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Regarding Recent Events on OH



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#1 Pirine

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:40 AM

So I think things were a little too heated, and we handled things unprofessionally before. I would like to clarify somethings, and hopefully calm things down a little bit.
 
First of all, on behalf of all the mods, I'd like to make a formal statement. Above all, we try to make OH a place where people of all backgrounds feel comfortable in posting. The last thing we actually want is for a group to feel ostracized and attacked. Comments made by some on staff that may have come across as implying homosexuality or any other sexual orientation, being creepy in nature or otherwise unwelcome, were not meant to be read that way and could have been constructed better. Things are quickly said in the heat of the moment that are later regretted and should not have happened that way.
 
We're all humans first before we are mods and having such hurtful and heavy accusations thrown at you never feels good. On top of that people personally insulting us and digging into our personal lives, we got defensive. But it should have been handled with more tact.
 
Now onto the actual heart of the matter. Discussing the sexuality of minors. We as a team decided to ban the discussion of sexuality or romantic endeavors in any capacity throughout the forum. Be it gay, straight, innocent puppy love, or sexual. None of it will be allowed. Our reasoning for which being that there just just shouldn't be such invasive speculation into minors personal lives. It doesn't matter if everything discussed is technically public knowledge or not, we just believe that people under the age should be afforded a decent amount of personal privacy on our site.

 
We don't think this is a problem related only to that thread, as it really has nothing to do with lgbtq issues at all in our eyes, just the basic privacy of minors. It was just the thread which was brought to our attention first. With that being said this isn't meant to stifle peoples freedom of speech or right to talk about their own issues. You are free to talk about your own experiences regarding sexuality and romance as a minor, as they are your own to share.

 

As such it should be clearly stated no threads involving minors associated with romance will be allowed. Shipping threads fall under this category and any shipping thread with a minor in it must be clearly stated to be non-romantic or it will be removed until they're of age.
 
As for the accusations of us being homophobic, there just isn't much for me to say. I know I'm not, I'm sure the other mods aren't as well. But it seems like no matter what we say on the issue were just told were wrong cause XYZ. It's like arguing against a brick wall, and nothing we say will get through, so you are free to think what you like.
 
We try to hear your complaints, and I know we're all constantly evolving and trying to become better mods. So if you think were doing something incorrect, let us know (preferably politely). We know we're not perfect and we fuck up sometimes. But outright attacking us is just going to result in a net negative for both parties.
 
The intent of this rule change is and never was to target specific groups or discriminate. And it saddens me that its been misconstrued this way. I hope this was able to clear things up some, but if there's anything you would like to discuss please do voice your opinion in a respectful manner and we will try our best to explain.

 

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#2 ByulHarangBona

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

It's nice to see that you guys were able to admit that you all did behaved unprofessionally. To me, while you staffs are indeed volunteers, you guys also are sort of like customer service. No matter how heated the discussion get, one should still remain civilised. After all, staffs are supposed to be mature.

It was kinda disheartening to see insults being flinged on both sides, instead of trying to hear each other views's properly.

I do have a few questions, so please bear with me.

1) There were also questions raised in that thread regarding the existence of "The Bar". Is it possible to remove that section? There are some really vile and dark stuffs being mentioned in there and from time to time, there are talks of waiting a few years for some minors. That's really make me feel disgusted.

2) "Shipping threads fall under this category and any shipping thread with a minor in it must be clearly stated to be non-romantic or it will be removed until they're of age.". That's apply to current existing threads too right?

Thanks for taking your time to read this
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#3 itouch

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:54 AM

I feel like I missed some huge OH drama while I was sleeping.
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#4 coval

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:57 AM (Edited by depression, 17 March 2019 - 11:59 AM.)

welp there goes my txt x itzy threads 
tenor.gif?itemid=7748764
 
Sad how ugly this turned on  both sides
I feel for the thread in the sense no one deserves to be called a pedophile for discussing underage idols preferences. Especially since the majority of people who have a problem with these discussions aren't even regular posters
But mods too were just responding to reports made by users who felt uncomfortable & to pirine especially i hope you know no one actually thinks you're a homophobe or that being pan "doesn't count". Ye worded your statements badly and fueled the fire. But then again personal insults shouldn't be tolerated.
tl;dr everyone made a mess
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#5 pryzilla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:59 AM

*POPULAR

This is a poor statement that addresses nothing of the substance of people's critique. Virtually every point that was made is addressed generically ("it was handled badly") or defensively ("we were misconstrued/misunderstood", "it came across as"), rather than engaging with the very logical points that people were making about:

 

1) Internalized homophobia and general historical ignorance about the tropes wielded against LGBTQ people.

 

2) Your defensiveness has clearly not abated. There is virtually no active language in this statement; everything is passive. "Things were misunderstood," "mistakes may have been made," "could have been constructed better." This is not just a PR 101 failure; it's a basic apology failure. It's not an apology if you don't actually understand what you've done wrong.

 

3) The behavior of the mod team, including their dog whistle comments and attempt to use their personal sexuality as a shield, made clear that it is about the lgbt thread.

 

4) The mods still struggle to understand the difference between attack and valid critique. Users using strong language or criticizing the mods' personal behavior is still not the same as an attack.

 

5) Please learn the basics of communication. It's a two-way street, and the onus isn't just on the receiver to hear the message. The mods also need to realize that if people were "misinterpreting" their words, perhaps their words were poorly phrased or the ideas themselves were garbage.

 

Embarrassing and sad. Goodbye.


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#6 Pirine

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:01 PM

It's nice to see that you guys were able to admit that you all did behaved unprofessionally. To me, while you staffs are indeed volunteers, you guys also are sort of like customer service. No matter how heated the discussion get, one should still remain civilised. After all, staffs are supposed to be mature.

It was kinda disheartening to see insults being flinged on both sides, instead of trying to hear each other views's properly.

I do have a few questions, so please bear with me.

1) There were also questions raised in that thread regarding the existence of "The Bar". Is it possible to remove that section? There are some really vile and dark stuffs being mentioned in there and from time to time, there are talks of waiting a few years for some minors. That's really make me feel disgusted.

2) "Shipping threads fall under this category and any shipping thread with a minor in it must be clearly stated to be non-romantic or it will be removed until they're of age.". That's apply to current existing threads too right?

Thanks for taking your time to read this

We do talk about The Bar often and what changes should be made to it. Closing it is something we haven't decided would be a beneficial as of yet, but it can certainly be brought up again.

 

And yes it does apply to current shipping threads with minors in it, they must be changed to explicitly state being non romantic or will be removed until the idol comes of age.


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#7 tide

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:02 PM

 

Our reasoning for which being that there just just shouldn't be such invasive speculation into minors personal lives. It doesn't matter if everything discussed is technically public knowledge or not, we just believe that people under the age should be afforded a decent amount of personal privacy on our site.

 

does that mean we won't be able to discuss if idols that are minors have gotten ps


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#8 ♥Hormones♥

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:03 PM

Ok but can you or someone from the staff remove that

"Minors should be left out of your speculations please and thank you~"

from this thread

https://onehallyu.co...-think-are-gay/

 

Since you addressed it here, because it feels so offensive putting that here making it feel like homosexuality and pedophilia have a connection. We now know all orientations are banned to be talked if their minors. Thank you Pirine :) 


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#9 ♥Hormones♥

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:05 PM

Also DarkChao should apologize for talking that way it was just one dog whistle of homophobia after another.


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#10 StarShapedGummy

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:06 PM

please tell me this means that you are close the 18+ section because it needs to be closed


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#11 Nimz

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:06 PM

So they send a scapegoat instead of the people who were actually part of it to clarify. Nice.


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#12 burntgucci

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:07 PM (Edited by burntgucci, 17 March 2019 - 12:08 PM.)

This is a poor statement that addresses nothing of the substance of people's critique. Virtually every point that was made is addressed generically ("it was handled badly") or defensively ("we were misconstrued/misunderstood", "it came across as"), rather than engaging with the very logical points that people were making about:

 

1) Internalized homophobia and general historical ignorance about the tropes wielded against LGBTQ people.

 

2) Your defensiveness has clearly not abated. There is virtually no active language in this statement; everything is passive. "Things were misunderstood," "mistakes may have been made," "could have been constructed better." This is not just a PR 101 failure; it's a basic apology failure. It's not an apology if you don't actually understand what you've done wrong.

 

3) The behavior of the mod team, including their dog whistle comments and attempt to use their personal sexuality as a shield, made clear that it is about the lgbt thread.

 

4) The mods still struggle to understand the difference between attack and valid critique. Users using strong language or criticizing the mods' personal behavior is still not the same as an attack.

 

5) Please learn the basics of communication. It's a two-way street, and the onus isn't just on the receiver to hear the message. The mods also need to realize that if people were "misinterpreting" their words, perhaps their words were poorly phrased or the ideas themselves were garbage.

 

Embarrassing and sad. Goodbye.

You snapped sis

 

Also in Darkchao45's post in the thread, he literally said that he fundamentally disagrees with the thread ("I explained my personal opinion on this thread's existence but I don't impose that onto you"). Surely, if Darkchao45 was not homophobic, he would have a problem with anyone's sexuality being discussed, whether in a heterosexual manner or not? Hopefully in the future he polices the 18+ section and the OTP section, as clearly that would be the fair thing to do, correct? smile.png

 

Also the way Darkchao spoke was frankly homophobic, I and many others expect an apology lmao


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#13 Pirine

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:10 PM

So they send a scapegoat instead of the people who were actually part of it to clarify. Nice.

I was the one who technically started it, cause i was the one who posted in the thread first. 

 

 

Also DarkChao should apologize for talking that way it was just one dog whistle of homophobia after another.

 

I believe he plans on posting something whenever he gets online next.


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#14 abra

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:10 PM

I can see where the team is coming from but I believe you handled the communication really poorly. As a mod/admin team, your number one priority should be to have clear and open communication with the members of the forum. This includes being able to listen to their opinions, admit that you've made mistakes and change course.

 

Now as for the actual issue/rule change, I don't think it's necessary. Just make sure that people are respectful and not to invasive when discussing the sexuality of minors (I know sometimes fans can get a bit... enthusiastic and delusional).


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#15 HituKa

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:11 PM

I feel like I missed some huge OH drama while I was sleeping.


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#16 The 9th Serpent

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:11 PM (Edited by The 9th Serpent, 17 March 2019 - 12:14 PM.)


Also DarkChao should apologize for talking that way it was just one dog whistle of homophobia after another.

So they send a scapegoat instead of the people who were actually part of it to clarify. Nice.

:imstupid:

Edit: didn't see this being answered already

Edit2: Regardless, homophobia shouldn't be used as a defense mechanism imo
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#17 shineestan

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:14 PM

a bit too late and not enough imo. 

 

This is a poor statement that addresses nothing of the substance of people's critique. Virtually every point that was made is addressed generically ("it was handled badly") or defensively ("we were misconstrued/misunderstood", "it came across as"), rather than engaging with the very logical points that people were making about:

 

1) Internalized homophobia and general historical ignorance about the tropes wielded against LGBTQ people.

 

2) Your defensiveness has clearly not abated. There is virtually no active language in this statement; everything is passive. "Things were misunderstood," "mistakes may have been made," "could have been constructed better." This is not just a PR 101 failure; it's a basic apology failure. It's not an apology if you don't actually understand what you've done wrong.

 

3) The behavior of the mod team, including their dog whistle comments and attempt to use their personal sexuality as a shield, made clear that it is about the lgbt thread.

 

4) The mods still struggle to understand the difference between attack and valid critique. Users using strong language or criticizing the mods' personal behavior is still not the same as an attack.

 

5) Please learn the basics of communication. It's a two-way street, and the onus isn't just on the receiver to hear the message. The mods also need to realize that if people were "misinterpreting" their words, perhaps their words were poorly phrased or the ideas themselves were garbage.

 

Embarrassing and sad. Goodbye.

this^^^^

A lot of stuff was said and left up that I cant look over and this does little to change my mind that their is a homophobia problem within the mod team. Being LGBT yourself does not excuse homophobia, I have met many homophobic LGBT people. I cannot forgive the fact that the mod team let an age old homophobic idea stay up on that thread for hours after deleting posts after it. Also while I'm at it get rid of the actual people causing harm in the The Bar.


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#18 honeymaple

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:17 PM

 

We're all humans first before we are mods and having such hurtful and heavy accusations thrown at you never feels good.
 

 

 

Like for no reason being called "pedophile" and then punished for complaining about that? I'm sorry, but mods are not the victim here.


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#19 raspberry84

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:18 PM (Edited by raspberry84, 17 March 2019 - 12:21 PM.)

If this is the argument no conversation about minor idols should be allowed here.

 

If an idol under 18 is singing a song about romance or behaving romantically in a video count does that count?

 

Take this video for example:

 

 

This depicts idols under the age of 18 acting in a romantic way. Would this not violate the rule?

 

Taemin was like 14 in this and depicted trying to romantically woo a female in this video, for example. Would posting or talking about this video count as violating the rule?


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#20 MadMadamMims

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:21 PM (Edited by MadMadamMims, 17 March 2019 - 12:25 PM.)

If this is the argument no conversation about minor idols should be allowed here.

 

If an idol under 18 is singing a song about romance or behaving romantically in a video count?

 

Take this video for example:

 

 

This depicts idols under the age of 18 acting in a romantic way. Would this not violate the rule?

 

Taemin was like 14 in this and depicted trying to romantically woo a female in this video, for example. Would posting or talking about this video count as violating the rule?

lol there was always a no go zone with taemin till he was of age. if you had been around during that time you would know that. 


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