[PANN] Knetz discuss why most of the trainee or groups from Produce series failed to survive

[Chuan]

Pannchoa:

Wanna One, Izone, IOI were doing so well as a Produce group... But why did the people who appeared on Produce all fail?
Once they disband, don't people just end up following their bias? Which groups ended up doing well after Produce... Did everyone fail?

Story Kpop:

Produce groups like Wanna One IZ*ONE I.O.I are doing well. Why is the group from Produce almost ruined?
Who's the best group to break up? Why is everyone going down?
 

 

PC: [+280][-25]

SKPOP: 

Pann

 

 

Netizens' comments:
[PC] (SKPOP)

[+552, -35] Produce's biggest winner was Chungha. Jun Soyeon too. In the end, the ones who have talent will survive
(+421,-24) The final winner of Produce 101 is Chungha. There's a saying, "Jeon Soyeon" too. After all, if you're good, you'll survive.

[+294, -2] Yup yup yup, I'm a person who fangirled on Produce groups but it's true that the companies can't do their work
(+229,-1) As a person who has done so, I am sorry that the agency can't work it.
 

[+290 ,-11] Looking at their teams' chemistry, and looking at their chemistry with kids I've never seen, I got turned off
> If I was to summarize in one sentence, you liked the member because they were a member of that group, when they get into a new group, it's like seeing a completely different person
(+204,-10) When members of the same team watch their chemistry and catch their chemistry with kids they haven't seen anywhere else, they get upset.

[+168, -20] I can agree with Chungha, Jun Soyeon and Nu'est
(+126,-15) Chungha, NU'EST, (G)I-DLE.

 [+165, -16] To be honest, Nu'est are the only boy group who's doing well digitally and fandom-wise, and for female idols, I can only think of Chungha
(+132,-9) To be honest, the only thing that's got the right song and fandom is the NU'EST, (G)I-DLE and Chungha.

[+149, -3] I feel bad for Kim Sejung... She should've just went solo instead of getting into Gugudan
(+109,-1) Kim Sejeong is one of the most I feel bad about... She should be solo not Gugudan..

(+102,-55) There's NU'EST.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Lee

[Regality]

Sejeong is such a sad case... like she had such insane popularity and now its mostly gone..

[satoori]

1. To many solo stans and/or Produce stans. After the Produce group disbands many people don't care for individual groups

2. Sometimes for trainees who were already part of a group/company before the show, being on Produce isn't always going to suddenly make people like their original groups and companies. There's a reason some of them were not successful to begin with. Bad management, group dynamics, and/or etc. These things don't necessarily change after the Produce member returns.

3. Deep down some people don't like long-term commitments to begin with. They get bored easily. The type of Kpop fans who are always jumping around from group to group. Produce groups are perfect for them, since they are temporary.

Edited June 21, 2020 by satoori

[love]

yoo seonho (since he’s in the picture at the top) is doing quite well though? he appears on dramas, variety programs, he has done a ton of CFs/photoshoots...his solo debut imo was to help stabilize his fanbase and not just have him be the counterpart to guanlin...i guess we’ll see once the cube nbg debuts but even his vlive channel and sns accounts have quite a loyal following 

[discocolee]

They forgot about Yeonjung. WJSN is doing very well now.

[Trashie]

I will talk as a produce stan myself wanna one and x1 were my ults at some point

 

there's alot of things to look at 

first there're solo stans gathered for 1 group which made wanna one and x1 even bigger with all of them as one but those solo stans will only follow their bias at the end 

second there're stans who followed the groups as groups but when they disband it'd be too overwhelming, more hard or even less interesting with lesser interaction to follow them so that takes out from the fandom

I do think everyone of those groups have decent fans but its def not as good as when they're all in one fandom and not as good as be a hardcore fan

specially when the groups or being solo concept wouldnt be as what you expect and they doing

 

I mean I still follow each one but I'm not as hardcore fan as before because its too overwhelming I'd follow wooseok mostly and everyone else casually doesn't mean I like them less but it's just hard

Edited June 21, 2020 by Trashie

[sergel]

I mean I’m going to be real, for me most of the songs just aren’t that great in their individual groups and solos. Part of the reason Chungha is so popular is because she has great songs.

Edited June 21, 2020 by sergel

[harumaki]

Their agencies didn't know how to play their cards. What's the point of putting a super popular member on a 8-9 people group, it only makes things uncomfortable between members and ofc those members are the ones who get all the attention (Like in gugudan or dia).

Pristin case was sightly different, Pledis threw them under the bus but we can't deny Kyulkyung and Nayoung were super popular against other members who didn't even participate on pd101.

I'm worried that iz*one members agencies plan to do something similar.

Edited June 21, 2020 by harumaki

[Iljin Oppa]

Boils down to crappy music.

A lot of the times, their debuts post-101 charted pretty decently but the songs just sucked and they lost momentum from there.

[-Amethyst-]

WJSN is doing « well » because they stick to their concept and their sound since their debut so they built a solid fandom sooo great album sales and decent digitals. Plus the amount of effort put in the group (MVs, outfits, concepts) 

 

Weki Meki are really talented but the cheap music is a NO. I think their debut was pretty weak also (no effort in outfits especially)

 

Gugudan : they should have stick to the innocent concept like WJSN. Switching concept to please international fans wasn’t the right thing to do.

 

DIA well they comeback every 2 years so.

[hynapia]

3 hours ago, Lee said:

 

[+290 ,-11] Looking at their teams' chemistry, and looking at their chemistry with kids I've never seen, I got turned off

> If I was to summarize in one sentence, you liked the member because they were a member of that group, when they get into a new group, it's like seeing a completely different person
(+204,-10) When members of the same team watch their chemistry and catch their chemistry with kids they haven't seen anywhere else, they get upset.

 

I don't understand this. The person is literally the same, just interacting with other people. If you voted for that member to be in the group because you liked them in the first place (without thinking who the other members of the group would be) it doesn't make sense stop following that person just because they're in another group now. Not to mention that what's their excuse for the members that went solo like Sejeong, Daniel, Jihoon, Sungwoon, etc? They're still doing well but they lost a LOT of fame. They can't use the "interacting with other kids" excuse here.

It's more like people simply like the produce franchise but once the produce hype it's over they move on. But even then I don't think they're doing that bad. Chungha and NU'EST are obviously doing the best but WJSN, Weki Meki, Somi, AB6IX, CIX, Daniel, Jihoon, Sungwoon, etc are all doing decently.

[foncho majere]

Well, It Is true that Gugudan was not a hit, but 2 dramas, one play, one show on Netflix, two decent Singles and several appearances in varieties and a lot of commercials Is hardly a fail 

[camelliabloom]

1 hour ago, hynapia said:

I don't understand this. The person is literally the same, just interacting with other people. If you voted for that member to be in the group because you liked them in the first place (without thinking who the other members of the group would be) it doesn't make sense stop following that person just because they're in another group now. Not to mention that what's their excuse for the members that went solo like Sejeong, Daniel, Jihoon, Sungwoon, etc? They're still doing well but they lost a LOT of fame. They can't use the "interacting with other kids" excuse here.

It's more like people simply like the produce franchise but once the produce hype it's over they move on. But even then I don't think they're doing that bad. Chungha and NU'EST are obviously doing the best but WJSN, Weki Meki, Somi, AB6IX, CIX, Daniel, Jihoon, Sungwoon, etc are all doing decently.

I think that it's the different dynamic around other people. The idols likely have different management/assignments in roles within the two groups; so one idol may be the youngest of the PD group and have a maknae personality, but then assume a completely different role if they're older within their permanent group. Ultimately I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint although I can sort of understand. I think what it comes down to is that the group does not necessarily get exposure, it's the individual trainee. That trainee gains a lot of fans, yet when brought back to the permanent group, they have to share camera time with new members whom the stan isn't used to. It's possible that the stan is biased towards the Produce group and their dynamic, and the 'quality' of the new group doesn't compare.

[hynapia]

1 minute ago, camelliabloom said:

I think that it's the different dynamic around other people. The idols likely have different management/assignments in roles within the two groups; so one idol may be the youngest of the PD group and have a maknae personality, but then assume a completely different role if they're older within their permanent group. Ultimately I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint although I can sort of understand. I think what it comes down to is that the group does not necessarily get exposure, it's the individual trainee. That trainee gains a lot of fans, yet when brought back to the permanent group, they have to share camera time with new members whom the stan isn't used to. It's possible that the stan is biased towards the Produce group and their dynamic, and the 'quality' of the new group doesn't compare.

Idk, I personally liked Hyeongjun and Minhee in X1 and I continued liking them in Cravity even if the dynamic is different with new group. But their personality is still the same. I think many people are fans of the "produce brand" and once the members debut in another group or as a solo, they kinda lose interest because like I said it's happened even with solo debuts where they don't have to interact or share spotlight with others. Even Kang Daniel was super popular in W1 but now he's just a decently successful solo artist, and same happened with Sejeong or Somi. They were super popular as IOI members but just doing decently as solos.

[Zaiku]

5 hours ago, Lee said:

In the end, the ones who have talent will survive

As it should

[Zaiku]

Double post
 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Zaiku

[clevercactus]

3 hours ago, harumaki said:

Their agencies didn't know how to play their cards. What's the point of putting a super popular member on a 8-9 people group, it only makes things uncomfortable between members and ofc those members are the ones who get all the attention (Like in gugudan or dia).

Pristin case was sightly different, Pledis threw them under the bus but we can't deny Kyulkyung and Nayoung were super popular against other members who didn't even participate on pd101.

I'm worried that iz*one members agencies plan to do something similar.

yeah, they're filling the groups with wayyy too many members. Especially in Gugudan and Weki Meki's case.

Weki Meki is just tragic because everytime I look at Weki Meki, I can only see stunning Doyeon. Her charisma is just on a different level from the rest of the group and it makes watching them feel weird and jarring. Also none of their songs are exceptional songs that can make them stand out from the rest of the pack (think G-dile's Latata which instantly elevated them amongst a sea of new girl groups).

Gugudan has wayyy too many members and the company just doesnt know how to promote all the members. Same with Weki Meki, the songs are good, they're not bad but they're not outstanding enough to bring them out of the brink of unpopularity. 

Pristin is different because we were already introduced to 7 out of the 10 members of Pristin in Produce 101. So having a lot of members in Pristin wasn't their downfall. It was having the shittiest management. Pledis is a repeat offender in the destroying girl groups category. They should be banned from accepting more trainees and ruining the dreams of any future girls. 

I heard Yena is joining Everglow? If that is the case, then it is not too bad.

But what about Eunbi and Chaewon? I don't know how popular/ successful Rocket Punch is these days. 

I'm worried about Chaeyeon. She is the #1 dancer (tied with Lisa maybe) and she won't have much of a career if WM can't properly debut her. 

[shay]

Biggest singing talent glow up from pd101 is Hweseung..from Nflying..

Dude got Super Rookie 2019 in Immortal Songs getting well deserved recognition for his talent..AS HE SHOULD..

Anyways, those group flopped because of mismanagement and boring songs..if not they would have turned out like gidle(or however you spelled it)

 

[RIPHaldir]

Bc the produce series hurt the idol industry overall and escalated the saruration of the market + feeding into solo stans over group stans

[Jem's]

6 hours ago, Regality said:

Sejeong is such a sad case... like she had such insane popularity and now its mostly gone..

she's still popular tho. not as big as before (because so many years and things happened) but her solo does well and her acting career is fine, she's got cfs and she's always busy. Like she just got a musical with some exo members + new season on a netflix show. So I woudn't say it's a sad case, at least not as bad as some others

 

6 hours ago, love said:

yoo seonho (since he’s in the picture at the top) is doing quite well though? he appears on dramas, variety programs, he has done a ton of CFs/photoshoots...his solo debut imo was to help stabilize his fanbase and not just have him be the counterpart to guanlin...i guess we’ll see once the cube nbg debuts but even his vlive channel and sns accounts have quite a loyal following 

exactly, it amazes me how after so long he keeps a loyal fanbase. and boy is always busy, not so long ago he finished Handsome tigers and had a special webdrama, now he just got a new cf, Idol Cafe new season and Handsome Tigers is coming back.

also his solo managed to debut on melon, despite only promoting once on MCountdown. that alone shows how good he's doing after pd

[Archer2006]

Man Pristin had the BEST chance to succeed. There were so talented, popular, and known. it wasn't just 1 or 2 members. They have several legit it girls. They were creating so much buzz and then Pledis had to fuck them over for no damm reason. Like they could have been everything. Just thinking about how they were shafted puts me in a bad mood. 

[sinnfb]

This is typical of every talent competition reality tv show. American Idol, The X Factor, The Voice... most contestants or even winners disappear when the show ends, which is unfortunate because many of them are very talented and deserved more. I think poor management is the biggest factor in this situation. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by sinnfb

[sunshinersforcedlaugh]

42 minutes ago, sinnfb said:

This is typical of every talent competition reality tv show. American Idol, The X Factor, The Voice... most contestants or even winners disappear when the show ends, which is unfortunate because many of them are very talented and deserved more. I think poor management is the biggest factor in this situation. 

Pretty much this. There is a few good videos on youtube about why. Main reason is what it takes to win on a survival show isn't necessarily the same thing it takes to be a popular and successful idol. 

[Ege-vika]

Because people like them in the show and the group created from this. They themselves feel like creators. 

And then the contestants are being put in the groups of 10 random for the fans people with not that great songs, because companies rash to put as many people as they  can in and pluck a song as fast as they can. I believe if the songs were better and the number of people in the groups would be less, the chances of it to go better would be higher.

[ohsolively]

Even with the popularity from Produce, I'm not sure why people are surprised that the majority of them failed to survive. Just as with regular permanent groups, not all of the members will be successful as an individuals; 1 or 2 from the group may do well as solo (singing/acting etc), some do ok and the rest just end up forgotten. Ultimately when the group is divided, most fans will inevitably just focus on their bias etc.

This process is a lot quicker/worse for produce members since the group is temporary and then most of the time their agencies then stick them in a nugu group the solo fans don't care about. Produce members also have to contend with the fact that fans also move onto the next new produce group as well. Produce gives a lot of attention and popularity but it's temporary.

Add that to bad management and over saturated market (all the regular things most idols deal with) and it's not that surprising.

Chungha was lucky she had good management who debuted her as solo and gave her good songs and concepts (along with her talent). There was also not a lot of expectation towards her (compared to higher ranked/more popular members like Somi/Sejeong) so she could take her time - even if she was half as successful as she is now she would still be ones of the most successful post produce.

Edited June 22, 2020 by ohsolively