[NB] Hyuna's 'reggae hair' under debate

[reiichi]

19 hours ago, plutto said:

God this thread is so ignorant. You guys are so insensitive it hurts.

Anti-Black sentiment is definitely not only an American thing.

 

All countries have racists, and racial minorities always have it hard.

Gatekeeping though isn't how you lesser inter-racial tensions.

[frozentear]

19 minutes ago, reiichi said:

They're fired for this _in the US_ and pretty much not anywhere else. The US are the most racist country in the world and should try to solve their own problems before attacking the rest of the world over fashion choices.

It's not just the US, there are other places too (as said in my other comment). I don't think Hyuna deserves to be attacked for this tho.

Edited January 18, 2020 by frozentear

[Angel_Nessa]

talking about cultural appropriation is so complicated.

KPOP would've never existed cause "pop" and "hip hop" are not from Korean culture. We'd be stanning a bunch of handsome guys singing traditional Korean songs.  

Go to Mexico, and locals will try to sell you Mexican hats. So should I educate them that they can't sell something that only belongs to that culture?The same for the Chinese people here selling Chinese dress to non-Asians. 

I'm from Brazil, a country full of immigrants. I've seen many Brazilian people wearing things that belongs to other countries cultures. If you'renot  disrespecting anyone's culture or doing it to mock a culture, I see no problem. And about the history, there are many traditional items that also have a history behind it, braids are not the only thing with a history. 

[plutto]

4 hours ago, reiichi said:

All countries have racists, and racial minorities always have it hard.

Gatekeeping though isn't how you lesser inter-racial tensions.

Before we talk about "gatekeeping", let's talk about how black people have it hard because of their hair. If they wear an afro, it's "messy hair" and thus unprofessional. If they wear dreads, it's dirty and should be cut off, otherwise they're going to be punished in school (even though the tecnique used to make dreads on 4 type hair is entirely different from people with non 4 type hair and because of that it shouldn't smell bad or anything).

The day those things stop being a huge problem for black people (and trust me, it is; there's a reason why California approved a law that bans this kind of discrimination only last year), then we can talk about how we're "gatekeeping" non-black people from having """reggae hair""" because they want to look cool 

"Ah, but this doesn't apply in Korea, only in America!"

Well, Korea isn't even willing to hire a a korean born biracial model because his skin is dark (see the video I posted), I doubt they would want to hire someone with black hair styles.

You think a korean would keep their "reggae hair before looking for a job? Someone from Korea, a country that is so strict with their beauty standards, even when hiring? Yeah, no.

And even if it wasn't a problem there, you guys should learn to be more sensitive. I'm not telling you to let trolls demonize your faves because of a mistake, but at least try to understand why it's a problem at the first place. Understand that there are people out there whose concerns are real and not just a reason to cancel someone.

 

Please, take your time to read the links I posted if you care.

[Monti]

People believe cultural appropriation is still a thing in this globalized world? lol Americans need to grow the f up and stop believing everything revolve around them and their racial issues. 

[Quintessential]

While I personally don't care about what other people do to their hair, the way you guys talk about black people is so fucking weird. Also wtf is reggae braids, I had a good laugh when I read that.

[Elscian]

Those are braids tho right? We used to wear lots of braids like that as kids(as braids are a part of Asia's culture too). If it really is braids then idk what some people here mean my natural hair.  If its something else tho (like dreads) then yeah I see.

[Tee]

What bothers me most is that they're calling it "reggae hair".

[Mrs. Morale]

Anyway, idk about y'all but am going to talk from my country experience. Back in the 70s-90s era most black people were "hunted" and had their hair shaved off especially those with locks (70% of my country was black during that era, imagine your own race "hunting" because your hair wasn't considered of high standard). I can competely understand where the criticism is coming from. 

[Mrs. Morale]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:09 PM, BTS Anti said:

I don’t see why Americans are bringing up people getting fired in America for box braids.
She’s a Korean living in Korea.

”Double-Standards” arguments only work in America.

 So going by your logic since black people in Korea can wear their braids to work then her wearing them isnt a double standard anyway. Idk what the fuss is with.

On 1/16/2020 at 11:05 PM, adda said:

Is not the world’s fault that in the U.S there was a strong anti-black hair sentiment for decades /centuries, is not our fault that the black codes existed in state constitution, is not our fault that locks might jeopardize job prospects for black American in the U.S and  is definitely not our fault that black life (to some extent) is still dehumanised and criminalised there, in the U.S. People (Americans in particular) should stop tiding non-Americans hair with American politics and American black identity and scream "she's mocking a culture ..." , because the world does not revolve around U.S.

But it's not only happening in the US, it's happened / happening in my country..85% of the people here are black, yet we are still being discriminated.

[Mrs. Morale]

On 1/18/2020 at 12:10 PM, reiichi said:

They're fired for this _in the US_ and pretty much not anywhere else. The US are the most racist country in the world and should try to solve their own problems before attacking the rest of the world over fashion choices.

It's not just the US, it happened a lot in 90s. Thankfully it has toned down since then. Black people with straight are given little more opportunity than people with course hair.

[domination]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:25 PM, plutto said:

Before we talk about "gatekeeping", let's talk about how black people have it hard because of their hair. If they wear an afro, it's "messy hair" and thus unprofessional. If they wear dreads, it's dirty and should be cut off, otherwise they're going to be punished in school (even though the tecnique used to make dreads on 4 type hair is entirely different from people with non 4 type hair and because of that it shouldn't smell bad or anything).

The day those things stop being a huge problem for black people (and trust me, it is; there's a reason why California approved a law that bans this kind of discrimination only last year), then we can talk about how we're "gatekeeping" non-black people from having """reggae hair""" because they want to look cool 

"Ah, but this doesn't apply in Korea, only in America!"

Well, Korea isn't even willing to hire a a korean born biracial model because his skin is dark (see the video I posted), I doubt they would want to hire someone with black hair styles.

You think a korean would keep their "reggae hair before looking for a job? Someone from Korea, a country that is so strict with their beauty standards, even when hiring? Yeah, no.

And even if it wasn't a problem there, you guys should learn to be more sensitive. I'm not telling you to let trolls demonize your faves because of a mistake, but at least try to understand why it's a problem at the first place. Understand that there are people out there whose concerns are real and not just a reason to cancel someone.

 

Please, take your time to read the links I posted if you care.

While I certainly understand and sympathise with the history, I don't understand how anyone (apart from black people) having dreads is in your words, a "mistake". Sorry to break it to you but black people don't own that hairstyle. And putting so much focus on people having dreads (who probably got it out of genuine appreciation for that hairstyle) is not addressing the underlying racism issue at hand and just a misdirection of anger and hatred.

And while I get that racism against blacks is not just America specific and even happen in Korea (which fyi, prolly stems from whatever soft culture they absorb from the US), what exactly is the point in drawing such a clear line and getting annoyed at people embracing certain parts of black culture (e.g dreads)? Especially non-americans who have no direct involvement in all the racist scenarios against dreads which you brought up.

I like to point out that in a globalised world, this sort of scenarios happens to any culture in any place. For example, sinophobia is a very real thing happening in many countries (especially Europe and America) but that doesn't stop many people in those countries from eating Chinese takeaway. And you don't see Chinese people getting their panties twisted over this.

Policing anyone in what hairstyle they can have, what they can wear, what they can eat based on their heritage is quite honestly, downright absurd in this globalised world. So if blacks were discriminated for having dreads, is it now reverse racism whereby non-blacks spotting dreads are going to be flamed? When exactly is all these going to stop?

Edited January 22, 2020 by domination

[Pessego]

This Thread is a mess. 

[Chemist]

On 1/17/2020 at 4:27 AM, micropachycephalosaurus said:

ngl i got my hair done like that as a kid on a vacation in turkey. didn't know it was problematic back then, only learned about that when i got older and interacted with americans online

Americans want to impose their culture on the rest of the wrold. If Americans think it's wrong then it should be wrong for everyone else.

I am flattered everytime someone dresses with things from my culture

Edited January 22, 2020 by Chemist

[Chemist]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:53 PM, plutto said:

God this thread is so ignorant. You guys are so insensitive it hurts.

Anti-Black sentiment is definitely not only an American thing.

 

Anti black sentiment is not an american thing but being offended by petty and irrelevant stuff like braids IS an american thing

[plutto]

6 hours ago, domination said:

While I certainly understand and sympathise with the history, I don't understand how anyone (apart from black people) having dreads is in your words, a "mistake". Sorry to break it to you but black people don't own that hairstyle. And putting so much focus on people having dreads (who probably got it out of genuine appreciation for that hairstyle) is not addressing the underlying racism issue at hand and just a misdirection of anger and hatred.

And while I get that racism against blacks is not just America specific and even happen in Korea (which fyi, prolly stems from whatever soft culture they absorb from the US), what exactly is the point in drawing such a clear line and getting annoyed at people embracing certain parts of black culture (e.g dreads)? Especially non-americans who have no direct involvement in all the racist scenarios against dreads which you brought up.

I like to point out that in a globalised world, this sort of scenarios happens to any culture in any place. For example, sinophobia is a very real thing happening in many countries (especially Europe and America) but that doesn't stop many people in those countries from eating Chinese takeaway. And you don't see Chinese people getting their panties twisted over this.

Policing anyone in what hairstyle they can have, what they can wear, what they can eat based on their heritage is quite honestly, downright absurd in this globalised world. So if blacks were discriminated for having dreads, is it now reverse racism whereby non-blacks spotting dreads are going to be flamed? When exactly is all these going to stop?

You say black people doesn't own those hairstyles, but it's only them who wear it regularly... because it's their natural hair.

The mistake here is non-black people wearing those hairstyles only in some specific contexts that only makes the stigma against said hairstyles worse. They wear it to look cool, to do a "Hip-hop", "street", "gangsta" concept. But when they want to look serious, professional, cute, etc. they undo those hairstyles.

These hairstyles end up becoming attatched to "hip-hop", "gangsta", etc. as if they were created only for those things. As if they aren't hairstyles that black people have been wearing in any situation. See koreans calling it "reggae hair".

And the sad part is: non-black people can undo those hairstyles whenever they want. But for black people, those hairstyles are their natural hair. They cant "undo" it. Yeah, they can make it straight and do a hairstyle that conforms to the european beauty standard... But why should it be like this? Why do they have to change their own natural hair to be taken seriously?

Why in kpop, when a Idol wear dreads, cornrolls, etc., it's almost always to do a hard or hip hop concept? Why we don't see idols doing inocent concepts wearing an afro?

The best thing for non-black people to do, if they truly appreciate those hairstyles, would be stopping wearing those hairstyles to look "cool", "hip", "reggae",  and instead should show awareness to the issue black people faces and try to help end the stigma against it. And then, when the stigma is finally over, I will agree with you that everyone should be able to wear those hairstyles . (Yes I know it's really hard and an almost impossible thing to happen, but the world isn't fair unfortunately.)

Hyuna wearing this type of hairstyle and calling it "reggae hair" (idk if it's Hyuna's words, but either way it's disrespectful to call it that) is ignorant regardless of her intention, but once again, I don't think people should crucify Hyuna because of this. The best thing to do would be educating her, but considering how hard it is to reach an idol and how even americans themselves have issues understanding this, it's just a lost case. Let it be this: a mistake that she did once. She is human, afterall.

 

Also, your example about food is not exactly comparable because food is not prone to the same type of discrimination that hair does.

Edited January 22, 2020 by plutto

[plutto]

4 hours ago, Chemist said:

Anti black sentiment is not an american thing but being offended by petty and irrelevant stuff like braids IS an american thing

Petty and irrelevant stuff is kpop stans spending their entire time on useless stan wars about things like looks, fandom colors or #1s on music charts because of people that doesn't even know about their existence.

Read my other response and understand why this isn't the petty and irrelevant stuff you think it is:

On 1/18/2020 at 7:25 PM, plutto said:

Before we talk about "gatekeeping", let's talk about how black people have it hard because of their hair. If they wear an afro, it's "messy hair" and thus unprofessional. If they wear dreads, it's dirty and should be cut off, otherwise they're going to be punished in school (even though the tecnique used to make dreads on 4 type hair is entirely different from people with non 4 type hair and because of that it shouldn't smell bad or anything).

The day those things stop being a huge problem for black people (and trust me, it is; there's a reason why California approved a law that bans this kind of discrimination only last year), then we can talk about how we're "gatekeeping" non-black people from having """reggae hair""" because they want to look cool 

"Ah, but this doesn't apply in Korea, only in America!"

Well, Korea isn't even willing to hire a a korean born biracial model because his skin is dark (see the video I posted), I doubt they would want to hire someone with black hair styles.

You think a korean would keep their "reggae hair before looking for a job? Someone from Korea, a country that is so strict with their beauty standards, even when hiring? Yeah, no.

And even if it wasn't a problem there, you guys should learn to be more sensitive. I'm not telling you to let trolls demonize your faves because of a mistake, but at least try to understand why it's a problem at the first place. Understand that there are people out there whose concerns are real and not just a reason to cancel someone.

 

Please, take your time to read the links I posted if you care.

 

Also, a reminder that the USA is not the only country in the world that has black people living in it and suffering discrimination.

[Oppa did mean it]

That's not "reggae hair" lol, I don't even think hyuna called it that, I'm pretty sure the article was the one that called it that, so all of you are fighting for something completely different here, some are fighting because black people are looked down upon in society and the other side is arguing how Americans are trying to impose their culture and social issues on the world

 

Also from my extensive investigantion (by Youtubing Thai braids) those are just some random ass braids people in Thailand do, and Thailand is the place Hyuna got the hair like that so I'm pretty sure there was no ill intentions

 

 

[Jikrytae]

On 1/18/2020 at 12:10 PM, reiichi said:

They're fired for this _in the US_ and pretty much not anywhere else. The US are the most racist country in the world and should try to solve their own problems before attacking the rest of the world over fashion choices.

This is an incredibly ignorant statement. Most racist country in the world? You want me to believe an almost completely homogeneous country like South Korea, where they still do blackface on national television and think nothing of it, is less racist? The US has a tumultuous racial history, and there are still tons of racists unfortunately, but the only reason you hear so much about them is because our diversity forces the subject to the foreground. Most other countries are actually less advanced than us with regards to race relations, because they don't have that diversity yet. They're still racist, they just have no one to be racist to, because everyone is the same race, so no one says anything or tells them it's wrong. 

You clearly lack the worldly experience to be discussing this topic, much less recklessly slandering an entire nation you probably know little about outside of pop culture.

[Jikrytae]

On 1/22/2020 at 9:31 AM, Chemist said:

Americans want to impose their culture on the rest of the wrold. If Americans think it's wrong then it should be wrong for everyone else.

I am flattered everytime someone dresses with things from my culture

Well that's where you're wrong. We don't want to impose our culture on the rest of the world. We already have. We aren't flattered by anything at this point, and most Americans don't even care what foreigners are doing unless it's something truly outrageous. You're paying too much mind to a touchy, vocal minority and generalizing the rest of us.

[abra]

On 1/17/2020 at 3:25 AM, Usagi. said:

Wait a min do they think only asians have straight hair and only whites have blonde hair? We-

Asians - straight dark hair

White people - blonde wavy hair

Black people - Afro/"reggea hair"

Apparently.

[domination]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, plutto said:

You say black people doesn't own those hairstyles, but it's only them who wear it regularly... because it's their natural hair.

The mistake here is non-black people wearing those hairstyles only in some specific contexts that only makes the stigma against said hairstyles worse. They wear it to look cool, to do a "Hip-hop", "street", "gangsta" concept. But when they want to look serious, professional, cute, etc. they undo those hairstyles.

These hairstyles end up becoming attatched to "hip-hop", "gangsta", etc. as if they were created only for those things. As if they aren't hairstyles that black people have been wearing in any situation. See koreans calling it "reggae hair".

And the sad part is: non-black people can undo those hairstyles whenever they want. But for black people, those hairstyles are their natural hair. They cant "undo" it. Yeah, they can make it straight and do a hairstyle that conforms to the european beauty standard... But why should it be like this? Why do they have to change their own natural hair to be taken seriously?

Why in kpop, when a Idol wear dreads, cornrolls, etc., it's almost always to do a hard or hip hop concept? Why we don't see idols doing inocent concepts wearing an afro?

The best thing for non-black people to do, if they truly appreciate those hairstyles, would be stopping wearing those hairstyles to look "cool", "hip", "reggae",  and instead should show awareness to the issue black people faces and try to help end the stigma against it. And then, when the stigma is finally over, I will agree with you that everyone should be able to wear those hairstyles . (Yes I know it's really hard and an almost impossible thing to happen, but the world isn't fair unfortunately.)

Hyuna wearing this type of hairstyle and calling it "reggae hair" (idk if it's Hyuna's words, but either way it's disrespectful to call it that) is ignorant regardless of her intention, but once again, I don't think people should crucify Hyuna because of this. The best thing to do would be educating her, but considering how hard it is to reach an idol and how even americans themselves have issues understanding this, it's just a lost case. Let it be this: a mistake that she did once. She is human, afterall.

 

Also, your example about food is not exactly comparable because food is not prone to the same type of discrimination that hair does.

And then, when the stigma is finally over, I will agree with you that everyone should be able to wear those hairstyles . (Yes I know it's really hard and an almost impossible thing to happen, but the world isn't fair unfortunately.)

This is quite honestly, one of the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. Who are you to be dictating what people should be able to do? I don't really get your point about people doing dreads to look "cool", "hip", "reggae" or whatever concept they are envisioning. Are those concepts meant to be bad? And the example about Chinese food is 100% relevant, precisely because people eat Chinese food whenever they want to have something cheap and greasy while enjoying an alone night at home watching netflix, as if Chinese people don't eat Chinese food everyday in different contexts.

I'm honestly so 100% done with this sort of extreme sensitivity which does no good and really will not resolve any true issues.

[plutto]

3 hours ago, domination said:

And then, when the stigma is finally over, I will agree with you that everyone should be able to wear those hairstyles . (Yes I know it's really hard and an almost impossible thing to happen, but the world isn't fair unfortunately.)

This is quite honestly, one of the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. Who are you to be dictating what people should be able to do? I don't really get your point about people doing dreads to look "cool", "hip", "reggae" or whatever concept they are envisioning. Are those concepts meant to be bad? And the example about Chinese food is 100% relevant, precisely because people eat Chinese food whenever they want to have something cheap and greasy while enjoying an alone night at home watching netflix, as if Chinese people don't eat Chinese food everyday in different contexts.

I'm honestly so 100% done with this sort of extreme sensitivity which does no good and really will not resolve any true issues.

I already tried to explain why it's harmful. Read what I wrote again, carefully:

 

On 1/18/2020 at 7:25 PM, plutto said:

Before we talk about "gatekeeping", let's talk about how black people have it hard because of their hair. If they wear an afro, it's "messy hair" and thus unprofessional. If they wear dreads, it's dirty and should be cut off, otherwise they're going to be punished in school (even though the tecnique used to make dreads on 4 type hair is entirely different from people with non 4 type hair and because of that it shouldn't smell bad or anything).

The day those things stop being a huge problem for black people (and trust me, it is; there's a reason why California approved a law that bans this kind of discrimination only last year), then we can talk about how we're "gatekeeping" non-black people from having """reggae hair""" because they want to look cool 

[...]

You think a korean would keep their "reggae hair" before looking for a job? Someone from Korea, a country that is so strict with their beauty standards, even when hiring? Yeah, no.

 

On 1/22/2020 at 4:11 PM, plutto said:

You say black people doesn't own those hairstyles, but it's only them who wear it regularly... because it's their natural hair.

The mistake here is non-black people wearing those hairstyles only in some specific contexts that only makes the stigma against said hairstyles worse. They wear it to look cool, to do a "Hip-hop", "street", "gangsta" concept. But when they want to look serious, professional, cute, etc. they undo those hairstyles.

These hairstyles end up becoming attatched to "hip-hop", "gangsta", etc. as if they were created only for those things. As if they aren't hairstyles that black people have been wearing in any situation. See koreans calling it "reggae hair".

And the sad part is: non-black people can undo those hairstyles whenever they want. But for black people, those hairstyles are their natural hair. They cant "undo" it. Yeah, they can make it straight and do a hairstyle that conforms to the european beauty standard... But why should it be like this? Why do they have to change their own natural hair to be taken seriously?

 

If you still don't understand, then I'm sorry, but I won't explain any further. This entire discussion is draining my mental health.

And I already said food doesn't 'suffer' the same type of discrimination as hair does, in this case. Are people losing their jobs because they eat chinese food?

Edited January 25, 2020 by plutto

[panqueque]

Braids historically have been part of many cultures, so I don't get why people still arguing, is just hair. 

[reiichi]

13 hours ago, Jikrytae said:

This is an incredibly ignorant statement. Most racist country in the world? You want me to believe an almost completely homogeneous country like South Korea, where they still do blackface on national television and think nothing of it, is less racist? The US has a tumultuous racial history, and there are still tons of racists unfortunately, but the only reason you hear so much about them is because our diversity forces the subject to the foreground. Most other countries are actually less advanced than us with regards to race relations, because they don't have that diversity yet. They're still racist, they just have no one to be racist to, because everyone is the same race, so no one says anything or tells them it's wrong. 

You clearly lack the worldly experience to be discussing this topic, much less recklessly slandering an entire nation you probably know little about outside of pop culture.

My own country (France) is just as diverse as the US and we don't get all those stupid debates about cultural appropriation. Don't say you're "more advanced" in terms of race relations when you don't even acknowledge the existence of mixed people and force everyone into little boxes according to their appearance, when culture is a much more relevant factor to one's identity. Tolerance is achieved by cultures intertwining, not by keeping them separate.

Edited January 25, 2020 by reiichi