A different perspective about Jimin's issue

[secondgrade]

so i've been purposely avoiding Jimin's issue because talking about politics and history here its a headache but im honestly fucking tired of this revisionist history going around on this topic and it seems like a lot of people have this picture of the current 21st century Japan and the imperialist 19th century Japan that fucking sided with the nazis completely mixed up

 

"Japan was already going to surrender the US nuked them just to flex on Russia"

except that Japan's terms for surrender were absolute bullshit as they demanded their emperor to not be charged with any war crimes, for Japan to not be occupied and that all the war criminals had to be prosecuted in Japan by japanese courts, basically they just wanted to end the war (because they were on the losing end), and be let go free with absolutely no consequences

 

"The shirt celebratres the deaths of thousands of innocent japanese people"

no..just no who tf would be evil enough to celebrate innocents' deaths thats not what is about, the bombs were the only way to end the war quickly i know its horrible but if you read it into context, an invasion would have costed way way more lives, not to mention the mass japanese suicide going on, and the fact that Japan was planning to colonize more countries

 

context is important you cannot analize something that happened centuries ago if you dont contextualize into that period of time and learn about the surroundings that led to an especific event, as someone that also is from a country that was raped and colonized, the wars and events leading to my country's freedom is something im thankful about, thousands of people died but that doesnt mean im celebrating their deaths wtf

 

do i think the shirt is distasteful? i think using an explicit imagery that makes me draw an immediate conclusion (bomb>deaths) instead of something that could actually educate people on your history is counter productive because it does look like you are putting the spotlight on the bomb instead of your liberation (although we all know their liberation was thanks to that)

 

do i think Jimin should apologize? im not drawing any conclusions on why Jimin used the shirt but anyone who knows the history of Japan and Korea would know that the bombs were like a ray of light at that time, not because they killed thousands of innocent people but because it finally brought them their liberation after years of being opressed and exploited

 

Tldr: theres no tldr please read everything if you are interested, my post is not to say if it was right or wrong but to give some context, im obviously not siding with Japan on this one but im not saying im choosing the right or wrong side its not about that

[Wookookie]

I found this reddit thread and I learned many things I didn’t know about https://www.reddit.com/r/bangtan/comments/9vdpb9/korean_viewpoint_about_this_japan_issue/?st=JOA4Q7F5&sh=c5440931 i think a few people will learn a few things because I did for sure. This reddit thread really showed me how little the Spanish education really teaches about Asian history.

[Sdm]

"do i think the shirt is distasteful? i think using an explicit imagery that makes me draw an immediate conclusion (bomb>deaths) instead of something that could actually educate people on your history is counter productive because it does look like you are putting the spotlight on the bomb instead of your liberation (although we all know their liberation was thanks to that)"

 

This is what I feel as well. A lot of people rightfully can't wrap their heads around why such imagery has to be used in the first place. It's an uncomfortable truth that the bombs ended the war and led to their liberation, so it was an important event for them. I can understand Koreans having mixed feelings about it. But it's still dumb and tactless to include it in a shirt and insinuate that you're celebrating people's deaths. The edginess backfired. 

[YuMing]

this is less about the jimin thing and more about whether or not the nuking was justified though

 

imo it's ridiculous that even though it was the japanese GOVERNMENT who was doing all that shit and yet innocent citizens were the ones who ended up suffering the most, and even today it's because the japanese GOVERNMENT refuses to apologize that korean people are so mad

 

japanese government =/= japanese citizens but a lot of people can't seem to grasp it kek

[secondgrade]

"do i think the shirt is distasteful? i think using an explicit imagery that makes me draw an immediate conclusion (bomb>deaths) instead of something that could actually educate people on your history is counter productive because it does look like you are putting the spotlight on the bomb instead of your liberation (although we all know their liberation was thanks to that)"

 

This is what I feel as well. A lot of people rightfully can't wrap their heads around why such imagery has to be used in the first place. It's an uncomfortable truth that the bombs ended the war and led to their liberation, so it was an important event for them. I can understand Koreans having mixed feelings about it. But it's still dumb and tactless to include it in a shirt and insinuate that you're celebrating people's deaths. The edginess backfired.

 

it backfired because people (in the west mostly) were taught that the bombings were a cruel unnecesary act of hatred by the US while not being aware that in the other side of the world the bombings were basically the salvation of the colonized countries

[copperfire]

I can't believe i'm agreeing with you, but let me applaud you for facts

[Nip&Hip]

Anyone arguing that the atomic bombing was in anyway a good thing or a necessary evil in any way is a disgusting massacre defending fuck I cannot believe the lows y'all are willing to go just to defend an idol. I'm really speechless.

[EuphoricVelvet]

I found this reddit thread and I learned many things I didn’t know about https://www.reddit.com/r/bangtan/comments/9vdpb9/korean_viewpoint_about_this_japan_issue/?st=JOA4Q7F5&sh=c5440931 i think a few people will learn a few things because I did for sure. This reddit thread really showed me how little the Spanish education really teaches about Asian history.

I didn’t know anything about Korea or Japan’s relationship prior to this incident so I appreciate this post.

[secondgrade]

Anyone arguing that the atomic bombing was in anyway a good thing or a necessary evil in any way is a disgusting massacre defending fuck I cannot believe the lows y'all are willing to go just to defend an idol. I'm really speechless.

this is less about the jimin thing and more about whether or not the nuking was justified though

 

imo it's ridiculous that even though it was the japanese GOVERNMENT who was doing all that shit and yet innocent citizens were the ones who ended up suffering the most, and even today it's because the japanese GOVERNMENT refuses to apologize that korean people are so mad

 

japanese government =/= japanese citizens but a lot of people can't seem to grasp it kek

its easy to look back into the past while having the knowledge on how everything developed through the years and point out the things that could have been changed or the things that were fucked up, you may now think whatever you want on how the US acted and if it was justified or not, at that time people only wanted to end the war and the facts are that Japan was defeated, WWII ended and the countries were liberated, can you imagine how many more people would have died if they just let Japan and Germany act like rabid dogs and continue with their war crimes?

[geez]

Yall really trying to make an atomic bomb that still affecting people into a good or acceptable thing to defend oppa, freaking disgusting 

[Nip&Hip]

its easy to look back into the past while having the knowledge on how everything developed through the years and point out the things that could have been changed or the things that were fucked up, you may now think whatever you want on how the US acted and if it was justified or not, at that time people only wanted to end the war and the facts are that Japan was defeated, WWII ended and the countries were liberated, can you imagine how many more people would have died if they just let Japan and Germany act like rabid dogs and continue with their war crimes?

 

aha whatever helps you sleep at night. I for once am not willing to justify the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians no matter what but you do you I guess. 

[Nsfw]

What is wrong with you people

[金彩媛]

I respect your opinion but this only sounds like you're trying to justify the murder of innocents

yes, mistakes were made, measures had to be taken, but let's leave that in the past, let's not pretend that such abhorrent act was anywhere near "necessary"

what everyone is calling out is the glorification of tragedy

[Daria~]

its easy to look back into the past while having the knowledge on how everything developed through the years and point out the things that could have been changed or the things that were fucked up, you may now think whatever you want on how the US acted and if it was justified or not, at that time people only wanted to end the war and the facts are that Japan was defeated, WWII ended and the countries were liberated, can you imagine how many more people would have died if they just let Japan and Germany act like rabid dogs and continue with their war crimes?

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. You make it sound as if nuking Japan twice, resulting in the massive deaths of innocent Japanese people and the resultant radioactive health implications many years later was the only way Korea could have been liberated from the Japanese.

Many countries have been colonised in the past and most of them weren't liberated by nuking the colonizers. The Japanese government is not the Japanese people and trying to justify the mass murder of so many people because it liberated Korea is extremely low and immoral. My country was colonised by the British and I wouldn't be celebrating if we had gained independence by someone bombing England and killing innocent Englishmen who had done nothing wrong.

Any Korean who celebrates Hiroshima because it resulted in their liberation is bottom of the barrel scum.

Pearl harbor wasn't right and neither was Hiroshima.

[secondgrade]

aha whatever helps you sleep at night. I for once am not willing to justify the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians no matter what but you do you I guess.

 

  

Yall really trying to make an atomic bomb that still affecting people into a good or acceptable thing to defend oppa, freaking disgusting

 

aha whatever helps you sleep at night. I for once am not willing to justify the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians no matter what but you do you I guess.

 

"defend oppa" hdjsksn go search about Japan's war crimes and how Japan still hasnt apologized properly to Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia and the othet countries they colonized

if i wanted to defend "oppa" i could have done so since the issue first started but as i said discussing about history is a headache here, nothing is black or white no one can look into the future and take their decisions based on that

if you are not willing to justify the murder of innocents then how about Japan's murder of other innocent people?

[geez]

  

 

"defend oppa" hdjsksn go search about Japan's war crimes and how Japan still hasnt apologized properly to Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia and the othet countries they colonized

if i wanted to defend "oppa" i could have done so since the issue first started but as i said discussing about history is a headache here, nothing is black or white no one can look into the future and take their decisions based on that

if you are not willing to justify the murder of innocents then how about Japan's murder of other innocent people?

no excuse sis

wrong is wrong, doesnt matter who did first or worst

[jaegirl]

this is less about the jimin thing and more about whether or not the nuking was justified though

 

imo it's ridiculous that even though it was the japanese GOVERNMENT who was doing all that shit and yet innocent citizens were the ones who ended up suffering the most, and even today it's because the japanese GOVERNMENT refuses to apologize that korean people are so mad

 

japanese government =/= japanese citizens but a lot of people can't seem to grasp it kek

 

As a Singaporean and whose grandparents experienced the WWII themselves... I cannot even FATHOM how some people just wouldn't even try to be neutral on this topic of US dropping the bomb on Japan at that time.

 

There's no denying that nuking is a fking terrible thing to do to ANYONE. Yet..has anyone think if the nukes had not happened, to what extent are the enslaved and invaded countries supposed to BEAR with the inhumane doings of the Japanese govt and soldiers?

 

You might want to read up more on Japan's requests for surrendering and stopping the war before talking about how bad nuking is. What about the invasion and massacres Japan did to SO MANY of us? Were they less evil? Did they take less lives?(Read up on this too)

 

So unless you can suggest an alternative solution to what the US or anyone at that time could have done to stop the evil that is the Japanese govt... Don't. Don't be that person who only knows a little about the relevant parties' history and yet, yaps about the morals of the people back then who were forced to do what they did because someone had to stop the Japanese.

 

 

no excuse sis

wrong is wrong, doesnt matter who did first or worst

 

"Doesn't matter who did first" I hope you think more when you speak usually because what you said definitely does not apply to World War II. If Japan had not started the whole invasion... will they be nuked? 

 

Easy for you to say, when you are not the world's leader(US) and had to stop the war that's killing tens, hundreds of thousands everyday by the Japanese, who STARTED this whole thing by invading, raping, killing/torturing tens to hundreds of thousands per day.

 

Do not minimize whatever Japan did to us by saying nuking is more evil. I am usually very patient with antis and trolls on this forum since they're just young kids mostly but not at the expense of using actual history to dramatize some kpop controversy happening right now. You want to argue or be edgy with your one-line answers, bring some worthy points to the table. 

 

If you have the guts to neg this post, have the guts to QUOTE me too.  

[TaeGiElitist]

no excuse sis

wrong is wrong, doesnt matter who did first or worst

Must be nice living on a moral high ground. Plz tell us of a war that was won with every doing the absolute right thing. No one is trying to defend anything but it would be nice if you didn't bury your head in the sand just so you can appear to be a beacon of morality.

[copperfire]

Ok this is tldr too. But this is my pov which is similar to the op's. I don't think any one is celebrating the massacre of anybody. But war is war, and at the end of the day it had to be stopped somehow. Did it have to be the atomic bomb? Maybe not. But it's happened already and it liberated plenty of nations. I'm not a Jimin fan nor do I hate Japan. In fact I have been to Hiroshima before. The city is amazing now. Almost none of the traces of the war except for the peace park. And in that peace park I saw in pictures and bomb fragments the traces of what happened in Hiroshima and my heart felt for them. But I also came from a country that's been colonized by Japan, my father born just a few months after the bombing. It's history and the war was bad for my grandparents and their life after being part of the war was a struggle. My gradparents are dead, my father still doesn't like the Japanese gov't, and neither do I (I love the Japanese ppl, culture, and work ethic though) I hope everyone of you respect that, and respect the idea that for some people maybe the atomic bomb actually did some good. I'm far from celebrating the incident but I also recognized that that thing stopped a war. And it actually allowed my dad and his family to live freely.

[VHope AzAd]

@taegielitist . Im so sorry . I accidentally downvoted you.

[geez]

Must be nice living on a moral high ground. Plz tell us of a war that was won with every doing the absolute right thing. No one is trying to defend anything but it would be nice if you didn't bury your head in the sand just so you can appear to be a beacon of morality.

????????? I should applaud the death of innocents or think it's justifiable just because it was war????????????? then let's say all the shit hitler did wasnt that bad too because it was war and helped the world to advance in medicine, technology and etc

this kind of thinking that lead people to do so much gruesome

[DemonicPotato]

As a Singaporean and whose grandparents experienced the WWII themselves... I cannot even FATHOM how some people just wouldn't even try to be neutral on this topic of US dropping the bomb on Japan at that time.

 

There's no denying that nuking is a fking terrible thing to do to ANYONE. Yet..has anyone think if the nukes had not happened, to what extent are the enslaved and invaded countries supposed to BEAR with the inhumane doings of the Japanese govt and soldiers?

 

You might want to read up more on Japan's requests for surrendering and stopping the war before talking about how bad nuking is. What about the invasion and massacres Japan did to SO MANY of us? Were they less evil? Did they take less lives?(Read up on this too)

 

So unless you can suggest an alternative solution to what the US or anyone at that time could have done to stop the evil that is the Japanese govt... Don't. Don't be that person who only knows a little about the relevant parties' history and yet, yaps about the morals of the people back then who were forced to do what they did because someone had to stop the Japanese.

 

Not sure you wanna argue a nuke was the only solution to end the war quickly -not like there's a consensus on that. Actually, there have been some arguments put forward that the Soviet declaration of war (which happened pm at the same time) was just as much of a deciding factor. It's not a clear-cut thing, really.

[secondgrade]

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense at all. You make it sound as if nuking Japan twice, resulting in the massive deaths of innocent Japanese people and the resultant radioactive health implications many years later was the only way Korea could have been liberated from the Japanese.

Many countries have been colonised in the past and most of them weren't liberated by nuking the colonizers. The Japanese government is not the Japanese people and trying to justify the mass murder of so many people because it liberated Korea is extremely low and immoral. My country was colonised by the British and I wouldn't be celebrating if we had gained independence by someone bombing England and killing innocent Englishmen who had done nothing wrong.

Any Korean who celebrates Hiroshima because it resulted in their liberation is bottom of the barrel scum.

Pearl harbor wasn't right and neither was Hiroshima.

i- girl this was World War II you know the most devastating war of all times where around 50 million people died right,

"Many countries have been colonised in the past and most of them weren't liberated by nuking the colonizers." honestly have you ever read about how is to live during war times? have you ever read about WWII? Japan killed MILLIONS of people since they started their colonization, nice of you to say you wouldnt celebrate if your oppressors were nuked tell me then what is the solution to liberate the countries colonized by Japan?

[TaeGiElitist]

????????? I should applaud the death of innocents or think it's justifiable just because it was war????????????? then let's say all the shit hitler did wasnt that bad too because it was war and helped the world to advance in medicine, technology and etc

this kind of thinking that lead people to do so much gruesome

no one is saying you should applaud anything. You however should be capable of holding two opposing thoughts in your mind. Being an idealist is fine and dandy on paper but that's not how the real world works. Is it so hard for you to realise that there are two sides to every story and some good can come from a bad thing.

And I don't see how you can compare medical advancements to Korea getting free from the clutches of imperialist.

The world is not black and white it never will be so you better learn to adjust your thinking. I don't know how people like you survive the real world thinking only bad people do bad things and good people good things when in reality is not so straight forward.

[secondgrade]

I respect your opinion but this only sounds like you're trying to justify the murder of innocents

yes, mistakes were made, measures had to be taken, but let's leave that in the past, let's not pretend that such abhorrent act was anywhere near "necessary"

what everyone is calling out is the glorification of tragedy

the japanese regimen was thinking "mistakes are made, measures had to be taken" when they were killing six million of innocent slaves too