'Idol Pop' is different from 'K-pop'?

[satoori]

1. What is 'Idol Pop' and how is it different from 'K-pop'?
When I write/teach, I follow the Korean convention and use 'K-pop' as a broad term for music that is both popular and Korean. That includes all sorts of artists from idols to those who perform trot, indie, rock, & ballad

2.  'Idol Pop' is a subset of K-pop made of artists who are trained, produced, and presented to the public in the way that you're probably used to-- like Seventeen, BTS, Monsta X, Twice, SNSD, Black Pink, etc.

3. Although each idol group has its own special qualities, they share certain qualities, right? The importance of visuals, of MVs, of dance choreography, the blinding good looks of the stars who are young, humble, approachable but might not have artistic control compared to mgmt.

4. Who is an 'idol' and who is just 'K-pop'? Well... think of Psy. You know he's K-pop. But is he an idol? Not really, right? 

Even some people who -were- idols can age (and mature, esp. as they gain artistic control) out of the label "idol."

5. So, if you sometimes find it difficult to talk about K-pop b/c you know chart toppers in Korea can be ballad solos artists with no real MV, try using the term 'idol pop' and differentiating it from the larger term 'K-pop' and I guarantee you it will be a useful distinction.

6. I often explain this difference to people so that I can answer their criticisms of "K-pop" --
I tell them that K-pop also includes singer-songwriters, innovative geniuses, people with AMAZING  vocal training, solo singers, bands, people who control all aspects of their art.

7. Is all of Western pop N'Sync, A-ha, ABBA, Boyz II Men, Menudo, Duran Duran and Destiny's Child? The existence of those groups never meant that other types of artist didn't exist in those places. Korea has idol pop, but simultaneously all this other music is being made.

8. Fun thing to think about-- 'idol pop' is an incubator of talent. As they get older, with so much experience in the industry, and much more confidence than they had at first, they branch out. What will all these idols bring to the future of music in Korea as they gain autonomy?

source: https://twitter.com/TheKpopProf/status/1211105511678054400

 

 

 

Comments:

1. (Hesp365) It's an interesting distinction that you raise. I am curious about something, however. According to your classification, is there any chart/mainstream music that is "not" K-pop? For example, if it compasses trot, indie, rock, and ballad, what is K-pop "not" in this method?
         (TheKpopProf) No. If it charts, it's popular. If it's Korean and it charts, it's K-pop.
                 (BangtanMyBang) As far as I know, K-pop is not really a term used in Korea. Only when it's marketed outside of Korea. Also it doesn't stand for Korea popular music (?)

2. (ANAitis) TY for this explanation. Although I'm currently studying Korean Studies at uni, I find myself getting swept up in the Western ideas of K-pop and a bit lost. Esp. on this app. This was a great reminder that the Western lens is not the only lens and not always an accurate one.
           (TheKpopProf) It's easy to get swept up in imprecise language!

3. (fanaticgirl) "K-pop itself is not a just a music genre, but a whole cultural phenomenon." - Taemin

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by satoori

[Yeddong]

Wbk that K-Pop = all "popular" music in Korea in any genre.

[rockerchic88]

for me psy is still kpop. I associate a certain level flamboyance with kpop for example in clothing or fashion which psy’s music certainly is. Both bigbang and psy were from the same agency and they both for me displayed KPOP in a certain way : flamboyant, extravagant, catchy moves and a catchy pop song. 

Pop music from Korea is kpop for me. 

[soman]

I agree there are kpop artists who arent idols, but a hit rock song should not be called kpop

[HongHongEr]

2 hours ago, satoori said:

"K-pop itself is not a just a music genre, but a whole cultural phenomenon." - Taemin

isn't that Hallyu?

previously I used to see comments on korean indie music and rock music that it was not kpop. i never knew k-pop had special term for idols. I know in J-pop they do make that distinction so maybe now k-pop is following

[satoori]

1 hour ago, HongHongEr said:

isn't that Hallyu?

Hallyu wave- to my understanding the term was coined during the 2nd gen(?) When kpop, kdramas, Korean culture in general begin to spread globally (mainly Asia in the beginning...)

 

edit: 

"The Korean Wave (Hallyu) refers to the global popularity of South Korea's cultural economy exporting pop culture, entertainment, music, TV dramas and movies. Hallyu is a Chinese term which, when translated, literally means “Korean Wave”. (martinroll)

"The Korean Wave  is the increase in global popularity of South Korean culture since the 1990s. First driven by the spread of K-dramas and K-pop across East, South, and Southeast Asia during its initial stages, the Korean Wave evolved from a regional development into a global phenomenon, carried by the Internet and social media and the proliferation of K-pop music videos on YouTube." (wikipedia)

 

I notice that Koreans don't tend to use the word Hallyu much while speaking. At least not anymore. Maybe that's why idols like Taemin tend to lump everything as "K-pop"...

Edited December 29, 2019 by satoori

[satoori]

3 hours ago, Remuku said:

Wbk that K-Pop = all "popular" music in Korea in any genre.

tbh i never consider it as all "popular" music in any genre.

imo, pop is pop. there's British pop, american pop, j-pop, etc...so i figure k-pop just meant korean pop music

2 hours ago, YilingLaozu said:

for me psy is still kpop. I associate a certain level flamboyance with kpop for example in clothing or fashion which psy’s music certainly is. Both bigbang and psy were from the same agency and they both for me displayed KPOP in a certain way : flamboyant, extravagant, catchy moves and a catchy pop song. 

Pop music from Korea is kpop for me. 

same i consider psy kpop also

i always had similar thoughts as you too

1 hour ago, soman said:

I agree there are kpop artists who arent idols, but a hit rock song should not be called kpop

yea more like k-rock. similar to how there is j-pop, j-rock, etc. 

the term and genre, j-rock, is very popular in japan and with ifans

it's interesting that the term k-rock hasn't became popular

Edited December 29, 2019 by satoori

[Just Peachy]

In Korea people very much just distinguish between idol music and music. Kpop isn't really a word they use other than when talking to foreigners/about hallyu. Since idols by far make up the largest % of hallyu music and what foreigners listen to, I think it's safe to say Koreans are referring to idol music when they use the term 'kpop'. But many international fans use the word to simply describe popular music in Korea. I sometimes find it a bit confusing to know if people are talking about idol music or just popular Korean music.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Just Peachy

[starsocks]

5 minutes ago, Just Peachy said:

I think it's safe to say Koreans are referring to idol music when they use the term 'kpop'. But many international fans use the word to simply describe popular music in Korea.

^^^^^

[satoori]

2 minutes ago, Just Peachy said:

In Korea people very much just distinguish between idol music and music. Kpop isn't really a word they use other than when talking to foreigners/about hallyu. Since idols by far make up the largest % of hallyu music and what foreigners listen to, I think it's safe to say Koreans are referring to idol music when they use the term 'kpop'. But many international fans use the word to simply describe popular music in Korea. I sometimes find it a bit confusing to know if people are talking about idol music or just popular Korean music.

this is possible

majority of popular pop songs in korea tend to be from kpop idols. so that make sense

[Yeddong]

53 minutes ago, satoori said:

tbh i never consider it as all "popular" music in any genre.

imo, pop is pop. there's British pop, american pop, j-pop, etc...so i figure k-pop just meant korean pop music

With saying all "popular" music in Korea it's obvious that it's sung in Korean lmao. 

2 hours ago, soman said:

I agree there are kpop artists who arent idols, but a hit rock song should not be called kpop

Obviously it depends, if they are idol pop-rock bands like FTISLAND, CNBLUE or DAY6 among others, or they are 100% rock bands like Dickpunks, No Brain, etc.

[satoori]

58 minutes ago, Remuku said:

With saying all "popular" music in Korea it's obvious that it's sung in Korean lmao. 

 

yes, i knew you meant korean. my comment is still the same. i never consider it all "popular" music in a genre

"pop" itself is a genre. so that way of thinking doesn't make sense to me

[Yeddong]

1 hour ago, satoori said:

yes, i knew you meant korean. my comment is still the same. i never consider it all "popular" music in a genre

"pop" itself is a genre. so that way of thinking doesn't make sense to me

Seo Taiji is called the President of K-Pop Culture and he never made pop but hip-hop (in the start) and rock (in the last years of STandBoys and in their whole solo career).

[satoori]

43 minutes ago, Remuku said:

Seo Taiji is called the President of K-Pop Culture and he never made pop but hip-hop (in the start) and rock (in the last years of STandBoys and in their whole solo career).

I consider some of his earlier stuff as pop music tho. He just had more rap added to it. And experimented a lot with his sound. Similar to how some of BTS songs use to be in the past.

The way I think about it is...

In the West there are different genres of music. Pop, Rock, Indie, etc. There should be the same in Korea too. K-pop, K-rock, K-indie, etc. With in each one they all have their own "popular" artists and hits.

 

edit: However your way of thinking could be right too. K-pop could be an all inclusive genre for some Koreans. As you said, anything "popular"

Lol it's confusing

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by satoori

[satoori]

I think one main reason for the confusion could be due to the origin of the word. Koreans initially based the term "K-pop" off of the direct translation.

"K-pop is a genre of popular music originating in South Korea. While the modern form of K-pop can be traced back to the early 90s, the term itself has been popularized since the 2000s, replacing the term Gayo (가요)." (wikipedia)

Gayo includes popular forms of music like trot and foreign music. Rock, Indie, etc are all foreign to the Koreans of back in the days.

While in the beginning K-pop included all forms of "popular" music no matter the genre, I feel it has involved to be closer to meaning and/or sound of "pop" music in the West. Even Korean award shows nowadays have separate categories for Rock, Indie, Hip Hop, Folk and etc. (Although they still sometimes have a hard time defining the sound lol)

edit: I also feel many artist in Korea who do not want to be labeled as "K-pop"  (due to many reasons, such as the as the stigma against it) are also pushing these separations more. e.g. The Hip Hop Culture in Korea do not call and/or consider themselves "K-pop". Many popular Indie bands also don't like the "K-pop" label.

Edited December 29, 2019 by satoori

[pinkpanda_spirit]

5 hours ago, Just Peachy said:

In Korea people very much just distinguish between idol music and music. Kpop isn't really a word they use other than when talking to foreigners/about hallyu. Since idols by far make up the largest % of hallyu music and what foreigners listen to, I think it's safe to say Koreans are referring to idol music when they use the term 'kpop'. But many international fans use the word to simply describe popular music in Korea. I sometimes find it a bit confusing to know if people are talking about idol music or just popular Korean music.

this ^^^^

[satoori]

OT:

"While some sources attribute the term Hallyu, a variation of a Japanese expression using Ryu(流) as a postfix to refer ‘～way’, ‘~style’, ‘～group’, to being first used by the Ministry of Culture and Tourism in South Korea in 1999, when the ministry produced a music CD titled in Chinese 韓流—Song from Korea; other scholarly sources attribute the term's ascendance from Korean television dramas first airing on Chinese television in 1997, naming the phenomenon hanliu (韓流) meaning "Korean Wave". The term was adopted by Chinese media to refer to the success of South Korean popular culture in China. The term was reintroduced in Japan as hanryu or kanryu by the Asahi Shimbun in 2001." (wikipedia)

 

Hallyu is more of a media used term

Your average Korean don't use it when talking about music.