[SPOILERS] Review of End Game: The giant plot hole

[RIPHaldir]

So I just saw End Game, and despite the two instances of dudebros booing at sam and captain marvel once it was a great time! The movie was better than I thought it would be and they did a really good job with organizing all the material they had to deal with. I really enjoyed it until it got to the big problem at the end, Steve staying in 1970. It literally makes no sense for his character. After going over the movies description of time travel it makes more sense story wise but not at all character wise. So when 2019 (or whatever present year) Steve goes back to 1970, the 1970 Steve is still trapped in the ice and ends up following the path that occurs throughout the universe? While present steve lives out his perfect life with Peggy? Ignoring how 1970 steve would be confused with trying to find her only to either not find her or see her with himself, it is complete bullshit for Steve's character to do that. Are.You.Telling.Me. Steve does nothing to stop Hydra from continuing to use Bucky as a brainwashed assassin, the murder of Tony's parents at his hands, the near death and forever tragic event that forces tony to near death multiple times, the accident that causes the ostratization of bruce after his accident, the loss of sam's partner, the deaths caused by Loki, the abuse and experimentation of wanda and pietro, the destruction of Sokovia, Frigga's death after Thor comes to Earth and he could warn him about everything, the death of T'challa's father, the deaths of natasha and tony while reversing what thanos did, and so much more all to live a "fairytale" life with Peggy who fucking was married to a soldier before the year 1970? WHAT THE FUCK! I could have ignored the other problems in the plot but that is a giant hole that can not be explained away other than to throw out steve's entire character in order to get Steve removed from being Captain America in a way that goes against what people thought was going to happen to him, ie. him dying fighting Thanos.

[sergel]

Admittedly I haven't followed the whole series but I thought that was an odd thing. Like, wouldn't it just create another paradox?

[Nsfw]

Steve and Bucky are my favorite characters and this was the stupidest ending I’ve ever seen. Fuck Marvel for real

[Alice_]

I don't remember he said anything about coming back to 1970. maybe he came back before the marriage?

 

Like hulk said, the time machine wouldn't change the past. Maybe he did all you mentioned in that alter universe. But the now universe that the avengers are in, won't change.

[kookcarl27]

Afaik, them doing anything in their past doesn't do anything on their future. Things stay as it is even if Steve stayed at 1970 with Peggy.

[konmeister]

I don't remember he said anything about coming back to 1970. maybe he came back before the marriage?

 

Like hulk said, the time machine wouldn't change the past. Maybe he did all you mentioned in that alter universe. But the now universe that the avengers are in, won't change.

 

this..

[konmeister]

Afaik, them doing anything in their past doesn't do anything on their future. Things stay as it is even if Steve stayed at 1970 with Peggy.

 

there 2 Steve on 1970 alter universe, Steve from original universe & trapped in ice Steve

 

then when original Steve get old, he back to original universe

[rheallee]

Future Steve coming back to the past to return the stone so that there won't be alternate reality (where the new gamora come from).

He's living his usual life while the frozen Steve is still going to do whatever he do in all the past movies. So there are 2 Steve after he went back in the past. Just like there are 2 nebula

[Riri]

He didn't go back to 1970 tho, he most probably went to her before she got married and that wouldn't change history at all, the CAP that got trapped into ice will defroze and go through the entire process till that moment where he goes back in time. I don't see a problem with that but rather Loki's story might have changed because he got the tesseract so early in time thanks to Tony and Antman's fiasco.

[MinAi]

Winter Soldier is still the best anyway.

[timpa]

You can tell by the car that drives by Steve returned to the mid to late 40s or early 50s. They always kept secret who Peggy was with after Steve "died". I think it is now supposed to be that it always was Steve.

[McDoodles]

He didn't go back to 1970 tho, he most probably went to her before she got married and that wouldn't change history at all, the CAP that got trapped into ice will defroze and go through the entire process till that moment where he goes back in time. I don't see a problem with that but rather Loki's story might have changed because he got the tesseract so early in time thanks to Tony and Antman's fiasco.

Actually, the loki thing might never happen at all already since steve returned probably before the stones are stolen so the loki tesseract event never happened at all.

[McDoodles]

You can tell by the car that drives by Steve returned to the mid to late 40s or early 50s. They always kept secret who Peggy was with after Steve "died". I think it is now supposed to be that it always was Steve.

Could be. Since peggy is an agent, she could have lied to ice steve and kept the lie due to the fact that the truth regarding the 2 steve thing has been known by her through old steve.

[RIPHaldir]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know there would be two of them, the problem with that is that means steve does nothing to change the past at all besides meeting peggy ( do he csn have his own personal happy ending), while letting all of the deaths and tragedys that he knows about and can stop in the mcu which goes agaisnt who he his character is.  He deserves happiness but him taking it when he could change other things goes against what we know of him, and Im glad the Russo brothers decided to throw away agent 13's romantic subplot and her as a character apparantly.

[Riri]

I know there would be two of them, the problem with that is that means steve does nothing to change the past at all besides meeting peggy ( do he csn have his own personal happy ending), while letting all of the deaths and tragedys that he knows about and can stop in the mcu which goes agaisnt who he his character is.  He deserves happiness but him taking it when he could change other things goes against what we know of him, and Im glad the Russo brothers decided to throw away agent 13's romantic subplot and her as a character apparantly.

It's against the laws to change the past tho. When they traveled in the past they didn't change anything because in the end they returned the stones so Cap wouldn't have changed the tragedies either.

[Gifted]

So I just saw End Game, and despite the two instances of dudebros booing at sam and captain marvel once it was a great time! The movie was better than I thought it would be and they did a really good job with organizing all the material they had to deal with. I really enjoyed it until it got to the big problem at the end, Steve staying in 1970. It literally makes no sense for his character. After going over the movies description of time travel it makes more sense story wise but not at all character wise. So when 2019 (or whatever present year) Steve goes back to 1970, the 1970 Steve is still trapped in the ice and ends up following the path that occurs throughout the universe? While present steve lives out his perfect life with Peggy? Ignoring how 1970 steve would be confused with trying to find her only to either not find her or see her with himself, it is complete bullshit for Steve's character to do that. Are.You.Telling.Me. Steve does nothing to stop Hydra from continuing to use Bucky as a brainwashed assassin, the murder of Tony's parents at his hands, the near death and forever tragic event that forces tony to near death multiple times, the accident that causes the ostratization of bruce after his accident, the loss of sam's partner, the deaths caused by Loki, the abuse and experimentation of wanda and pietro, the destruction of Sokovia, Frigga's death after Thor comes to Earth and he could warn him about everything, the death of T'challa's father, the deaths of natasha and tony while reversing what thanos did, and so much more all to live a "fairytale" life with Peggy who fucking was married to a soldier before the year 1970? WHAT THE FUCK! I could have ignored the other problems in the plot but that is a giant hole that can not be explained away other than to throw out steve's entire character in order to get Steve removed from being Captain America in a way that goes against what people thought was going to happen to him, ie. him dying fighting Thanos.

 

There's a theory that Steve was the soldier Peggy married.

[Gifted]

It's against the laws to change the past tho. When they traveled in the past they didn't change anything because in the end they returned the stones so Cap wouldn't have changed the tragedies either.

 

Cap can change the tragedies , but he just won't be in the same timeline of the MCU we watched. Same for if the avengers didn't bring back the stones , the people in the timeline they took the stone from would have a different outcome , they wouldn't have the timeline of our MCU.

[LeeTaeyongsWife]

Lmao my stucky shipping ass was triggered so bad but then I read a theory saying Cap was Peggy's husband* shdg my TYPO ASS the whole time and him going back completed the loop and that's like cute as FUCK... Anyway I knew stucky was never gonna happen, I was so fucking pissed about it but at the end it was what Steve wanted, and I love Steve. At least Peggy is a fucking QUEEN and I loved Steggy a lot in TFA. Stucky were still fucking robbed but I have fix it fanfics for that and they are canon in my HEART!

 

Also ngl I'm way too sad over [other things] that happened in the movie, I'm just glad he isn't dead at this point.

[Gifted]

Actually, the loki thing might never happen at all already since steve returned probably before the stones are stolen so the loki tesseract event never happened at all.

 

When loki stole the tesseract and escaped , that timeline branched off , it doesn't follow our MCU timeline no more. You can go back in time and change things , but you will just branch off into another timeline and not the timeline you time traveled from if the change wasn't minor (like when loki stole the tesseract and escaped). The only time travel shit in the movie that confused me was when Old Steve was sitting on that bench , because I miss a dialogue that explains that Old Steve time traveled back , but he just appeared on the bench instead of that time travel contraption. 

 

[Riri]

Actually, the loki thing might never happen at all already since steve returned probably before the stones are stolen so the loki tesseract event never happened at all.

Not really because they stole the tesseract from 1970 not 2012, Loki could've still taken the tesseract when Tony dropped it in 2012 nevertheless which creates the true plot hole and an alternate universe.

Also they had to return the stones to the correspective time, not before they stole them otherwise there'd be 2 stones of the same kind in an universe. 

[Gene_e]

Black Widow... They did her so dirty. Shame on you Russo brothers.

[Mugifrogie]

When they stole the stone, they alternate reality happened and will still happen if they didn't put it back. So the little mess they made can be fixed as the stones keep the reality into one. So when Steve go to the past, it didn't create another altered reality and thus the loop happen, the steggy thing is the reality.

The concept of it is about retiring soldier. Steve know what happened but there can be a consequence to change the timeline like what was talked when they create the plan, more likely to happen because the infinity stones had been put back to its place. Steve had seen the future and it's fine. Changed the past could make it possibly worse. So he let it be.

Also, they never explain who Peggy married with. So it fits to the story.

 

But they did dirty to Natasha and Bruce. Hulk didn't even smash or had rematch with Thanos. And Natasha didn't have funeral scene. Her sacrifice is one of the key.

[konmeister]

But they did dirty to Natasha and Bruce. Hulk didn't even smash or had rematch with Thanos. And Natasha didn't have funeral scene. Her sacrifice is one of the key.