different even if they're produced by international producers, it can be confirmed by many producers out there. They know what to do, what sounds to approach and what kinda tight finishes they have to achieve to get that kpop flavor right. As someone who transitionated from interntional/english pop to kpop and kept trying to get into english pop in the last years, that's something many artists out of kpop can't achieve... Not like they want to. It's just how Jpop also has it's own sound but also often have international producers.

"Kpop flavor"   lol

Everyone in kpop outsources their songs. Kpop isn't just western pop music made by Koreans, it's literally western pop with Korean lyrics slapped on. Were there still people who didn't know this???