Which male idols do you think are gay?

[OptimusPremier]

5 hours ago, kiyatix said:

Idk how popular this opinion is these days but I lean towards straight. The mistranslation issue seemed to be the biggest factor in the bi yoongi belief so after understanding that I changed my mind. 

Are you saying that you used to believe Yoongi was bi just because other people did too?

Personally I think he's gay and I don't base my opinion on lyrics (I'm not gonna post receipts though, I've done it enough for Yoongi and I'm drained yhtgrfed)

(Edit : quoted some receipts I posted in the past)

On 1/5/2021 at 6:23 AM, OptimusPremier said:

Yoongi straight, I have to stand up. So first-off, Yoongi was all about that "armys are my girlfriends, armys who date are betrayers, keep your finger empty for me etc" in 2014 - 2015 but starting from 2016 he stopped giving a shit (did he realise he wasn't straight or was he just tired of pretending he was?):

 

 

 

Back in 2013 at the beginning, his "ideal type" answers were either gender-neutral, a very thorough description of himself or trolling like "girl with high-tech phone", "girl with headphones" "who wears streetwear" etc (he started playing fans' boyfriend in 2014-2015).

He thoroughly described his male ideal type (macho, with beard and tanned skin, Cha Heungwon-like, which by the way he went straight for the hug when he met him, seemingly taken the actor by surprise a bit) or talking about making-up stories about a male athlete and a male singer he used to follow.

Also the context for "my heart doesn't flutter for men" is this, which just looks like panicky back-tracking because he was ranting about Hobi's charms:

And that's without even mentioning his statement "Everyone's equal" when questioned about same-sex love (the only one who spoke up)

Now this :

I don't think that he was trying to seduce that guy, but the fact that he thought about this sexual move to "battle-brag" against another guy says something about him like saying he can make guys come with his tongue to brag about his rap says something about him. Like Hoseok moans in pleasure in the background of the lyrics and y'all are like "Semantics!"

He says "It's not limited to a girl" or even according to some translators "it's not exclusively/limited to heterosexuality", you say that it was "lost in translation". I'm not saying he came out, but it felt purposeful that he didn't want to talk about an ideal girl.

He says "There's nothing wrong [with same-sex love]. Everyone's equal." Well he must be supportive (even though a very supportive Namjoon was carefully choosing his words, much vaguer in comparison)

He wore LGBT limited edition Vans only available in stores. Oh, must be the stylists' choice (right, they saw LGBT shoes and thought "oh that's totally Yoongi" not sure how it makes a point)

"Someone who's masculine. I like masculine, macho type with beard. Line Wonbin-ssi or Cha Seunghyun-sunbaenim." Ok this one I didn't see much denials at least jhgflkjhgfrt

In 2013-2014, he was strangely going back-and-forth: when he was made to wear the maid dress, he said "Hip-hop is dead" shamefully, before taking a pretty kind of selca in the dress (which I think ties with his identity struggles as a rapper) or he ranted about Hoseok's "charms" before saying "My heart doesn't flutter for him! Because... my heart doesn't flutter for men [laughs]" (My guess is that his heart did flutter for Hoseok).

He also rubbed a towel all over Jimin's abs in the shower (he did show more or less attraction for all the members at some points, like saying Namjoon's exposed chest was erotic, and I could do an entire post of him checking them out). 

He wrote fanfics about a male singer and a male athlete he used to follow (whether together or separately that's a specific type of fanboying over men that is rare to see in straight guys)

His story with Zhoumi was intriguing (Zhoumi said in a chinese interview that Yoongi regularly showed up at night in his home, waking him up, and when they asked "how?" he said that Yoongi had his home password, they asked "to do what" and he said "drink coffee". Like coffee? In the middle of the night? They had a 7-years age difference and had known for a few months in 2014, but still used banmal between them. When Yoongi described his ideal male type quoted above, Zhoumi said "I'm disappointed. I thought he would say me because we're close." Zhoumi used to attend BTS concerts but in 2016, they suddenly stopped mentioning each other altogether.)

His story about his male friend in Spring Day and Dear My Friend, although I think that one might really be about just a friend, it's possible that Yoongi didn't see him as such ("I hate you and as I say these words I miss you even more" seem a bit intense for just a friend, especially dedicating him 2 songs about longing).

What would you do in the Little Mermaid's place ? "I'll choose to keep my legs. Half-fish, half-human? We can still learn sign language. The Prince will understand if he loves me that much, but without legs... [laughs] it won't be easy..." Like he went full-on introspection and I have a small hunch of what wouldn't be so easy to do with the Prince without legs... Other guys didn't get so personal or detailed for the same question, didn't imagine themselves with the Prince like this. (Jimin came the closest to, but kept it short and vague)

This is without mentioning stuff that is debatable like asking for Daniel's number on their first meeting. Also very debatable, but I wonder if Seo Taiji and him didn't flirt a bit during rehearsal for the 25th anniversary concert thing (just a thing I wondered after seeing videos from Seo Taiji's side, nothing much).

Yoongi is straight-forward and not a man of many words. He always says meaningful things about studying, having a dream, anxiety, but when he says stuff like that, he didn't mean it? I mean put 2 and 2, he might be just good at dropping those things without caring and it flies over most people's heads. But in a gay thread, I didn't expect it to get over ours. 

He's one of the idols with the most receipts that doesn't involve shipping or kinky stuff.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:42 AM, kiyatix said:

I'm saying I used to take receipts as indication he was bi and the Japanese interview was the biggest reason for that. Once I changed my view on what he meant, everything else became not notable enough 

So you dismissed all of the receipts because he didn't actually come out in this particular japanese interview? (who genuinely thought he did? i felt like he just didn't want to talk about an ideal girl, that's what makes it a receipt among other many times he dodged girl questions starting from 2016) 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, so I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh but I'm tired and dumbfounded about what this thread has become that Jimin wearing sparkly make-up on stage/smirking at that guy in Malta, or Taehyung going on a vacation with Hoseok (for 2 days are considered more worthy of a discussion than a non-celeb wearing Namjoon's worn-out shirt or Yoongi ranting about his ideal man or wearing limited-edition LGBT shoes...

Spoiler

Also I can't help but think that people disminishes hyung line's receipts because it's statistically impossible to have that many LGBT members in the group and for their ship to work, most of the maknae line has to be LGBT so there's no more slot available.

Like each time a hyung-line member has relevant receipts to his case made, another hyung-line member who had relevant receipts gets suddenly dismissed because otherwise that would make 2 hyung-line members possibly being LGBT and 4 out of 7 is too much.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

41 minutes ago, kiyatix said:

No, I just saw the receipts in a different light after years of gradually changing my opinion. Idk if you're speaking generally but you may have my opinion confused for someone else because I don't believe any of what you listed 

 

(That first tweet is fake subs btw, and I just personally never saw that radio show the same way as others see it but I won't get into it cause I don't want to derail into straight talk) 

I was talking about the thread in general. It's just that your sudden remark had quite poor timing and it seems like it often happens when hyung-line is addressed (if one if genuinely questioned, another one has to be/become straight) but maybe it was just a coincidence or trolling to get receipts about Yoongi (because who cares about "which idols do you think are straight" here?)

(these two receipts are not convincing/true so the entire point is dismissed because you chose to ignore the ten others? i mean, i'm not trying to convince you otherwise but i don't get your point, like... you started this convo by saying that you think yoongi's straight so it's derailed already? just say "ive seen the receipts and im personally not convinced" I do the same when I don't think some discussed idols are LGBT, but I dont dismantle people's arguments one by one on the thread, nor I suddenly drop that I think this or this idol is straight, you know?)

discaimer: I'm getting general

I think people should stop trying to dismantle other people's arguments for the sake of their own (more or less partial) point. If you don't get the same vibes from the same instances, respectfully disagree and step away. Because that's the reason this thread keeps derailing into straight talk or what makes a receipt "valid". Interactions between 2 members, LGBT media consumption, song lyrics, stage outfits, sharing clothes, going on vacation... those can be relevant for a certain idol in a particular context and not mean anything for another. Like please look at the big pictures and form your personal opinion. There are pages of argues about one specific detail of a point, it renders the discussion completely messy and sterile...

[OptimusPremier]

33 minutes ago, Hikari005 said:

What was the tweet about? Unfortunately the account has been changed to privat

Here, Namjoon is wearing the same jacket as the guy last week:

Edited December 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

6 hours ago, kiyatix said:

Sorry but I really don't understand what you're getting at/what I did wrong..

I was giving an opinion to a post that wasn't getting responses to see if it's still an unpopular opinion since he's not talked about much. Obviously it is that's fine, but feel like I'm being interrogated a little lmao 

I could've said I don't buy his receipts/evidence but it was easier to just say straight. I didn't want to go into details because I don't do that but it seemed to become an issue. (And someone else just responded they think seokjins straight to the same user simply like I did, that's all I intended it to be.) 

No one was talking about Yoongi though? That's what threw me off. 

About Yoongi's lyrics and japanese interview on Twitter, that's just social media/meme culture. It's all about exaggeration and I bet that (almost) NO ONE actually believes that Yoongi came out in any of these instances. LGBT fans just appropriated these because it resonates with our culture (for reasons that don't rely on just one thing and are not even the same for everyone). 

And it's in no way an interrogation (tones don't come off well through writing). I don't agree with you on that particular instance, but I remember agreeing with you on others in the past. 

And don't worry about cranes/clowns etc, half of them (from lurkers and posters alike) are shippers who fume everytime the thread's points gets in their ship's way or people who think it's gonna make someone look less credible but trust me for I have been around for 5 years, no one needs/uses those reaction thingies to form their opinion on other posters (cranes just mean "dislike" though so it's another thing, it was better when it was just a "dislike" button and there wasn't the judgemental connotation of the crane). If it gets too much, some posters can like your posts to neutralize them, it has been done in the past so just tell us!

 

7 hours ago, joonsoulie said:

I do agree with the spirit of the discussion but I have to point out that both the "how do you ask a girl out" and "how much of an age gap would you date" posts are fake

And there is one picture of Namjoon with that guy posted here that is actually Namjoon and Jungkook, but did I point that out? No, because it doesn't serve anything and this picture doesn't mean much on its own anyway, when there are 5 other pics that are true and make the point stands. I mean, you (general you) can point it out to the OP but often I've seen people here using it to make it look like OP's entire point relies on false information/deluded beliefs when there are much more to it that this specific detail.

My personal opinion is that people can check sources by themselves and not believe anything they see on the internet, we're not here to regulate the reliabilty of the information posted on a fan speculations forum.

Edited December 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

 

8 minutes ago, kiyatix said:

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I was responding to someone who asked what everyone's thoughts were on yoongi wdym?

 

Spoiler

I didn't mean that it was an individual doing, it just so happens that I disagreed with the other point you made and it derailed from here. The point stands that you think Yoongi's straight (and you do you, of course) but you disminished points that other people relate to to justify your take. I agree that it was very on-the-surface compared to what has been done before but I had gone through pages of nonsense before that and the debate was flying over Nj's interesting discussion, so I kind of snapped. That's why I said that I was tired of this thread and that's why I hope you don't take it too personally.

 

[OptimusPremier]

1 hour ago, kaleidostar said:

Not sure if this would add anything to the topic about Joong Ki, but Song Hye Kyo's best friend is Yoo Ah In, he's quite close with Joong Ki too. If there were already rumors about Joong Ki and Bogum back in 2016-2018, I refused to believe that Ah In would be totally clueless about it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Which makes the marriage of Song-Song even more suspicious to me, like was the marriage used to cover up the gay rumors about Joong Ki?

Jin loves Lady Gaga (someone here pointed it out that male idols who enjoys Lady Gaga's music are gay)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given what I've gathered so far, I think Songsong's marriage was a cover-up indeed. Also Yoo Ah In has some of the biggest gay rumors (https://www.allkpop.com/article/2016/02/hong-suk-chun-gives-his-two-cents-on-rumors-yoo-ah-in-is-gay) so that's even more interesting.

[OptimusPremier]

22 minutes ago, Kpop_fan178 said:

This picture is so telling honestly. There is no doubt in my mind that Yoo Ah In gay. He most probably would have sensed that those 2 are sus, i mean god, even us who have never met them are pretty sure. If that was the case there's no way he would let his bff unknowingly marry a closeted gay man.

Also what was the result of this marriage? Did Song JoongKi escaped the gay rumours? Did she advanced in her career? Because from what i know Joongki still has gay rumours, she got a large amount of hate from his fans and even Bogum got dragged in the mess.

It wasn't so bad at first, I even think it did the job relatively well, at least with GP. It all blew up because of a blind item in SK saying that they were divorcing because Hyekyo was cheating on Joongki with Bogum (media's revenge for not being able to out them?). It got so bad in SK that Bogum made a public denial.

I think Joongki didn't renew his contract in january 2020 to create perceived distance with Bogum (he's still close friends with Cha Taehyun who owns Blossom Ent) and Bogum quietly went to military in august 2020 without asking for a delay, even though he was eligible (for those wondering Joongki went to military before they met).

27 minutes ago, joonsoulie said:

Which picture is this?

And yeah I'm just trying to correct misinformation that makes it seem like they would be willing to fuck underage girls. I think that's an important thing to debunk.

I'm not going back to find the post, it's all over Twitter anyway. It's the first picture under spoiler:

Spoiler

 

They're grown men, they don't need anyone to protect their reputation on a fan forum, so no I don't think it's important to debunk it. I mean, you can but it doesn't serve any purpose here (you should go tell OP on twitter if you really think it's that important).

[OptimusPremier]

1 hour ago, kiyatix said:

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I truly don't see how I diminished any points by disagreeing with them just as everyone else does but I guess my words weren't getting through to what I meant. I wouldn't have responded to anyone if I didn't feel my point was being misconstrued because I hate pages of back and forth, but it was clear my point wasn't getting across and I had to correct it. 

 

Spoiler

You did by saying that the foundation of people's belief that he was bi only relied on lyrics and that you don't see what everyone else sees in Yoongi talking about his ideal man: both serve no purpose but disminish what others relate to and it comes across as judgemental.

 

[OptimusPremier]

On 12/12/2021 at 3:41 AM, kiyatix said:

  Hide contents

What lyrics? I never mentioned lyrics..

What I've been trying to say from the beginning is you're misunderstanding. 
how is it judgemental I.. just meant I personally don't view him talking about men like that as attraction. As in others view things a certain way, and I view it this way because we all have different perspectives on things. 
 

i don't like my words being twisted, that's why I keep responding even though I want it to be over but taking my poor wording skills as judgment.. 

 

Spoiler

Japanese interview* (it's the same spirit, that's why I confused them)

I'm not misunderstanding though... 

"The mistranslation issue seemed to be the biggest factor in the bi yoongi belief" People only believes that Yoongi's bi because of a mistranslation, so you're dismissing all the other receipts ever brought or the big picture that some people might have dressed. And then you confirmed by saying it outrightly. "everything else became not notable enough "

It's not a question of wording. You discarded all the other receipts, you had to say this and this are not good receipts, when you could have just said "I'm not convinced by what I've seen so far" and move on. And I'm not saying you're the first or worst person to do it (like, people are doing it right now as we speak, alas it fell on you and you seem genuinely concerned about it, so I feel kind of sorry) but there's a trend of telling people why this or this receipt is not "valid" because "I" have this personal opinion (often coming across as "better judgement" like you inadvertently did). Like, who cares about why you (general you) think this idol's straight? 

(For the judgemental part, I do believe that it wasn't your intention, that's why I said "comes across")

 

So who are we going to choose to decide which receipts are accepted and which aren't? Are we going to conduct an election or what?  Or we can keep on going for pages about how an idol writing/saying "girl" makes him automatically straight, the duration of a vacation for it to be considered romantic, how this thread shares their clothes with everyone and their grandmas, or why an idol's LGBTness is actually more about his face/popularity and less about receipts here. 

If someone is writing a thesis, credit the thread at least.  

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

A heart now (idk if that's the same guy)

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

2 minutes ago, gam3 bo1 said:

i was just coming here to post about this. if this is SOMEHOW a coincidence considering all the discussion lately both here and elsewhere then that's hilarious

I mean, right? like are you trying to say something, nj? and he already posted that exact setting with just himself (a more flattering one) but he now decided to post the one with that guy and on top of the series (idk how to call it, im an ig noob) so now there's a red heart in the middle of his artsy IG (quite attention-grabbing). 

[OptimusPremier]

The members look happy lately and maybe it's because they're not bothered by any kind of pressure anymore. They're all approaching 30 years old, it makes sense that they would want to market a different image, closer to reality (I wonder if they're gonna be more open about the fact they don't live together anymore, for example).

Jin, Nj and Hoseok sold some of their stocks in oct/nov, which means that they either expect the company's value to drop soon, aka lose fans/popularity soon (if it was because of military enlistment, they still had a year, it would've been better to wait after the grammys and the next album) OR it was a threat to their company by pulling a power move (other stock owners will sell their own in fear of the stocks losing value and as eventual buyers will be warier to buy for the same reason, the company's stocks lose value). The fact that Jin said on a live that "Namjoon, Hoseok and I looove our company. All the members do, but us three a little more" felt a little tongued-in-the-cheek and kind of provocative.

Bighit called it a new era and there's definitely something going on.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

I checked and the blind item is still there https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2021/11/blind-item-3_29.html

It was posted on nov 29, the Yein rumor started on nov 30 (that has frankly not much substance to it) and the live was on nov 22, so it's probably unrelated.

[OptimusPremier]

1 hour ago, Dont mind me said:

Yeah I agree on the rumours, they hold no truth and we definitely we don't know how he feels. But it is odd he is so silent on himself for 2.5 years.

@OptimusPremier I know there is a week in between them, but could he not be annoyed knowing this was coming? Maybe I am imagining things? 

Also, the cleanup was om Korean twitter side. They were definitely antis using this rumors to attack him.

yeah it's possible, maybe he knew that he had been seen with that guy and was worrying about it (but I guess it'll just stay speculations at this point)

_________________

also yeah there were blind items about Seungri's prostitution services and another one about Jung Jooyoung being a rapist before the group chat news came out, about 2NE1 and Miss A's disbandments too, for examples. Idk about western blind items though. My guess is that those are reported rumors coming from people who are considered a bit more credible than others, but some of them are still lying/misinterpretating or the news get buried by companies so it never comes to light (like the blind item about Yoo Ah In being gay).

Edit: you've got to admit that a hook-up rumor about a foreign boybander and an LA soccer player doesn't sound like something you would just pull out of your sleeve for the sake of it (or it's quite imaginative) but nothing in the blind item indicates that it's about Jimin or even BTS (it just says "in town for a show" and "several members like men but never heard of one in a relationship with a guy").

Edited December 12, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

Adding my 2 cents about Sunoo:

Spoiler

Personally I don't think he's underrated by the company. There are a lot of factors that can be taken away from the way BTS and TXT were promoted, lessons that have been learned.

Taehyung was the most popular one and he rarely got sent to shows because his personality was "tempting" for variety hosts: there was a high risk of him being mocked/put on the spot (sending the more polished Jin and Jimin was the safest way to go). An idol might also prefer not to go alone, like Yoongi and Jungkook. Also, if the entire group isn't guesting, it means that the show is picky and companies probably have to pull up interesting "resumes" (like Sunghoon's background as a figure skater).

ENHYPEN is promoted as a "manly" group and Sunoo fits that the least (he still pulls it off pretty well). But Song Sungdeuk and Lee Hyun said that all the members fit way better with a fresh concept like Tamed-dashed. My point is that the company's aware and they just wanted to debut them with a different concept from TXT to avoid comparisons. With time, they will find their own vibe and it might not be Sunoo's time to shine now (like 2013/2014 wasn't Jimin's time to shine) but I'm sure it will come!

About the group's relationship, they're at debut: not only they're conscious of cameras, they're also still learning each other's personalities and boundaries. It's not a smooth process and it was just as obvious with BTS and TXT, but look where they are now. I just think it's too early to make relevant guesses at this point, that's why I prefer to refrain and wait a few years, until they've matured and grown more confident to be themselves on camera.

 

Also, I never saw them being spoken about, but do some people have opinions on ONEUS? I personally have a really hard time decyphering them. A vietnamese trainee at RBW said that 4 of them were gay (and that Mamamoo were lesbians, which... doesn't sound that far-fetched nyhtgrfedz). And his contract got terminated because of that (which doesn't mean much as it was really stupid of him, but it gives an idea of the rumors going around at RBW). Source:

Spoiler

 

Youngjo (Ravn) gives me bi vibes. Even though it's hard to say why, for some reason he's the one I feel the most confident with. He just has that artsy vibe to him and he's very in-touch with his feelings, isn't shy to show them either. He's VERY touchy and the members are often wary because they know that he can go very far with fanservice (all in good spirits, they're all visibly genuinely close).

Seoho is a bit awkward with touching as he's very shy and introverted with his feelings. The thing is that other guys (even sometimes outside the group) are very clingy and ambiguous with him and I feel like he's aware of that to some extent. Idk what it is with him but boys can't stop touching him and teasing him all the damn time. Idk what it says about him though (but he's gonna die in a pool of shyness at this rate).

Geonhak (Leedo) has a stereotypically masculine image: he hates aegyo, has a VERY deep voice and he's obsessed with working out (but it can indicate gayness). He majored in Child Education though (so he is not, in fact, stereotypically masculine). He loves play-fighting and he's quite touchy, except with Youngjo (even though they're really close). It kinda looks like he has a pretty bad crush on Seoho but I'm not sure if he's aware himself.

Keonhee is VERY performing (even his scaredy-cat persona seems a bit exagerrated) so it's hard to tell. Even though his mannerism is quite feminine on stage, it is a lot less off-stage and he openly dislikes when fanservice goes too far (screams, whines or hits the member/mostly looks annoyed). Also he has kind of an elegant, dainty image but the members often said that he'd be in trouble if they ever revealed how he really is. I personally feel like he's straight.

Hwanwoong is a open-minded KING (does "girl" dances very seriously, he's so damn underrated as a dancer) but he's REALLY professionnal so it's hard to tell. His obsession with Seoho's ass is kind of interesting though (but then it is the most wonderful ass in male kpop): he stares at it openly when Seoho does something that shows it off, keeps telling Seoho that his charm is his booty and said that he wants to touch it before going on stage for luck. I don't see genuine attraction when he does, but it's quite open appreciation of a guy's physical attribute. Maybe gay/bi but with strict boundaries with the members not to cross.

Xion has quite a stereotypically feminine thing going on too (long hair, his dream was to become a Disney princess etc) but I can't tell if he's just playing it up as a "cute maknae" concept because otherwise he doesn't have feminine gestures at all. He's quite a menace who would rather beat up everyone, but likes to cuddle with Hwanwoong (the other maknae) and looks up to Leedo and Seoho (quite child-like). He's maybe too (romantically) immature to make a sure guess yet.

From an outsider/faraway point of view, I think trainees could have thought that Youngjo, Keonhee, Hwanwoong and Xion are gay because of their personas and touchy habits (while Seoho's introverted and Leedo's manly), but maybe there are actual gossips with more weight than just stereotypes.

 

[OptimusPremier]

Namjoon seems to have a great time with this (is he trolling fans?). But whoever that guy really is to him, he should be careful: some people are contacting the museums and stalking the places that they visited to discover his identity...

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

2 hours ago, oh my dora said:

reminds me of victon chan (already time-stamped)

 

I'm not trying to downplay this moment but was it the only time? Because this is Hwanwoong...

Spoiler

 

(But can we, as a society, blame him in any way? He's on the left:)

He always praises Seoho and Leedo's bodies (proportions, muscled, big booty/big tiddies) but like, he almost sounds objective when he does? He often tries to undress them on camera to show them off to the fans (even though they mostly have korean fans who are not as vocal about bodies than international ones).

I don't feel like it comes from a place of attraction, but of genuine appreciation. It's just that I don't know if a straight guy could really appreciate another guy's body that much. Lots of Kpop idols are honestly suprisingly good at knowing what looks sexy/cute/pretty on other guys and seem genuinely "attacked" when it's done right. I know that, in SK, men often compliment each other but it feels sometimes a bit much to just be a "culture" thing (maybe SK should wonder why some men like to compliment other men that much).

Also this is Hwanwoong:

But then I don't want to stereotype either, because he covers girl dances like he takes it seriously more than to put on a feminine persona (if you follow my train of thoughts):

And as a dance leader, he taught this respect for "feminine" dances to other members as well:

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

At this point Tae is doing the most within the limitations that bts is under (they still don't openly talk about the fact that they don't live together anymore and that they date, for example). It definitely conforts me in the belief that he is LGBT.

Also that's not jungkook in the pic : it's a pic of an unknown man that he took in Malta during BV (there's footage of him taking it, when he went fishing with hobi). He seems to love this picture, maybe because he's proud of it as a photographer and it holds an artistic meaning for him (a man paddling alone in the sea, it can have lots of philosophical meanings).

 

Also, on a OT note, I do agree with some people here that their relationship with the company has been weird for the past 2 years. I don't think that there's open conflict but it does feel like the company is less invested in promoting them the way they used to.

It seems like the company is letting them, either to teach them a lesson or because they truly don't care (I feel like it's the results of the 2020 power struggle : the boys won, given their stock shares, and the company probably went "well OK, do whatever you want and see how you do without us controlling your image and filling up your schedules"). 

That would be why they opened ig accounts altogether but without official notice, as if they manage their image themselves now (even hobis sister posts vids of hobi with his family now). I also think of them asking to be invited in some k-variety shows publicly. But the members still seem scared of the consequences of publicizing their dating life and so they're tiptoeing around it.

Just a theory.

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

1 hour ago, dododododododo said:

No comment on what his taste in art says or what his motivations are lol but I also doubt there’s any deeper meaning in posting + deleting this picture and the surfing picture. I know I’m in the minority and if I’m wrong oh well but I feel like people have been going overboard declaring him as basically out

If he was out, we wouldn't be speculating about it 

I don't think much of the deleting part (it might just be a way to keep his posts out of the media or the company's mouth? As he keeps doing it, it's probably hard to keep track of everything. Or it's an "artistic" choice, who knows).

Personally, I just think that Tae has just too much interest in LGBT content and culture for a straight guy in a homophobic country.

Edited January 21, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

Fandom culture is indeed fascinating. Under spoiler because it's really long, about shipping and speculating in general. So if some people are interest in my personal take on those ^^ :

Spoiler

I discovered fandom culture through reactors on YT and I got interested in lots of fandoms back in 2014-2015 and one direction was one of them for a few months (before stumbling upon BTS Dope, slipping into the kpop hole and never looking back). And from what I've seen, I feel like larries might have had a point during one direction's beginnings. However it turned obsessive, conspirational and they didn't know to move on when it became obvious that whatever Harry and Louis might have been, they weren't anymore. 

I feel like it's the same with Taekook. Even though I don't think that they have ever been anything, they were close friends when they were rookies and with kpop fanservice, I can indulge more naive fans to believe that they were a couple. But now, it's obvious that they're not the closest members and that the ship doesn't make sense anymore. And just like larries, fans spiral into obsessiveness, conspirationism and they don't know to move on.

Personally, I'm on the side that thinks that there are sometimes same-sex couples in idol (or any) groups. There have been multiple cases in 90s/2000s boysbands and girlsbands that have been publicized years later, proving that it does happen.

2nd gen groups' fanservice was very in your face and they kept no-homoing/real-maning to compensate, so on one hand fans knew not to take fanservice too seriously and on the other hand, real "ships" or LGBT idols could sweep under the radar with a few well-placed comments. Mostly the "ships" that were sus were the ones that washed their dirty laundry in public (and Heechul loved to stir this shit up). I was a kdrama fan back in 2007-2011 BTW so that's how I know ^^

3rd gen groups tried to appeal to a global audience, less tolerant with homophobic and heteronormative comments. Companies also learned to bank on shipping and without the no-homo/real-man thing, fans became delusional with fanservice (I'm thinking of Chanyeol/Baekhyun, Kai/DO, Taekook, Yoonmin, Namjin, etc all groups had popular ships that were borderline conspirational). And so I think that real "ships" and LGBT idols learned to be much more discreet and lowkey than their 2nd gen counterparts.

For example, there were interesting interactions (that can be debated of course, but there's material to argue about, whether it's one-sided or not) between Jaejoong and Yunho, Jonghyun and Key, Sehun and Tao, Seungkwan and Vernon, and lately between Mingyu and Jeonghan (I get a vibe from their interactions, I'm curious about what seventeen fans think) and Taehyung and Yoongi. I didn't see enough of all of the groups to make an exhaustive list, but I'm sure that there are more and there will be more as 4th Gen gets older.

But it gets deranging when fans invest all of their energy to prove their ship right and make up villains who are the reason for their ship not making any sense, like other members and companies. It also makes actual speculating counter productive because boring ships and absurd takes keep meddling into the discussion...

And it's not a point of proving my "ships" right, like I don't care, it's just speculation, not a firm belief (I rely on vibes or idk, big pictures, which are not reliable material). Those are just opinions: they can change or be wrong and it will only be fair-play, that's just the game of speculating (like, I used to think that Heechul had a crush on Hangeng, but given late happenings... yeah). I don't mind talking about Namjoon and Jimin, or Taehyung and Jimin, for examples (Taekook just makes no sense though).

And it's not a question of fantasizing 2 guys together (I mean, it's nice to think about, but not THE reason I speculate). Firstly I generally like theorizing about the things that they hide (like business stuff and fights too) like I would debate politics or news irl. I just love debating.

And secondly there's also a longing for representation. Whether through PR stunts or actual relationships, the straights have loads of couples to look up to ("I wish I could love someone like that" or "true love exists" kind of thing) but we don't have much of those and it's only natural to wish to see it among people we already look up to.

Lately I also have this thing where I truly deplore SK's stance on LGBT. I feel like as a society, they need celebrities (and politics) to be the pioneers for things to progress and I do hope that maybe one of my faves will make history like that one day. I do absolutely not hold any of them accountable to do it or truly wish that they will (because history shows how hard this role is to carry) but it's just a nice thought to have. So sometimes I also speculate with that hopeful little thought at the back of my mind.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

Idk how reliable it is (its a regular fashion outlet though, not the kind to gossip usually, so they might have encountered a trust-worthy insider, like a make-up artist or a hairstylist, who knows). It's always interesting to see regular korean outlets reporting same-sex couples stories though, true or not. It makes me think that it's not too incredible to believe for the outlet and so, that it does happen to the point where it's not that surprising (rumors and such).

Now let's hear which ones of your ships fit the mold ^^ 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

37 minutes ago, boredoutofmymind said:

I'm not that familiar with Women Sense but they don't strike me as something that would publish a piece like this, I know this was posted on Pann but did they ever link to the actual article? 

I was with them until they talked about how the performance had to be canceled. I really don't think management would cancel a performance because of a "lover's spat", the many times idols have recounted stories of getting into heated arguments and then having to perform right after that proves other wise. 

I find it amusing that the manager "sensed" something was up because member B showed immense concern for member A because they collapsed though

Personally I feel like, if I was to put myself in their shoes, these types of situation would make it hard for a partner to just step back and let a manager handle it like a member would. My point is that, out of all items and accounts I've read so far, that's the only believable kind of situation where a couple could betray themselves. 

That said, I agree with you that it's unlikely that a company would cancel the performance for a "love quarrel". My guess would be that the quarrel extended to the group and/or the managers because they were exposed to the music shows staff? Or the insider exagerrated their story.

35 minutes ago, bb8__ said:

This was discussed a few pages back...sounds like a blind item but not much to go on. 

 

I followed the thread this week and I didn't see it? Was it the same op?

And yeah, not much to go on, but I hoped that it would fuel new discussions. ^^

Edited January 23, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

2 hours ago, boredoutofmymind said:

That's fair, although I'll be honest I would hope that if said member collapsed, everyone around them would be showing concern but idk I read it and to me it just felt like something to fuel more shipper, and specifically shipper,  discussions and nothing more than that. 

Well, it's not reliable material, but that's also the case of lyrics, movie or song references, dance covers, clothes, media-trained interactions or speeches from public figures... That's why we speculate, and not investigate. I mean, if we don't discuss rumors because they're rumors, what are we doing on a gossip forum? 

Edited January 24, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

54 minutes ago, boredoutofmymind said:

lol my point was more how some things just seem like fodder for shippers more than anything else. I'm all for discussing who is gay in kpop hence my reason for being here and maybe I'm not articulating myself properly but something of that post isn't doing much for me other than lol nice fanfic. I think there is a difference between speculating based on some of the things you mentioned and a blind item that reads like a wattapad story honestly but that's just me

Idk (and it's not personal against you) but I really feel like some years ago, the "fun police" has completely denatured this thread and now there are things worthy of our time and some that aren't because they're not "serious" enough.

It's not like any of us are going to actually believe two particular idols are dating because of this article, but maybe it could be part of a big picure and makes sense, now or one day, who knows? Like, why would a fashion outlet suddenly decide to write gay fanfiction in a homophobic country? Is gay fanfiction always irrealistic anyway? Also modern journalism makes boring reality sensational.

I read a blind item about a male singer involved in the prostitution scene, another about a male singer who drugged women to have sex with them and then shared videos with his friends. Everyone laughed back then, saying that some attention seekers didn't know what to invent anymore. Turns out that it was Seungri and Joonyung.

My point is, we don't know what is an actual receipt or not, and we can't assure one way or another. So there's no harm in discussing it.

For me, this "shipper" police thing basically sucked the soul out of this thread, that is often dead and not even fun, without even having chased the most delusional fans away. Talk about being counter productive, they're even the more proficient ones these days, because everyone else is wary of posting or discussing something that will be tagged "shippy" or "delusional"...

Edited January 24, 2022 by OptimusPremier