Which male idols do you think are gay?

[cjbenny]

I wanted to to make a post talking about all of the members that I  think that are LGBT+ in the groups I follow, starting with NCT that gets so much of my attention. But this would take so much of time, so I decided to start with some and keep going as informations were keep coming up. 

Awesome write-up! These are the kind of analyses that I love, I appreciate your hard detective work.

[cjbenny]

Can somebody, please, help me? I remember someone posted about Korean LGBT organisation but I don't remember any detail. Is it a charity organisation? Does anyone have an official link to their account or smth? Does anyone maybe know any other Korean LGBT charity organisation? I will be realy grateful if somebody will help me.

Hi! Others have posted about them, but I did post their update here a few weeks ago. The project is called Rainbow Teen Safe Space run by Solidarity for LGBT Human Rights of Korea. Their goal is to provide shelters for LGBT teens to get help on counseling, medical services, food, etc. Here's a link to their funding page. There's unfortunately not a lot of other organizations out there. Thankfully, events (as other posters here have also mentioned) like the Seoul Queer Culture Festival and the Daegu Queer Culture Festival are crucial for awareness and visibility. Hopefully there are some ways to donate and support them too.

 

Edit: It looks like there's a QR code link on the Seoul Queer Culture Festival site that allows for donations to be given and merchandise to be purchased, but I'm not sure if it's for Korean citizens/residents only. Hopefully someone who understands Korean can give better info on that.

Edited January 10, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

You are our patron saint burntgucci, thanks for taking the time to compile all of this. I'm sure I speak for all us NCTzens by saying we â¤ï¸ you!

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

[cjbenny]

Anyone watching Discipline on youtube?

 

It's a Korean web series and one of the characters is gay.

I love the series because it's more realistic than things you see on Korean tv. People been saying it is a bit like Skins on Skam.

 

EDIT: A link for the first four episodes so far:

 

 

Off topic but speaking of Skam, the French version of Skam is ridiculously good. As someone who thought the original Norwegian version was one of the best LGBT coming of age portrayals (and also of people suffering bipolar disorders) in recent media, the French version is just as good. The two leads have amazing chemistry and of course, it's a lot more sensual than the original too.

 

 

 

 

[cjbenny]

Can we be clear about this um, illuminating discussion? Homophobia isn't just physical violence and insults, it's a spectrum of discrimination targeted towards the LGBT community, a lot of which is systemic in traditionally conservative/heavily religious societies like South Korea. I had a group of friends who out of nowhere, used the word faggot to describe someone. I quickly learned that they used that word liberally when I wasn't around, and only held back because of my presence. Did they hate gay people or have a problem with me? No, I don't believe so. Was that was still homophobia? Absolutely. They didn't understand the connotations and hate that poisoned that word, and worse, didn't think it was a big deal. I had to have a LONG talk with them about how insulting and demeaning it was to me, and I am trusting their promises that they learned their lesson to not use it anymore. You can be damn sure that a lot of people who don't say anything when they see a girly makeup wearing twink, are still homophobes who are only biting back their tongues because they're afraid they'd rightfully be labeled a bigot. 

 

One last point, anecdotal evidence based on personal experience as a non-native Korean doesn't erase the fact that LGBT individuals in South Korea face so many struggles. Gay relationships have no merit in the eyes of the law. Same-sex relations in the military is a punishable offense. Up until recently, LGBT foundations couldn't even register as a charity because of discriminatory rejection from the government. Other than Hong Seok-cheon, Harisu, and Holland, how many out and open Korean celebrities are there? Cheolsoo and Jangho, the gay Korean couple frequently discussed here, wished in a video that they could openly hold each other's hands in public without fear. And although he isn't a Korean idol, Aaron Yan's recent scandal and his opening up about how much he personally struggled with his sexuality are all the more damning because Taiwan is considered one of the more LGBT friendly Asian countries, and it shows how far that region of the world has to go.

 

These are irrefutable facts about the state of being a homosexual in Korea. It isn't pretty, and there's a reason why any LGBT idols haven't come out. They risk harming their career and livelihood, and regardless of how open young Koreans are on LGBT rights, unless they mobilize on a political level to enact changes, things are going to remain this way.

Edited March 9, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Do you know who Milo Yianopolis is? He has a world tour with the word "faggot" in the headline. I don't find it offensive either.

I very well know who Milo is. I won't give a full-blown discussion on him because I do not want to derail this thread any further. But suffice it to say, I will not take lessons on the political correctness of the word fa***ot from a gay-identifying man who believes that young boys and adult men can have consensual sexual relationships, and vehemently supports a president who has been unraveling the rights of LGBT people in this country. Milo is lower than scum to me.

 

And regardless of whether you find that word offensive, doesn't change the fact that it has been used for decades to demean gay men. To mark them as lesser than everyone else. I find it offensive and I know a hell of a lot of other people who do too. I heard people using that word when Proposition 8 passed in my home state of California, and I heard it all my life growing up. And to your comment about anti-discrimination laws existing, so what? Did those laws help Holland, who has already stated the horrible bullying that he endured? Did they help Hong Seok-cheon who was fired and vilified in the public sphere when he came out?

 

I'll end it at this because I feel like this is totally dampening the mood here, but if that word truly doesn't bother you, then I'm glad. I'm also glad that you haven't experienced a lot of outright homophobia in your life to make you feel scared or hated. That shows how much progress the world has made on these issues. But I say this to a lot of younger gay people I know, who didn't live in times where gay people had no rights at all, don't ever forget the countless generations that struggled before to allow us to reach this point in human history, where being open about your sexuality won't ostracize you from society or put you in jail. As others have said here, you cannot take your own personal experience along with some nebulous claims about Korean youth to make a blanket statement about gay people in South Korea. It goes against so much evidence to the contrary. Anyways, this was an interesting debate to be had and I do appreciate your responses being civil with the rest of us, but hopefully, we get back to making this thread full of cuteness again.

Edited March 9, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Question for everyone here, is there a consensus of idols whose body language immediately pings you? Like, the way they walk and sit and generally move about? I've been watching Taeyong lately and I always notice certain gestures and movements that he does, that sets off my gaydar (but as a Taeyong stan, I may be projecting lol). Anyway, I obviously I don't want to generalize or adhere to stereotypes, but as we saw with Jimin in Malta, some things are just so innate that it's practically unconscious. 

[cjbenny]

It's depressing to see a thread that I always visit to cheer up with some cute content, devolve into this mess. I doubt any mods will read this but I just urge any of you who have been called out for the last few pages to stop feeling combative and at least try to place yourself in the place of people who are making perfectly clear and logical arguments to why they feel the way they do. For the mods and admin, you are all in a position of power and with it, I hope you come with the capacity to empathize with why some of us were infuriated by why this entire mess started. That instead of feeling like we're some insidious or unreasonable crowd, that maybe we have a pretty damn good reason to why we're pissed at the implications that some members were accusing us with. 

 

And honestly, piece of advice from someone who's worked in retail and management for a large chunk of my life, this would've gone a whole lot better if every single one of you wasn't coming off as combative and accusing people repeatedly of "putting words into our mouths". You see a lot of us are angry, and instead of biting your tongue, trying to calm everyone down and at least trying to understand what might've triggered us in the first place, a lot of you just threw fuel on the fire.

 

Being gay in South Korea comes with too many dangers. That's why there are no gay idols. It's the same damn reason I was afraid to come out two decades ago because I still lived in an America (and with a religious Filipino family) where being gay would have only caused me harm. There are no LGBT idols because the LGBT idols would never risk their careers by coming out. And that complicates things to no end because it convinces way too many fandoms that these idols are all presumably straight. There's a reason why I visit this thread and very few others on this site. I've seen too many posters mocking us here as weirdos or perverts. We aren't calling on people to come out or enforcing sexualities on idols. We sure as hell aren't sexualizing minors. We are simply discussing which male idols we think are gay, in an industry that is likely crawling with gay guys trapped in neverending heteronormativity. And God do I hope and pray where I can see the day when a gay idol can come out without any backlash.

Edited March 17, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

A straight male here, i've never visited this thread uptil now because i've never been interested in it but because of the news that's spreading around regarding a 'scandal' breaking out in OH that was related to this thread

i checked it out, went through a total of 40 pages to fully grasp what this thread is about and i'm deeply disappointed by the Mods, Especially Darkchoa, to call this thread which conducts civilized discussions regarding idol's sexuality, creepy.

that's messed up.

i believe it's time for some of these mods to be replaced.

I appreciate you voicing your opinion on the matter, having people outside this thread seeing their behavior gives our argument more power. Also, welcome!

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

[cjbenny]

I know it's never a 'right' time necessarily but does anyone think now would be an opportune moment for a really big idol (of any gender) to come out officially? Like, just looking at the way SK is on a knife edge with this Burning Sun scandal, the whole #MeToo and ToiletCam incidents and now the heirs of some of the country's biggest companies mixed up with drugs. 

 

If someone wanted to do it, and have a softer impact amidst a lot of other things going on, might it not be seen as a lesser issue in their society than some of the really serious stuff going on like procurement of women and corruption/land selling, etc?  Or is no time a good time? Would someone really famous still be slayed for being publicly LGBT today, given that the authorities and older population esp. are taught to be so bitchy towards LGBT. Does anyone think their society could cope with it in the midst of all the pandemonium going down? Just curious.  

It's definitely something to think about. The problem I see with South Korea is that their LGBTQ representation is practically nonexistent, even compared to other Asian countries. Even in the heavily Catholic Philippines, there are still a couple of prominent LGBTQ celebs who are featured heavily in the entertainment industry. Counting native-born Koreans, the only one the average person might know is Hong Seok-cheon (as much as I adore Holland, his presence is limited).

 

I mean, in America we have had so many celebs that were practically out even in the earlier days of Hollywood like Paul Lynde and Liberace. Of course, gay rights were nonexistent back then but having people like them around, along with people like Ellen and Rosie O'Donnell years down the line gave the gay community people to look up to before the fight for gay rights reached its peak.

 

I feel like the question of "when" doesn't really matter. Whoever comes out in a public way will cause an uproar no matter what. Sadly, at this point in time, I feel like the only ones who could handle such a thing would be non-native born Koreans who either grew up in another country (like Blackpink's Rosé, or NCT's Johnny and Mark, Stray Kid's Bang Chan and Felix, etc.) or are mixed race ( I.O.I.'s Somi or Seventeen's Vernon) simply because they grew up in environments that had far more acceptance of LGBTQ people. 

 

Regarding the Burning Sun scandal and hidden camera stuff, I would hope that they have no bearing on one another. If a major Korean celebrity were to come out tomorrow, willingly or not, I'd like to think that logical people would be able to differentiate the discussion of someone's sexuality versus some widespread criminal acts that involved an almost unspeakable amount of misogyny. But then again, I always imagine if say, one of BTS were to come out and how much a chaotic shitstorm that would cause among A.R.M.Y., along with the inevitably homophobic meltdowns that would ensue.

[cjbenny]

Hey guys, I got another update from Solidarity for LGBT Human Rights of Korea, the group/organization that runs the Rainbow Teen Safe Space, a program aimed to providing shelter and counseling to LGBTQ youths in South Korea. It sounds like they have been struggling a bit with a increased volume of counseling requests since March is back to school season in Korea. As usual, if you have the means to spare please do so, this is such an important resource for LGBTQ+ youth.

 

DDing Dong (Rainbow Teen Safe Space) 20th letter
By Edhi Park - coordinator

Hello,this is DDing Dong.

Finally, spring has arrived in Korea. We are sending you newsletter with our appreciation.

Last December and January, we got a steady stream of counseling requests from transgender teens. We consulted with teens who had psychological difficulties caused by dysphoria and coming out, as well as those who have not received proper information or medical treatment as teenagers, and those who are having difficulties in gender rectification due to their age.

In February, we had three damage consultations related to being 'outed'. We in DDing Dong have been dealing with this issue constantly, and have actively counseled victimised LGBTQ+ youth to ensure their safety.

In March, as it is back-to-school season in Korea, there were more counseling requests for concerning bullying in school than other LGBTQ+ relate dissues. However, the number of crisis calls for support has increased, and the issues concerning the provision of support are often complicated. We have sought to support teenager sin crisis because of housing in stability mainly due to family violence and neglect.

We are glad to deliver you some good news, too. First,the new office now has more space for teenagers to relax, so there has been a big increase in the number of pre- and post- visiting to the counseling center. In last 3 months, total of 78 LGBTQ+ teenagers visited the center.

Second, DDingdong had advertised for DDingga DDingga. DDingga Ddingga is the name of the group for volunteers who share the values of Ddingdong . Thankfully, lots of people applied this time, and a total of 15 people joined as members of the 5th Ddingga Ddingga.

Regarding the challenge of volunteer straining, we studied and discussed the understanding of the various gender identities / sexual orientations / gender discrimination, education for the prevention of sexual violence / sexual discrimination / sexualabuse, addressing the legitimate concerns for the human rights for youth, and understanding HIV/AIDS.

Recently, we opened for DDing dong pocha as the first Ddingga Ddingga action. We are planning to meet more LGBTQ+ youth through not only pop- up restaurant but also DDingdong restaurant, Rainbow navigation etc.

#DdingdongPocha is the program which runs on the first Saturday of every month where we directly go out to the streets and meet LGBTQ+ youth. We usually talk and eat together, and if necessary, we provide the items they need or counseling support.

#Rainbow Navigation is a support program for LGBTQ+ teenagers who want to be self reliant. We support them on their paths to be independent. In 2019, we are planning to have programs which can help free transgender youth from the gender binary, find their own true identities, enable their freedom of expression, and maintain a proper life cycle for themselves. We will consistently carry out these programs to ensure their desired gender representation and help them to have a place in their community, with respect and support.)

With globalGiving funding and warm-hearted sponsors, DDingDong is able to do various activities and programs. We really appreciate your support and ask for your continued interest and love.

 

 

[cjbenny]

Good God, I'm so happy this place is back. I missed everyone and all the minute little discussions we'd have. And yes please burntgucci, your posts are always eagerly awaited!

[cjbenny]

1 hour ago, taeyong's panicked scream said:

hey guys

apparently taeyong apologized for the bullying in person, but i'm so disgusted by the fact that people overlooks what he did just because he did the BARE MINIMUM which is apologizing.

of course idk the relationship he had with the so allegedly victim or how their conversation went, but this situation really triggered me.

i know it has no relation to the thread whatsoever but i  want to know what you guys think.. to me people who bullied need to have it hard on them in order to understand the insecurities and problems their victims went through. as for my personal experience i went through some breakdowns in life and my insecurities related to my past as a victim of bullying used to haunt me during bad times. forgiveness didn't allow me to have peace...

Long post so apologies ahead of time but Im'ma snatch what I posted on the reddit/kpop page.

As a gay guy (who was bullied in my teenage years) who loves NCT and considers Taeyong as my bias of the group, hearing this story was sad and frustrating. Bullying is flat out wrong, regardless of youth or immaturity or external circumstances involved in the bully's life. For every kid with a troubled life that bullied someone else, there were plenty of other kids with troubled lives that knew better than to hurt others. People who are bullied suffer self-esteem issues and God knows how many other mental health issues that often times can drive them to the brink of suicide, which is all the more damning considering South Korea's ridiculous suicide rates among youth. And as others have pointed out, he is living the celebrity life with millions of adoring fans who will flock to him throughout any controversy. All while the people he bullied are likely watching from the sidelines. There is no excuse for his actions.

However, take aside the cynicism that this comes alongside SuperM's debut. Take aside the fact that SM framed it as a redemption story where the victim forgives him and he has grown from it (because no matter what, we do not know who he really is.)

This story along with things like the Burning Sun Scandal shows that everything in Korean entertainment (or pretty much any celebrity culture around the world) is filtered through a shiny lens. Kpop is rife with young fans who have yet to really comprehend the idea that what they see from ALL these idols is a facade. They watch these countless videos of idols on youtube and decide that they have a deep understanding of who they are as people and what their true selves are. Look, we're human. Some aspect of what we perceive about idols is going to be true because no one is one hundred percent acting for each and every second they're on camera. Yet they are still on camera folks. Their livelihood and successes are dependent on creating an image that is friendly and palatable to everyone, and a jackass making homophobic comments left and right isn't going to sit well in that environment.

I typically stay away from delving too deep into a fandom and attaching myself to these artists because, at the end of the day, they are essentially products made for me to consume and spend money on. I will always appreciate their hard work and their striving to give us entertainment on a regular basis. But I also know that a lot of them are humans who have f*cked up in the past and will likely f*ck up in the future, and that some of them are probably irredeemably horrible individuals.

Do not forget the victim and what they suffered. I will take with a grain of salt that Taeyong learned his lesson and grew from it. Could he be lying through his teeth and still be a jerk? Maybe, but considering we'll never know unless we have a glimpse inside his mind, I will take this action for what it is. An attempt to apologize and ask for forgiveness and to show that he has changed for the better. But the sad thing is that if we do get some idea that he hasn't changed, apologists will flood through the woodwork and defend him to the death all for the sake of maintaining the false idea in their head, that he's a perfect man. All I can really further add is that homophobia in conservative Asian countries is all too effing common and I'm sure he won't get raked over the coals for this compared to other idols who get reprimanded or villified for the most trivial of sh*t.

Edited October 12, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

16 minutes ago, raspberry84 said:

Has anyone here scene amazon's The Boys?

The show starts out with this storyline about how one of the superheroes accidentally kills the main character's girlfriend. The first episode or two look at how it's being spun to the public (asking for forgiveness, apologizing) and includes the hero apologizing to the main character. But behind the scenes it's obvious the Superhero doesn't care, the main character is pressured by the company to take the apology and the hero is making jokes about about killing her to friends.

I kinda wanna force all of the people defending him to watch that and then show them what SM is doing here and see if they make any connections. Cause it's so obvious at this point how fake their whole reaction has been.

For sure. My view of him has already been tainted by this and I'm sure we all know that if SuperM wasn't promoting right now, this apology would never have sprung up. It's calculated beyond all reason. The whole thing just reminds me that while it is a guarantee that there are dozens of LGBT idols that exist, they're also working alongside homophobic pricks, maybe even within their own group. And these idols will happily participate in queerbaiting. I gotta watch that show now, sounds really interesting.

Edited October 12, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

1 hour ago, reiichi said:

Someone came out with the info ten years after the fact, the WEEK SuperM debuted.

Tell me it was a coincidence, I'll laugh.

I am by no means equivocating rape and bullying but the same exact comments were made about Christine Blasey Ford when she brought up sexual assault accusations against Brett Kavanaugh, people claiming that she was smearing him two decades later. She brought it up because he was about to hold enormous power and she wanted her story to be known. Time should not matter when bringing up any form of injustice or cruelty. As someone who has enjoyed watching him these past three years, I hope he changed and matured and that he's sincere in his apology, for the sake of his group members, fans, and everyone else around him. But it ain't my place to decide forgiveness, only his victims can make that decision. Like I said before, we have no idea on who he is other than the things that are coming to light and right now, we know that he has admitted to bullying and this apology is coming at the most convenient time during promotions in America. For many people, that is damning enough.

Edited October 12, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

17 minutes ago, WWW9095 said:

Recent news probably really hurt some of you. Sending to everyone, who needs it, a virtual hug 

You are not a joke. You deserve respect. You deserve love. You matter. I hope, that for each sad second, there will be a week full with happiness, that will follow!

*hugs*

I second this! Sending everyone in this thread some love and hope ya'll are doing well in life!

[cjbenny]

Just now, Gerimolda said:

The lasts posts are super off topic. Can we please let the Taeyong issue aside? There are specific threads for the scandal and at this point is a fight between the two sides. You're not even talking about homophobia anymore

I second this. We're pretty much just going in circles at this point, the two sides are entrenched and not going to change the other's thoughts so let's leave it to the other threads for debate.

[cjbenny]

1 hour ago, LostChild said:

Hello everyone, if i understood well this thread is kind of "guess who's gay in kpop" but you seem to talk about LGBT topics in general related to kpop so there is something i read from a knetizen that i would like to know your opinion about. This person said that some idols develop feelings or attraction to the same sex because they spend almost all their time with trainees or bandmembers of the same sex when women are (supposedly) not available. 

It's ridiculous and outdated thinking similar to some of my personal favorites like, "oh, you just haven't met the right girl/boy..." or "how do you know you're gay if you haven't even been with a woman/man...". By their logic, does a gay guy working in a predominantly female workplace suddenly end up becoming attracted to women since they're barely around other men? Don't get me wrong, if I was taking that knetizen's opinion seriously and in good faith and interpreting it as some argument on how kpop's unique environment of close same-sex proximity might allow easier experimentation to happen between curious idols, then I might somewhat see their point.

But I'm sure we're all aware of South Korea's (and a lot of Asia's) almost nonexistent LGBT representation in media and public life. That means a severe lack of knowledge and constant misconceptions amongst the populace on what homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. is or means. While at school in Seoul this summer, I met a couple of native Koreans who told me that they'd never encountered a gay person before meeting me which still kind of blows my mind.

Edited November 1, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

If I can just add my two cents to this, as someone who's been to far too many funerals in my life, making death seem like the end point for someone's life and existence is misguided. I've mourned for them but I also learned to celebrate their life and impact on me and others. Entertainment deaths are even more magnified in this regard. They will live on eternally in their works, inspiring and moving others long after they're gone. Even though I never followed SHINee too closely, I was aware of Jonghyun's outspokenness on LGBT issues which was almost unheard of from a major K-pop idol. His death was devastating to me becauseI fully believed he would played an important and inevitable role  for LGBT rights in Korea's future (when it inevitably came). He meant something special to LGBT K-pop fans and to ask for any conversation about him to be wiped away despite how painful it is to see him brought up, isn't the correct way to go about this. I do understand that it hurts to talk about him, but for many others I'm sure there is a certain comfort found in seeing his role as a clear ally if not member of the LGBT community when as of this moment, it can be hard to name any Korean celebrity willing to take the stances he took.

[cjbenny]

3 hours ago, witchcocktor said:

I don't think people should succumb to pessimism, since there has been A LOT of change the past 10 years. No, it has not ended up in an idol coming out (yet), but to be blind to all the other progress that's been made is unwise and not fruitful.

This is truly important to note. Although LGBT rights visibility/saturation in the west could heavily be attributed to the visiblility and outspokenness of certain out musicians and actors, the true progress was made by those fighting for LGBT rights at a governmental and societal level. The Seoul Queer Culture Festival had tens of thousands of attendees last year and when I attended Yonsei University (one of Seoul's noted SKY schools) last summer, I was pleasantly surprised to see that their school magazine/newspaper for the month of June was titled "My Child is Gay" and focused on interviewing parents of the LGBT community.

The YouTubers that witchcocktor mentioned are an integral part of this. For a gay teen in Korea, they are proof that one can live a fairly normal life with a successful relationship. In the case of Gim Cheolsoo and his boyfriend Jangho, they continuing to grow because I believe by talking about their lives and struggles as gay men in Korea, they are reaching out to a group desperate for any form of visibility of their identity. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

1 hour ago, Inherited Light said:

And I also think that with idols being such a big image in social media, I’m sure about 95% of them are supportive with lgbt because of how strong a movement the community has become since 2015ish. Lgbt has become a huge positive movement in the world, and the only people who have come to seriously reject it are religious, old school, hags.

While I absolutely agree with your argument that overt skinship and visual gestures shouldn't be the sole determination driving one's speculation, I disagree with the idea that a near totality of idols are supportive of LGBT rights as a whole and that those rejecting it are the old. South Korea is still a conservative nation with strong Christian influence within its government whilst also adhering to the typical aspects of Confucianist influenced societies; the idea of filial piety and ensuring that maintaining the family line is paramount to the individual. It's a country (that according to some indexes like the Spartacus travel index that rate how LGBT friendly each country is based on the rights of LGBT citizens) is ranked 121 out of 190+. I'm also an American that will always have a limited view of how this topic is perceived in South Korea, but I did live in Seoul for a few months and I had some brief insight into the gay community there. It was proud and growing, no doubt about it, but they had barely any visibility amongst the populace as a whole, which is deadly for any type of meaningful legislation and governmental action of LGBT rights. Hell, a recent survey conducted by Macromill Embrain showed that only around 10% out of 739 Korean participants surveyed knew an LGBT individual. 

I'm not sure how old you are but yeah, I also agree with you that things are different today in terms of gay rights. I'm about to enter my third decade of life (shudder) and I grew up struggling with my sexuality in the damn 90's, when visibility consisted of Liberace, Elton John, Will and Grace and uh...maybe Ellen when she came out? I had to witness my mayor in San Francisco, Gavin Newsom getting attacked from all sides for issuing same-sex certificates in the early 2000's. I clearly remember my president, George Dubya running on a campaign in 2004 that used fearmongering around gay marriage as a rallying call to win the election. I remember sitting despondent and hopeless when Prop 8 passed in 2008, in my own home state of California. Progress was not static or constant in the American gay rights movement. From the clarion call of the Stonewall riots to the decision in Obergefell v. Hodges that passed gay marriage, nearly 50 years later, it was a long fought battle that spanned generations.

And while I am hopeful for South Korea's future, I cannot separate the fact that it is so distinctly different not only from western nations but also its neighboring countries, that its march towards any meaningful progress on LGBT rights is going encounter some ridiculous hurdles. I'll leave folks here with one last statistical tidbit. In 2014, Gallup Korea polled people and over 85% of Koreans supported protection for LGBT individuals. Yet every single time legislative efforts were made, they failed to pass in the government. Young people there are becoming more tolerant of LGBT rights, but like most societies, they don't vote in impactful numbers. And if Bushi's quoted article above is any indication, if the youth in South Korea are that miserable with their lives and want to leave, what gives them any theoretical reason to care for the plight of the LGBT community? Like I say constantly, I always remain an optimist about the future but I must also ground my hopes with the reality of a world that is growing increasingly more chaotic as each day passes.

Edited January 4, 2020 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

2 hours ago, Bushi said:

Is it just me that doesn't see the 'young population' of South Korean cities (possibly mostly non K-pop listeners?) as being necessarily the same beast as the young people that generally end up amassing as stans in K-pop fandoms? 

Granted there are lots of really lovely, open-minded Korean K-pop fans, but given the types of responses thrown at Heechul re: being a 'real man', 'thank god he's not gay after all', and the meltdowns on social media any time someone dares say they think an idol might be an LGBT King, a lot of rage and homophobia erupts from K-fandoms almost every day. These are also young people but don't to me really appear connected with the truly LGBT+-supporting Koreans. It's like you wouldn't even put them together to hang out because a pan Korean girl probably more likely listens to Japanese metal and Evanescence and the GOT7 stan only listens to GOT7 and FU! if you dare breathe that Jackson flirts with men. 

  Reveal hidden contents

He does, gurl. 

It's like two different worlds of young people (and no doubt there're more subgroups). But many of those in K-pop fandoms are horribly homophobic and more like the older Christians in their thinking. Like, where's the chill? 

 

This is absolutely anecdotal but when I was at Yonsei University last summer, I was just so surprised to see their school magazine focusing an entire issue on the LGBT community. I saved a copy of it and a portion of it was focused on parents of LGBT students telling their story of accepting their kids. At least in a university setting, it was talked about. Since the demographics of all youth are going to be more diverse than the demographics of kpop fans, I'm sure that as a whole they'll be (if not more accepting), less of the kind that praises Heechul for being a real man. 

[cjbenny]

We've brought up this organization plenty of times before but this current situation is a good reminder about it. If there's any of us with the means to donate (which I know is nigh impossible for some of us due to COVID-19), please do so. For those who may not know, Rainbow Teen Safe Space's goal is to provide a long-term self-sufficient shelter for Korean LGBTQ teens and youth. God knows this current situation is going to disrupt the lives of many in the Korean LGBTQ community and shelters like these need funds to provide that support.

https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/rainbow-teen-safe-space/

Edited May 11, 2020 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

I posted these a while back about Taeyong, figured with these discussions it'd be good to bring em back.

[cjbenny]

4 hours ago, 3/4illustrator said:

That's great news! I could be wrong but I believe historically Thais have been open and friendly to queer people (I think it's because of the prevalence of Buddhism?), in comparison to other East and Southeast Asian countries?

As for SK, to be very honest I don't see much light... it'll be a long way with Confucianism in combination with Christianity as road blocks.

According to an NIDA 2015 poll (all pulled from Wikipedia's page on same-sex marriage) Thailand has by far the most positive opinion of same-sex rights of Asian nations, other than maybe Cambodia. 59% for, 35% against. South Korea (according to a Gallup Korea poll in 2017, although I'm sure there have been more recent polls done) is at 41% for and 51% against. The only Asian country that I see making signifcant progress is Japan. NHK polls from 2017 show 51% for and 41% against and I know that amongst young people, an overwhelming majority (around 80%) of those under 60 years old approve. The good thing about Japan is that a couple of municipalities/prefectures give same-sex certificates but it's nothing legally concrete.

As it happened amongst western nations, the youth are going to be the ones who change things. South Korea as you mentioned is a different beast with its collectivist mentality. However, the support for same-sex marriage has skyrocketed amongst youth in the past decade and it's inevitable that those most adamantly against it are going to die off. Hooray for Thailand though, every little bit of the barrier broken is still progress made for LGBT rights as a whole. It'll take time I'm hopeful that SK make progress as young people continue to gain more power.

Edited July 20, 2020 by cjbenny