DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 The forum is broken, so each page is now going to be a new thread, LOL. That's fine, i am sure Korea may be doing better at promoting tour, but also having tour along with having more MVs would have been great as well if only they had tour internationally, but little a bit. I know J-Pop is suffering from view issues when they try to litsen to the J-Pop songs on MVs and they bother about on why they aren't going to my country for an tour, that's what they thought. Japanese music isn't as dependent on YouTube views, but on actual sales, like pretty much every other industry in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtree 2,740 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 They don't have to because they can tour extensively in Japan. Korean acts can't tour Korea because there is only Seoul. If you really want to see a Japanese act, go to Japan. Seeing a Japanese act in your home country and in Japan are two totally different things. It's like a heightened experience in Japan. Part of this is because they don't have to water down the show. The female acts have been gaining traction internationally for years. Perfume, Kyary, BABYMETAL, CHAI, tricot... Looking at the history of Japanese music in the West, it's not the big acts that have gained attention. It's the smaller, more niche acts. It's the acts like Yellow Magic Orchestra and Cornelius. Korean acts do actually start to have national tour so they are getting there. Good for them, though I feel like Japan government can promote these girls more because they have the potential to gain more global popularity. Also I think Perfume is more of a performer than creator, they depend a lot on the team behind them (although I have to admit that many KPop girlgroups are the same). Kyary was almost there but I think the ship has sailed. I don't know what will happened to BABYMETAL after the recent personnel change, CHAI & tricot let's see where they are in two years. I think someday (probably not that far) the arrogance of thinking that Japan music market is big enough to sustain themselves will collapse. But I believe the artists will be resilient enough to pick themselves up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 Korean acts do actually start to have national tour so they are getting there. Good for them, though I feel like Japan government can promote these girls more because they have the potential to gain more global popularity. Also I think Perfume is more of a performer than creator, they depend a lot on the team behind them (although I have to admit that many KPop girlgroups are the same). Kyary was almost there but I think the ship has sailed. I don't know what will happened to BABYMETAL after the recent personnel change, CHAI & tricot let's see where they are in two years. I think someday (probably not that far) the arrogance of thinking that Japan music market is big enough to sustain themselves will collapse. But I believe the artists will be resilient enough to pick themselves up again. I wouldn't count on the Japanese government to promote anything. On Arama, we recently had a discussion about what would happen to the market if the gimmicks were stopped. The market would fall, maybe to #3. But what we have been seeing for the past few years is that the rising stars are in digital, not physical. The question is if these rising stars, people like Yonezu Kenshi, Aimyon, back number, and Hoshino Gen, were pushed overseas, would the world care, since their music is out of step with current trends worldwide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami3chan 7,210 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 sis Onehallyu doesn't want you to keep up with this topic lol That's fine, i am sure Korea may be doing better at promoting tour, but also having tour along with having more MVs would have been great as well if only they had tour internationally, but little a bit. I know J-Pop is suffering from view issues when they try to litsen to the J-Pop songs on MVs and they bother about on why they aren't going to my country for an tour, that's what they thought. hi hotsushi. many people treat Youtube as the main platform especially the younger generation of fans, imagine a fan of an Arab singer wondering why that singer only works in Arab countries and doesn't do tours in my country?! or international Bollywood fans, i mean this is not just about Jpop there are many entertainment acts/artists that focus more on the domestic market than the international market, i feel like todays generation of young fans want everything to knock their door like a pizza delivery and want everything to be easily accessible although we have "Google" already and tons of Media platforms other than Youtube, some fans just don't like to put efforts into it or don't have passion they just want everything to be ready like fast food and wants subs on everything, i mean in the 90s we didn't even have Youtube some of my uncles would wait for weeks or months for foreign dealers who will bring music tapes or Film cassettes which were not available in my country and when the digital age came everything became a lot more easily accessible and we got most of it illegally for free. Even before Japan starting expanding J-pop to the international market, an J-pop wasn't well known to the world at the time when J-Pop was really huge in their own domestic way in pre/late-2000s, when J-pop record labels have decided to expand its music market to the intenational. Japan still remains as the largest physical market, here is the data on what on how Japan rely on digital and physical sales as said by IFPI annual reports from 2017: Physical: 72% Digital: 21% This is kind of an suprising that i haven't seen like this and that Japan is still the king of Physical musics. and to add on that "Izone" which is a Kpop/Jpop group although they were created on a Korean survival Program "Produce 48" their Japanese debut outsold their Korean debut and their recent Korean comeback also couldn't beat their Japanese debut physical sales,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 sis Onehallyu doesn't want you to keep up with this topic lol hi hotsushi. many people treat Youtube as the main platform especially the younger generation of fans, imagine a fan of an Arab singer wondering why that singer only works in Arab countries and doesn't do tours in my country?! or international Bollywood fans, i mean this is not just about Jpop there are many entertainment acts/artists that focus more on the domestic market than the international market, i feel like todays generation of young fans want everything to knock their door like a pizza delivery and want everything to be easily accessible although we have "Google" already and tons of Media platforms other than Youtube, some fans just don't like to put efforts into it or don't have passion they just want everything to be ready like fast food and wants subs on everything, i mean in the 90s we didn't even have Youtube some of my uncles would wait for weeks or months for foreign dealers who will bring music tapes or Film cassettes which were not available in my country and when the digital age came everything became a lot more easily accessible and we got most of it illegally for free. and to add on that "Izone" which is a Kpop/Jpop group although they were created on a Korean survival Program "Produce 48" their Japanese debut outsold their Korean debut and their recent Korean comeback also couldn't beat their Japanese debut physical sales,. The days of leaving your computer on for a week so that an album could download on Limewire... The days of watching 30 second video clips in 56k on Windows Media Player... I can stream Kohaku live now from multiple sources! I couldn't imagine doing this at the beginning of the decade! Things have definitely improved! And I do see a lack of passion. If you're not willing to work for something, how passionate are you? If you're only passionate because it's super readily available, how passionate are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami3chan 7,210 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The days of leaving your computer on for a week so that an album could download on Limewire... The days of watching 30 second video clips in 56k on Windows Media Player... I can't stream Kohaku live now from multiple sources! This have definitely improved! and i thought Limewire was the big thing back then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotham 646 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 back to the original thread: The thing about Jpop or Japanese music fandom, is that the scene and fans are so diverse that Japanese music fans can stan vastly different things. It's unlike Kpop where 90% of international Kpop fans are into idol pop then a majority of them are into BTS, Black Pink and Twice. For International Japanese music fans, you have fans who are into Jrock, idol such as 46/48 & Johnny, Visual Kei, Alternative rock idols, folk rock bands, vocaloid, anisong, R&B singers, etc. The distribution of international Japanese music fans are more spread-out across the various genres and when you have a Discord chat with everyone, there aren't going to be much similar topics like the Kpop fans. If the chat is spammed with lets say AKB48 news and performances when they have a new single, do you think a GazettE fan will care? After a while, if the GazettE fan doesn't see any fellow Visual Kei fan posting stuff on the discord he is just going to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinpr9 34 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I wouldn't count on the Japanese government to promote anything. On Arama, we recently had a discussion about what would happen to the market if the gimmicks were stopped. The market would fall, maybe to #3. But what we have been seeing for the past few years is that the rising stars are in digital, not physical. The question is if these rising stars, people like Yonezu Kenshi, Aimyon, back number, and Hoshino Gen, were pushed overseas, would the world care, since their music is out of step with current trends worldwide? That's what I'm concerned about. Without gimmicks, the J-music industry is gonna fall a lot. I don't know how big the revenue gap is between UK/Germany and Japan since the 2017 & 2018 numbers are not displayed. I also saw someone saying on Arama that he had no idea why the Namie's huge greatest hits sales didn't even affect the industry in 2017, when there's a 3% decline and the physicals dropped by 6%. Meanwhile 2018, when there was no million-selling albums, was able to generate 3.4% growth due to huge increase in streaming revenue and decent increase in physicals (just 2.3%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 back to the original thread: The thing about Jpop or Japanese music fandom, is that the scene and fans are so diverse that Japanese music fans can stan vastly different things. It's unlike Kpop where 90% of international Kpop fans are into idol pop then a majority of them are into BTS, Black Pink and Twice. For International Japanese music fans, you have fans who are into Jrock, idol such as 46/48 & Johnny, Visual Kei, Alternative rock idols, folk rock bands, vocaloid, anisong, R&B singers, etc. The distribution of international Japanese music fans are more spread-out across the various genres and when you have a Discord chat with everyone, there aren't going to be much similar topics like the Kpop fans. If the chat is spammed with lets say AKB48 news and performances when they have a new single, do you think a GazettE fan will care? After a while, if the GazettE fan doesn't see any fellow Visual Kei fan posting stuff on the discord he is just going to leave. On the Arama Discord, the main talk is about the actual industry rather than specifc acts, which is interesting. I feel like more and more people are getting to the behind the scenes stuff. That's what I'm concerned about. Without gimmicks, the J-music industry is gonna fall a lot. I don't know how big the revenue gap is between UK/Germany and Japan since the 2017 & 2018 numbers are not displayed. I also saw someone saying on Arama that he had no idea why the Namie's huge greatest hits sales didn't even affect the industry in 2017, when there's a 3% decline and the physicals dropped by 6%. Meanwhile 2018, when there was no million-selling albums, was able to generate 3.4% growth due to huge increase in streaming revenue and decent increase in physicals (just 2.3%). It's odd. Me and other also question why "Finally" wasn't listed in the top albums of 2017 or 2018 when it had the numbers to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinpr9 34 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 It's odd. Me and other also question why "Finally" wasn't listed in the top albums of 2017 or 2018 when it had the numbers to do it. Do you think IFPI ignored the data from the Japanese market? I'm not sure whether I take IFPI's data for granted. Or maybe the Japanese numbers do not make sense at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 Do you think IFPI ignored the data from the Japanese market? I'm not sure whether I take IFPI's data for granted. Or maybe the Japanese numbers do not make sense at all? Someone commented that this isn't the first time that the IFPI ignored success in the Japanese market that is on par with success in the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakurahanabira 6,634 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The days of leaving your computer on for a week so that an album could download on Limewire... The days of watching 30 second video clips in 56k on Windows Media Player... I can stream Kohaku live now from multiple sources! I couldn't imagine doing this at the beginning of the decade! Things have definitely improved! And I do see a lack of passion. If you're not willing to work for something, how passionate are you? If you're only passionate because it's super readily available, how passionate are you? forget Windows Media Player, anyone remember Realplayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsushi-kun 42 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I do believe that IFPI is still available for those who want to know about it, but they also tend to ignore if their digital sales being grown longer, since digital sales is slowth in its growth. Hence Japan are having a hard time to start their digital music instead just keeping their music for physical sales. I also happend to notice about on how Japan keeps using the outdated stuff that not only includes CDs for physical sales, but also flip-phones, tax payer and others. You can read more article about it: https://www.techinasia.com/list-outdated-things-still-popular-in-japan I am so disappointed by this revelation, even though new technology is still embraced in Japan, they still keep their outdated stuff as an part of their legacy they innovated a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 forget Windows Media Player, anyone remember Realplayer? Yes. Basically the quality of the samples would be like the ones here: http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/Michico/discography/SICL-25 I don't know why Sony kept these crap samples when they could've uploaded better ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsushi-kun 42 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Yes. Basically the quality of the samples would be like the ones here: http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/Michico/discography/SICL-25 I don't know why Sony kept these crap samples when they could've uploaded better ones. I remember using Winamp too, but i got scared by the creppy and unsetting visualization to the point i don't want to look at it anymore. Please do not link it the video of visualization, i will get scared by this you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami3chan 7,210 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I do believe that IFPI is still available for those who want to know about it, but they also tend to ignore if their digital sales being grown longer, since digital sales is slowth in its growth. Hence Japan are having a hard time to start their digital music instead just keeping their music for physical sales. I also happend to notice about on how Japan keeps using the outdated stuff that not only includes CDs for physical sales, but also flip-phones, tax payer and others. You can read more article about it: https://www.techinasia.com/list-outdated-things-still-popular-in-japan I am so disappointed by this revelation, even though new technology is still embraced in Japan, they still keep their outdated stuff as an part of their legacy they innovated a long time ago. digitals are always cheaper than physical CDs tapes etc,.. they earn more money out of physical CDs, you can be disappointed and so other international kpop fans but again i rather want jpop industry to stay the same there's no need to follow every new trend there are people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks etc,.. just like the anime fans who like collecting physical manga books and anime character figures. comparing digital sales to physical sales is like comparing on screen read only manga to physical manga books, although there's some japanese artists that have digital releases but you want them all to focus on digital stuff and i strongly disagree with that, not everything is about digitals my friend and again there's many people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks/manga/anime character figures etc,.. and you want to take that away from them! you're just being entitled and only seem to care about the new generation of i-fans, Jpop has its own culture i like to walk in the street looking at all displayed CDs/photobooks/manga when i am passing by its just feels better compared to looking at them displayed on a screen, of course we play digital music on our phones but again there's many people who like collecting CDs,. its can also be part of fan service i mean a digital album cover can never look as good as a physical album cover that you can hold in your hand and flip it around its gives the feeling of actually owning something. your other argument seems to be that you want them to move on from old-school stuff and again i disagree on that, sometimes keeping old traditions is what keeps something to stay original or unique, kpop stans often say akb48 outfits are bad and outdated but thats what unique about akb and the akb fans love that, i don't know why outsiders want everything to be modern and westernized like Kpop and Kpop exists for them and yet its not enough for them although they can barely afford anything or support their favorite artists financially, they just keep asking for things like entitled kids (sorry for the language) i rather don't want this type of fans to invade Jpop they should just stay in Kpop communities, i mean not everybody loves Burger King and McDonald a lot of people still prefer expensive food, also as another user mentioned above for International Japanese music fans you have fans who are into Jrock, idol groups, rock idols, folk rock bands, vocaloid, anisong, R&B singers, etc.. and each fanbase of a specific genre tend to have their own hub like 46g and 48g fandoms have their own hubs while J-rock fandoms have their own hubs,. there's literally no point of having different cultures/industries if you want them all to be the same, whats the fun if everyone sounds the same and looks the same and feels the same? there's no fun in that, having a diversity in the music industry and the entertainment industry in general is what makes things fun and interesting even when its comes to marketing and promotions as well as fan service,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotsushi-kun 42 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 digitals are always cheaper than physical CDs tapes etc,.. they earn more money out of physical CDs, you can be disappointed and so other international kpop fans but again i rather want jpop industry to stay the same there's no need to follow every new trend there are people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks etc,.. just like the anime fans who like collecting physical manga books and anime character figures. comparing digital sales to physical sales is like comparing on screen read only manga to physical manga books, although there's some japanese artists that have digital releases but you want them all to focus on digital stuff and i strongly disagree with that, not everything is about digitals my friend and again there's many people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks/manga/anime character figures etc,.. and you want to take that away from them! you're just being entitled and only seem to care about the new generation of i-fans, Jpop has its own culture i like to walk in the street looking at all displayed CDs/photobooks/manga when i am passing by its just feels better compared to looking at them displayed on a screen, of course we play digital music on our phones but again there's many people who like collecting CDs,. its can also be part of fan service i mean a digital album cover can never look as good as a physical album cover that you can hold in your hand and flip it around its gives the feeling of actually owning something. your other argument seems to be that you want them to move on from old-school stuff and again i disagree on that, sometimes keeping old traditions is what keeps something to stay original or unique, kpop stans often say akb48 outfits are bad and outdated but thats what unique about akb and the akb fans love that, i don't know why outsiders want everything to be modern and westernized like Kpop Kpop exists for them and yet its not enough for them although they can barely afford anything or support their favorite artists financially, they just keep asking for things like entitled kids (sorry for the language) i rather don't want this type of fans to invade Jpop they should just stay in Kpop communities, i mean not everybody loves Burger King and McDonald a lot of people still prefer expensive food, also as another user mentioned above for International Japanese music fans you have fans who are into Jrock, idol groups, rock idols, folk rock bands, vocaloid, anisong, R&B singers, etc.. and each fanbase of a specific genre tend to have their own hub like 46g and 48g fandoms have their own hubs while J-rock fandoms have their own hubs,. there's literally no point of having different cultures/industries if you want them all to be the same, whats the fun if everyone sounds the same and looks the same and feels the same? there's no fun in that, having a diversity in the music industry and the entertainment in general is makes things fun and interesting even when its comes to marketing and promotions as well as fan service,. Okay, i agree with that. But this is not an argument, this is just my thought about the current state of J-Pop fandom, that's why i thought about it. I am just making this up, just wanting you guys to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocumentaLy 6,033 Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 digitals are always cheaper than physical CDs tapes etc,.. they earn more money out of physical CDs, you can be disappointed and so other international kpop fans but again i rather want jpop industry to stay the same there's no need to follow every new trend there are people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks etc,.. just like the anime fans who like collecting physical manga books and anime character figures. comparing digital sales to physical sales is like comparing on screen read only manga to physical manga books, although there's some japanese artists that have digital releases but you want them all to focus on digital stuff and i strongly disagree with that, not everything is about digitals my friend and again there's many people who like collecting physical CDs/photobooks/manga/anime character figures etc,.. and you want to take that away from them! you're just being entitled and only seem to care about the new generation of i-fans, Jpop has its own culture i like to walk in the street looking at all displayed CDs/photobooks/manga when i am passing by its just feels better compared to looking at them displayed on a screen, of course we play digital music on our phones but again there's many people who like collecting CDs,. its can also be part of fan service i mean a digital album cover can never look as good as a physical album cover that you can hold in your hand and flip it around its gives the feeling of actually owning something. your other argument seems to be that you want them to move on from old-school stuff and again i disagree on that, sometimes keeping old traditions is what keeps something to stay original or unique, kpop stans often say akb48 outfits are bad and outdated but thats what unique about akb and the akb fans love that, i don't know why outsiders want everything to be modern and westernized like Kpop and Kpop exists for them and yet its not enough for them although they can barely afford anything or support their favorite artists financially, they just keep asking for things like entitled kids (sorry for the language) i rather don't want this type of fans to invade Jpop they should just stay in Kpop communities, i mean not everybody loves Burger King and McDonald a lot of people still prefer expensive food, also as another user mentioned above for International Japanese music fans you have fans who are into Jrock, idol groups, rock idols, folk rock bands, vocaloid, anisong, R&B singers, etc.. and each fanbase of a specific genre tend to have their own hub like 46g and 48g fandoms have their own hubs while J-rock fandoms have their own hubs,. there's literally no point of having different cultures/industries if you want them all to be the same, whats the fun if everyone sounds the same and looks the same and feels the same? there's no fun in that, having a diversity in the music industry and the entertainment industry in general is what makes things fun and interesting even when its comes to marketing and promotions as well as fan service,. Speaking of digital, it's funny how the other side never talks about the acts that do well digitally, that are actually having public hits in Japan, the acts like Yonezu Kenshi, Hoshino Gen, Aimyon, and back number, and instead just focus on idols, who have a more niche audience, but sell a lot physically. I wish people would stop trying to make Japanese music change to be just like the rest of the world. Go listen to something else if you want that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami3chan 7,210 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Speaking of digital, it's funny how the other side never talks about the acts that do well digitally, that are actually having public hits in Japan, the acts like Yonezu Kenshi, Hoshino Gen, Aimyon, and back number, and instead just focus on idols, who have a more niche audience, but sell a lot physically. I wish people would stop trying to make Japanese music change to be just like the rest of the world. Go listen to something else if you want that! basically, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami3chan 7,210 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Okay, i agree with that. But this is not an argument, this is just my thought about the current state of J-Pop fandom, that's why i thought about it. I am just making this up, just wanting you guys to know. but you didn't provide anything new as we already know what you're trying to let as know!, and not every Japanese act relies on dedicated fandoms there are many Japanese acts that aim to get more public recognition while some still tends to capitalize on fandoms like the AKB48 franchise, and since the idol franchise like AKB48 are more known to the Kpop community they tend to think that the likes of AKB48 represent Jpop in general and thats just stereotyping because Jpop and Japanese Music in general is much bigger than AKB48 because AKB48 is just a tiny part in one of the biggest Music industries in the world,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinpr9 34 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 but you didn't provide anything new as we already know what you're trying to let as know!, and not every Japanese act relies on dedicated fandoms there are many Japanese acts that aim to get more public recognition while some still tends to capitalize on fandoms like the AKB48 franchise, and since the idol franchise like AKB48 are more known to the Kpop community they tend to think that the likes of AKB48 represent Jpop in general and thats just stereotyping because Jpop and Japanese Music in general is much bigger than AKB48 because AKB48 is just a tiny part in one of the biggest Music industries in the world,. J-music is not just idols. The only idols I put in my J-music playlist are Perfume and Babymetal. However my concern is that the large portion of the industry revenue is come from those idol gimmicky sales. Imagine one day the industry stops counting the handshake tickets and multiple copies from those idols, do you think the industry is gonna stay healthy? By looking at the 2017 numbers, J-music industry would suffer very hard without Namie's retirement. I'm glad that Namie was the savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blank_stare 2,217 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 All these talks again? Really Jpop is fairing much better than a year or two ago. Anyways Hotsushi-Kim sounds like mdo7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blank_stare 2,217 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 These talks again? hotsushi Kun sounds like mdo7 tbh. Is he back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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