Official Figure Skating Thread

[Chiharu]

Welp, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset about Zhenya and Rika's placements. Feel like Zhenya should've been on the podium, and Rika....I wish she would have just done a 2a, the 3a in the short hasn't been working for her all season. Gotta admire her determination with it though. I do believe if she goes clean in the free and lands 2 3a's, she can still win though, so fingers crossed.

[Chiharu]

Also, Alina and Elizabet were over scored and no one can convince me otherwise

[jennaayy]

Welp, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset about Zhenya and Rika's placements. Feel like Zhenya should've been on the podium, and Rika....I wish she would have just done a 2a, the 3a in the short hasn't been working for her all season. Gotta admire her determination with it though. I do believe if she goes clean in the free and lands 2 3a's, she can still win though, so fingers crossed.

Zhenya getting called for a UR while Mariah got called clean was just awful.

 

 

Speaking of Mariah...Korean media is reporting that Mariah has been bullying Eunsoo Lim for several months and that she intentionally injured Eunsoo during practice. Eunsoo’s team has filed an official complaint so we’ll see if there’s an investigation of sorts.

[Chiharu]

Zhenya getting called for a UR while Mariah got called clean was just awful.

 

 

Speaking of Mariah...Korean media is reporting that Mariah has been bullying Eunsoo Lim for several months and that she intentionally injured Eunsoo during practice. Eunsoo’s team has filed an official complaint so we’ll see if there’s an investigation of sorts.

I hope the accusations aren't true, because an adult bullying a teenager is gross and I hope Raph wouldn't allow that to happen. But I don't think Eunsoo would make false claims like that, so we'll have to wait and see

Edited March 20, 2019 by Stinkerbell

[Riserise]

I hope it's not true. If it is, Mariah might want to leave social media altogether, as Korea doesn't take it well when one of their athletes is unfairly treated.

[jennaayy]

I hope it's not true. If it is, Mariah might want to leave social media altogether, as Korea doesn't take it well when one of their athletes is unfairly treated.

People are already all over the comments in her latest IG post. I hope it’s not true either but I don’t see why it would be made up either.

[sakurahanabira]

Men's is going to be tough competition. It's likely that the top 3 will be Yuzuru, Shoma, and either Nathan or Boyang, but who will win gold between Yuzu, Shoma, and Nathan makes me nervous esp if they all skate clean

[Riserise]

Jason Brown did so well. Can he medal at Worlds? Unfortunately, he will probably fall behind when more quads are thrown out in the Free.

 

Am happy Evgenia did well. Rika can still catch up. Her BV is enormous...but if Liz hits that quad...

 

About the Mariah Bell situation. She apologized now, her rep saying she couldn't do that because her music started. Sorry, but that is just BS. She wasn't starting a competotion program, but it was at practice. If you hit someone like that, you will check if they are all right.

 

Even if you really needed to not do so right away; the music is finished 3 minutes later. She could have gone to her then.

 

I used to like Mariah, but I find it very suspicious.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Riserise

[pandabear]

Jason Brown did so well. Can he medal at Worlds? Unfortunately, he will probably fall behind when more quads are thrown out in the Free.

 

Am happy Evgenia did well. Rika can still catch up. Her BV is enormous...but if Liz hits that quad...

 

About the Mariah Bell situation. She apologized now, her rep saying she couldn't do that because her music started. Sorry, but that is just BS. She wasn't starting a competotion program, but it was at practice. If you hit someone like that, you will check if they are all right.

 

Even if you really needed to not do so right away; the music is finished 3 minutes later. She could have gone to her then.

 

I used to like Mariah, but I find it very suspicious.

The footage was viewed by both the KSU and ISU and neither found evidence it was intentional. Mariah was already practicing so this excuse is a bit confusing. She had the right of way, and both were near the board. The pictures show they were close, and Mariah wasn't even paying attention to Lim at the time. The agency claimed Mariah came up behind and kicked Lim and made it out like the injury was severe and needed medical intervention. However, pictures show Lim with a bandaid. (The pictures also don't show Mariah near Lim when she grabbed her calf, so it's possible Mariah didn't notice.) The agency also used this as proof of ongoing bullying while simultaneously asking for only an apology for the injury, stating they wouldn't have made this public if Mariah had apologized. So they made it out to be because of bullying while having no interest in resolving the supposed bullying. I would say the agency is sus here. Edited March 21, 2019 by pandabear

[Lee Jeno]

Sui/Han are amazing. Injury can't stop them from getting another gold medal.

[missprettyfug]

The whole narrative that Mariah Bell attacked Eunsoo is so stupid. An elite skater isnt going to throw away their career during a program run through when cameras are watching them. Eunsoo got nicked by MB's blade, she didn't break her leg. If you are a skater and your music is playing, then you are supposed to finish your program no matter what since you only have ONE chance to run through it. You are not supposed to stop and chit chat if someone gets in your way. 

ATS then ran to the korean media to cry bullying and unfair treatment without talking to MB or Raf's team first. Sound's like an agency wit a  victim mentality to me. Ridiculous. Who's going to want to work with a skater with that kind of agency behind them.

[Chiharu]

This is not the ladies podium I wanted My bby Rika in 4th, the Japanese ladies are always done dirty. But, well, Zhenya got a medal, so ig I'll take it.

[Riserise]

Too bad about Rika indeed, but her biggest weapon failed her twice.

I don't worry about her though, as she will be back for more medals next season.

Nice to see Evgenia on the podium again

 

 

The whole narrative that Mariah Bell attacked Eunsoo is so stupid. An elite skater isnt going to throw away their career during a program run through when cameras are watching them. Eunsoo got nicked by MB's blade, she didn't break her leg. If you are a skater and your music is playing, then you are supposed to finish your program no matter what since you only have ONE chance to run through it. You are not supposed to stop and chit chat if someone gets in your way. 

ATS then ran to the korean media to cry bullying and unfair treatment without talking to MB or Raf's team first. Sound's like an agency wit a  victim mentality to me. Ridiculous. Who's going to want to work with a skater with that kind of agency behind them.

 

It was a practice run, not a competition skate. Whenever skaters collide in practice, they apologize to each other. And I've seen skaters change their path, even when their music is playing, because another skater was spinning somewhere or doing something else and did not see them coming. Eunsoo Lim was already at the edge of the rink, staying out of the way as much as she could. It was not like she appeared out of nowhere just as Mariah was jumping a triple Lutz in her direction. It is of course possible that Mariah didn't notice she hit her. This is the

, at its longest.

 

When it comes to the bullying, you don't know what was going on on the rink.

Saying that someone has a victim mentality while they might actually be a victim is not right. The bullying accusation has just been made, so there has been no research done to disprove it.

American skaters then jumping in the fray, like Adam Rippon saying there was no bullying because he didnt see any when he visited, should also refrain from making such statements.

 

That said, it's also very wrong of people to jump onto Mariah's instagram and bully her there.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Riserise

[jennaayy]

So, so happy about Zhenya placing!!!! This really was redemption for her after the rough start to the season. She can only go up from here

[missprettyfug]

Too bad about Rika indeed, but her biggest weapon failed her twice.

I don't worry about her though, as she will be back for more medals next season.

Nice to see Evgenia on the podium again

 

 

 

It was a practice run, not a competition skate. Whenever skaters collide in practice, they apologize to each other. And I've seen skaters change their path, even when their music is playing, because another skater was spinning somewhere or doing something else and did not see them coming. Eunsoo Lim was already at the edge of the rink, staying out of the way as much as she could. It was not like she appeared out of nowhere just as Mariah was jumping a triple Lutz in her direction. It is of course possible that Mariah didn't notice she hit her. This is the

, at its longest.

 

When it comes to the bullying, you don't know what was going on on the rink.

Saying that someone has a victim mentality while they might actually be a victim is not right. The bullying accusation has just been made, so there has been no research done to disprove it.

American skaters then jumping in the fray, like Adam Rippon saying there was no bullying because he didnt see any when he visited, should also refrain from making such statements.

 

That said, it's also very wrong of people to jump onto Mariah's instagram and bully her there.

It was an OFFICIAL PRACTICE SKATE. Meaning, she gets one and ONLY one chance on competition ice before the actual competition. And the skaters you’ve seen haven’t been going through their programs while their music is playing and they have the right of way.and since they train together Eunsoo should have known where MB was going to be in her program and how far away she needs to be.

 

Oh yea, and Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner? They’ve have both had Raf as their coach and are more familiar of what he is like and what the rink training atmosphere is like then you, me, or the media. Her agency has a victim mentality. While Eunsoo is 16, she is an elite athlete. This is her job. If she can’t help herself by talking to her coach through a translator or her parents then she shouldn’t have moved to train in another country. Instead her agency is speaking for her (if that’s even what she said to them and they didn’t just make it up). People like you claiming that nothing disproves the claims of bullying are actually spreading something that hasn’t been claimed by the skaters themselves and is hurting the reputation of one of them.

[jennaayy]

Papadakis/Cizeron win gold for Ice Dance. Really wish Stepanova/Bukin had medaled instead of Sinitsina/Katsalapov. Also Hubbell/Donohue skating to Romeo & Juliet at their age.... they should've had a better program.

[Riserise]

It was an OFFICIAL PRACTICE SKATE. Meaning, she gets one and ONLY one chance on competition ice before the actual competition. And the skaters you’ve seen haven’t been going through their programs while their music is playing and they have the right of way.and since they train together Eunsoo should have known where MB was going to be in her program and how far away she needs to be.

 

 

Actually, I was specifically talking about when their music was playing. That's what I said in the comment above, so don't twist it.

 

Even in practice skates, it is still human to be concerned when you hit someone.

It is of course possible that Mariah didn't notice, but if she had, it is normal to show concern. Elite athletes have been seen to show concern for each other even during high level competitions, and this remained just a practice, no matter how many times you caps lock the word.

 

Oh yea, and Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner? They’ve have both had Raf as their coach and are more familiar of what he is like and what the rink training atmosphere is like then you, me, or the media. Her agency has a victim mentality. While Eunsoo is 16, she is an elite athlete. This is her job. If she can’t help herself by talking to her coach through a translator or her parents then she shouldn’t have moved to train in another country. Instead her agency is speaking for her (if that’s even what she said to them and they didn’t just make it up). People like you claiming that nothing disproves the claims of bullying are actually spreading something that hasn’t been claimed by the skaters themselves and is hurting the reputation of one of them.

It is true that nothing disproves the claim of bullying. You don't know what's going on on a rink, either, like you said. People get bullied without others noticing all the time. And Adam Rippon isn't even there all the time, as Eunsoo started at the rink only after his last competitive year.

 

I didn't say Mariah bullied, but a complaint was just made, so nothing anybody else says disproves the bullying until it has been investigated. It wasn't just the agency, but Eunsoo's parents as well. I hope you don't claim they have a 'victim mentality' too, without knowing all the facts.

Eunsoo being an elite athlete doesn't mean that it is okay for her to be bullied (if she's bullied). Accepting bullying is not her job.

 

I see a lot of judgements about Eunsoo, who is indeed only 16. I thought claims about bullying were to be taken seriously, but I guess that's not the case when it concerns a foreigner. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Riserise

[Riserise]

Papadakis/Cizeron win gold for Ice Dance. Really wish Stepanova/Bukin had medaled instead of Sinitsina/Katsalapov. Also Hubbell/Donohue skating to Romeo & Juliet at their age.... they should've had a better program.

 

Papadakis/Cizeron for gold was basically a lock

I wonder who their main rivals will be in the coming years leading up to the Olympics.

I hope they will help make figure skating more popular in France.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Riserise

[missprettyfug]

Actually, I was specifically talking about when their music was playing. That's what I said in the comment above, so don't twist it.

 

Even in practice skates, it is still human to be concerned when you hit someone.

It is of course possible that Mariah didn't notice, but if she had, it is normal to show concern. Elite athletes have been seen to show concern for each other even during high level competitions, and this remained just a practice, no matter how many times you caps lock the word.

 

It is true that nothing disproves the claim of bullying. You don't know what's going on on a rink, either, like you said. People get bullied without others noticing all the time. And Adam Rippon isn't even there all the time, as Eunsoo started at the rink only after his last competitive year.

 

I didn't say Mariah bullied, but a complaint was just made, so nothing anybody else says disproves the bullying until it has been investigated. It wasn't just the agency, but Eunsoo's parents as well. I hope you don't claim they have a 'victim mentality' too, without knowing all the facts.

Eunsoo being an elite athlete doesn't mean that it is okay for her to be bullied (if she's bullied). Accepting bullying is not her job.

 

I see a lot of judgements about Eunsoo, who is indeed only 16. I thought claims about bullying were to be taken seriously, but I guess that's not the case when it concerns a foreigner. 

Oh please, Eunsoo is not only 16. She is an elite athlete competing at the highest level, not a baby. If she can't even communicate with her coach or her parents can't talk to her coach then she clearly doesn't belong there. Her coach, Raf, has always been known to be a 'no bullshit' person. He is not a new coach who has never coached athletes. He isn't afraid to call out his athletes  or their families for their behavior as everyone saw with Nathan at the Olympics. Bullying and reckless behavior aren't tolerated with him or his rink. "People get bullied without others noticing all the time" These are elite athletes being watched by coaches, trainers, and other skaters, it is highly unlikely MB would have been able to get away with it with everyone watching. Especially when Raf is there watching.

 

And you clearly don't understand what an official practice skate is. It's the only chance skaters have to skate to their music on competition ice. Whoever's music is playing has the right of way and takes all the ice for the program. Any other skaters on the ice are supposed to get out of the way and keep an eye out to not cause an accident, that's not Mariahs responsibility when her music is on and she's skating. The fact here is Eunsoo wasn't careful enough. She was by the boards but she still wasn't out of MB's way nor was she even looking behind her to check if MB was coming her way.

 

Clearly as shown by the video she didn't notice when she scraped Eunsoo. Shes not supposed to be coddling other skaters if they get in the way. This isn't some random competition, this is World Championships. And this is their careers not some hobby. Just because its a "practice"doesn't make it any less important. There is no time to waste and if MB stopped she would lose major practice time she wouldn't get back. She has only one chance to run her music and that it. 

 

And as ATS has shown, they are willing to exaggerate something to get media coverage. Claiming MB "stabbed and kicked" their athlete; making it seem as if MB took off her boot, hit EL and ran away, when it was a scrape caused by a movement that was always in MB's program. I wouldn't be surprised if they are willing to lie and say EL was bullied too. The completely unprofessional and lack of awareness (or maybe they were aware) of what their little story would do has caused psycho knetz and yuna bots to harass MB on social media, telling her and her family to kill themselves, all while EL is a precious innocent angel who needs to be protected. Get real. ATS is run by Kim Yuna's mother, the same person who caused rifts between Yuna and Orser during and after her career with him. She doesnt have a problem dragging someones name through the mud to look innocent.  

 

Literally no statements have been made directly by EL. It's all coming from her agency. You might think they are helping her but the figure skating community is small and no one is going to forget what her agency tried to pull on MB when the ISU found nothing. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by missprettyfug

[Riserise]

Oh please, Eunsoo is not only 16. She is an elite athlete competing at the highest level, not a baby. If she can't even communicate with her coach or her parents can't talk to her coach then she clearly doesn't belong there. Her coach, Raf, has always been known to be a 'no bullshit' person. He is not a new coach who has never coached athletes. He isn't afraid to call out his athletes  or their families for their behavior as everyone saw with Nathan at the Olympics. Bullying and reckless behavior aren't tolerated with him or his rink. "People get bullied without others noticing all the time" These are elite athletes being watched by coaches, trainers, and other skaters, it is highly unlikely MB would have been able to get away with it with everyone watching. Especially when Raf is there watching.

 

And you clearly don't understand what an official practice skate is. It's the only chance skaters have to skate to their music on competition ice. Whoever's music is playing has the right of way and takes all the ice for the program. Any other skaters on the ice are supposed to get out of the way and keep an eye out to not cause an accident, that's not Mariahs responsibility when her music is on and she's skating. The fact here is Eunsoo wasn't careful enough. She was by the boards but she still wasn't out of MB's way nor was she even looking behind her to check if MB was coming her way.

 

Clearly as shown by the video she didn't notice when she scraped Eunsoo. Shes not supposed to be coddling other skaters if they get in the way. This isn't some random competition, this is World Championships. And this is their careers not some hobby. Just because its a "practice"doesn't make it any less important. There is no time to waste and if MB stopped she would lose major practice time she wouldn't get back. She has only one chance to run her music and that it. 

 

And as ATS has shown, they are willing to exaggerate something to get media coverage. Claiming MB "stabbed and kicked" their athlete; making it seem as if MB took off her boot, hit EL and ran away, when it was a scrape caused by a movement that was always in MB's program. I wouldn't be surprised if they are willing to lie and say EL was bullied too. The completely unprofessional and lack of awareness (or maybe they were aware) of what their little story would do has caused psycho knetz and yuna bots to harass MB on social media, telling her and her family to kill themselves, all while EL is a precious innocent angel who needs to be protected. Get real. ATS is run by Kim Yuna's mother, the same person who caused rifts between Yuna and Orser during and after her career with him. She doesnt have a problem dragging someones name through the mud to look innocent.  

 

Literally no statements have been made directly by EL. It's all coming from her agency. You might think they are helping her but the figure skating community is small and no one is going to forget what her agency tried to pull on MB when the ISU found nothing. 

 

She is only 16. Skating has a lot of young people at the athlete level and that is something that should be taken into account. It is not her job to be bullied, if she was bullied. Her being an elite athlete doesn't mean bullying is something she should suck up, no matter what her age. Her being this young does make her more vulnerable and I find it very strange how hostile some people are in her reactions to her.

The ISU said there is no proof of Mariah doing it deliberately. That's true. However, they can never have investigated bullying claims in such a short amount of time and that's why they haven't made a statement about that.

 

And how do you know what happened between Yuna, her mother and Orser? Were you there? You say rumors shouldn't be spread and yet you make all kinds of assumptions of what happened and state them as fact. Notably, it is always the Koreans at fault and the North Americans in the right, in your narrative.

 

Again, athletes have shown concern for each other even during high level competitions. During official practices, when someone's music is played, the others still keep practicing and sometimes get near the skaters. As I said before even those with right of way have altered their path sometimes when a skater was doing spins or otherwise not seeing them. Right of way does not mean that the skater doing their routine should absolutely not be paying attention and everyone else is constantly paying attention to them. It's not that rigid. Even in

, you can see a third skater is more 'in the way' in the middle of the rink and right near Mariah passing by than Eunsoo, who was skating at the boards.

 

Does that make Mariah guilty of doing it deliberately? No. 

Does that mean there was no bullying? Let it be investigated first before a 16 year old is dragged through the mud and accused of victim mentality or being a baby.

[Riserise]

Yuzuru just gave the audience what they wanted

Edited March 23, 2019 by Riserise

[missprettyfug]

She is only 16. Skating has a lot of young people at the athlete level and that is something that should be taken into account. It is not her job to be bullied, if she was bullied. Her being an elite athlete doesn't mean bullying is something she should suck up, no matter what her age. Her being this young does make her more vulnerable and I find it very strange how hostile some people are in her reactions to her.

The ISU said there is no proof of Mariah doing it deliberately. That's true. However, they can never have investigated bullying claims in such a short amount of time and that's why they haven't made a statement about that.

 

And how do you know what happened between Yuna, her mother and Orser? Were you there? You say rumors shouldn't be spread and yet you make all kinds of assumptions of what happened and state them as fact. Notably, it is always the Koreans at fault and the North Americans in the right, in your narrative.

 

Again, athletes have shown concern for each other even during high level competitions. During official practices, when someone's music is played, the others still keep practicing and sometimes get near the skaters. As I said before even those with right of way have altered their path sometimes when a skater was doing spins or otherwise not seeing them. Right of way does not mean that the skater doing their routine should absolutely not be paying attention and everyone else is constantly paying attention to them. It's not that rigid. Even in

, you can see a third skater is more 'in the way' in the middle of the rink and right near Mariah passing by than Eunsoo, who was skating at the boards.

 

Does that make Mariah guilty of doing it deliberately? No. 

Does that mean there was no bullying? Let it be investigated first before a 16 year old is dragged through the mud and accused of victim mentality or being a baby.

I don't think you've been around for a long time if you think what happened between ATS, the Kims and Orser are just rumors.

 

"Orser said Tuesday that Kim's mother, Park Mi-hee, told him Aug. 2 that he was no longer Kim's coach but gave no reason for the decision. When Orser and fellow coach Tracy Wilson met with Kim last week, Orser said even the skater seemed confused by the events." and then after discussing with her mom only "Kim is still training at the Toronto Cricket, Skating and Curling Club, where she has worked with Orser since 2006. But she has been "more or less" working without a coach since May, AT Sports said, and they have no plans for a new one. Kim announced last month that she is skipping the Grand Prix series and will focus instead on the world championships.". Way to keep your coach for the last few years in the loop.

http://www.espn.com/olympics/figureskating/news/story?id=5492109

 

"A statement from Kim's management company, AT Sports, didn't explain why the South Korean star left Orser, saying only that relations between the skater and coach had been "uncomfortable" since May. But Kim, who turns 20 on Sept. 5, was not at the Aug. 2 meeting featuring her mother, Orser and fellow coach Tracy Wilson, and she continues to train at the Toronto rink where she's worked with Orser since 2006.

"Tracy and I had a meeting with Yu-na on her own last Thursday just to say we're a little confused about what's happening. She just looked at us and said she's confused, too," Orser said. "I don't know how much she was involved in these discussions."

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/figureskating/orser-splits-with-olympic-champion-kim-yu-na-1.930898

 

So yea, this was due to Yuna's moms and ATS meddling. ATS and the Kim's stories never added up. And while Koreans arent always at fault, they've certainly shown in the past they can't control themselves are resort to online abuse and threats when things don't go their way of their athletes are treated unfairly in their eyes. See Apolo Ohno, Adelina Sotnikova, Elise Christie, Kim Boutin. I wouldn't be surprised if this behavior is cultural.

 

There's no point in arguing with you about the importance of official practices in this sport because its pretty evident you have no experience in it yourself and lack any knowledge related to it.

 

And apparently you can't read or maybe english isn't your first language, my first post says "Sound's like an agency with a victim mentality to me." I didn't say Eunsoo has a victim mentality, unless she started this shit all on her own and roped her agency into it.

 

[Riserise]

Nathan was epic. That TES score makes me dizzy.

[Riserise]

I don't think you've been around for a long time if you think what happened between ATS, the Kims and Orser are just rumors.

 

"Orser said Tuesday that Kim's mother, Park Mi-hee, told him Aug. 2 that he was no longer Kim's coach but gave no reason for the decision. When Orser and fellow coach Tracy Wilson met with Kim last week, Orser said even the skater seemed confused by the events." and then after discussing with her mom only "Kim is still training at the Toronto Cricket, Skating and Curling Club, where she has worked with Orser since 2006. But she has been "more or less" working without a coach since May, AT Sports said, and they have no plans for a new one. Kim announced last month that she is skipping the Grand Prix series and will focus instead on the world championships.". Way to keep your coach for the last few years in the loop.

http://www.espn.com/olympics/figureskating/news/story?id=5492109

 

"A statement from Kim's management company, AT Sports, didn't explain why the South Korean star left Orser, saying only that relations between the skater and coach had been "uncomfortable" since May. But Kim, who turns 20 on Sept. 5, was not at the Aug. 2 meeting featuring her mother, Orser and fellow coach Tracy Wilson, and she continues to train at the Toronto rink where she's worked with Orser since 2006.

"Tracy and I had a meeting with Yu-na on her own last Thursday just to say we're a little confused about what's happening. She just looked at us and said she's confused, too," Orser said. "I don't know how much she was involved in these discussions."

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/figureskating/orser-splits-with-olympic-champion-kim-yu-na-1.930898

 

So yea, this was due to Yuna's moms and ATS meddling. ATS and the Kim's stories never added up. And while Koreans arent always at fault, they've certainly shown in the past they can't control themselves are resort to online abuse and threats when things don't go their way of their athletes are treated unfairly in their eyes. See Apolo Ohno, Adelina Sotnikova, Elise Christie, Kim Boutin. I wouldn't be surprised if this behavior is cultural.

 

There's no point in arguing with you about the importance of official practices in this sport because its pretty evident you have no experience in it yourself and lack any knowledge related to it.

 

And apparently you can't read or maybe english isn't your first language, my first post says "Sound's like an agency with a victim mentality to me." I didn't say Eunsoo has a victim mentality, unless she started this shit all on her own and roped her agency into it.

 

 

"Orser said" does not make anything fact. And even what Orser said is much more careful than what you said in your comment before.

You seem absolutely livid in the way you write and try to insult.

It makes your arguments look less valid instead of more, sorry.

[missprettyfug]

"Orser said" does not make anything fact. And even what Orser said is much more careful than what you said in your comment before.

You seem absolutely livid in the way you write and try to insult.

It makes your arguments look less valid instead of more, sorry.

"Orser said" means it came from directly from Orsers mouth. Not an agency or the media. And that was his experience with ATS and the ceo at the time. They are not much different now then they were then. 

 

its not an insult if its fact. You are clueless when it comes to figure skating. A viewer do not equal an actual athlete who has participated in the sport.

Edited March 23, 2019 by missprettyfug