V.M. 752 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 They seem to live on another planet to other idols. They both have a sense of style and cool thats far beyond most pop stars, east or west. They are the type of girls you think Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Gwen Stefani etc look at and are inspired by. I know the common link is Yasutaka Nakata. Who is a total genius pop producer in my eyes. So my point is, how are they seen in Japan to the general public and other music fans ? plus how do you view them if you are outside of Japan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraa 1,118 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 They seem to live on another planet to other idols. They both have a sense of style and cool thats far beyond most pop stars, east or west. They are the type of girls you think Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Gwen Stefani etc look at and are inspired by. I know the common link is Yasutaka Nakata. Who is a total genius pop producer in my eyes. So my point is, how are they seen in Japan to the general public and other music fans ? plus how do you view them if you are outside of Japan ? What? Not really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 They're not idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midna 2,032 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 PERFUME are not idols =-= not every group is an idol in Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 We've already gone over this quite a few times in the past but Perfume and Kyary Pamyu Pamyu aren't considered idols because they aren't. They've never been marketed or promoted as idols and don't have anything to do with the scene or the culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.M. 752 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 If they are not idols then how are they viewed in Japan then ? are they respected at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If they are not idols then how are they viewed in Japan then ? are they respected at all ? Perfume and Kyary Pamyu Pamyu aren't considered Idols in Japan. They've never been marketed or promoted as Idols throughout their respective careers and they don't have any association with Idol Culture or Community outside of the fact that Kyary has a few friends who happen to be Idols. Perfume are actively respected as a group because of their material and performance aspect of the group. They are one of the few groups outside of the Idol realm that happens to be able to sell incredibly well and function without any trouble. Kyary Pamyu Pamyu is considered as a soloist and has actively spoke out against her being referred to as an Idol or having any association with the word and scene. Perfume and Kyary are both respected in Japan but mainly on the behalf of Nakata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeless 444 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Could they be considered in the same universe as idols. Tight dance routines, not really ever singing live, doing alot of variety shows in Japan. Its hard to call either straight up artists in alot senses. In Japan, unless they proclaim them self as idol or participate in any idol events, they are not idol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochichan 12,341 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Kyary isn't exactly artist but neither is she idol.... IDK about Perfume...I seen them pop up on japanese polls related to idols but then they're not exactly idols............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.M. 752 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 In Japan, unless they proclaim them self as idol or participate in any idol events, they are not idol. Sorry I did edit my post whilst I guess you were replying. Thanks for the replies everyone. I am just trying to get my head around both acts. I think both are amazing. They are both rather confusing and brilliant to a westerners eyes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sorry I did edit my post whilst I guess you were replying. Thanks for the replies everyone. I am just trying to get my head around both acts. I think both are amazing. They are both rather confusing and brilliant to a westerners eyes though. You should probably check out Ami Suzuki, MEG and Coltemonikha because Yasutaka Nakata has produced material for them during various aspects of their careers. Yun*chi is also worth checking out especially if you find Kyary Pamyu Pamyu infectious and enchanting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harro 103 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 they are rather manufactured under the name of yasutaka nakata as he produces their music but they're not idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sane 16,342 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Lol wtf, they're idols guys. They're even listed under idol rankings, rather than artist rankings. There's an official difference between "idol" and "artist" in Japan XD And for the most part they're viewed like normal idols, just with a less stereotypically "idol" type image. Slightly outside of the box idols I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Lol wtf, they're idols guys. They're even listed under idol rankings, rather than artist rankings. There's an official difference between "idol" and "artist" in Japan XD And for the most part they're viewed like normal idols, just with a less stereotypically "idol" type image. Slightly outside of the box idols I guess. They themselves have said they're not idols. I've seen E-Girls listed under idol rankings and they're not idols either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmn 2,622 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 They themselves have said they're not idols. I've seen E-Girls listed under idol rankings and they're not idols either. How in the fuck are E-girls not considered idols I don't get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 How in the fuck are E-girls not considered idols I don't get it They're a vocal and dance group like their brother groups EXILE, Sandaime J Soul Brothers, and Generations. They're all under LDH. Unless you say you're an idol at debut and marketed as such, you're not an idol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezebel 312 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Artists don't do variety shows/non-music programs and idols work to sell an image and solidify themselves as a brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You aren't considered or viewed as an Idol or Idol Group unless you have been actively marketed or promoted as an Idol or Idol Group since your debut. Eyeless has already made the distinction that you have to consider yourself an idol and participate within the idol community or events that surround such a community. Lyrical School, Negicco and ã§ã‚“ã±çµ„.inc are examples of Idol Groups because they've actively been marketed as Idols since their debut but more importantly they each consider themselves idols. Groups like Bright, Happiness, Flower, Dream and E-Girls are performance groups that focus on either vocals or dancing but they aren't considered idols because they've never promoted/marketed themselves as idols and haven't participated in any events associated with the scene. Perfume and Kyary Pamyu Pamyu are both considered to be electronic acts along the lines of Aira Mitsuki and Saori@Destiny and have actively stated in the past that they don't consider themselves to be idols and don't associate themselves with the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sane 16,342 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 They themselves have said they're not idols. I've seen E-Girls listed under idol rankings and they're not idols either. That doesn't change the fact that they're classified as idols. They're going to be classed as idols until they participate in the production of their music, regardless of what they call themselves. That's just how the idol vs artist thing works in Japan. Idol = singer that is produced Artist = singer that produces For example: in Korea Big Bang are labeled as idols, but in Japan they are classified as artists. Same with SNSD. If even one member of the group contributes to the production of the group's music or image even once, they're no longer "idols" in Japan. It's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midna 2,032 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 E-Girls, i can see why they would be considered idols, but if you look at them each individually. NOT IDOL at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 That doesn't change the fact that they're classified as idols. They're going to be classed as idols until they participate in the production of their music, regardless of what they call themselves. That's just how the idol vs artist thing works in Japan. Idol = singer that is produced Artist = singer that produces For example: in Korea Big Bang are labeled as idols, but in Japan they are classified as artists. Same with SNSD. If even one member of the group contributes to the production of the group's music or image even once, they're no longer "idols" in Japan. It's not rocket science. Your definition of both an Idol and Artist are a bit too limiting and simplified because the process is much more nuanced then you are giving it credit for. You are only considered an Idol if you have been promoted and marketed as an idol and doesn't have anything to do with the style of music that you are releasing or the hand that you have in the production or composition. For example, Cutie Pai are a self produced idol-unit that has all of their material written, composed and produced by member Mayu-Chan. She has actively crafted and produced all of their material but she has mentioned that they are an idol group and are marketed as such. Idols are capable of having a hand in production in their material but that doesn't change the fact that they are idols. Perfume and Kyary aren't idols and have never been marketed in such a way. I've already mentioned that idol groups include acts like Morning Musume, Lyrical School, Momoiro Clover Z and Negicco. Do you consider Namie Amuro or Koda Kumi idols?? Because by your definition they are idols because they don't have a hand in the music that is made or produced for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sane 16,342 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Your definition of both an Idol and Artist are a bit too limiting and simplified because the process is much more nuanced then you are giving it credit for. You are only considered an Idol if you have been promoted and marketed as an idol and doesn't have anything to do with the style of music that you are releasing or the hand that you have in the production or composition. For example, Cutie Pai are a self produced idol-unit that has all of their material written, composed and produced by member Mayu-Chan. She has actively crafted and produced all of their material but she has mentioned that they are an idol group and are marketed as such. Idols are capable of having a hand in production in their material but that doesn't change the fact that they are idols. Perfume and Kyary aren't idols and have never been marketed in such a way. I've already mentioned that idol groups include acts like Morning Musume, Lyrical School, Momoiro Clover Z and Negicco. Do you consider Namie Amuro or Koda Kumi idols?? Because by your definition they are idols because they don't have a hand in the music that is made or produced for them. It's not my definition, it's the Japanese music industry's definition. It has nothing to do with what I personally think, it has to do with how the industry is run. If you have a problem, take it up with them or find a different music industry to be interested in. Fuckin' hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuackingDuck 826 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 That doesn't change the fact that they're classified as idols. They're going to be classed as idols until they participate in the production of their music, regardless of what they call themselves. That's just how the idol vs artist thing works in Japan. Idol = singer that is produced Artist = singer that produces For example: in Korea Big Bang are labeled as idols, but in Japan they are classified as artists. Same with SNSD. If even one member of the group contributes to the production of the group's music or image even once, they're no longer "idols" in Japan. It's not rocket science. iirc some je guys have written lyrics. they're all still considered idols tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midna 2,032 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 the Japanese music industry definition isn't consistent though. *looks at the examples* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreTokyo 1,008 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It's not my definition, it's the Japanese music industry's definition. It has nothing to do with what I personally think, it has to do with how the industry is run. If you have a problem, take it up with them or find a different music industry to be interested in. Fuckin' hell Where are you getting your definition for the distinction between an idol and artist in Japan? I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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