Which male idols do you think are gay?

[OptimusPremier]

19 minutes ago, lighterxx said:

I would say bolded ones are in no way proof of anything honestly if you ask me o.o i would like to hear him talk about his male ideal type if possible however *^*

 

 

17 minutes ago, ga_shina said:

Do you have the source for the quote of it’s not limited to gender? I have never come across it and I like to think I am a BTS fan It’s interesting because he never gave me any vibes. But who knows really. 
 
As an lgb person I’m just happy that idols I like are supportive and not just silently supportive

He met him btw the male ideal type he described Cha Seungwon and as you can see he didn't hesitate one second:

According to Korean/japanese people this is the most accurate translation of what he said (as you can guess a lot of het fans argued he didn't mean so translators had to come through together to actually support his statement):

The Vans:

Everyone's equal :

 

I'm also glad that you don't think Yoongi and thay guy's lyrics are on par! I feel like Yoongi's hip-hop bragging, as you put it, is really just that but coming from a LGBT person.

Edited January 8, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

Let me add this:

He thinks men from Gyeongsang-do are handsome:

 

He used to make up stories about male celebrities:

 

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/8/2021 at 10:49 PM, dumdidumdi said:

The first one I think he's just saying he's handsome, because he's from Gyeongsang.

There is also this moment, where he says Hobi's sister is pretty because she looks like Hobi with long hair.

 

bgkrfjled yeah I know, could be. But I like to think Yoongi could be sneaky like that ^^ 

I'd like to bid higher with Yoongi's love for muscles:

When Tae came to flex his muscles, I had never heard that kind of giggle from Yoongi:

He only looks at chests:

Also he doesn't take a handshake as an acceptable greeting from a tall handsome man:

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/8/2021 at 11:51 PM, dumdidumdi said:

There's a lot of stuff here, but I'll try to respond briefly. Firstly, I didn't think they were dating before I read this, and I don't think that now either. I'm not trying to be mean, I just want it to be clear where I'm coming from. And speaking of my own biases, I already think both Yoongi and Tae are LGBT+, so that definitely influences how I perceive these moments between them. 

I don't really find this suspicious. Them bringing it up later isn't that weird, they still reference things that happened years ago, like the infamous dumpling incident, and obviously everyone remembers things differently, so the the different explanations aren't that odd. I think he just didn't want to be filmed.

A similar issue is the Daydream MV shoot you mention. I feel like the whole "BH lied" conspiracy is a bit too much, and a much simpler explanation is that the editors don't know exactly what happened because they weren't on set. At that point, didn't BTS still live together? It wouldn't raise any eyebrows if they showed Tae and Yoongi coming together, so I don't see the point in hiding it. I feel like this sort of thing has happened before and is still going to happen because either the editors just don't know what happened or because they feel like the context isn't necessary to enjoy the video, so they shortcut a lot of things.

And you point out a lot of moments like these, but there's so many moments like these between any of the members. It's why BTS have such dedicated shippers (especially Jikook and Taekook) shippers. It's a difficult situation, because if they were dating, even if they were super careful, obviously there'd be some moments like these where they slip up a bit on camera. And if you already thought they were a little sus, you have confirmation bias so you're more likely to see an otherwise normal moment and interpret it as romantic. The reason why I point this out is that I think it's useful to ask yourself "If this exact situation happened between any other two members would I still find it suspicious?". I think most of the time the answer will be no. (I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you're free to believe they're dating if you want)

Sometimes these moments get taken way too far by fans. Like the whole "Jikook ear nibbling incident" on stage. The first video came out and people were convinced it happened and Jikookers rejoiced, and then other fans (mostly Jimin antis, let's be real) disproved the video by showing another angle where it doesn't look like he's biting his ear, and then Jikookers tried disproving that, and Taekookers tried disproving that and it went on and on. My point is that even though this was an ongoing battle people now will still believe whichever side they want to believe, even though both camps have equal proof. It's a silly example, but someone mentioned it here earlier so it was the first thing that came to mind. 

Okay, now onto my theory on Taegi, heavily influenced by the fact I think they're both part of the LGBT+ community and me reading your long list of receipts and trying to rationalize it: I feel like they have a sort of mentor/mentee relationship. Stigma, the most gay coded song to exist, that indicates a struggle in self-acceptance on Tae's part (and obviously the lack of acceptance from his family and/or society) came out late 2016. A couple of months later, BTS film Bon Voyage Season 2. Yoongi and Taehyung get paired off and become much closer than they were before. To me, it comes across as a baby gay (Tae) finding comfort in relating to a more experienced person who has already accepted themselves (Yoongi). Another reason why I think this is the case is the message he sent him later on that made him cry. You mention this, and honestly I've never seen anyone point out discrepancies and poke holes in the story, if you could provide video of where they contradict themselves I would love to see it. He says he sent the same message (or a very similar one) to JK. You say Tae has the passcode to Yoongi's studio, but it's been mentioned that JK knows it too, or at least he used to. I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like Yoongi has a different kind of relationship to Tae and JK than he has with the other maknae-line member, Jimin. It seems like he takes care of them more, coddles them more and is much closer to them. I've just always found it odd that Yoongi treats Jimin more like an equal (in age) and Tae and JK like they're his baby brothers and often goes along with their antics (like his tsundere hand-holding you've linked) . Maybe it's because he thinks Jimin is more mature than them, or their personalities just clash differently, I don't know. This is just a very delulu theory. Now, Yoongi, Tae and JK are the only members where I'm 99% sure they're not straight, so I feel like this is definitely influencing the way I see this, but I think it is possible he treats them differently because they came to him for support because he could relate to them. Now even if you don't believe my whole theory (I don't blame you at all, I'm not sure even I believe myself), the fact that a lot of the receipts you have for Taegi could work for Yoonkook if you just find similar moments where JK is involved says something about it all.

TL;DR: I do think Taegi are closer than they appear, and it is likely because they're both LGBT, but not because they're dating.

I don't mind you not agreeing, no worries! ^^

But just so you know the stuff I posted are not the actual foundations for what I think. I tried to demonstrate the way it progressed throughout the years to, like, give off the feeling I got while seeing the group evolve throughout the years but I had a hunch it just wasn't something demonstrable with pics and videos (you see it or you don't, most likely only if you saw it happening). And it seemed like I was right about that.

For example, the things that don't add up about the Daydream MV or the text might be explainable otherwise and honestly, I wouldn't mind. I don't pretend I know everything about what went on and I'm probably wrong about lot of things. Those moments are not reasons of my belief and the fact that they went together at the same time with Yeontan or that Yoongi sent him a long sad text with "I love you" are enough to make sense of how and when it happened. 

There are thousands and thousands of successive moments, interactions and words that keep making sense/reinforcing my suspicions with time but it would be impossible to understand without living them I guess. Also I'm not hung up on it either, that's why I said I was 90% sure and I would accept it with fair-play if bluntly proven wrong. As of now that just makes sense for me.

I won't try to make a point for it though, I'm just trying to show you where I'm coming from.

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:41 AM, dumdidumdi said:

Oh, I see. I guess I didn't realize this was more of a non-chronological timeline than anything else. You're being respectful so I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing these things here. Even if you don't think they're dating you can still find some of these moments sus in a way that fits the theme of this thread. But, to be honest, I don't know how many people you'll find on here willing to discuss it with you because they don't want to get negged, and most shippers ship in a "I think they'd be cute together" rather than a "I think they're actually dating" kind of way. I responded to you because I'm always willing and open to getting my mind changed about things (and I don't care about the internet points), so even though I don't agree with you now I wanted to point out the things that make me hesitant in believing you, so that if there's more to it than I realize someone could point it out to me. I'm really curious about the text now, I'll have to look it up.

It's fine, I don't think I'll keep discussing it here (even though I personally stopped caring about negs a long time ago). I'll just keep watching from afar, maybe one day I'll get an answer about that and whatever it turns out to be won't endangered my support for them anyway. Also I get that my point of view can be a bit frustrating to witness because "why did they see that I didn't that made them believe this?" 

Maybe because I knew the Bangtan from 2015-2017? A very very different Bangtan? I didn't wake up one day thinking they were dating or double-biased them and wished for them to be together (bias wrecker is actually Hobi and I never ever shipped him with Yoongi even though Sope was popular, I never shipped Yoongi with anyone).

During the 2nd half of 2018, I only thought Yoongi had an unrequited crush on Tae. And then in 2019 it turned out that they were extremely close, in ways I hadn't noticed before and I thought "maybe it wasn't unrequited? were they always that close, when did it happen? why are they so close?" I literally can only explain it like that and that will be my last post about it.

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

5 hours ago, SingularEpiphany said:

 

 Actually I'm mistaken.. he didn't mention having a girlfriend at all, that was J-hope, and Jimin and V mentioned crushes (Rookie King ep 6). I thought he said he met someone in school, that's why I mentioned all boys' school... 

The only thing I find suspicious about all the Rookie king BS they used to spew was this (Yoongi suddenly felt the need to mention Jin -and himself- went to all-boys schools when they were asked about Valentine's Day and the two of them exchanged a silent exchange that was interesting even though I'm not sure what it means but it's obvious Jin was like "I know what you're up to, please don't do it" as if he was expecting him to say something much more "incriminating"). It's of course followed by overall panic from the group about the gay implications.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:39 PM, SingularEpiphany said:

I do think Tae and Yoongi are interesting. Suga looked out for Tae as a fellow Daegu boy but then they seem to have grown apart in 2015-16 only to resolve their issues through 2017. I think Suga is possibly bi (also Suga has a Jack I Swear sweatshirt which is definitely a lot gayer than some other style receipts) and Tae gay too. Tae definitely teases Suga and I've always felt a lot of affection between them, I just don't think Suga is physically expressive enough to pinpoint if it crosses the boundary into romantic versus a really close friendship.  

My LGBTQ+ line in BTS is Suga, Jin, Tae, so I'm inclined to wonder at all combinations of the three. Suga and Jin are plenty close as friends too and my personal 'hold up I'm not crazy!' pair is Tae and Jin, although I don't think they're dating, more like there's enough mutual attraction there to generate actual on-stage chemistry. 

Here's Jin winking at Tae for no good reason:

https://nb-no.facebook.com/kimyeontan/videos/taejin-what-goes-on-seokjin-just-wink-at-taehyung-and-tae-just-smirk-after-that-/303658484047169/

For my own personal bugbear, I really want to know what people's reason is to not wonder about Jin. If Jimin can in 2015 say heteronormative things like men don't kiss and comment that his fans didn't think see them as men because they asked BTS if they liked women in bikinis (aka real men like women in bikinis), and still be seen as potentially gay, Idk why Jin's transformation is disregarded and he's still seen as too 'traditional and conservative'. I feel like people want a more exciting LGBTQ+ representation in BTS and Jin skews the quota or something..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Jin fans have been trying very hard to erase his mom of the group stereotype, and tend to correct his image to hypermasculine and so are allergic to any mention of him being gay since they think it's an insult...But if Tae fits into a flamboyant gay kid stereotype, Jin fits into a shy gay boy one in early BTS years. He even called women 'his protectors' in one interview. He's seen as too polite to flirt, but he let Solbin drop honorifics which people took to mean they had a relationship but if not it seems like he just - gets along with women and yet has no chemistry with them ? 

Notably Jin is the one who shut down fangirl marriage questions first in BTS and rarely flirts at fansigns. Jin also said that he couldn't express himself till 2016, so he clearly found playing the straight heartthrob more oppressive than playing a flamboyant man who blows hand kisses.

Leaning more into gay stereotypes, his preferred dance move is the slut drop (bonus: to Britney Spears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvFSYNrpYSs) and this is a step more gay than straight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5hDNw5G1Ys. His reaction to Hwasa is far more Yass Queen ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHJleQqw_Nw than a lot of other BTS members who get that characterisation (compare with RM next to him). Pink can be manly, but Jin's affection for the colour feels like rebellion? What with his sparkly pink mic and earpiece, and his self-concept for BE being a vaguely iridescent room full of jewels and a genderless Maison Margiela wrap that he styled on his own https://twitter.com/artansonyeondan/status/1326190971655245829. Also that The Qoo article is rife with stereotypes but if Maple Story is somehow gay-coded, he's an extremely devoted fan of it.

That one log of him speaking about cooking for his wife sounds like it's read off a teleprompter and to me ranks with 'ideal type' questions as fanservice. Also saying you like someone who cooks and cleans also neatly sidesteps having to give a physical description, though the only ones in BTS who have ever mentioned a clear physical type are RM and Jungkook. Here's that log. Jin does not look at all comfortable in it:

Besides mentioning Brad Pitt as his crush, Jin just actively flirts with men, more so than anyone else in BTS ? Winking at Heechul, giving a rose to the host of Britain's Got Talent, and enthusiastically complimenting Wonho's shirtless performance:

He's also so happy to be complimented by men. https://www.facebook.com/NAMJINPhilippines/videos/the-way-jin-got-flustered-when-namjoon-compliments-himcreditstaebokkiiinamjin-/661806211347769/ 

I've seen people say he's too emotionally immature and that's why he doesn't show interest in women  and that is just... weird and homophobic ?? You don't need to have any maturity to be into sex or have an orientation. 

As for LGBTQ+ support, he isn't clear - no one but Suga and RM are, and he's close to both of them; RM even said he'd never met like anyone like Jin before and that he changed his perspective on things, which since Jin was the first non-toxic-masculine man in BTS ought to count for something. But he does ask 'are you a couple?' 'are you on a date' in BTS skinship situations which seem like he's onboard with the idea of men dating men. This is his reaction to fanboys https://yoongichii.tumblr.com/post/156356744218/jin-and-the-fanboys  He did once say he wasn't gay but tbf that was just at debut, at a time he had a lot of gay rumours.  

 

Minimoni is cute. RM has been hyping 'mochi sexy' since 2015.

I do think Tae, Jin and Yoongi are the closest too (+Namjoon through Jin) on one side while Hobi, Jungkook and Jimin are the closest on the other side. This is a bit OT so in spoilers:

Spoiler

BV4 was much of an eye-opener about this

- Hobi, Kook and Jimin didn't see the others for a month even though Yoongi, Jin and Tae were also in Seoul, even for Kook's birthday

- Kook and Hobi arrived together at the dorm while Namjoon, Yoongi and Tae were already at the dorm, Jimin and Jin arrived alone

- When Namjoon asked Tae if he went to Jeju with family, Yoongi answered "no, with friends" before Tae and only Jin seemed to also know about it 

- Namjoon joined Yoonjin's fishing crew and they keep bugging Tae to join 

Also Tae and JK's rooms have been removed between BV3 and BV4 (they used to be in the livingroom). So where do Kook and Tae sleep/keep their stuff at the dorm? Yoongi and Jin switched rooms also between BV3 and BV4 (as seen in BV4 + Yoongi and Jin's lives) so now Jin has the small study and Yoongi has the master room with a private bedroom.

Draw your own conclusions, I've drawn mine.

Overall I'm not sure about Jin, I find him extremely hard to read. Like, the stuff he does with members he can be seen doing with MCs or comedians he've just met (like the "wink" he did the same to Heechul which left him dumbfounded, no small fit) and I feel like his "chemistry" with Tae comes a lot more from Tae than Jin. He also said he was very silent privately (one of the reasons he got along with Yoongi) so I have real trouble separating what's his real personality from what is good acting, good MCing and good overall variety skills + making the members feeling at ease.

The fact that he doesn't play along the ideal type question (Brad Pitt answers) might be the most compelling thing to me. It's just a bit weak on its own to make an argument for it for me personally (well as of now).

Spoiler

Also I think he's quite emotionally/sexually immature but not in the way you seem to interpret that statement (I'm not sure actually how you interpret it?) but more like he has a, maybe not quite asexual, but wary take on love? I just feel like he doesn't make love a big part of his life and doesn't actively seeks for it maybe (which would make him a bit unexperienced and this is what I meant by "immature"). But then I feel like he could be very VERY much different in private and that's why I find him hard to read. He's good at image managing.

Also I have the very unpopular opinion that Jimin might be bi with a preference for women (but it's not the place to argue about that). It's gonna probably spur a lot of Jimin evidence (which is fair) but I've seen it all and I'm still doubtful. In spoilers for people who are still curious:

Spoiler

What people see as flirting with men I see cockiness more often than not and he's also extremely aware of what makes him popular with fans. Also people who see him as a "baby" are wrong: he's very obviously assertive, probably the most assertive member in BTS. Even Hobi and Namjoon both said Jimin felt like a Hyung to them and they're the official and unofficial leaders of the group (but that's another debate)

Edit: just to be clear I don't think Jimin being assertive makes me any less potentially LGBT, I just think fans have preconceived opinions about him and fail to see when it's his persona and when it's his actual personality.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:48 PM, dumdidumdi said:

As for the OT part:

  Hide contents

 

 

OT part too:

Spoiler

I totally agree with all of this. I don't know how I sounded but I never thought Tae and JK weren't close anymore, I just think they regretted the times when they were partners in crime. And I also didn't mean the group wasn't close anymore! I just think they slowly developped more affinities with certain members that most fans failed to notice (the fandom is really stuck in that Taekook/Jikook/Maknae line, Namjin, Sope kind of mentality). And I think they made an effort to get closer as a whole in 2020 and it was really nice to see.

For the dorm you can see it in episode 1 and compare with BV3 episode 1 if you want: you can see that Jungkook's room connects with Hobi and Jimin's room, they have to go through JK's room to enter theirs, you can see his room through their open door). In BV3 Yoongi had the small room with black curtains:

Which is now Jin's room:

He now has the big one:

Which used to be Jin's (that's all I found on Twitter but you can see the entire sequence in BV3):

But I do think they use it fairly regularly, like during promotions it's probably more practical to all drive them from the same place and they often do lives in it, gives them a safe place to share with fans. It looks like they also gather here to hang out the 7 of them (like when they ate together after a concert and JK decided to go fetch a camera do to a surprised video for fans that ended up in the Break the silence movie).

About dorm life, they had shown the original ones in BV3 and then later realised Jin and Yoongi had switched in lives they did at the dorm. BV4 showed the changes and some fans noticed (this kind of things blows up on Twitter). It created a bit of an internal war within the fandom between fans who thought they were all living together as seven 24/7 and those who thought they also had personal places that were now their main home.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:54 AM, Taecoholic said:

OT

 

  Hide contents

People seem to forget that In the Soop is a freakin TV show and follows a certain script/storyline for entertainment purposes. Does it make sense for you Tae and JK to talk about their innermost thoughts in front of so many cameras (with the audio technical staff monitoring their entire conversation) if they’re seriously trying to patch up things!? The whole situation made it seem like Taehyung and Jungkook never spend any time with each other. The amount of hours BTS work together and rehearse and go on BTS work related vacations like summer package/BONV etc, so you’re telling me Tae and JK never had the time to talk? How can two people who spend a lot of time together never find the time to talk to e/o...? How have they never had a drink together? Not saying this has no truth to it at all. Festa notes implied that Taehyung was reserved about things that were on his mind and i don’t want to question everything now but making this available content?? I don’t doubt that things have changed, them too and maybe they had problems communicating at some point but seriously, this doesn‘t explain why this would suddenly be a topic open for the public, when BH has taken so much time in the past, cutting their interactions as if they don‘t exist in the same space? Only 3 minutes in whole 10 hours dvd… Not even a single picture in the exhibition where BTS’s memories of 5 years are exhibited… 

 

 If you’re awkward and dont speak, it takes at least a week or two to get eased to eo again (speaking from experience) the fact that Taekook carried on the next episodes cuddling, cooking and sleeping together, playing and them being really close/cuddly on camera certainly didnt help give credibility to their newfound attempt to bond again. Honestly this is so transparent lol For God's sake, they had a list of what to do during the day before even they got there. If they thinking they had enough filmed, before even finishing a game, they just throw things and went to do other things lol Same thing happened with the Taekook speech. As soon as they thought they had film enough, they both just got up and left without saying anything just like that lol

 

I also agree that Jihopekook's friendship is highly promoted. Maybe Big Hit was pllaning to send BTS members to the army in two groups and will likely send Taehyung and Jungkook separately. Taehyung and Jungkook are the most popular members of the group. So they will send Taehyung with RM, Suga and Jin first, most likely 3J ( Jungkook-Jimin, J-Hope) become a unit. 2 vocal and 2 rap members will be back together and one of them will be one of the most popular members. Both groups are have enough popularity to release album and go on tour. 

 

 

Spoiler

I have trouble following your train of thoughts: once you say they cut their interactions and the next minute you say Tae and Kook are seen cuddling, really close, cooking and sleeping together on camera? Also I don't think they stopped talking altogether nor that they fought, I just personally think they weren't as close as they were as trainees/rookies and maybe regretted those times, took that opportunity to do things together? Also why some things Tae said would be safe to take for the truth (him saying he went through a rough patch) but not others (him saying it was a long time since he's had a one-on-one talk with JK)?

Also my take on 3J doesn't rely on official content. Without mentioning the things they said during BV4: Jungkook and Jhope literally have bought apartments on the same floor across each other on the same day. They're always cuddling/touching as soon as they're near each other, when they spot the other one sleeping they immediately go to join him, Jhope said Jungkook kept slipping in his bed, Jungkook always smells Jhope's neck area, said Jhope's bed had a nice smell, Jhope kissed Jungkook's neck when Jungkook said Jhope would stay with him, Jungkook cried the hardest when Jhope almost left the group, they had private "dates" just the 2 of them to the Han river with Jhope's dog or in a gastronomy restaurant. And yet they're far from being even remotely a popular ship: they're not pushed, that's just them (maybe not as much lately, but until recently at least). 

I'm also curious about the military plan they'll choose but I'm very certain the company won't have a say in this (advice at most). Even enslaving companies like SM don't meddle with that because it is a very personal issue. Whatever happens in this regard, I'm sure will be the members' decision.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

28 minutes ago, chargerdine said:

I feel like J-hope has made it abundantly clear he is closest to Jungkook and Taehyung, but for some reason people keep adding Jimin to the mix (who yes he is clearly also close too) lmao. So I find it really hard to believe the 3J promotion has not made some type of psychological impact on what people see. Maybe 3J is JUNGKOOK's closest trio since you keep bringing up his bday, but I would not say that's the case for J-hope and probably even Jimin tbh.

People has to show this 3j promo because I fail to remember anything in the last 2 years (I think one photoshoot and the Idol intro at MMA both in 2018? that's it?). They had lot of content before because they were the dance line (mostly practicing/freestyling or dancebreaks and then Tae was often there--until he moved to RM's room).

Jhope is the one who said he wanted to live with Jimin forever, just today said that Jimin had made this year happier and less lonely for him so he hopes it will be the same for 2021 and Jimin replied "this hyung can't live without me". And it's obvious Jungkook and Jimin are really close?

Spoiler

 

I mean it's not just JK's birthday. When Jimin talked about his trips during their month break to Tae, only Jungkook and Jhope knew about it, even added to the story. I don't think any of these 3 are dating or anything, there was just a period where they were the closest (while still being close to other members) and I don't get what's wrong with that?

Edited January 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

double post

Edited January 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

The unlikely/likely question has been addressed many times before.

1 LGBT member in Nsync

2 (out of 4) in Blue

2 (out of 5) in Spice Girls that have hooked up

Union J (2 out of 5)

Boyzone has 2 and they were together (out of 5)

A member of Westlife (out of 4) and a member of V were together

The Overtones has 2 (out of 5) etc etc.

And that’s just 7 groups out of the few that are still relevant enough that it’ll get media exposure in their country but not relevant enough that it’ll endanger their careers (point is: even in these groups some are still in the closet because coming out is still no easy thing to do). 

Proportions of LGBT persons in entertainment fields are higher than in others (especially in Kpop that is a niche in SK that "real men shouldn't like") and these groups were only 4/5 with 1 or 2 LGBT members: now imagine if you throw 7 to 12 members in the same house with 30 to 50% of LGBT members (so from 3 to 6 LGBT persons living 24/7 together in a way 90s bands didn’t) and the chances of hooking up/getting together increase even more.

In the Kpop world, I do believe (and it’s a popular consensus) that there was something between Yunjae and between Jongkey. There also might have been a beginning of a something between Verkwan.

 

By the way for people who think companies will try to control every one of their interactions and such, SM is known for being the evil of all companies and they didn’t control every single word Jaejoong or Key said (for example and boy did they have a lot to say). And if you want to argue about difference in popularity TVXQ was the biggest thing there was back then (bigger than 2017-2018 BTS even). Pledis can also take the cake in terms of evilness and they didn’t try to hide Verkwan more than any other pairing. Point is: stuff idols hide, they don’t need to be told by their company, they know how it could endanger their careers, especially in SK and they just get image managing lessons (on many other points too).

I’m only saying this because I feel like some people are starting to head into conspiracy theory territories with BigHit. We’re talking about a company they renewed with in october 2018 (and I’m sure the members had great lawyers to negotiate their terms) and a boss who gave them parts of his own personal stocks (a very rare thing in the music industry, sure never seen in SK) that makes them the bosses after him in BigHit. Like yes, BTS members are the second share-holder after Bang Sihyuk from BigHit (there are company outsiders who have more stocks but WITHIN the company the 7 of them together are second only to Bang Sihyuk), they're bosses now so miss me with the "baby boys who are controlled by the evil company" as if Jungkook is 2 seconds away from showing "two fingers if you're held hostage against your will".

BTS members in october 2018 were much bigger and richer than BEAST were when they funded their own label: if they had wanted to, they could have. I know it’s not all rainbows and sunshine, they probably had power struggles at some points (all business because BTS members are businessmen) but it’s obvious there is some level of trust between BTS and Bang Sihyuk that allow them to reach consensuses after disagreements.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

36 minutes ago, Dont mind me said:

I don't think they are controlled by BH so much, but more so that the guys have learned the value of their cooperation. It's all about revenue I believe and that also explained the song dynamite. They have a lot to lose if they are very open with their opinions. Especially in an environment like SK. Recently there was an article about how pregnant women should even still take care of household duties before they go into labor and this was on a official government website for obstetrics. Now imagine gay rights, that won't happen anytime soon. So realistically the guys are choosing money over being woke. This of course doesn't mean they can't give us any hints here and there, but it won't be overt like an SM or YG idol would do. They would lose millions a year if they did so. 

Oh! I guess you interpreted that about BTS being more or less vocal about their support (which wasn't what I meant by that, some people were basically saying the members's words and actions were monitored/staged by the company, that's what I was pointing out).

About what you said I agree, totally. I personally think they just move/talk in the realms of what SK current society allows them to. Their influence is double-sworded: they are promoted/supported by the governement but they're also considered South Korea's representative to the world in a way, so they probably have a lot of pressure to show a "proper" image (an image the government approves). They're also probably warier of their words in the US because what would go under radar in SK in the past sure won't in the West nowadays and if it blows up, it'll reach SK sooner or later. That's why I think they're more careful than they used to about some things.

Edited January 11, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

On 1/11/2021 at 6:06 PM, Dont mind me said:

Aah okay, got it. 

Yes they're careful, but I also think they are business people like you said. When they became big in 2018, that is the year I believe they question themselves whether or not they wanted to stay together, I don't believe it's only just because of the idol life style that some were tired of. I think they also knew what came along with it and how much musical freedom/personal freedom they would give up. Honestly, from their point of view I would make the same decision. Get the money and have some fun, then drive off into the sunset. At least they became millionaires and can support their families. 

Under spoilers because we are getting a bit OT 

Spoiler

I agree they gave up on musical freedom but it's not as bad as it could: they won't make direct money from their own music but at least they can get it out there, even make MVs out of it which is more than all a lot of musicians in the world can say. 

 

I wonder what happened in 2019 though:

- They abruptly announced a two-months break in 2019 (and every media jumped on the wagon to say they were disbanding/over which baffled the fans/made the fans laugh, but what if they just knew something we didn't)

- They delayed/rescheduled MOTS Shadow (Black Swan title track) and MOTS Ego (ON title track) that ultimately became one comeback (MOTS 7) instead of the 2 opus planned. Same with Yoongi saying his mixtapes was supposed to be released in September 2019 but "stuff happened" (his own words)

- Their agreement with Dispatch falling apart (Jungkook and Yoongi's "scandals", deleting all BTS content on their site)

- Members were looking off at the beginning of 2020.

- Heavy staff presence during lives.

 

Then halfway through 2020:

- the agreement with Dispatch was back on.

- Bang Sihyuk gave stocks to the members in a way they'd become the 2nd most powerful entity within the company after only him (there are outsiders with more stocks than them but inside BigHit they're second).

- Military became mandatory at 30 instead of 28, "coincidentally" the year Jin had to leave.

- on Iland and for Dynamite, the members looked way happier and looser.

 

I don't have enough information to speculate more than that but I smell a big power struggle here, something they settled in 2020. So I'm actually expecting the members to act a bit looser now. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

7 hours ago, dumdidumdi said:

 

I wouldn't say discomfort between members as much as overall uneasiness (probably tiredness and worry). Also they are definitely hiding things because they are living human beings and some fans are just not ready to hear that (they've dated/are dating, that's a sure thing). The Itaewon scandal was even stranger that Dispatch went investigating it weeks (even months?) after the pics/rumors popped up: it was a power move and the deal got back on soon afterwards so I guess it was just enough. 

___________________________________________

About the Dynamite discussion : being in english as a way to comfort all fans in the world and whatnot was definitely a promo plan. What did you expect them to say? "we have to sing in english because US stations said they wouldn't spin our songs as long as they're in korean, please buy"? I mean there's so much honesty you can pour into a brand you're trying to sell. The things they act/over-act about are just the things they do (willingly) for business (singing in english, overreacting/acting in variety, displaying/overstating their friendships, their bond as 7 etc). It's no Sherlock thing, that's textbook idol group promo. 

Like that's not who they are, that's their job (think of yourself with your boss/clients: it's a facet of you but not entirely who you are). Fans are just not their friends, definitely not their partners. Some people act like the members have betrayed/cheated on them when they're actually just following a promo plan, like chill. Fans are clients. Loyal clients who helped a small store get big (so of course the owner is thankful and give them special treatment/treats) but just clients nonetheless. And the owner can pour authenticity and love in his store but at the end of the day, it's still a job/business.

Edited January 12, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

21 hours ago, Passwords said:

  Reveal hidden contents

But they wanted to. I’m not sure why some people here think they hate Dynamite, but I don’t see that at all. They’re simply playing the game to win. They have wanted a #1 and a Grammy win for ages, and they want it as a way to end their US chapter by completing every single major goal an artist could have, and they realized they could only do it with an English song hence why they went looking. Not only that, but I strongly believe enlistment has intertwined itself in the importance of a Grammy win as well. I bet if they win a Grammy they’ll cool back on conforming to the US’ desires and exemption will become a massive topic. The government has already shown they’re not keen on BTS leaving, too much money and attention to be lost if they do, hence that idol military extension law they made the other day that only applies to them lmao. I’m sure they’re disappointed they had to sing in English for people to finally give them a chance, but they knew what had to be done for their careers.

 

Spoiler

SO SO true !!

And for people wondering what they have to gain, it's obvious as you listen to them speak in the previous Grammys and why they mostly wanted a "relevant nomination" before a win: they know why they're famous, they know what makes them popular/viral and it's performance. They want to perform to (rightfully) show off and get to another step of promo that will allow them to gain traction/publicity without having to switch to english full-time.

 

[OptimusPremier]

Just dropping by because I've stumbled upon this reaction video and I think it says a lot about the whole "Yoongi's disputable lyrics" thing as the hip-hop fan reactioners genuinely wondered about his sexuality because of the lyrics. His questionable verses are not a hip-hop slapback kind of thing, like some people argued in the past. I don't know if Yoongi intended to sound like he's into guys, but it comes across anyway.

At 10:43 

 

[OptimusPremier]

On 5/20/2021 at 1:27 AM, Taecoholic said:

Rap fans and rapper are two different things. For example, the rapper below immediately noticed the double meaning in the lyrics, which we find suspicious in both of Suga's songs.

 

 

Firstly the video he reacts too has a very tamed translation of the lyric (here "my voice will turn you on",  in reality "my voice will make you come" + more recent version with Hoseok moaning in the background) and secondly right after the line, he comments "I don't care which way I'm swinging" ? The lyric made him question sexuality.

In the second video, he froze when he read the  "i get to fat-dick them" line, repeated it and stopped to explain--justify?--it. So this might not be the best exemple to counter my point.

And I'm not saying Yoongi wasn't talking about his rapping, he definitely was. I'm saying that he used a sexual line to say it, implying he takes smug pleasure in making men come and moan too. About the other line, it almost sounds like something that a fierce gay man could snap back at a homophobic man to make him purposely uncomfortable (scared I'll fuck you? or I could you make you cry with my dick type of way, just to explain the vibe ). And I also don't say he did it on purpose, I'm saying that it's a kind of snapback that comes naturally to him. Well, that's the vibe I am personally getting.

On 5/20/2021 at 1:22 AM, BYULTENHWALL said:

theres literally a tiktok series on sus lyrics rappers have written 

Sus enough that it becomes a tiktok series, so not so usual I guess?

Edited April 11, 2022 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

4 minutes ago, BYULTENHWALL said:

sooo, ure saying all the rappers with sus lyrics are gay too?

Why not? Hip-hop is known to be even less tolerant than other music circles (I suggest looking for what Lil Nax X has to say on the subject--even he originally planned to die with his sexuality as a secret). It's not surprising that most LGBT rappers would be in the closet: hip-hop verses are more often homophobic than implying sexual fluidity.

[OptimusPremier]

3 hours ago, BYULTENHWALL said:

the lyrics arent alluding to sexuality but instead are meant to intimidate their enemies or whoever their beefing, used for play on words, for exaggeration or just for the shock factor. its pretty common too. https://www.hiphopmyway.com/gay-rap-lyrics/4/?ipp=3

lil nas is right. the likes of lil uzi and playboi carti big bisexual vibes, but thats not what these lyrics are giving.

You say it's pretty common and post an article with 0 interaction from a very small outlet? When i tried to search about it, the only trendy post about it that I found was "10 rap lyrics unintentionnally gay--so hilarious!!!" Like joke on that rapper because he sounds gay and that's laughable? It just implies that rappers shouldn't sound gay. It's just plain homophobic and it makes my point--it is not common to sound gay in hip-hop. It's even laughed at.

[OptimusPremier]

37 minutes ago, lighterxx said:

oh are you talking about this dude? 

i think it was explained what is meant was whether its a friendship of convenience or lasting one, tho i think it rose everyone's eyebrows o.o it was definitely a weird moment, even seokmin saw it as more like crush lol

Oooh that's definitely an interesting story (I'm one of the very few who thought Jeonghan wasn't straight and my guts didn't fail me, I think). Especially the fact that the guy said that he still didn't know what it meant.

[OptimusPremier]

26 minutes ago, Otterly said:

It kind of sounds like he is just trying to embarrass him. Especially with that part about also trying to hit him in the face. It doesn't sound like a real conversation people have.

The flow and meaning might have gotten lost in direct translation. What's interesting to me is that the dude said Jeonghan made him flustered with a question about love and friendship, and is still wondering what Jeonghan had meant by that.

Edited May 20, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

27 minutes ago, Bushi said:

Only he can truly know but I think you've got to ask yourself a couple of things:

'Does this person, with all his back history and strife, and street smarts, understand the concept of dual/multiple meanings?' 

Once you have this answer, multiply it by 'was it ever clarified after its release, or were people left to interpret it how they wanted?'  

That's the answer imo. 

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying it's not a clever wording with multiple layers, it is. I'm saying that using a sexual innuendo involving the idea of seducing men is not common in hip-hop--his inspiration. I personally don't even think that he did it on purpose for the ambiguity to arise, probably didn't expect eventual questioning. It was just a good slapback for him and I think that says something about his character. Especially since after its release and the questioning, Hoseok moaned on all stages during the verse--it was planned beforehand--and I'm gonna take this specific move as purposeful, unlike the original line. He owned its ambiguity, further highlighting it.

Well, that's my take. Many more things about Yoongi justify to think that he's not straight, so this theory just fits with the bigger picture.

Edited May 20, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

 I have real trouble understanding this thread's adamancy in undermining all of Yoongi's questionable statements under the "He didn't mean it" umbrella all the time for x or y reason (each time I bring one receipt up, I get the "I think he's not straight but about this one..." no matter which one it is).

If a rapper says "my flow makes all the girls' p*ssies wet" would you say that "it was just a metaphore!" or would you think that this guy probably doesn't treat women right? His choice of words would say something about the kind of person he is, just like Yoongi's choice of words says something about himself.

For me the line has the same vibe as Yoongi thinking that he showed that guy a good battle move at 0.20 :

I don't think that he was trying to seduce that guy, but the fact that he thought about this sexual move to "battle-brag" against another guy says something about him.

_______________________

 

Like Yoongi says "Whether you're a guy or a girl, my tongue will make you come" and y'all are like "Semantics!" while Hoseok moans in pleasure in the background.

He says "It's not limited to a girl" or even according to some translators "it's not exclusively/limited to heterosexuality", you say that it was "lost in translation".

He says "There's nothing wrong [with same-sex love]. Everyone's equal." Well he must be supportive (even though a very supportive Namjoon was carefully choosing his words, much vaguer in comparison.)

"You know, honestly, I've been thinking that men from Gyeongsang-do are good-looking." He was obviously talking about himself. 

He wore LGBT limited edition Vans only available in stores. Oh, must be the stylists' choice (right, they saw LGBT shoes and thought "oh that's totally Yoongi" not sure how it makes a point)

"Someone who's masculine. I like masculine, macho type with beard. Line Wonbin-ssi or Cha Seunghyun-sunbaenim." Ok this one I didn't see much denials at least jhgflkjhgfrt

And what about girl type? "Streetwear." What do you look at first on a girl? "Her bag." How do you ask a girl out then? "You say get out." He was just tired of the questions!

In 2013-2014, he was strangely going back-and-forth: when he was made to wear the maid dress, he said "Hip-hop is dead" shamefully, before taking a pretty kind of selca in the dress (which I think ties with his identity struggles as a rapper) or he ranted about Hoseok's "charms" before saying "My heart doesn't flutter for him! Because... my heart doesn't flutter for men [laughs]" (My guess is that his heart did flutter for Hoseok around that time). He also rubbed a towel all over Jimin's abs in the shower (he did show more or less attraction for all the members at some points, like saying Namjoon's exposed chest was erotic, and I could do an entire post of him checking them out). My take is that he thought that he was bisexual but in 2016, he started being unforgiving with any girl question, stopped openly flirting with female fans, so I think that he realized that he was actually gay and it might have a play in his anxiety.

He wrote fanfics about a male singer and a male athlete he used to follow (whether together or separately that's a specific type of fanboying over men that is rare to see in straight guys)

He got his facial hair removed with laser (again rare to see in straight guys, other guys from BTS and most idols all have their facial hair intact, from what I've seen, and sometimes even let it grow after military, so it's not a kpop thing)

His story with Zhoumi was intriguing (Zhoumi said in a chinese interview that Yoongi regularly showed up at night in his home, waking him up, and when they asked "how?" he said that Yoongi had his home password, they asked "to do what" and he said "drink coffee". Like coffee? In the middle of the night? They had a 7-years age difference and had known for a few months in 2014, but still used banmal between them. When Yoongi described his ideal male type quoted above, Zhoumi said "I'm disappointed. I thought he would say me because we're close." Zhoumi used to attend BTS concerts but in 2016, they suddenly stopped mentioning each other altogether.)

His story about his male friend in Spring Day and Dear My Friend, although I think that one might really be about just a friend, it's possible that Yoongi didn't see him as such ("I hate you and as I say these words I miss you even more" seem a bit intense for just a friend, especially dedicating him 2 songs about longing).

What would you do in the Little Mermaid's place ? "I'll choose to keep my legs. Half-fish, half-human? We can still learn sign language. The Prince will understand if he loves me that much, but without legs... [laughs] it won't be easy..." Like he went full-on introspection and I have a small hunch of what wouldn't be so easy to do with the Prince without legs... Other guys didn't get so personal or detailed for the same question, didn't imagine themselves with the Prince like this. (Jimin came the closest to, but kept it short and vague)

This is without mentioning stuff that is actually debatable like being close friends with Heechul (who I still think is gay) or asking for Daniel's number on their first meeting. Also very debatable, but I wonder if Seo Taiji and him didn't flirt a bit during rehearsal for the 25th anniversary concert thing (it's just a thing I wondered after seeing videos from Seo Taiji's side but nothing much).

Yoongi is straight-forward and not a man of many words. He always says meaningful things about studying, having a dream, anxiety, but when he says stuff like that, he didn't mean it? I mean put 2 and 2, he might be just good at dropping those things without caring and it flies over most people's heads. But in a gay thread, I didn't expect it to get over ours. 

He's one of the idols with the most receipts that doesn't involve shipping or kinky stuff.

Edited May 22, 2021 by OptimusPremier

[OptimusPremier]

1 hour ago, Dont mind me said:

@OptimusPremier

I think you are missing the point. I am not debating with you that he is gay/bi/pan, its just that I dont think him using those words confirms anything. 

I know you did, read the first part of my answer. If he ever had confirmed anything, we wouldn't discuss it. I chose to answer generally because it's a trend: when a receipt is brought up (this line or another thing in the list I've made), people undermine that specific point (separately, most of his receipts get undermined), so I wanted to remind everyone of the bigger picture.