Which male idols do you think are gay?

[taeyong's panicked scream]

20 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

I feel bad perpetuating this little moment

don't feel sorry, it's just some people acting crazy

and i'm so sure they the editor saw that and thought "oh whatever lol" just didn't think anything out of it and just posted, it probably went through revision too. chenji videos got lots of little moments like that, and there's a lot of other moments like that in other nct videos like jaemin going over the top with kissing and skinship but it never goes viral like this. 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

2 hours ago, lighterxx said:

Why do they always assume femininity=gay

i'm quoting this from an article that says "The South Korean legal system is founded on a binary model of gender based on heterosexuality", therefore we must assume that heteronormativity overpowers the culture and the general mentality that defines how femininity is perceived: no strength, no self-reliance, no leadership, no space to provide. we can also take that from the fact that SK was under military power and with remainings of the old regime in their society to this day. they're not only sexist when prescribing how women should behave, but also when degrading femininity to a place of weakness.

being feminine = womanly behavior

so a man being feminine is like he's "quitting" being a man. 

when they associate femininity to the LGBTQ, we then comprehend that being feminine, persuing some feminine trait brings dishonor upon the patriarchal standard and to a man's responsability. being a man in SK you must appear reliable, strong. if you're not in the norm, you're queer. and for them, traditionally:

liking men = feminine trait exclusive for woman

if you're in any way portraying femininity, which for them it's exclusively a woman thing, then you must be gay.

so, challenging what it means to be a man in a patriarchal society like SK's can be very frowned upon, and every stigmatized individual are all put together in the same group by the conservative people.

amongst the gay community, even if it's said as a joke, we can feel the presence of stereotypes or stigma against being a bottom, that by the traditional perception is a woman's position. you can't be feminine, it's wrong, "it's not natural for a man", for some gays even if you're gay, carrying feminine traits is not attractive. this is internalized in their social perceptions.

it's late at night here, i'm sleep and idk if i made my words clear enough but i'm triggered tday felt like writing whatever

 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

13 hours ago, ga_shina said:

I had long hair and wore colored lenses at my debut

in my perception i think he's trying to address that SK's gender norms are strict and people would judge and overreact when they see a feminine looking man. it's just my theory, but i think it has to do with some historic insight related to the joseon era. basically there used to be a type of "male kisaeng" called "namsadang", male prostitutes that served nobleman.

Quote

Namsadang were troupes of male entertainers who roamed the countryside and performed for the lower classes. They often poked fun at the Joseon nobility through their music, dance and puppet shows. One popular skit was of a provincial nobleman who spent large sums of money on a pretty boy.

According to Rutt, many of the performers were young boys who dressed up in women's attire and earned money for their managers primarily through prostitution - music and dancing was only a secondary income.

as you saw, they were pretty boys who dressed up as females. what is says to me is that MAYBE this judgement and prejudice against feminine men that are adept of long hair, painted nails and genderless fashion nowadays might be attributed to the fact that these male prostitutes who carried the culture of being pretty boys and were later harshly condemned due to the changes in politics. (not that they were accepted before, since confucianist noblemen saw this kind of thing as a degenerate act, yet they wouldn't do anything to stop it since it was a common practice). so, the existence of these homosexual sex workers could justify the fact that society started to see boys who beared exotic appearance for that period in time to the break of a tradition and philosophy that was taking place in that era and the idea became powerful enough to last in SK's society to this day, just like the "tan skin = poor enslaved servant, pale skin = royalty" thing that people use to justify colorism.

this is me on acid but bear with it because i think it makes sense

[taeyong's panicked scream]

4 hours ago, flowflow said:

how can he call himself a kpop idol?

well, people have to label themselves to have a marketing point, that's why he says he's a kpop idol. i'm not jugding him for that though, he's an independent pop artist with a purpose and a message to get across: LGBTQ people exist in every place, even amongst idols and in the entertainment companies world, so considering himself a kpop idol is part of it.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

33 minutes ago, lighterxx said:

Or emperor could have famous male partners who are no way weak, hell majorly Generals

omg tea, this is so interesting

 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

this is not out of context this is exactly what it is 

that's it

i'm having "teacher, like this? - ten, 2020" tattooed on my forehead

 

 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

4 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

Richard Rutt

now that you say it i'm kinda embarrassed that i didn't do a little research on him lol. i googled him real quick and it turns out that "Rutt spent almost 20 years of his life serving as an Anglican missionary in South Korea" then later became a roman catholic priest. by this information i'd judge there's probably some bias, but i've found another source that seems to validate his work. even so, i really wish there were some other authors asian or not who touch this subject that we could easily visit, i hope i find them. 

4 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

I'll keep my skepticism

i don't wanna trust him too much, but something i thought would be funny to point out is that rutt talks about the hwarang (the original flower boys group that inspired the drama featuring taehyung, minho, etc lol) and the article named Homosexuality in ancient and modern Korea describes that the hwarang "offers the clearest example of ancient homosexuality in Korea". the writers of this article are koreans and one of them comes from a theological uni, but it didn't seem like there was any sign of religious speech (it wouldn't be published if there was i guess).

edit: found this pretty expensive but pretty interesting book called queer korea and i saw something about ancient queerness

Edited April 17, 2020 by taeyong's panicked scream

[taeyong's panicked scream]

2 hours ago, bb8__ said:

After WinWin left Yuta started having hearty eyes for Mark

yuta loved mark even before that though, he's just very attentive to his donsaengs and VERY weak to cuteness 

but it's funny how everyone, even jaehyun, is playing along with it very well these days, even though i was hoping that yuta would look at jaehyun at least once because he is the one who got hearty eyes for him but is always low key about it. his is reactions to yuta are so clear or is it just me?? 

Spoiler

 

yeah it's their hands

jaehyun took this picture i- it looks like he's being loved a lot am i the only one seeing it for a while now?

but back to yuta loving mark. he was in charge of giving mark flowers on his own on his graduation day and he looks like a freaking boyfriend damn (the picture is too big so it's under the spoiler)

Spoiler

 

 

yuta even protected mark when he didn't need protection lol what a great bodyguard

Spoiler

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by taeyong's panicked scream

[taeyong's panicked scream]

58 minutes ago, 3/4illustrator said:

I never made it to EXO Tourgram or concert videos despite being at the front in NYC!

damn i don't like to be on camera but it sounds frustrating anyway smh

[taeyong's panicked scream]

21 hours ago, ga_shina said:

The fine line between wanting to "protect" your artists and being straight up homophobic... 

just straight up homophobic. why didn't they protect baekhyun and taeyeon's privacy nor krystal and kai's then smh. it doesn't make sense that they want to protect some idols and expose others. they are just afraid of public rejection and how it would affect their stocks, that's all.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

so kwon denied being gay? he didn't really say he's straight and didn't really say he's gay, right? without knowing what he said i'm gonna formulate my opinion based on older interviews. it seems to me that kwon just doesn't want his sexuality to overshadow his entire career, so he's giving out ambiguous answers to preserve his integrity as an artist from the tabloids and people who write disgusting things for the reason of him possibly being a sexual minority. they're just dirt cheap and act like this for clicks. 

Quote

"I'm aware of those rumors, but I don't care at all. That's who I am, and I will keep expressing myself and my talents." "Honestly, I wonder why I have to purposely hide my talent. They are the talents and skills I was born with. I have various talents and skills so I didn't want to promote with solely ballads."

 i think he was trying to address the fact that people tried to put him down by treating him with prejudice. some people wrote articles about him being a gay with a title implying that he was doing drag and trying to seduce straight men, i mean-

Quote

"It doesn't matter if you're a man, a woman, or whatever. I was born this way and I'm doing my best with what I'm given. I'm not too bothered by criticism and rumors. I want to become an artist who can use those factors as a great influence rather than being stressed over it. I hope there are people who gain confidence and courage by seeing me," he said.

so, i hope i won't get hate for saying this but he could be bi or straight, who knows? i know men who are the perfect gay stereotype but have only been with woman. as my personal opinion i would never assume kwon is straight, but if he is what bothers me is this question: does this situation make him not entitled to be a queer artist/representative?

Edited April 17, 2020 by taeyong's panicked scream
typo

[taeyong's panicked scream]

5 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

Glad to have someone here who enjoys deep convos

oh i'm glad my random topic sparked your interest, i don't usually talk to people about things like that anymore because my friends are busy and i study languages in uni so there's not much space to do it. 

5 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

evidence of him checking out women

there's a video of jaehyun checking a fan's butt back out back in 2016-ish? saw it on twitter ages ago and now i can't find it anywhere, but i'm sure it exists. maybe fans just chose to burry it for some reason.

5 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

I'll keep my speculations and opinions here

i wish some stan twitter would do the same.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

5 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

so Yuta does the job

not fond of sm pushy ships, but yuta seems to be enjoying his job a lot during this era lol

Edited April 17, 2020 by taeyong's panicked scream
typo

[taeyong's panicked scream]

58 minutes ago, Taecoholic said:

I just love we can talk about openly NCT ships

this is the first time i've ever seen anyone talking about nct ships in this thread though? i think people are paying more attention to the fact that we're talking about yuta and not about a ship. he's someone who has a story of being an open advocate against gender roles and stereotypes and for transgender matters, so we think he's queer. i personally don't really like the ship and i think it's a general consensus that it is in fact fanservice lol even though he seems to truly cherish his relationship with mark. a while ago, i pointed out that yuta's behavior just shows how much of an open, free-spirited and loving person he is and his love for mark is not very new, so it surpasses the fact that their company is pushing the ship a little too much. yet, i keep my feet on the ground and i'm aware that it doesn't necessarily means yuta wants to be mark's or anyone's boyfriend. 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

1 hour ago, runmvs said:

the account still gets taken down soon

oh wow i hope it gets taken down too sasaengs really make my blood boil when they expose unnecessary stuff like this. why don't they just stay quiet? do they have to be this messy, cruel and criminal? other ones who have been keeping everything concealed will probably pull this sasaeng's hair out.

 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

2 hours ago, runmvs said:

let me know if posting this was a bad idea

i don't think you need to worry about it being a bad idea, rumors will always exist. i just don't like the idea of them being outed before they're ready or when they have no intention of coming out.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

17 hours ago, Taecoholic said:

^ Are you sure? :))))

i do think i didn't make myself clear enough, but you should read the posts that came before mine though. i'm literally trying to say that there's nothing uncommon about yuta liking mark and that it is actually an old thing among them. his care towards mark is natural and people shouldn't hype this ship as much as they're doing because there's nothing on this that points out to his sexuality.

but if you want to criticize me for saying jaehyun looks at yuta with hearty eyes as if i'm implying he got a crush on him then go ahead and do it, i'll be reflecting and doing some self-flagellation at home. i kind regret posting it based solely on yuta, since jaehyun got this loving look towards anyone he loves and appreciates and again there's nothing on this that points out to his sexuality. jungkook and jaehyun are friends, let's not promote fanwars just because we're delusional about shipping.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

this thread is kinda negative these days so let's watch yuta smiling at an employee

not tea, he's just so sweet 

 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

On 4/20/2020 at 5:47 PM, Melany said:

don't attack me , but do you think taeyong is lee soman's sugarbaby?

 i'm not attacking you lol.

LSM favors some artists over others and this is a fact that has been known for ages now. let me tell you, like every entertainment company CEO he knows what he wants when he sees a promissing artist that will be able to reproduce what his mind projects on them. that's just how it is with taeyong, and how it was with taeyeon, kangta, etc. he might be the greatest mercenary of all, but to be able to touch his artists? i don't think he is that kind of predator himself. even though i don't believe they'd actually be doing it, the possibility of SM selling their idols to sponsors makes me sick, so let's just drop it. just look at how packed their schedules are and you'll know they got no time to be messing up with minor sponsors just to get some crumbs. 

i'm not trying to deify LSM ew, but there's a reason why LSM was able to build an empire and stay in the market as the main entertainment company without (many) fails during all these years. SM got a lot of power that envolved years of the idols blood, sweat and tears, image change, hard training, hard work, concerts, goodies, commercials, performances, mental stress, OVERWORK. it's so dangerous if you just choose to talk about sexual favors, if you just assume they do it to get to a higher place. of course just the fact that we'll never know the things they hide unless they want us to know is sus, they're secretive, i get it, but i really want to believe their ethics when it comes to forced sex and prostitution. it's a crime, it's too heavy. don't attach their success and LSM's biases to sexual favors.

YG got his shit exposed while trying to cover up for others which shows to me two possibilities: he either doesn't have enough money to buy his way off or he was just so messed up it was impossible to hide it any longer no matter how much power he held. if there's something sketchy about LSM and SM other than their xenophobic, opressive behavior and crazy contracts, things that have already been brought to light quite a lot of times, then they're the worse entertainment company ever.

Edited April 23, 2020 by taeyong's panicked scream

[taeyong's panicked scream]

20 minutes ago, cristallodineve said:

Johnny and Yuta are part of the 95 line and I think they naturally and genuinely got closer since trainee days. Yuta is like his long lost twin, except that, at least in my opinion, he's a few steps ahead in his own journey of self understanding and embracing his true self. Many times it was clear to me that Taeyong respects and truly loves Yuta as a person and a close friend (another gut feeling here - if I were Taeyong, Yuta would be the person I'd choose to pour my heart when I feel stressed or to ask advice. Just sayin'). I think Yuta is very similar to Taeyong in a way. They have been friends since trainee days and their strong bond is still evident in these days. I also think, though, that Yuta is dramatically different from him. Let me detail my opinion. I remember reading a post in this thread a while ago, which defined Yuta "a sexually liberated young man" (or something along these lines). Well, maybe not entirely sexually liberated, but still many steps ahead than Taeyong in understanding and valuing himself enough not to be afraid to be frank, speak his mind, even act "controversial" (commas are compulsory here; think of the bellybutton piercing, of the way he dared telling a sasaeng to fuck off, of the way he doesn't even try to hide when he's annoyed or tired or in disagreement with something) if he feels that it's the right thing to do. At the same time, he always felt like a sweet and understanding person to me. And empath, probably, and a very good listener. I think, personally, that the fact that he's not Korean might play a role in this dynamic, but I have no deep knowledge of Japanese culture so I won't dwell on this topic further. I don't know why, but I've always thought hat 

there are so many things i'd love to point out and say YES I STRONGLY AGREE, but i think there's not much to be said because i vibe with you in a big way. what i know about japan is that it is by default a very conservative country just like other asian countries, but there are aspects points out to japan's younger generation being a little bit more liberated than young people in korea. i personally think the 80s/90s played a big whole on how japan's youth culture works nowadays. for example in the 90s japan's sex education was the most advanced in asia; the boom of fashion and lifestyle subcultures that represented the sentiment of embracing a new era leaving tradition and image standardization behind. because we're talking about yuta it's very relevant to say that visual kei was and still is on of the biggest ways of self expression and reflects a lot on a free spirited lifestyle. yuta is a big fan of l'arc~en~ciel, a famous rock band that rules japan's music to this day. their music is still seen as a form of self-expression for the young generation even though they have been active for 30 years. yuta is from osaka, so what i think is that japanese kids who come from big capitals might have less of a hard time dealing with themselves because they get in touch with this kind of culture that devides japan. 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

26 minutes ago, azuyaraven said:

are famously known to come from rich to ultra rich families

i was going to talk about the possibility of idols paying to get into companies (which is a reality), but it's undeniable the fact that they worked really hard and are indeed talented and deserving of what they have so.

[taeyong's panicked scream]

On 4/23/2020 at 1:51 PM, Melany said:

go king get that BBC

OMG I'M DEAD LMAO

[taeyong's panicked scream]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:17 AM, cristallodineve said:

Thanks for sharing your point of view, actually reading your posts and your in-depth analyses is what made me gather the courage to share my own opinion, I really want to thank you for this ❤

that

[taeyong's panicked scream]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:17 AM, cristallodineve said:

Thanks for sharing your point of view, actually reading your posts and your in-depth analyses is what made me gather the courage to share my own opinion, I really want to thank you for this ❤

i didn't do anything though what that's so sweet of you thank you. you're really cohesive in everything you point out it really got me engrossed. i'm glad i triggered you into sharing your opinion because it was so heartwarming to read. 

[taeyong's panicked scream]

this is a promotion for the upcoming repackage, but it holds so much intimacy i almost felt like an intruder. they just chose to expose that to the public which seems incredible to me.

and this

1 hour ago, 3/4illustrator said:

after we become elders, let's go to nursing home together as well

really hit me hard.

this is not something you say randomly as a joke as korean people tend to say it to their loved one, it's quite a cheesy line like a line in a k-drama, hence why taeyong let a tiny laugh out, yet he knew what he wanted to express and tried to do so in a more lighthearted way. doyoung tried very hard to stay composed, but the tears in his eyes bear sincerity. he cries when talking about family members, when he talks to his brother. taeyong has a lot of pictures of him and doyoung on in bedroom's wall, so even before with the smallest details you could see how special they are to each other. the meaning supporting the embraces and feelings shared among them, as well as the vunerability they conveyed will always remain as something we won't be able to fully grasp and describe because it's not ours, but it shows their effort to bond as a group, as friends, as each others supporters and as soulmates. when doyoung mentioned their NCT journey being fated, it really felt like it goes way beyond our analyzes. doyoung and taeyong really did set the atmosphere to be sentimental and intense and they really believe in the eternity of their relationship. they were there to work, but it was really enough to bring out their genuine emotions and it really moved me.