Which male idols do you think are gay?

[DarkDawn]

You know what I love about Heechul?

He never DENIES or goes "No Homo". Lately he just laughs it off and let's everyone come up with their own conclusion. He knows that unless he outright says he is gay, it's not a confirmed "label" in SK. He won't say he's gay while he's still a part of SJ since he cares about the group so much and its members but, he's not denying anything either so.....He's social smart. 

[miwa201]

The only groups I know well enough to analyze are BTS, and EXO, so I'm going to focus on them for now. I could be way off base. Please bear with me lmao.

 

Straight:

 

Rap Monster - Ally. Very clearly attracted to women. Comfortable enough with his sexuality that he's never had a 'no homo' moment. His interactions with his members and other guys have always seemed very friendly and brotherly to me.

 

V - For years I thought he was gay, or at the very least bi, but sifting through everything now, I think he's probably straight. I can't really describe it any better than he's a straight boy with a fascination for cute things. Members, animals, babies, etc. The vkook ship used to ping me like nothing had ever pinged me before, but looking back on it, I think he just saw Jungkook like the shy baby maknae, and he was very nurturing towards him because of that. I feel crazy for typing this because I used to think he was 100% without a shadow of a doubt, gay, but I guess I've changed my mind ... for now.

 

Jin - Straighter than an arrow. Perhaps the straightest member in his group.

 

Suho - See above.

 

Chanyeol - Ally. Is in love with every YG female ever to exist.

 

Chen - Very traditionally straight. And I think he has a girlfriend.

 

Lay - His brief 'no homo' moment sealed him as straight for me. But he also kissed Sehun on the lips during that one Chinese variety show way back when, so he's probably more comfortable with his sexuality than people think.

 

Xiumin - To be honest, I feel like he might be asexual. He kinda just bounces around and does whatever, doesn't really show any sort of emotion or attraction towards either men or women. But if I had to choose, I'd say he's probably straight.

 

Bi:

 

Jungkook - To me he's more bicurious. It's going to take a couple more years before I can get a proper read on him. I am leaning more towards straight, though. If he is straight, he's very comfortable and open with men regardless. It could be the cute maknae side of him, or it could be his curiosity poking through. It's still too soon to tell. The way he was watching the Seventeen and GFRIEND stage at the MAMA's this year, for me that kind of sealed his attraction towards women. The smirk, the posture. He was clowning them in his head, but also lowkey wishing he could replace Mingyu in that one section lmao.

 

Suga - Those Cypher Pt. 3 lyrics say it all, no? As you know my voice will turn you on; Whether it's guy or girl, my tongue will make you come. Beyond that, he's very obviously and fiercely attracted to Park Jimin. No one will ever convince me otherwise lmao.

 

Kai - We definitely know now that he's interested in women, and I feel like even if he ignores it, he has shown attraction for men, as well. He seems very comfortable with his bisexuality. Not only attracted to men and women, but also willing to pursue a romantic relationship with either or and everyone who falls in between.

 

 

Gay:

 

Jimin - I can't think of any specific moments.

 

J-Hope - To me he's gay ... and probably forever in the closet. I can't describe it any better than that.

 

D.O - This one doesn't really need explaining ... but yeah, just by the way he interacts with his members and what not, it makes sense. Oh and this could just be some bullshit, but Edward Avila (an SK-based beauty YouTuber) knows someone at SM who is really close to D.O. A staff member, not an idol. I'm not saying that just because Edward's gay that all his friends and his friends' friends are gay, too, but he seemed really hush hush in the video where it was mentioned, which is very uncharacteristic of him. Something about it reallllllly pinged me. You can also throw in any and every Kai and D.O interaction since the dawn of time lmao. D.O has always had a soft spot for him. Whether it's friendship or a crush, it's blatantly clear that he feels some type of special way for Kai.

 

Sehun - He seems very open and comfortable with his sexuality. Sometimes I wonder if he's just a straight ally, but then I catch moments of him in random videos and it all just falls back into place again. To me he's a no brainer. Also HunHan.

I agree that taehyung is attracted to women but I can't see him being totally straight. I keep coming back to his solo song, how vague it is and that rm didn't talk much about it. Stigma is also often associated with homosexuality so maybe it's not just a coincidence. But idk

 

As a yoongi stan I fail to see this "obvious and fierce" attraction to jimin lmao, to me everything about his interactions to jimin scream older brother (esp considering how he helped jimin out when he first got into big hit), hence why he constantly hypes him up. I'd sooner see it with hoseok or even Jin.

 

I actually disagree with hoseok being in the closet. Idk he doesn't strike me like the type to be stuck in the closet.

 

Random but I only followed exo up until wolf and I never got the fuss over hunhan.

[XIUDEAN]

ASTRO reaction to a fanboy during fanmeet

 

 

 

ASTRO are too precious for this world, between this and the skit where Eunwoo and JinJin played boyfriends. I'm almost considering stanning (their music isn't totally my cup of tea but idk)

 

I've been watching his videos for quite a while (and I've checked out some of his very first videos), and this dude has been so interesting to watch. As DaeSan said, he has said he has a gf, and he seems genuine about girls, but while in the old days he was always kind of panicky about saying anything gayish, he's embracing it so much more now. Like just openly thirsting, and even pokes fun at it in his editing. So, I would say obviously bi, but I'm not sure if he identifies that way. Anyway, it's great to see that kind of character development. I'm pretty sure I've posted some of his videos here if you search the thread, or just let me know. 

 

I stopped looking at JRE for a while now because too many of his bg reactions, he did a lot of "pause" and "no homo" type statements and it just turned me off from him (I know his father is Jamaican too so yeah...  ) Has he toned that down significantly from what you can tell? I kinda enjoyed his reactions besides that no homo stuff

[Ringo]

Did someone mention Exo? I've been summoned.

Including ex-exo: gay - Sehun, Tao, Luhan (i know, it's unpopular opinion in this thread but to me, Luhan is as obvious as the other two)

very bi - BBH, Suho, Xiu 

bicurious heteros - Lay, PCY

heterostraight - Jongdae

no idea, could be anything - Kai, Ksoo. and i don't even ship them together, they're just equally confusing individually. Kai "pings" as hell when he's with Taemin. 

 

edit: i knew this post is gonna get negged, i knew it. 

 

And Kris never existed 

 

Agree except for Kyungsoo, who I've thought of as gay for a while now, and Kai, who pings sometimes but not with anyone specific. Still have no fucking clue with Kai and that bugs the piss out of me. He's the Minho of EXO for me.

 

Suho and Xiumin being straight... pffffft 

 

So much negging in the thread lately, probably by specific fans, if I'm guessing correctly. Don't let it bother you too much. Have an upvote.

[XIUDEAN]

Have you guys in here ever discussed the concept of confirmation bias?

 

You know, that thing where people look at new "evidence" on a subject that might be challenging but in their minds they are already convinced of something being a certain way so they just interpret the evidence in a way that maintains their current mode of thinking?

 

I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that mind you, I just know it comes up a lot on gay boards I've been a part of before. Where people often get accused to having confirmation bias concerning certain celebrities being gay/straight/lesbian etc.

[swimgood]

I agree that taehyung is attracted to women but I can't see him being totally straight. I keep coming back to his solo song, how vague it is and that rm didn't talk much about it. Stigma is also often associated with homosexuality so maybe it's not just a coincidence. But idk

 

As a yoongi stan I fail to see this "obvious and fierce" attraction to jimin lmao, to me everything about his interactions to jimin scream older brother (esp considering how he helped jimin out when he first got into big hit), hence why he constantly hypes him up. I'd sooner see it with hoseok or even Jin.

 

 

i can't imagine taehyung being straight after stigma, honestly. it just adds up everything i had been suspecting before, especially considering his well-documented unrequited crush on hoseok from 2013-early 2014. not sure how i stand on his attraction to women but i definitely believe he's interested in men and only recently accepting it

 

and i agree about yoongi, lol. i've always kind of felt like jimin is one of the members of bts he actually has the least chemistry with. recently, i wouldn't be surprised if he picked up where tae left off with regards to having feelings for hoseok

 

 

Straight: 

 

Jin - Straighter than an arrow. Perhaps the straightest member in his group. 

 

Suho - See above. 

 

Gay: 

 

Jimin - I can't think of any specific moments. 

 

 

i agree with jin, but didn't suho have a boyfriend for a while? i put him down as bi in my book. and i've never seen jimin as anything but straight, even though a lot of people seem to feel otherwise

Edited March 7, 2017 by swimgood

[XIUDEAN]

And Kris never existed 

 

Agree except for Kyungsoo, who I've thought of as gay for a while now, and Kai, who pings sometimes but not with anyone specific. Still have no fucking clue with Kai and that bugs the piss out of me. He's the Minho of EXO for me.

 

Suho and Xiumin being straight... pffffft 

 

So much negging in the thread lately, probably by specific fans, if I'm guessing correctly. Don't let it bother you too much. Have an upvote.

 

I don't think I've ever given my thoughts on EXO (and their my biases smh)

 

Sehun - GAY!

Suho - Gay/bi

Baek - Bisexual

Chen - Straight

D.O - gay? (he's confusing)

Lay - straight but bi-curious

Xiumin - Bi (but I can't really tell with him tbh so idk)

Chanyeol - Straight but open minded

Kai - [not sure but would guess straight?]

 

 

I'm basically agreeing with most of your post too so that's why I'm doing this while I'm quoting if you in case you think it's sorta random lol

[swimgood]

i only ever followed exo-m, but my general opinion with them is:

 

tao - bi. maybe gay, but i imagine him to just very much prefer men while still being interested in the stray woman here or there

kris - straight straight straight straight. if i was unsure before, any doubts were removed with his solo career

luhan - straight, maybe a little flexible? but i do think he likes women a lot more

xiumin - straight or bi, i could never get a good read on him even though he's my bias

lay & chen - straight

 

 

 

only semi-related, but i have two roommates—one of them bi, the other straight, while i'm gay—and our respective favourite former exo members are luhan, kris, and tao, so we've (jokingly) decided that's some kind of prophetic insight into their sexualities

 

 

[Zamo]

i agree with jin, but didn't suho have a boyfriend for a while? i put him down as bi in my book. and i've never seen jimin as anything but straight, even though a lot of people seem to feel otherwise

Does anyone have any proof about that guy being Suho's boyfriend? Idt Suho's straight, but I'm not sure the instagram dude was his boyfriend either.

[mikiangel]

I never commented on this thread but here are my 5 cents:

 

100% gay- JoKwon,Heechul,Key,Sehun,Kwanghee.

 

100% straight- all of 2PM except Wooyoung,Lee Joon,Shownu,Seungri.

 

Everybody else fall in between tbh.

[miwa201]

 

and i agree about yoongi, lol. i've always kind of felt like jimin is one of the members of bts he actually has the least chemistry with. recently, i wouldn't be surprised if he picked up where tae left off with regards to having feelings for hoseok

 

 

 

 

i agree with jin, but didn't suho have a boyfriend for a while? i put him down as bi in my book. and i've never seen jimin as anything but straight, even though a lot of people seem to feel otherwise

I'm glad someone agrees as yoonmin is very popular and for the life of me I never got it. Their predebut tweets were textbook fan service to me. Jimin strikes me as someone very savvy when it comes to fan service (including ships).

 

But tbh I once said that I'd sooner believe yoongi was straight than jimin. Would you mind elaborating on jimin not being into guys at all?

[swimgood]

Does anyone have any proof about that guy being Suho's boyfriend? Idt Suho's straight, but I'm not sure the instagram dude was his boyfriend either.

 

the instagram guy seemed to me as a little more than platonic, especially with this discussion during the same time period

 

 

 

and then i remember there being rumours in k-fandom about him having another boyfriend recently? it was briefly mentioned here in february. no explicit confirmation of course, but interesting enough. either way, i wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to have a boyfriend, in the past or currently

[Aisling]

 

I stopped looking at JRE for a while now because too many of his bg reactions, he did a lot of "pause" and "no homo" type statements and it just turned me off from him (I know his father is Jamaican too so yeah...  ) Has he toned that down significantly from what you can tell? I kinda enjoyed his reactions besides that no homo stuff

 

Well he's actually said "pause" during gg reactions too, so there's that. He still apologizes a lot for fanboying in general, so I think it's more of an extension of that than "no homo." Actually, his cousin (the KML part of JREKML) did actually say "no homo" on Jre's behalf once (lol), but I don't remember Jre himself ever actually saying it. I give him some leeway though, because if he's around attitudes like that, it's no surprise he would be a bit insecure about it. He's definitely gotten WAY more confident about it though.

 

I know there are other kpop reaction youtubers who are actually gay/bi, if that's more your speed. 

 

Have you guys in here ever discussed the concept of confirmation bias?

 

You know, that thing where people look at new "evidence" on a subject that might be challenging but in their minds they are already convinced of something being a certain way so they just interpret the evidence in a way that maintains their current mode of thinking?

 

I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that mind you, I just know it comes up a lot on gay boards I've been a part of before. Where people often get accused to having confirmation bias concerning certain celebrities being gay/straight/lesbian etc.

 

I don't think we've discussed it explicitly, other than homophobes coming in and saying we're just seeing what we want to see. I mean, literally everyone has confirmation bias to some extent, but when we agree that an idol is probably gay or bi, it's usually as a result of eagle-eyed observation and analysis (lol), whereas straight people just assume everyone is straight by default, so I don't really think we're the group to criticize here.   

Edited March 7, 2017 by Aisling

[chiirbii]

Have you guys in here ever discussed the concept of confirmation bias?

 

You know, that thing where people look at new "evidence" on a subject that might be challenging but in their minds they are already convinced of something being a certain way so they just interpret the evidence in a way that maintains their current mode of thinking?

 

I'm not accusing anyone here of doing that mind you, I just know it comes up a lot on gay boards I've been a part of before. Where people often get accused to having confirmation bias concerning certain celebrities being gay/straight/lesbian etc.

It's easy to see it happening, especially in kpop where idols avoid interacting too much with opposite sex idols to avoid scandal, so you get a lot of cool and deep friendships which can read as gay. (And may be gay, who knows.)

 

It goes hand in hand with wish fulfillment and shipping, and some of us just want to see ourselves represented in the media we consume.

 

It's a slippery slope. 

[Livia]

And Kris never existed 

 

Agree except for Kyungsoo, who I've thought of as gay for a while now, and Kai, who pings sometimes but not with anyone specific. Still have no fucking clue with Kai and that bugs the piss out of me. He's the Minho of EXO for me.

 

Suho and Xiumin being straight... pffffft 

 

So much negging in the thread lately, probably by specific fans, if I'm guessing correctly. Don't let it bother you too much. Have an upvote.

Kris who? I don't know her

I'm remnants-of-Exo-M biased and pay a lot of attention to them and every time someone calls Minseok straight, a unicorn dies. Today he got called asexual and like a herd of unicorns died from that and i just couldn't keep my opinion to myself anymore.

[Aisling]

I never commented on this thread but here are my 5 cents:

 

100% gay- JoKwon,Heechul,Key,Sehun,Kwanghee.

 

100% straight- all of 2PM except Wooyoung,Lee Joon,Shownu,Seungri.

 

Everybody else fall in between tbh.

 

Lee Joon has god-tier receipts lol. Just search the thread.

[CALICO CAT]

The only groups I know well enough to analyze are BTS, and EXO, so I'm going to focus on them for now. I could be way off base. Please bear with me lmao. 

 

Straight: 

 

Rap Monster - Ally. Very clearly attracted to women. Comfortable enough with his sexuality that he's never had a 'no homo' moment. His interactions with his members and other guys have always seemed very friendly and brotherly to me. 

 

V - For years I thought he was gay, or at the very least bi, but sifting through everything now, I think he's probably straight. I can't really describe it any better than he's a straight boy with a fascination for cute things. Members, animals, babies, etc. The vkook ship used to ping me like nothing had ever pinged me before, but looking back on it, I think he just saw Jungkook like the shy baby maknae, and he was very nurturing towards him because of that. I feel crazy for typing this because I used to think he was 100% without a shadow of a doubt, gay, but I guess I've changed my mind ... for now. 

 

Jin - Straighter than an arrow. Perhaps the straightest member in his group. 

 

Suho - See above. 

 

Chanyeol - Ally. Is in love with every YG female ever to exist. 

 

Chen - Very traditionally straight. And I think he has a girlfriend. 

 

Lay - His brief 'no homo' moment sealed him as straight for me. But he also kissed Sehun on the lips during that one Chinese variety show way back when, so he's probably more comfortable with his sexuality than people think. 

 

Xiumin - To be honest, I feel like he might be asexual. He kinda just bounces around and does whatever, doesn't really show any sort of emotion or attraction towards either men or women. But if I had to choose, I'd say he's probably straight. 

 

Bi: 

 

Jungkook - To me he's more bicurious. It's going to take a couple more years before I can get a proper read on him. I am leaning more towards straight, though. If he is straight, he's very comfortable and open with men regardless. It could be the cute maknae side of him, or it could be his curiosity poking through. It's still too soon to tell. The way he was watching the Seventeen and GFRIEND stage at the MAMA's this year, for me that kind of sealed his attraction towards women. The smirk, the posture. He was clowning them in his head, but also lowkey wishing he could replace Mingyu in that one section lmao.  

 

Suga - Those Cypher Pt. 3 lyrics say it all, no? As you know my voice will turn you on; Whether it's guy or girl, my tongue will make you come. Beyond that, he's very obviously and fiercely attracted to Park Jimin. No one will ever convince me otherwise lmao. 

 

Kai - We definitely know now that he's interested in women, and I feel like even if he ignores it, he has shown attraction for men, as well. He seems very comfortable with his bisexuality. Not only attracted to men and women, but also willing to pursue a romantic relationship with either or and everyone who falls in between. 

 

 

Gay: 

 

Jimin - I can't think of any specific moments. 

 

J-Hope - To me he's gay ... and probably forever in the closet. I can't describe it any better than that. 

 

D.O - This one doesn't really need explaining ... but yeah, just by the way he interacts with his members and what not, it makes sense. Oh and this could just be some bullshit, but Edward Avila (an SK-based beauty YouTuber) knows someone at SM who is really close to D.O. A staff member, not an idol. I'm not saying that just because Edward's gay that all his friends and his friends' friends are gay, too, but he seemed really hush hush in the video where it was mentioned, which is very uncharacteristic of him. Something about it reallllllly pinged me. You can also throw in any and every Kai and D.O interaction since the dawn of time lmao. D.O has always had a soft spot for him. Whether it's friendship or a crush, it's blatantly clear that he feels some type of special way for Kai. 

 

Sehun - He seems very open and comfortable with his sexuality. Sometimes I wonder if he's just a straight ally, but then I catch moments of him in random videos and it all just falls back into place again. To me he's a no brainer. Also HunHan. 

 

Hunhan, really? 

 

I partly agree but i think some of these opinions are too based on popular otps like yoonmin, taekook or kaisoo, i'd be careful with that. Interactions might help to figure somewhat out, but they're still individuals.

 

On that note, Suga is a real tsundere lol i think he likes to appear unaffacted but he seems to care a lot, specially about people who are probably more clueless and that dont have the upper hand wich is probably why he seemed to help Jimin a lot when he became a trainee. Besides that, i dont see any fierce attraction besides people shipping them because they like the dynamic tbh 

Edited March 7, 2017 by You Never Walk Alone

[swimgood]

 

 

But tbh I once said that I'd sooner believe yoongi was straight than jimin. Would you mind elaborating on jimin not being into guys at all?

 

sorry i didn't see this! orz

 

the thing with jimin is that, like you said, i feel like he's very savvy about fanservice and knowing how to play it up. i guess for that reason i kind of shrug off most of what he does that people consider questionable—for example, i can't imagine him and taehyung as anything more than best bros, and when it comes to jungkook it seems to me as playing up what he knows people want to see. like in the most recent run bts episode, where he comes onto jungkook and blatantly flirts with him, or in that fanmeet video where he "kissed" jungkook's neck (to me it looked more like he kissed his own hand but i could be wrong), those come off to me as very pandered to the audience. and there's nothing wrote with that, literally all idols do it! but i feel like he has a very cultivated image of himself around this kind of behaviour that doesn't really seem to me as indicating any real attraction

[mikiangel]

Lee Joon has god-tier receipts lol. Just search the thread.

Receipts for what? Being straight lol? If your talking about his sex scenes- already saw that .

[XIUDEAN]

It's easy to see it happening, especially in kpop where idols avoid interacting too much with opposite sex idols to avoid scandal, so you get a lot of cool and deep friendships which can read as gay. (And may be gay, who knows.)

 

It goes hand in hand with wish fulfillment and shipping, and some of us just want to see ourselves represented in the media we consume.

 

It's a slippery slope.

Ironically I think I see more confirmation bias from rabid fans who ship their biases than most gay thread users here tbh lol. So many fans see any little interaction between their biases as "proof" of their OTP when in reality the proof is usually quite weak and it's just their wishful thinking doing most of the work.

 

I agree with you about us gays wanting representation, and maybe I'm being delusional here but it seems like most of the time we get things right compared to general otp shippers though lol.

 

I've seen many closeted American actors who were correctly suspected of being gay (by the gays of course) long before they would eventually come out years later. I truly do think we have a knack for picking up on other people we think might be gay (its not always right but still... majority of the time we get it right)

 

 

 

Sent from my K011 using OneHallyu mobile app

Edited March 7, 2017 by XIUDΞΔN 🌓

[miwa201]

 

 

 

sorry i didn't see this! orz

 

the thing with jimin is that, like you said, i feel like he's very savvy about fanservice and knowing how to play it up. i guess for that reason i kind of shrug off most of what he does that people consider questionable—for example, i can't imagine him and taehyung as anything more than best bros, and when it comes to jungkook it seems to me as playing up what he knows people want to see. like in the most recent run bts episode, where he comes onto jungkook and blatantly flirts with him, or in that fanmeet video where he "kissed" jungkook's neck (to me it looked more like he kissed his own hand but i could be wrong), those come off to me as very pandered to the audience. and there's nothing wrote with that, literally all idols do it! but i feel like he has a very cultivated image of himself around this kind of behaviour that doesn't really seem to me as indicating any real attraction

Oh yeah, I completely agree in terms of jimin being savvy. I always thought he was born to be an idol because he's so good at things like fan service and appealing to fans (taehyung too) which I wouldn't say for yoongi, namjoon or even jungkook. Still I do think he's attracted to men, but who knows.

[bottomluhan]

 

 

Suga - Those Cypher Pt. 3 lyrics say it all, no? As you know my voice will turn you on; Whether it's guy or girl, my tongue will make you come. Beyond that, he's very obviously and fiercely attracted to Park Jimin. No one will ever convince me otherwise lmao. 

 

 

 

 

elaborate pls i'm yoonmin trash i would love to know more what makes you think that, i think they're very close and there was possible attraction at one point but i'd love to see some moments that make you think so

 

[Zamo]

the instagram guy seemed to me as a little more than platonic, especially with this discussion during the same time period

 

 

 

and then i remember there being rumours in k-fandom about him having another boyfriend recently? it was briefly mentioned here in february. no explicit confirmation of course, but interesting enough. either way, i wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to have a boyfriend, in the past or currently

I see... I remember people posting in this thread about the k-fandom rumours, but they never posted where they found it so I was a bit skeptical.

[Babysoul's Gf]

Does anyone have any proof about that guy being Suho's boyfriend? Idt Suho's straight, but I'm not sure the instagram dude was his boyfriend either.

In the tags of one of the pictures together, the guy said something like '4 years together'. Around that time, Baekhyun talked about Suho's suspicious phone convos on a show, saying how he thought he got a gf because he was always on the phone, but he overheard a convo and realised it was a man talking to suho. Oh yeah also I saw a pic of them that someone else had taken and they were pretty much sat on top of eachother, being all cuddly. If Suho had a bf which was suggested in the exo interview, it is likely that it was Donghwan, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was someone else.

 

On another note, can anyone find Donghwan's insta anymore?? A week ago I tried to look for it but he seems to have either deleted or changed his username :(

Edited March 7, 2017 by Babysoul's Gf

[Zamo]

In the tags of one of the pictures together, the guy said something like '4 years together'. Around that time, Baekhyun grassed up Suho on a show, saying how he thought he got a gf because he was always on the phone, but he overheard a convo and realised it was a man talking to suho. Oh yeah also I saw a pic of them that someone else had taken and they were pretty much sat on top of eachother, being all cuddly. If Suho had a bf which was suggested in the exo interview, it is likely that it was Donghwan.

On another note, can anyone find Donghwan's insta anymore?? A week ago I tried to look for it but he seems to have either deleted or changed his username :(

Do you have that picture where they are being cuddly? It's ok if you don't, I'm just curious.

But yeah, I've always suspected Suho, but I think he's attracted to women too. Maybe he's one of those people who dgaf.