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British defense secretary says warship bound for South China Sea


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#1 NiIo

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:04 AM

British defense secretary says warship bound for South China Sea: media

SYDNEY (Reuters) - A British warship will sail through the South China Sea next month to assert freedom-of-navigation rights, British Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said in remarks published on Tuesday.

British officials first flagged the voyage six months ago and the journey is likely to stoke tensions with China, who claim control of most of the area and have built military facilities on land features in the sea. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims to the energy-rich sea that carries billion of dollars in trade.

The frigate HMS Sutherland will sail through the region after a visit to Australia, Williamson said in an interview with The Australian newspaper.

“She’ll be sailing through the South China Sea (on the way home) and making it clear our navy has a right to do that,” he said, according to the newspaper.

Williamson did not specify whether it would sail within 12 nautical miles of any disputed territory, according to the paper. Several U.S. Navy ships have made their own freedom-of-navigation journeys that drew stern rebukes from Beijing.

Speaking in Beijing, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said he was aware of the comments.

“All countries in accordance with international law enjoy freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea. There is no disagreement on this,” Geng said.

“The situation on the South China Sea is also improving with each day. We hope all relevant sides especially those outside the region can respect the efforts made by regional countries,” he added.

“Like I said last week, currently the South China Sea is calm and tranquil and we hope relevant sides don’t try to create trouble out of nothing.”

In the interview, Williamson also encouraged Australia to “do more” in a region where it has conducted surveillance flights, but not freedom-of-navigation voyages of its own.

“The U.S. is looking for other countries to do more. This is a great opportunity for the UK and Australia to do more, to exercise leadership,” he said.

China’s construction of islands and military facilities in the South China Sea has prompted international condemnation, amid concern Beijing is seeking to restrict free movement and extend its strategic reach.

The Association of South East Asian Nations is hoping to expedite negotiations with China on a code of conduct for the South China Sea, Singapore’s defense minister said last week.

However, the initial talks have failed to reach a consensus on making the code binding which has already raised concerns as to its effectiveness.

Reporting by Tom Westbrook; Additional reporting by Philip Wen in BEIJING; Editing by Christian Schmollinger

https://www.reuters....a-idUSKBN1FX0TG

Good. Hopefully, Australia sends its own warships to the South China Sea.


#2 #goddamnitkongwee

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:11 AM

Many passages in SCS are open under UNCLOS. Beside PLA Navy have escort ship to monitor other country warship under 9 dash line.




#3 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:21 AM

I wouldnt believe China gov words. They openly protect dozens illegal fishing boats in Indonesia territory, Military ship blocking indo warship chasing them, and leaving in tow after protecting those thieves flank. wtf are you doing 2500 miles south here.




#4 Queen's Mine

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:13 AM (Edited by Queen's Mine, 13 February 2018 - 05:14 AM.)

I wouldnt believe China gov words. They openly protect dozens illegal fishing boats in Indonesia territory, Military ship blocking indo warship chasing them, and leaving in tow after protecting those thieves flank. wtf are you doing 2500 miles south here.



Cause Indonesia's EEZ is cutting each other with China's 9 dash line.

Chinas-9-dash-line.jpg

China's 9 dash line already exist way before UNCLOS exist / EEZ exist.


#5 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:30 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 06:33 AM.)

Cause Indonesia's EEZ is cutting each other with China's 9 dash line.

http://www.ellentordesillas.com/wp-conte...

China's 9 dash line already exist way before UNCLOS exist / EEZ exist.

So china self proclaimed territory should be accepted by everyone ? by that logic, all sea south of indo and part of south pole should be indonesia territory lol 

 

by your logic, british own half the worlds.

 

and here another info, indo territory formed in 1945, nine dash line old claim (11 dash line) formed in 1947

Do you know what answer your government answer when asked about 9-dash line in indonesia territory ?

They said it's "traditional fishing ground" not their territory lol

China the only country who own "traditional fishing ground" in the world.

 

And you have no evidence of owning those sea beside their name which caused indo will change the sea name soon, which in turn make china government panicked and ask everyone calm down. When the sea name changed, international oganization will change the sea name based on owner of related territory wish. And no more south china sea , except small part china own.




#6 #goddamnitkongwee

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:05 AM (Edited by Onehallyu#1NiceKongWeeOppa, 13 February 2018 - 07:05 AM.)

So china self proclaimed territory should be accepted by everyone ? by that logic, all sea south of indo and part of south pole should be indonesia territory lol 

 

by your logic, british own half the worlds.

 

and here another info, indo territory formed in 1945, nine dash line old claim (11 dash line) formed in 1947

Do you know what answer your government answer when asked about 9-dash line in indonesia territory ?

They said it's "traditional fishing ground" not their territory lol

China the only country who own "traditional fishing ground" in the world.

 

And you have no evidence of owning those sea beside their name which caused indo will change the sea name soon, which in turn make china government panicked and ask everyone calm down. When the sea name changed, international oganization will change the sea name based on owner of related territory wish. And no more south china sea , except small part china own.

If Indonesian territorial water don't touch 9 dash line.

http://img.jakpost.n...3660._large.jpg

http://www.thejakart...nd-the-sea.html




#7 Queen's Mine

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:41 AM

So china self proclaimed territory should be accepted by everyone ? by that logic, all sea south of indo and part of south pole should be indonesia territory lol

by your logic, british own half the worlds.

and here another info, indo territory formed in 1945, nine dash line old claim (11 dash line) formed in 1947
Do you know what answer your government answer when asked about 9-dash line in indonesia territory ?
They said it's "traditional fishing ground" not their territory lol
China the only country who own "traditional fishing ground" in the world.

And you have no evidence of owning those sea beside their name which caused indo will change the sea name soon, which in turn make china government panicked and ask everyone calm down. When the sea name changed, international oganization will change the sea name based on owner of related territory wish. And no more south china sea , except small part china own.



:lol: go ahead claim on South Pole, in fact England already claim South Pole long time ago.

Hmmmm.... u didn't know? Well half the world was English colony in the past.

:har::har::har: do you even know what EEZ or UNCLOS is?

True Indonesia is independent in 1945 but there is no EEZ or UNCLOS during that time. Also Indonesia borders during that time ain't clear either.


No evidence? :har::har::har:

Here

Spoiler


Study again :derp:


#8 KohSung

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:42 AM (Edited by KohSung, 13 February 2018 - 08:10 AM.)

 

 

So china self proclaimed territory should be accepted by everyone ? by that logic, all sea south of indo and part of south pole should be indonesia territory lol 

 

by your logic, british own half the worlds.

 

and here another info, indo territory formed in 1945, nine dash line old claim (11 dash line) formed in 1947

Do you know what answer your government answer when asked about 9-dash line in indonesia territory ?

They said it's "traditional fishing ground" not their territory lol

China the only country who own "traditional fishing ground" in the world.

 

And you have no evidence of owning those sea beside their name which caused indo will change the sea name soon, which in turn make china government panicked and ask everyone calm down. When the sea name changed, international oganization will change the sea name based on owner of related territory wish. And no more south china sea , except small part china own.

 

 Please remember this if Indonesian boats are caught fishing illegally in Chinese territory. There are many countries that fish in that area right? So there's bound to be disputes. Malaysia, Vietnam, Phillipines....China is also part of that area so they also have the right to be in those waters. If Chinese warships were in Indonesian waters illegally, then I agree they did wrong and the government handled the situation badly. But if British send warships to Asia, do you think that's a good thing? British colonized most of the world in some way. They won't say they own half the world but British imperialists had that same mindset when they went to Malaysia, India, Africa, Australia.   

 

DerangedDogs is trying to poison you with his hate. That is what he is doing. He also posted an article that was very racist towards Indonesia and mocked you. This is what racists in the West do. If you search up the title with the word Indonesian, he posts a derogatory comment at the end of his article that he posted and the only article he posted about Indonesia was one where he tried to demonize you guys. Tell me, why does he post that article about Indonesia? One that purposefully paints you in a bad light and demonize you?     

 

The OP is trying to make you hate China/Chinese. Remember when you called Chinese tourists barbaric? Would you like it if people called Indonesian tourists barbaric? Or tried to vilify your country and people and non-Indonesians started to think that Indonesians were all monsters?   

 

Shall we name the sea South Indonesian Sea then? So then Indonesia can control who enters and who passes? A name is a name. It could be called the South British Sea tomorrow or South Australian Sea. Both China and Indonesia should just seek how to minimize conflict and handle these situations in the future. Aren't there Chinese living in Indonesia? Ethnic Chinese? All I'm trying to say is that please don't let hate win. I read that in the past ethnic Chinese were killed in Indonesia because of anti-Chinese sentiment among Indonesians. I can picture this happening again because of people like DerangedDogs who only has hate in his heart and wants to spread that to others.

 

I'm not saying you're anti-Chinese. I want to be friends with you. I don't want to make war. Just want to make love.     




#9 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:20 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 08:23 AM.)

If Indonesian territorial water don't touch 9 dash line.

http://img.jakpost.n...3660._large.jpg

http://www.thejakart...nd-the-sea.html

Despite having made the vague claim public in 1947, China had not (as of 2014) filed a formal and specifically defined claim to the area within the dashes.[12] China added a tenth-dash line to the east of Taiwan island in 2013 as a part of its official sovereignty claim to the disputed territories in the South China Sea.[11][13][14]

 

Can you show china claim 9 dash line to UN earlier than ZEE are made by UNCLOS ? because china never bring this issue until they made sea base on human made island. 

If you dont bring it to UN and only self-proclaimed it. Then there's no rules to follow for everyone 

Indo current territory are already based on UNCLOS. It's just like china independence earlier, you dont own shanghai or hongkong. or even the current taiwan. You own them after years of diplomacy and make use of UN territorial laws.

 

Later UNCLOS made rule for archipelago country like Indonesia, Philiphine , etc. And define clear Indonesia territory Agreed by the UN. Not self proclaimed. 

 

Maybe you should read this.

https://www.washingt...slands-to-indo/

 

China representative already admit indo sovereignity over natuna island. the very reason they only said it's fishing ground since long ago, and admit indo own it. next time your army should be on indo part of 9 dash line if it's really yours. dont run away as usual.

 

I think you havent read this before put it on link.

http://www.thejakart...nd-the-sea.html

 

Because that's how indonesia legally through diplomacy define their territory. Not through coercion and weapon. smile.png  




#10 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:28 AM

https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot... go ahead claim on South Pole, in fact England already claim South Pole long time ago.

Hmmmm.... u didn't know? Well half the world was English colony in the past.

https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot... do you even know what EEZ or UNCLOS is?

True Indonesia is independent in 1945 but there is no EEZ or UNCLOS during that time. Also Indonesia borders during that time ain't clear either.


No evidence? https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

Here

Spoiler


Study again https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

I talk about indo one, not the rest of the SEA country, you come at the wrong person 0u0plz.png

 

and none of your so called "proof" actually even telling anything about indo smile.png

 

You just proved that china have nothing against indonesia territory in 9 dash line.




#11 Queen's Mine

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:33 AM

I talk about indo one, not the rest of the SEA country, you come at the wrong person https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

and none of your so called "proof" actually even telling anything about indo https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

You just proved that china have nothing against indonesia territory in 9 dash line.




That just Sum up of whole dispute.

Here the China Legal documents on UN

1992 UNCLOS and 1996 UNCLOS, China's declaration and ratification


http://www.un.org/de...HN_1992_Law.pdf


http://www.un.org/de...on ratification

main-qimg-b2b7dbdb562b96b517cd58b19552bb

main-qimg-dc27abd53ad36e9ca76a3bfdf85d25


#12 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:37 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 08:49 AM.)

 Please remember this if Indonesian boats are caught fishing illegally in Chinese territory. There are many countries that fish in that area right? So there's bound to be disputes. Malaysia, Vietnam, Phillipines....China is also part of that area so they also have the right to be in those waters. If Chinese warships were in Indonesian waters illegally, then I agree they did wrong and the government handled the situation badly. But if British send warships to Asia, do you think that's a good thing? British colonized most of the world in some way. They won't say they own half the world but British imperialists had that same mindset when they went to Malaysia, India, Africa, Australia.   

 

DerangedDogs is trying to poison you with his hate. That is what he is doing. He also posted an article that was very racist towards Indonesia and mocked you. This is what racists in the West do. If you search up the title with the word Indonesian, he posts a derogatory comment at the end of his article that he posted and the only article he posted about Indonesia was one where he tried to demonize you guys. Tell me, why does he post that article about Indonesia? One that purposefully paints you in a bad light and demonize you?     

 

The OP is trying to make you hate China/Chinese. Remember when you called Chinese tourists barbaric? Would you like it if people called Indonesian tourists barbaric? Or tried to vilify your country and people and non-Indonesians started to think that Indonesians were all monsters?   

 

Shall we name the sea South Indonesian Sea then? So then Indonesia can control who enters and who passes? A name is a name. It could be called the South British Sea tomorrow or South Australian Sea. Both China and Indonesia should just seek how to minimize conflict and handle these situations in the future. Aren't there Chinese living in Indonesia? Ethnic Chinese? All I'm trying to say is that please don't let hate win. I read that in the past ethnic Chinese were killed in Indonesia because of anti-Chinese sentiment among Indonesians. I can picture this happening again because of people like DerangedDogs who only has hate in his heart and wants to spread that to others.

 

I'm not saying you're anti-Chinese. I want to be friends with you. I don't want to make war. Just want to make love.     

 

Maybe you should read this thoroughly before you come back

http://www.thanhnien...tion-28816.html

 

China trying to push agenda of fishing right in 9 dash line, now i ask you, would you be ok if other countries fishing on east china sea ?

 

i believe korean should use that as their traditional fishing ground too traditionally :)




#13 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:43 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 08:51 AM.)

That just Sum up of whole dispute.

Here the China Legal documents on UN

1992 UNCLOS and 1996 UNCLOS, China's declaration and ratification


http://www.un.org/de...HN_1992_Law.pdf


http://www.un.org/de...on ratification

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b2...

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc...

 

Still useless, no proof or anything against indo part of 9-dash line, you are bringing useless articles into discussion.

Those ramification even happen after Indo region unchanging since 1982 unclos declaration. And no territorial change of Indonesia.

 

Also you can read this , so you know how Indo sea territory approved by UN

http://www.thejakart...nd-the-sea.html

It's through constant diplomacy and with approval of UN.




#14 #goddamnitkongwee

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:50 AM

Despite having made the vague claim public in 1947, China had not (as of 2014) filed a formal and specifically defined claim to the area within the dashes.[12] China added a tenth-dash line to the east of Taiwan island in 2013 as a part of its official sovereignty claim to the disputed territories in the South China Sea.[11][13][14]

 

Can you show china claim 9 dash line to UN earlier than ZEE are made by UNCLOS ? because china never bring this issue until they made sea base on human made island. 

If you dont bring it to UN and only self-proclaimed it. Then there's no rules to follow for everyone 

Indo current territory are already based on UNCLOS. It's just like china independence earlier, you dont own shanghai or hongkong. or even the current taiwan. You own them after years of diplomacy and make use of UN territorial laws.

 

Later UNCLOS made rule for archipelago country like Indonesia, Philiphine , etc. And define clear Indonesia territory Agreed by the UN. Not self proclaimed. 

 

Maybe you should read this.

https://www.washingt...slands-to-indo/

 

China representative already admit indo sovereignity over natuna island. the very reason they only said it's fishing ground since long ago, and admit indo own it. next time your army should be on indo part of 9 dash line if it's really yours. dont run away as usual.

 

I think you havent read this before put it on link.

http://www.thejakart...nd-the-sea.html

 

Because that's how indonesia legally through diplomacy define their territory. Not through coercion and weapon. https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...  

All you need to know it your territorial water. It is already fixed in 1945. You don't cross the 11-dash that is fixed in 1947. EZZ rule only come after 1982. Your EZZ are not legitimate.

 

This is what UNCLOS recognized. 

 http://www.un.org/De...TEFILES/IDN.htmidn_mzn67_2009.jpg

If news articles has higher authority than UNCLOS then I have nothing to say.smile.png




#15 Queen's Mine

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:51 AM

Still useless, no proof or anything against indo part of 9-dash line, you are bringing useless articles into discussion.
Those ramification even happen after Indo region unchanging since 1982 unclos declaration. And no territorial change of Indonesia.



This Indonesia territories in 1945

2017_06_22_29035_1498113660._large.jpg


"1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf."

Again..... 9 dash line already exist long way before UNCLOS / EEZ exist.

The concept EEZ exist only in 1982.


#16 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:13 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 09:18 AM.)

This Indonesia territories in 1945

http://img.jakpost.net/c/2017/06/22/2017...


"1. In accordance with the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the People's Republic of China shall enjoy sovereign rights and jurisdiction over an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical miles and the continental shelf."

Again..... 9 dash line already exist long way before UNCLOS / EEZ exist.

The concept EEZ exist only in 1982.

 

You mistake self-declared territory with Territory that's righfully approved by everyone. China claim in 1947 was 11 dash, which changed later into 10 and later change again into 9. which make It's really bogus, can people territory keep changing, not to mention it's self-proclaimed, so it change so easily.

 

And dont talk about EEZ with indo, because indo is the country who made UNCLOS law for archipelago passed. and that's included the EEZ.

 

And why you keep showing indo map in 1945, what's your poin ? should i show map when hongkong and shanghai not part of PLA ? or even taiwan ?

 

and i just read the one who claimed 11 dash line for china actually treated as traitor by PLA and treated badly until he died. rlytearpls.png




#17 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:40 AM

All you need to know it your territorial water. It is already fixed in 1945. You don't cross the 11-dash that is fixed in 1947. EZZ rule only come after 1982. Your EZZ are not legitimate.

 

This is what UNCLOS recognized. 

 http://www.un.org/De...TEFILES/IDN.htmhttp://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONA...

If news articles has higher authority than UNCLOS then I have nothing to say.https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

 

Oh my god, you put 1945 territory that's approved by UN vs 1947 self proclaimed territory that's not even approved by anyone into equation.

 

That's like compared legal paper currency vs self made currency, see my point ?




#18 #goddamnitkongwee

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:52 AM

Oh my god, you put 1945 territory that's approved by UN vs 1947 self proclaimed territory that's not even approved by anyone into equation.

 

That's like compared legal paper currency vs self made currency, see my point ?

My point you have no EZZ. ROC has the legitimate map. ROC has all the treaty and declaration that state all location that approved by US and Japan after WWII.

1024px-1947_Nanhai_Zhudao.png

Also there is no UN body to regulate the sovereignty of a nation. smile.png




#19 RenM

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:57 AM (Edited by RenM, 13 February 2018 - 10:00 AM.)

My point you have no EZZ. ROC has the legitimate map. ROC has all the treaty and declaration that state all location that approved by US and Japan after WWII.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...

Also there is no UN body to regulate the sovereignty of a nation. https://onehallyu.com//public/style_emot...

 

Yes there's for sea, called UNCLOS.........

 

Do you know why china use 9-dash line ? instead of normal lines like most country including indonesia 1945, 

i want to know whether you actually know the reason. 




#20 Queen's Mine

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:05 AM

Oh my god, you put 1945 territory that's approved by UN vs 1947 self proclaimed territory that's not even approved by anyone into equation.

That's like compared legal paper currency vs self made currency, see my point ?



Self proclaimed territory? :lol:

Again read this.

1992 UNCLOS and 1996 UNCLOS, China's declaration and ratification


http://www.un.org/de...HN_1992_Law.pdf


http://www.un.org/de...on ratification

main-qimg-b2b7dbdb562b96b517cd58b19552bb

main-qimg-dc27abd53ad36e9ca76a3bfdf85d25





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