Idol Music/ Culture Discussion Thread

[mochichan]

I know all this but the denial of the sexuality component is mind-boggling. And then when I bring this up, some people counter with claims that they like the music for the music.

 

Me personally, I can't like an act like them because I like the acts I like solely for the music. 

 

Musical taste is subjective. You might not like it but I and other people like their songs, I'm pretty sure you listen to stuffs I don't like either so.....

Like idols have that upbeat you can do it style that maybe some people like it as guilty pleasure or stuffs that cheer you up. Some of those guys said the same thing in Mnet documentary and I can believe it. I seen some 2ch posts about similar things.

But there's the involvement about idols too

 

I don't really picky about artistry or w/e   

Idols come with that entertaining factor so even if their songs suck I'll still like them if they can be funny. The package don't just have music. 

[DocumentaLy]

I think musical taste is subjective. You might not like it but I and other people like their songs, I'm pretty sure you listen to stuffs I don't like either so.....

Like idols have that upbeat you can do it style that maybe some people like it as guilty pleasure or stuffs that cheer you up. Some of those guys said the same thing in Mnet documentary and I can believe it. I seen some 2ch posts about similar things.

But there's the involvement about idols too

 

I don't really picky about artistry or w/e   

 

But you're also a teenage girl so I'm not surprised. The music is made for you. You're part of the demographic. I'm not. They try to appeal to my demographic by injecting a sexual element. That doesn't work on me because I'm not one for gimmicks like that and also because I'm gay. I do wonder though if I was straight would this do something for me? I don't think so really because it's not as if JE acts do anything for me.

 

And there's also the fact that I'm not really into cheery, happy music.

[Ryusenkai]

Musical taste is subjective. You might not like it but I and other people like their songs, I'm pretty sure you listen to stuffs I don't like either so.....

Like idols have that upbeat you can do it style that maybe some people like it as guilty pleasure or stuffs that cheer you up. Some of those guys said the same thing in Mnet documentary and I can believe it. I seen some 2ch posts about similar things.

But there's the involvement about idols too

 

I don't really picky about artistry or w/e   

Idols come with that entertaining factor so even if their songs suck I'll still like them if they can be funny. The package don't just have music. 

 

There is an objective way to look at music as well - looking at the complexity, innovative-ness, and creativity behind the composition, the writing ability of the lyricist, coupled with the meaning and the emotion placed into the lyrics, how the song sounds live without any extra bells and whistles, etc.  I've talked to some music majors that I know about this and it certainly is one way to look at the whole situation.  Of course taste is subjective - different strokes for different folks, but it IS possible to judge musical quality without being subjective.

 

 

Even with people I'm a fan of, I have no problem saying I don't like a release. Like how I've said several times that the last Ayu song that wowed me was BRILLANTE.

 

Oh, easily.  I'll admit that after listening to it a good bit, I think that [(an imitation) blood orange] is one of Mr.Children's weakest albums overall.  Does that mean I don't like them?  No.  They're still my favorite band, but there's no such thing as a "perfect" musical act.

[mochichan]

But you're also a teenage girl so I'm not surprised. The music is made for you. You're part of the demographic. I'm not. They try to appeal to my demographic by injecting a sexual element. That doesn't work on me because I'm not one for gimmicks like that and also because I'm gay. I do wonder though if I was straight would this do something for me? I don't think so really because it's not as if JE acts do anything for me.

 

And there's also the fact that I'm not really into cheery, happy music.

 

............I'm 21? 

I listen to Jrock to Jpop to Kpop. 

I just like w/e it's catchy to me and most of my favorite are their darker ones anyway 

 

There is an objective way to look at music as well - looking at the complexity, innovative-ness, and creativity behind the composition, the writing ability of the lyricist, coupled with the meaning and the emotion placed into the lyrics, how the song sounds live without any extra bells and whistles, etc.  I've talked to some music majors that I know about this and it certainly is one way to look at the whole situation.  Of course taste is subjective - different strokes for different folks, but it IS possible to judge musical quality without being subjective.

 

 

But it's not like the average music listener gush about how complex a song is. They listen to w/e is catchy which is the only thing that matter in commercial music  

[MoreTokyo]

There are way too many generalizations occurring in this thread in regards to the validity of Idol Music/Culture but more importantly the validity of their music. Music is much too complex and nuanced to be talking about it in such a simple and black/white manner, which is exactly what is occurring in this thread. There seems to be a notion that plagues this forum/thread about the validity of idol music, which doesn't often always stem from their music but their image and concept. Idols are capable and have released artistic and unique records throughout their creation and lime light in the J-Music scene. Won't be arguing on behalf of AKB48 because I'm not as familiar with their material as I would like to be before I argue in regards to them but they've released quite a few records that are top notch and push the musical soundscape such as UZA! There are Idol groups like BiS, Especia, Tomato N Pine,  Lyrical School, 9Nine, Sutekiss, Negicco, ã§ã‚“ã±çµ„.inc and others that have release interesting material and have found way to showcase a more intelligent and varied side to idol music and culture. Discrediting an entire genre or style on the basis of a simple act like The 48 Family isn't too smart or even based in anything outside of a dislike for what AKB48 represent on their own. There are other groups outside of AKB48 who have different ideals and function in a different manner than other idol groups. There is a lot of interesting and unique material that comes out of a few idol groups and the manner in which they function and market themselves is incredibly interesting and looking into. I don't predominantly listen to idol music because I mainly stick with experimental/noise or independent rock but I'm capable of seeing the validity and reason as to why people like and listen to idol music.

 

Why would anyone want to take out or remove the sexual context of an idol group? It's one of their quirks and an interesting take on the concept of sex especially in a place like Japan that still has a tendency to be conservative from time to time. I'm also a queer person (24) and have found quite a few records by AKB48 (Not all but a few) that have caught my attention in terms of their music. The sexual component also catches my attention because of the concept and nuances behind it. It's problematic that so many generalization are being about the amnner that people enjoy their music or the job that it serves for different people.

[Ryusenkai]

There are way too many generalizations occurring in this thread in regards to the validity of Idol Music/Culture but more importantly the validity of their music. Music is much too complex and nuanced to be talking about it in such a simple and black/white manner, which is exactly what is occurring in this thread. There seems to be a notion that plagues this forum/thread about the validity of idol music, which doesn't often always stem from their music but their image and concept. Idols are capable and have released artistic and unique records throughout their creation and lime light in the J-Music scene. Won't be arguing on behalf of AKB48 because I'm not as familiar with their material as I would like to be before I argue in regards to them but they've released quite a few records that are top notch and push the musical soundscape such as UZA! There are Idol groups like BiS, Especia, Tomato N Pine,  Lyrical School, 9Nine, Sutekiss, Negicco, ã§ã‚“ã±çµ„.inc and others that have release interesting material and have found way to showcase a more intelligent and varied side to idol music and culture. Discrediting an entire genre or style on the basis of a simple act like The 48 Family isn't too smart or even based in anything outside of a dislike for what AKB48 represent on their own. There are other groups outside of AKB48 who have different ideals and function in a different manner than other idol groups. There is a lot of interesting and unique material that comes out of a few idol groups and the manner in which they function and market themselves is incredibly interesting and looking into. I don't predominantly listen to idol music because I mainly stick with experimental/noise or independent rock but I'm capable of seeing the validity and reason as to why people like and listen to idol music.

 

Why would anyone want to take out or remove the sexual context of an idol group? It's one of their quirks and an interesting take on the concept of sex especially in a place like Japan that still has a tendency to be conservative from time to time. I'm also a queer person (24) and have found quite a few records by AKB48 (Not all but a few) that have caught my attention in terms of their music. The sexual component also catches my attention because of the concept and nuances behind it. It's problematic that so many generalization are being about the amnner that people enjoy their music or the job that it serves for different people.

 

All right, let's sit down for a few minutes.  I'm not particularly qualified to talk about idol music considering that most of my exposure to it was early in my J-music career (around 8 or so years ago) or through the Music Trade-offs that I've had to do on both Hallyu8 and on this website.  However, based on what I've been told by a good amount of people, I'd like to think that I have a good ear for music.  I listen to a fairly good variety, from pop-rock, to rock, to jazz, to blues, to classical, to folk, even if there a couple of those that I haven't talked at length about on here.  I'm not going to argue that an idol group has NEVER produced a musically interesting record, since I don't have the background or the data to back me up on that (nor do I honestly believe that it hasn't happened), but I do have a bit of a story to tell, so to speak.  This has to do with a series of discussions that I had earlier this year with people who are probably way more qualified than I to judge music.  So please, bear with me.

 

My advisor at college this year was a professor in the Music Department, and as such, I had the opportunity to have several interesting talks with them about music all over the world.  There was one discussion in particular that I'd like to relate.  It involved myself, two Music professors (one of whom was Japanese), and a handful of Music students.  Eventually, the topic turned to Japanese music and the Japanese music industry and how it's changed over the past two decades.  Inevitably, this was going to bring up AKB48 once we got to the current era.  Since some of the students had never heard of them before, the Japanese professor decided to play a couple of songs (UZA included).  There were some moments that I vividly recall of some of the students cringing through some songs.  After this, we got into a discussion involving the quality of popular music in Japan and comparing several of the eras top artists to each other.  The judgement of most of the students (as well as the professors, I'll add) was that AKB's music was among the simplest and least inventive.  Did some of them admit that a couple of the songs were catchy?  Yes, but in terms of actually being musically interesting (in terms of composition, creativity, etc.) ... there weren't really any that thought that their work was ground-breaking or overly "artistic" in any way.

 

To conclude, while yes, it's incredibly likely that you'll find some songs from some idol groups that do interesting/creative things, I'll have to beg to differ if you think that AKB48 has "pushed the musical soundscape" in any way.  I'm going to go with my own knowledge and the words of some experts on this one.

[MoreTokyo]

All right, let's sit down for a few minutes.  I'm not particularly qualified to talk about idol music considering that most of my exposure to it was early in my J-music career (around 8 or so years ago) or through the Music Trade-offs that I've had to do on both Hallyu8 and on this website.  However, based on what I've been told by a good amount of people, I'd like to think that I have a good ear for music.  I listen to a fairly good variety, from pop-rock, to rock, to jazz, to blues, to classical, to folk, even if there a couple of those that I haven't talked at length about on here.  I'm not going to argue that an idol group has NEVER produced a musically interesting record, since I don't have the background or the data to back me up on that (nor do I honestly believe that it hasn't happened), but I do have a bit of a story to tell, so to speak.  This has to do with a series of discussions that I had earlier this year with people who are probably way more qualified than I to judge music.  So please, bear with me.

 

My advisor at college this year was a professor in the Music Department, and as such, I had the opportunity to have several interesting talks with them about music all over the world.  There was one discussion in particular that I'd like to relate.  It involved myself, two Music professors (one of whom was Japanese), and a handful of Music students.  Eventually, the topic turned to Japanese music and the Japanese music industry and how it's changed over the past two decades.  Inevitably, this was going to bring up AKB48 once we got to the current era.  Since some of the students had never heard of them before, the Japanese professor decided to play a couple of songs (UZA included).  There were some moments that I vividly recall of some of the students cringing through some songs.  After this, we got into a discussion involving the quality of popular music in Japan and comparing several of the eras top artists to each other.  The judgement of most of the students (as well as the professors, I'll add) was that AKB's music was among the simplest and least inventive.  Did some of them admit that a couple of the songs were catchy?  Yes, but in terms of actually being musically interesting (in terms of composition, creativity, etc.) ... there weren't really any that thought that their work was ground-breaking or overly "artistic" in any way.

 

To conclude, while yes, it's incredibly likely that you'll find some songs from some idol groups that do interesting/creative things, I'll have to beg to differ if you think that AKB48 has "pushed the musical soundscape" in any way.  I'm going to go with my own knowledge and the words of some experts on this one.

I'm quite familiar with both Independent and Idol music, which makes me qualified to speak on behalf of both sides especially when it comes down to discrediting idol music of any merit or artistry. I've noticed that most arguments against AKB48 or The 48 Family has to do with the fact that they are easily the most polarizing group in Japan. There is a certain level of unfairness and fanaticism that comes in hand when either critiquing or praising them especially when it comes to down to critiquing them. AKB48 are a group that have released both horrible and wonderful records but they often aren't given any credit when they decide to break out of their mode and release a sonically interesting or unique record. They are often lauded and mainly focused on the bad material that they've released (they have plenty of awful tracks) but they often aren't given credit for when they think outside of the box and deliver a good record and that is my problem with quite a bit of the criticisms thrown their way. Have you listened to Uza? It's chock full of sharp sounds, samples and production that is incredibly haunting and aggressive. It's a record that should be praised on the merits of its uniqueness and the production of the tracks but it isn't going to get such credit because it's AKB48 who released the record. I'm not arguing that AKB48 themselves have pushed the musical soundscape but they have moment where their records have and Uza is an example of that. My argument mainly revolves around discrediting or taking away the unique or artistic merits of a group only on the basis because they are idols. There are countless musicians who are held in such high esteem like Yasuhara Konishi who is mastermind and has released some of the best music in Japan who has often given credit and spoken about a few idols groups who have made good music. I've also noticed that you don't often listen to pop music because the majority of the genres you listened focus  around actual instruments. Pop functions in a completely different and often times a more polarizing manner than music like Rock or Folk but that doesn't take away any of their validity. I'm not disagreeing with your argument but there is so much more to Idol music than what it's getting credit for and I can vouch for this because I listen to both Idol and Independent/experimental music.

[DocumentaLy]

The thing about UZA is that it's different for them, it's not different in general. I just hear an electropop song I could get from anyone.

[MoreTokyo]

The thing about UZA is that it's different for them, it's not different in general. I just hear an electropop song I could get from anyone.

Uza is definitely a different aesthetic and sound for AKB48 because they usually don't sound like this. I've already mentioned that I don't necessarily care too much for AKB48 and they are a polarizing group for myself but I'm still willing to give them credit for the moment, which they do release interesting music and Uza happens to be one of those cases. Would argue that it's definitely a bit more then just an electropop song because their is so much more going on in terms of production and sound but that is subjective for the most part. I'm mainly focusing on discrediting an entire genre or taking away any artistic merit or unique music that they might bring to the table only because they are idols, which is an ideology and common belief that I've seen around the forum. I'm just trying to give everyone credit for the music that they release along with fair criticisms that doesn't stem from just disliking them because they are idols or AKB48.

[DocumentaLy]

Uza is definitely a different aesthetic and sound for AKB48 because they usually don't sound like this. I've already mentioned that I don't necessarily care too much for AKB48 and they are a polarizing group for myself but I'm still willing to give them credit for the moment, which they do release interesting music and Uza happens to be one of those cases. Would argue that it's definitely a bit more then just an electropop song because their is so much more going on in terms of production and sound but that is subjective for the most part. I'm mainly focusing on discrediting an entire genre or taking away any artistic merit or unique music that they might bring to the table only because they are idols, which is an ideology and common belief that I've seen around the forum. I'm just trying to give everyone credit for the music that they release along with fair criticisms that doesn't stem from just disliking them because they are idols or AKB48.

 

I've been shown idols groups and I haven't found one to my liking. There's always something off. It's the childish voices or the noisy music or the retro sound or the cute sound... Like if there was an idol group like a KPop idol group, I would probably be more about that. But then again I'm not really into KPop idol groups like that anymore... I want an idol group like:

 

 

 

But then again if they were in Japan they'd probably go the artist route.

[MoreTokyo]

I've been shown idols groups and I haven't found one to my liking. There's always something off. It's the childish voices or the noisy music or the retro sound or the cute sound... Like if there was an idol group like a KPop idol group, I would probably be more about that. But then again I'm not really into KPop idol groups like that anymore... I want a idol group like:

 

 

 

But then again if they were in Japan they'd probably go the artist route.

After School are my favorite group and would like to see other idol groups in Japan expand their image and sound a bit more but there are still quite a few groups like Negicco who are pushing the sound within the idol community. They don't have childish sounding voices and they have top notch production in terms of their sound. 9Nine also ave quite a few tracks on Cue that break the mold but they are also incredibly young and their voices haven't developed. Arguably it has quite a bit to do with what you are shown from the idol industry and depends on the tracks that you've been exposed to. I have quite a few criticisms in regards to the idol industry and music myself but I just don't care much for fully throwing away an entire genre based on the groups that are in the lime light. I'm not trying to get into Idol groups because I stand by everyone listening to the music that they like and speaks to them. I just want everyone to be a bit more thoughtful and fair when it comes to criticizing an idol group or their music just because they are an idol group.

[DocumentaLy]

After School are my favorite group and would like to see other idol groups in Japan expand their image and sound a bit more but there are still quite a few groups like Negicco who are pushing the sound within the idol community. They don't have childish sounding voices and they have top notch production in terms of their sound. 9Nine also ave quite a few tracks on Cue that break the mold but they are also incredibly young and their voices haven't developed. Arguably it has quite a bit to do with what you are shown from the idol industry and depends on the tracks that you've been exposed to. I have quite a few criticisms in regards to the idol industry and music myself but I just don't care much for fully throwing away an entire genre based on the groups that are in the lime light. I'm not trying to get into Idol groups because I stand by everyone listening to the music that they like and speaks to them. I just want everyone to be a bit more thoughtful and fair when it comes to criticizing an idol group or their music just because they are an idol group.

 

Like I hear the age thing being used as an excuse by some, I'm not saying you're doing it, and I don't get it. Like during one of the trades I was given a Momoclo song and the voices and music were so jarring. I said they sounded like kids and someone said that they were. I went and looked up their ages and those girls were older than Hikki and Miliyah when they debuted. It was a WTF for me.

[eyeless]

There are way too many generalizations occurring in this thread in regards to the validity of Idol Music/Culture but more importantly the validity of their music. Music is much too complex and nuanced to be talking about it in such a simple and black/white manner, which is exactly what is occurring in this thread. There seems to be a notion that plagues this forum/thread about the validity of idol music, which doesn't often always stem from their music but their image and concept. Idols are capable and have released artistic and unique records throughout their creation and lime light in the J-Music scene. Won't be arguing on behalf of AKB48 because I'm not as familiar with their material as I would like to be before I argue in regards to them but they've released quite a few records that are top notch and push the musical soundscape such as UZA! There are Idol groups like BiS, Especia, Tomato N Pine,  Lyrical School, 9Nine, Sutekiss, Negicco, ã§ã‚“ã±çµ„.inc and others that have release interesting material and have found way to showcase a more intelligent and varied side to idol music and culture. Discrediting an entire genre or style on the basis of a simple act like The 48 Family isn't too smart or even based in anything outside of a dislike for what AKB48 represent on their own. There are other groups outside of AKB48 who have different ideals and function in a different manner than other idol groups. There is a lot of interesting and unique material that comes out of a few idol groups and the manner in which they function and market themselves is incredibly interesting and looking into. I don't predominantly listen to idol music because I mainly stick with experimental/noise or independent rock but I'm capable of seeing the validity and reason as to why people like and listen to idol music.

 

Why would anyone want to take out or remove the sexual context of an idol group? It's one of their quirks and an interesting take on the concept of sex especially in a place like Japan that still has a tendency to be conservative from time to time. I'm also a queer person (24) and have found quite a few records by AKB48 (Not all but a few) that have caught my attention in terms of their music. The sexual component also catches my attention because of the concept and nuances behind it. It's problematic that so many generalization are being about the amnner that people enjoy their music or the job that it serves for different people.

 

This! I just can't say it any better than this

[MoreTokyo]

Like I hear the age thing being used as an excuse by some, I'm not saying you're doing it, and I don't get it. Like during one of the trades I was given a Momoclo song and the voices and music were so jarring. I said they sounded like kids and someone said that they were. I went and looked up their ages and those girls were older than Hikki and Miliyah when they debuted. It was a WTF for me.

I don't think you are talking about Momoiro Clover Z because they are all much younger then Utada and Miliyah but they definitely aren't children. Momoiro Clover Z aren't a traditional idol group because they function on a different soundscape. They are definitely a noisy group but what they are doing musically isn't the same as what AKB48 are doing because their is more experimentation in their sound. Your criticisms of their voices are valid and it's a general issue with quite a few idol groups. I've already mentioned that my only goal is for everyone to fairly critique a group on the merits of their music instead of their marketing or disliking the fact that they are an idol group. I'm not trying to get anyone to like idol groups but rethink the way that criticisms and praise are handled in regards to them.

[IceHism]

I don't think you are talking about Momoiro Clover Z because they are all much younger then Utada and Miliyah but they definitely aren't children. Momoiro Clover Z aren't a traditional idol group because they function on a different soundscape. They are definitely a noisy group but what they are doing musically isn't the same as what AKB48 are doing because their is more experimentation in their sound. Your criticisms of their voices are valid and it's a general issue with quite a few idol groups. I've already mentioned that my only goal is for everyone to fairly critique a group on the merits of their music instead of their marketing or disliking the fact that they are an idol group. I'm not trying to get anyone to like idol groups but rethink the way that criticisms and praise are handled in regards to them.

 

welp, that was quick.

you definitely explained it better than i could 

[DocumentaLy]

I don't think you are talking about Momoiro Clover Z because they are all much younger then Utada and Miliyah but they definitely aren't children. Momoiro Clover Z aren't a traditional idol group because they function on a different soundscape. They are definitely a noisy group but what they are doing musically isn't the same as what AKB48 are doing because their is more experimentation in their sound. Your criticisms of their voices are valid and it's a general issue with quite a few idol groups. I've already mentioned that my only goal is for everyone to fairly critique a group on the merits of their music instead of their marketing or disliking the fact that they are an idol group. I'm not trying to get anyone to like idol groups but rethink the way that criticisms and praise are handled in regards to them.

 

This is what I was given:

 

 

 

It sounds like kids hopped on sugary cereal singing along to a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

This came out last year when they were all between 16 - 19.

 

Hikki at 16:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_8T7lYucQ

 

Miliyah at 17:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVWMitaw8yc

[MoreTokyo]

This is what I was given:

 

 

 

It sounds like kids hopped on sugary cereal singing along to a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

This came out last year when they were all between 16 - 19.

 

Hikki at 16:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_8T7lYucQ

 

Miliyah at 17:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVWMitaw8yc

Are you comparing Utada Hikaru and Miliya Kato to Momoiro Clover Z? They couldn't possibly be any more different from each other in terms of music or function. Momoiro Clover Z are an idol group and serve their function within their respective industry, which is different from the manner and purpose that both Utada and Miliyah serve. Comparing all of them together is incredibly silly and unnecessary because they couldn't be anymore different from each other. You should be comparing Utada Hikaru and Miliyah Kato to each other instead of with an idol group because it doesn't make your point. You seem to be ignoring the difference between being an idol and not being an idol. You just can't compare Kato/Utada to Momoiro Clover Z because it doesn't make any sense. However, Momoiro Clover Z aren't any less valid in terms of their musical output and artistry because they aren't at the level of Utada or Miliyah because they are just much too different. You can't compare idol groups or use artist as a means to discredit the work that idol groups do because that doesn't work and it's an incredibly lazy way to argue things.

[DocumentaLy]

Are you comparing Utada Hikaru and Miliya Kato to Momoiro Clover Z? They couldn't possibly be any more different from each other in terms of music or function. Momoiro Clover Z are an idol group and serve their function within their respective industry, which is different from the manner and purpose that both Utada and Miliyah serve. Comparing all of them together is incredibly silly and unnecessary because they couldn't be anymore different from each other. You should be comparing Utada Hikaru and Miliyah Kato to each other instead of with an idol group because it doesn't make your point. You seem to be ignoring the difference between being an idol and not being an idol. You just can't compare Kato/Utada to Momoiro Clover Z because it doesn't make any sense. However, Momoiro Clover Z aren't any less valid in terms of their musical output and artistry because they aren't at the level of Utada or Miliyah because they are just much too different. You can't compare idol groups or use artist as a means to discredit the work that idol groups do because that doesn't work and it's an incredibly lazy way to argue things.

 

I was talking about vocals. Someone used their age as an excuse and I told them that there are acts I listen to who are the same age or younger who this logic doesn't apply to.

 

As far as music goes, I don't really compare them because there is no need to because it's such an invalid comparison to make.

[MoreTokyo]

I was talking about vocals. Someone used their age as an excuse and I told them that there are acts I listen to who are the same age or younger who this logic doesn't apply to.

 

As far as music goes, I don't really compare them because there is no need to because it's such an invalid comparison to make.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that note but you have to take into consideration that every group is going to be different and there are certain people who happen to like that style of vocal work. Vocals shouldn't always be the main draw of music because there are also other aspects like production and instrumentation but that doesn't seem to ever be disgused in regards to idols because it always seems to focus on their voices. Criticizing their vocal work is valid and it's definitely a point worth making but there are definitely people who are into that style of singing and that shouldn't be used as a mean to discredit their overall artistry.

[eyeless]

Like I hear the age thing being used as an excuse by some, I'm not saying you're doing it, and I don't get it. Like during one of the trades I was given a Momoclo song and the voices and music were so jarring. I said they sounded like kids and someone said that they were. I went and looked up their ages and those girls were older than Hikki and Miliyah when they debuted. It was a WTF for me.

Momoclo is Momoclo. Being crazy, silly, noisy, hyper energetic and childish are their things and their fans including me like them because of those. Why? Because they're unique.

 

About Saraba Itoshiki Kanashimitachi Yo, Hotei Tomoyasu write the song and tried hard to match Momoclo's personality. He played guitar in the song, he even performed the song in his concert. There's no problem if you don't like the song, but it's not embarrassing for me to like the song as well.

 

Hikki and Miliyah sure have a lot better vocal, but can they perform as energetic as momoclo? I doubt it. It's just different kind of entertainment.

[DocumentaLy]

I'm not disagreeing with you on that note but you have to take into consideration that every group is going to be different and there are certain people who happen to like that style of vocal work. Vocals shouldn't always be the main draw of music because there are also other aspects like production and instrumentation but that doesn't seem to ever be disgused in regards to idols because it always seems to focus on their voices. Criticizing their vocal work is valid and it's definitely a point worth making but there are definitely people who are into that style of singing and that shouldn't be used as a mean to discredit their overall artistry.

 

If the vocals are bad, I can't really deal with it. I can make an allowance if the person singing actually wrote their own lyrics because they are using the voice given to them, but if it's a manufactured act the vocals should at least be decent. That should be part of the manufacturing process. My mind is boggled by the fact that people would listen to acts who are by definition not meant to have any vocal talent. That's just me.

[MoreTokyo]

If the vocals are bad, I can't really deal with it. I can make an allowance if the person singing actually wrote their own lyrics because they are using the voice given to them, but if it's a manufactured act the vocals should at least be decent. That should be part of the manufacturing process. My mind is boggled by the fact that people would listen to acts who are by definition not meant to have any vocal talent. That's just me.

I'm not disagreeing with you but there are difference in what people want to hear from their vocalist. I don't think that Touyami of 0.8byou to shougeki is a good vocalist but I'm still attracted to the band because of her unique voice and their music. It's a similar instance for those people who happen to like that aspect of Momoiro Clover Z. We are all going to have different taste in what we expect or desire from my music, which is the point that I've been trying to make. We may not understand why certain people listen to these groups but that doesn't take away from their validity or appeal. In regards to Momoiro Clover Z their music has a lot of interesting sonic touches that catch my attention but I don't necessarily care for them vocally but that shouldn't be used to take anything away from them. We both understand that everyone expects different things from music especially when it comes down to vocal work. You being a fan of Ayumi Hamasaki should know that out of all people because she use to be lauded for her earlier vocal work but a lot of her fans (me included) still enjoyed it. It's similar to how certain people don't mind the vocal work for Momoiro Clover Z. I don't think anyone is saying they are great or substantial vocalist because their main draw seems to be sonic and live.

[DocumentaLy]

Momoclo is Momoclo. Being crazy, silly, noisy, hyper energetic and childish are their things and their fans including me like them because of those. Why? Because they're unique.

 

About Saraba Itoshiki Kanashimitachi Yo, Hotei Tomoyasu write the song and tried hard to match Momoclo's personality. He played guitar in the song, he even performed the song in his concert. There's no problem if you don't like the song, but it's not embarrassing for me to like the song as well.

 

Hikki and Miliyah sure have a lot better vocal, but can they perform as energetic as momoclo? I doubt it. It's just different kind of entertainment.

 

Those are all qualities I'm not really fond of. This actually reminds me of conversations I have with KPop fans about why I'm not fond of Big Bang. 

 

I would say Miliyah's energy is pretty good:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KsI1p-zt4

 

And the vocals are still there.

 

Utada is a bit more stationary:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHyi59U2bU

[CastleInTheSky]

<------ Also a momoclo fan who enjoys their antics. Like everyone else has already stated  you can't compare momoclo to the likes of utada and miliyah for the simple fact that non of the girls in the group wanted to be singers in the first place. I will say they all have come along way though, they may have their off days but i find their singing enjoyable and their concerts >>>>> any other k/j pop idol and/or artist concerts that i've seen so far. Plus they never lip sync regardless if they're sick or not.

 

my Point is momoclo is purely here for entertainment not to be taken as some serious singer/artist

 

*takes off my stan goggles* 

[DocumentaLy]

<------ Also a momoclo fan who enjoys their antics. Like everyone else has already stated  you can't compare momoclo to the likes of utada and miliyah for the simple fact that non of the girls in the group wanted to be singers in the first place. I will say they all have come along way though, they may have their off days but i find their singing enjoyable and their concerts >>>>> any other k/j pop idol and/or artist concerts that i've seen so far. Plus they never lip sync regardless if they're sick or not.

 

my Point is momoclo is purely here for entertainment not to be taken as some serious singer/artist

 

*takes off my stan goggles* 

 

That's the whole thing I don't get. If you're singing/making music, I'm going to take you as such. I'm not going to make a special category for you. I'm getting mixed messages here. Some are saying don't judge them the same as artists, some are saying don't discard them because they're not artists, some are saying that there isn't a difference between idols and artists...