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[Ddboja] Thousands of South Korean women protest against 'spycam pornography'

Molka

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#61 PeachyKeys!

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:25 AM (Edited by PeachyKeys!, 15 June 2018 - 04:28 AM.)

Let’s even condone their hate speech and victim-insulting (not even blaming but almost psychotic bullying of the victim just because it was male) although this convenient attitude allows radfems like Womads to run amok. So what were they claiming or demanding? Everywhere I looked, the following was the main accusation.

The police don’t care about female victims but they worked so fast only because it was a male victim!

That’s eye-catching. That’s outrageous. Except that it is a completely unsubstantiated claim. The Hongdae case was fairly easy to solve because the suspect was obviously one of the attendees in the class. It still took 12 days to catch her. There were many other cases where the male perpetrator was caught much faster. If anything, there are academic papers that show Korean men tend to be punished more harshly than Korean women for similar crimes. I haven’t seen any paper or article that claims otherwise. They can take a seat regarding this ‘partiality’ accusation. This is not the first time they pulled this. Are you aware of the Gangnam / Hannam Patch incident from a couple of years ago?

2 arrested for falsely outing sex workers on Instagram

Initially, Korean feminists were asking the police to catch the misogynistic perpetrators as fast as possible and the police did so. And….both criminals turned out to be female. Immediately, those feminists pulled a 180 on the issue and accused the police of ‘working too fast’ only because they knew the suspects were female. Of course, this is completely ridiculous nonsense paranoia by any standards but you know what? They even proudly staged a protest in real life because of that. I know it’s hard to believe. The police caught the misogynistic criminals too fast just because they were female! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. They care the least about actual female victims who are merely tools for their agenda. All they care about is latching onto the cases where the victim is female and the criminal is male. Then they can conjure up some wild claims more easily. At that time, at least, there were very few protesters. I mean, it’s too stupid, right? We could just laugh and ignore them. With the spycam issue, however, they were able to instigate and mobilize a lot more people on their side. At least it’s for a much more legitimate issue, isn’t it?

The radfems always seek to strengthen their victim narrative as much as possible because that is at the core of their perpetual excuse for despicable behavior. You need to take their claims with a huge grain of salt even when they are seemingly based on something. You need to do your own research. For sure, there ARE spycam crimes. The number of offences was increasing along with the new technologies each year although it dropped in 2016.

I already linked a mainstream news article about how they couldn’t find a single spycam from 65,000 public places where women have to undress themselves in Seoul in 2016. When people hear spycam crimes, they tend to picture some artfully hidden cameras filming naked victims. The reality is that the majority of spycam offences happen in open public spaces, notably in the subway. Even if some guy thought a passerby girl was pretty and took a full-clothed picture of her without her consent, he can still be charged with a spycam offence under the special sex crime law if the particular content of the image is deemed to cause ‘sexual humiliation’. Of course, this leads to a lot of inconsistency and ambiguity in many cases. These cases aren’t even illegal in the US, UK or maybe the majority of the world. Where else do you think taking these pictures (marked with '유죄') on the street would be considered illegal?

http://i65.tinypic.com/6ekj7k.jpg...
http://i67.tinypic.com/9hna1f.jpg...
http://i66.tinypic.com/t7cwaf.jpg...

No matter how minor your offence is, once you are convicted with a spycam crime, your personal information becomes available in public and you are banned from working for certain places for 10 years. Some things are pretty strict in Korea.

Under the current law, using a spycam without consent or distributing spycam images is subject to imprisonment for up to 5 years or a fine of up to 10 million won. If you distribute them on a public network for profits, you can be imprisoned for up to 7 years or fined up to 30 million won. This is to be strengthened so that distributors always go to jail. The Korean government announced their comprehensive digital sex crime measures last Fall. I think online distribution is the most hideous and humiliating aspect of the crime. Unfortunately, it becomes very difficult to handle when the distribution happens on the websites based on foreign servers outside Korean jurisdiction. For example, Tumblr refused to aid Korean authorities’ investigation before. The victims will be devastated but honestly, I don't know what can be effectively done.

So exactly what do those protesters want? As far as I’ve seen, they didn’t even say anything legal in concrete terms in their statements. Nothing coherent or nod-inducing. They surely were into vulgar signs, slogans and chants.


Some I-nets may never get it. We aren’t talking about Han Seo Hee level of rather benign hypocritical ‘feminists’. We are talking about completely nutty people who are using the feminism excuse for their uncontrolled behavior. Generally unpleasant people you wouldn't want to breathe the same air with. Until these I-nets experience them first-hand on a regular basis, they just won’t get it, and will continue to brush them off. It looks like sometimes they just project their own country’s state of feminism onto the Korean situation. The current state of mainstream Korean feminism is too much riddled with lack of rationality and integrity. Their masterminds instruct this or that and every pawn goes waaaaah...

Anyways, I said what I said.

Keep talking about condoning shitty/illegal behaviour to derail the point of this march if you need to. That can be dealt with. What also needs to be dealt with? Molka. More deeply? Gender inequalities. Which seems to be a super hard concept for some men to wrap their heads around, but such is life.
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#62 Substation

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 09:14 AM

and that might be the case everywhere in the west but can you swear that they are treated equally?
 We don't always practice the law
for example in South 'America, Argentina where the violence against women is an issue because the judges don't practice the existing law about women who are  murdered by men specifically. You make a research to know what i'm talking about, cause english is not my first language and it's a little hard to explain..

We all know legal rights aren’t always perfectly practiced by the book in real life especially if there is corruption or incompetency. In some countries, it may be worse. Nevertheless, it doesn’t change the fact that the legal rights form the foundation one can resort to. If something is clearly unfair, you can confidently claim it is unfair according to the law and you will get supporters. To be accurate, the Korean Constitution states all citizens carry the duty of national defense. But in practice, females aren’t required to do anything because the conscription law only applies to males for some reason and they aren't allowed to start at the bottom of the non-commissioned chain. This is openly legal ‘discrimination’ against both men and women.

 

There are all sorts of social inequality in society that all deserve attention. Although gender inequality is one of the important issues, it isn’t the beginning and end of it all. If you use what’s unequal for females to justify something unequal for men, others can do the same in different social groupings where you are perceived to be on the privileged side. It’s very hard to say upper class heterosexual Korean women are generally less privileged than working class homosexual Korean men just because of their gender. This consideration for ‘intersectionality’ is severely lacking in the current feminist discourse in Korea. A lot of arguments stay on the level of women = victims although gender inequality shouldn’t be just about female victimization.
 

its probably because most inetz don't know korean and can't see these types of things - most rely on translations such as what is in this thread..
 
also the pictures are pretty interesting, because someone i follow on twitter RTd a journalist who shared some pictures of the protest but none of them looked like that.

It’s as if according to the mainstream Korean media’s guidelines, they can’t show anything negative about feminism. Also the journalists who write about Korean feminism are often biased feminists themselves. Apart from the feminists, a lot of netizens talk about this ‘disparity’. If you are protesting and marching for a righteous cause on the street, you would normally want everyone to watch you, hear you and support you. However, they were loud in public yet secretive. They limited who can film them and they were all blurred out on TV.
 

Anyways, I said what I said.

Keep talking about condoning shitty/illegal behaviour to derail the point of this march if you need to. That can be dealt with. What also needs to be dealt with? Molka. More deeply? Gender inequalities. Which seems to be a super hard concept for some men to wrap their heads around, but such is life.

You do what you want to do. You talk about what you want to talk about. Just don’t talk like nothing else matters, silencing other voices, especially informed ones. That’s it.


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#63 Serechan

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 11:11 AM

I hope this movement helps them. Those who are downvoting are trash
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#64 remembering

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:15 PM (Edited by remembering, 15 June 2018 - 12:15 PM.)

Regardless of the subtext that is going on in Korea with Womad and the rest, peeping tom cases should be investigated thoroughly and culprits be punished severely be it a man or a woman. Nobody should have their privacy invaded. Also, revenge porn should be outlawed.
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#65 Fake Love BTS comeback

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

We all know legal rights aren’t always perfectly practiced by the book in real life especially if there is corruption or incompetency. In some countries, it may be worse. Nevertheless, it doesn’t change the fact that the legal rights form the foundation one can resort to. If something is clearly unfair, you can confidently claim it is unfair according to the law and you will get supporters. To be accurate, the Korean Constitution states all citizens carry the duty of national defense. But in practice, females aren’t required to do anything because the conscription law only applies to males for some reason and they aren't allowed to start at the bottom of the non-commissioned chain. This is openly legal ‘discrimination’ against both men and women.

 

There are all sorts of social inequality in society that all deserve attention. Although gender inequality is one of the important issues, it isn’t the beginning and end of it all. If you use what’s unequal for females to justify something unequal for men, others can do the same in different social groupings where you are perceived to be on the privileged side. It’s very hard to say upper class heterosexual Korean women are generally less privileged than working class homosexual Korean men just because of their gender. This consideration for ‘intersectionality’ is severely lacking in the current feminist discourse in Korea. A lot of arguments stay on the level of women = victims although gender inequality shouldn’t be just about female victimization.
 

 

solving one problem at a time is good.

The suggestion of not making it a gender issue is out there for decades but it's only a way to deflect the attention from problems that women and only women have to deal with, in a partriachal society.

Men should give their own fights for equality in this hierarchical system that demeans most of them. Toxic masculinity affects all of them badly. But i don't think every man is willing to change the problem that they create themselves from being macho. I mean look at Trump, the most influential president said recently he is a tough guy and he respects kim because he's tough too. It's ridiculous, so i support the men who want to change this kind of unequality and power abuse between men.

You seem to be well aware of the subject and it's interesting to talk about it but because it's a little difficult for me to use english i won't say more.. thank yousmile.png


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#66 Yoonability

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:13 PM

whenever there’s a thread about feminism i seriously question why i’m on this site


lmao same
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#67 Substation

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 11:20 AM

solving one problem at a time is good.

The suggestion of not making it a gender issue is out there for decades but it's only a way to deflect the attention from problems that women and only women have to deal with, in a partriachal society.

Men should give their own fights for equality in this hierarchical system that demeans most of them. Toxic masculinity affects all of them badly. But i don't think every man is willing to change the problem that they create themselves from being macho. I mean look at Trump, the most influential president said recently he is a tough guy and he respects kim because he's tough too. It's ridiculous, so i support the men who want to change this kind of unequality and power abuse between men.

You seem to be well aware of the subject and it's interesting to talk about it but because it's a little difficult for me to use english i won't say more.. thank youhttps://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

 

Your English is perfectly fine. I get what you are saying.

 

The spycam issue IS a gendered issue because the victims are overwhelmingly female. The government and media take it more seriously than ever. However, spycam crimes won't disappear just like any other crimes won't in any sizable human population. New types of crimes will keep emerging with newly available technologies. Online phishing was an unimaginable crime before the internet. We can only keep fighting while raising awareness. I don't think it's too much to ask the radfems to GTFO in this continuous process. They completely go against the spirit of mutual understanding, support and alliance. They incite hatred and division. In the end, what will they achieve when they try their best to turn half of the population and more into their enemies? They are also one of social problems. That's what I keep saying.

 

Korean radfems are some of the most openly sexist and misogynistic people you will ever encounter. Talk to calm, rational, independently-thinking Korean females. They are upset and tired, too. On one hand, you don't want to give the crazies any power or screen time. On the other hand, some of their complaints are actually relevant just like even a broken clock is right twice a day. They are growing day by day with this strategy. It's like you get dumbfounded and angry at the KKK complaining about some social problems even if some of their complaints are not baseless beside some lies or exaggerations. You can choose to completely ignore the KKK part in this. But can you shut down those who are angry at the KKK? At some point, you will have to tackle them down. That doesn't mean the other social problem will be ignored. I didn't say any rocket science stuff here. I think I made myself pretty clear.


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#68 Gerick

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:16 PM

Regardless of the subtext that is going on in Korea with Womad and the rest, peeping tom cases should be investigated thoroughly and culprits be punished severely be it a man or a woman. Nobody should have their privacy invaded. Also, revenge porn should be outlawed.


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