Which male idols do you think are gay?

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5 hours ago, singularstigma said:

Has anybody got some receipts for Super Junior’s Siwon, I (and many others it seems) believe he’s gay but I just want to see more reasons why to back this up. 

 

Please take this for a grain of salt only.

I know many, many, many of the skinship between male are due to Korean culture and fanservice, but Siwon is actually over the top for all and seem to be wholeheartedly enjoy it. Siwon is one of the type who really ping everyone, but no strong receipt - not because lack thereof, but because he is consisently all over every male. Siwon does not have an official "ship" in Suju, but he is, or was at least, obsessed with Kyuhyun.

The whole thing is even more bizarre because he is indeed raised as a church boy and really followed the strict and outdated rule at some point.To be honest, and I apologize if this offend any one, Siwon controversy is very similar to an example of internalized homophobia. 

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 Eunhyuk was on a live stream with Heechul for a game promotion two days ago and he confirmed he had moved back to the dorm to stay with Kyuhyun. EH has a very nice apartment in Trimage and KH, as far as I remember, has a whole building somewhere else. It is cute but intimate on a whole new level that they choose to stay together again, in the same dorm they had been staying together for years (after Sungmin got engaged, these 2 are the last to stay in that dorm)

I always think of KH as not having any strong receipts (I still do). But these two surprisingly have the most "homo but no homo" stories of all the years they live together, from something innocent like going to theme park just the 2 of them, to telling on radio that they never wear clothes at dorm, really make me wonder if they at one point did they experiment/ hook up?

Also, Kyuhyun (together with Kai and Taemin), are the idols who officially had news speculating/implying them dating guys. On this topic, i am surprise to see these types of news a few years ago but nowadays it is very rare - not sure if it is a good or bad thing. On one hand, more privacy for idols (and ethical) on the other hand, it seems to be more a taboo topic - like homosexual dont exist.

Disclaimer: sorry if I sound like a shipper. I promise I am not. I dont think we will ever have enough evidence from social media , variety, and news to conclude two people are together, unless to the extreme of buying house, furniture, raising a dog together like Tony and Jaeduk

Edited January 9, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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18 hours ago, singularstigma said:

It honestly baffles me how much Suho escapes everyone’s radar when it comes to EXO. Outside this thread it’s almost unanimous that he’s the absolute het. It’s quite funny. Jongdae and Yixing stand out as the straight guys, definitely not Junmyeon. Aside from the whole Donghwan thing, some moments that really cemented it for me was when he without any encouragement interpreted that storyline as being gay while the other members were making different assumptions. Oh and Shinji and Kaworu lol.

I think it has more to do with the numerous hetero ships he has with girl group.

I don't really follow him or most girl groups but even so, I have seen so many people speculating him dating members of Red Velvet (notably Irene), Twice (notably Sana),   Black Pink (Jisoo). I know male idols were speculated with girl group members all the time, but the majority is quickly deemed to be fabricated or stirred up by a small number of fans. But for Suho case, people seem to be so adamant about it. Maybe he seems to be the gentleman and it fits the narrative of a typical korean drama that fans fancy? 

To me, he always seem to have no interest in girls. 

Not to be that person but the hetero ships in 3rd gen sometimes start from the most trivial thing like one second look on stage. By these standards, all the 2nd boy and girl group in 2nd gen should be married by now.

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Okay don't get this wrong but if you guys gonna attach a lot of high resolution pics, can you please put it in spoiler tag. 

Some users (including me) sometimes view thread on phones and/or with slow internet, so it is quite frustrating, especially with pictures that many don't relate to and don't link directly to the topic at hand.

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3 minutes ago, Thatoneuser said:

Chen getting married is a problem, but for different reasons. It's a shotgun wedding and announced suddenly. Also his now wife is pregnant before marriage. That's the issue.

Also a celebrity being in a gay relationship, no we're not that far along yet. Trust me I really really wish we would be but it's not the reality. 

Agree for both point.

I think even for openly gay one like Hong Seok Cheon and Holland, they are still reluctant to actually publicize personal relationship. Sure HSC flirt with male and all on variety (which I still think it does help to normalise homosexual to the public), but it has been years and the public still dont accept him beyond the humor of variety.

And I get the feelings comedian and variety personality can afford more scrutiny from the public. Actors and idols will have a harder time career wise. I guess until we are moving towards that date, but definitely still far.

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This clip is from the Ellen Show on her staff coming out, it is not exactly relevant , so I will put it the link and my thought in spoiler tag.  

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hOwaP3GHQM 

I think it captures perfectly a lot of emotional burden of people when they want to come out.

It hits home when Lauren - one of the staff - admit she only came out to her parents at 36 years old. And she has lived and worked in LA, had a gay boss, from 27. The common thing in all the people in this clip is not the fear from the public, it is the fear of being rejected by your own family. You want to be a perfect kid in the eyes of your parents, no matter how old you are, and we are still in the world which being anything but straight is imperfect.

That gets me thinking, we have been talking about public and career for idols, but one of the most challenging is still within the family. Don't get me wrong, you can still be the nicest parents but not entirely accepting your kid being gay. Culture and the social  norm have that power on people.

For people like Tony, Kim Jong Kook (maybe agree to disagree here but I do think they are not straight) - having a national show where the mother usually joke about trying to find them a "wife" for them is kind of sad. I always think of Tony as bisexual - but regardless, him living together, raising a dog together, having a family picture together with a man should a strong indicator to ... not playing the matchmaking anymore. I mean, if a man and a woman are doing that, no way would people refer them as being single and try to set them up.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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1 hour ago, Namie-Knowles said:

The constant bringing up of Heechul and Momo over and over and over.

There are so many people to talk about besides Heechul for the 100th time y'all. It happened. He's dating Momo who cares?

To be fair, this thread has been going in a circle, and is not the same one it used to be anymore. I do not think anyone is at fault - OH was down for so long and many have left, not much new people join in.

I love to see new posts and new analysis, but the post have almost exclusively about BTS or Heechul lately. Don't get me wrong, I think it is perfectly normal for fans to want to discuss their fave, since they don't follow other groups that closely (even I most discuss either Suju or EXO). But we only have a few users here discussing things, at one point it becomes more of group chat between few fans, and other times it feels like a shipping thread.

It was the same before, but we had more users and more fans' diversity, topics and speculation got refresh after a few pages. And the type of agree-to-disagree (like Heechul case) got buried quite quick. Well, nothing we can do now.

About Stray Kids, I am outside the loop, but I think Jisung and Minho got a decent shipping fan base based on their chemistry? Normally, I don't like shipping culture but I do believe those that have VERY GOOD romantic chemistry with male are less likely to be completely straight. Outside the normal shipping, Felix gives me quite a vibe.

With Sechskies return, I recently thought - how many of the first gen idols are still single, not because they have not found the right lady, but because the society is not ready for them having a boyfriend? Or worse, how many actually marry or enter a hetero-relationship to go how the society wants?

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42 minutes ago, Josaline said:

Why people get so upset about talking about Heechul or BTS members? I mean, when NCT members discuss pages and pages and pages here, we're not asking you why y'all discuss them over and over again here, right? A little respect for other users, please. Also, please note that there are no more users left behind and we should allow whatever currently active users want to discuss.^^

I can understand the sentiment and I said the same thing in my post regarding this topic.

But please do understand respect should go both ways. If we look at the past few pages, there are so many gifs, pics, that are not entirely relevant to the topics - I missed out a few posts from other users because they are hidden behind so many BTS pic when I scroll down. Besides, some posts are just flatting out discussing BTS and nothing about LGBT speculation.

Plus, we should not quote WITHOUT removing the pictures inside the quote first. I am not sure it is the rule in the forum here, but it is seriously frustrating to see the same pics three or four times.

Of course it is not exclusive to BTS.

P.S: On NCT topics, they have 21 members. Plus people do call other users out for using the same analysis repeatedly. At least the last time I rmb.

P.P.S: thought about Ha Sungwoon ? My friend just told me he think Sungwoon and Daehwi are the gay ones in Wanna One, Daehwi we all have some clues, but I just didnt see much in HSW except for a few feminine behaviour, which is misleading to begin with.

Edited January 30, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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1 hour ago, Gerimolda said:

I remember when I had a convo with someone here about Hyukjae and his friend/boyfriend Yoonjun. They told me that they can't be in a relationship because they are always surrounded by friends in their pictures. And not just the two of them alone. 

So I wanna offer a comparison. Not just with Eunhyuk/Yoonjun but it also can be applied to much more idols.

 

 

It was me you had a talk to. And NO, I did not say they can't be in a relationship because they have been surrounded by friend. I even said it was a possibility. But it has the same possibility as Eunhyuk dating pretty much every of his non-celeb and celeb male friends - since they all:

1. Travel together 2. Having cheese captions at one point 3. Having numerous couple shoes.

Why I am having issues with this?  I am a bit baffled why this topic has arised so many times using the exact same picture of the exact same trip , (they did not have any other trips), and the captions who made by this one guy. He has thousands of trips before and after that with other friends.

Plus there are so, so many non-idol unrelated pics you have brought up to convince people he has been dating his friend, it really dilutes the topic. The same happens to Heechul-Gunhee thing. Speculate all we want, but why use an example out of no where to insist on something and sorry if I snap, but please don't twist my previous reply because you want to bring this topic back from the death again. 

Finally, I have been holding this out and not reply to the last time you did this - there are so many invasive fans bothering Eunhyuk friends (yes, plural), to the point they need to close down the IG accounts. There are like, a few elfs who were homophobic and thousands other elfs who were invasive, but the story of him closing his accounts MONTHS after the trip needs to be twisted to: "he close the account to avoid homophobia" etc.

The same is with Gunhee - Gob forbid Heechul with anyone else, except Gunhee, because their posts on IG. There is a very thin line between speculating and shipping. And no, just because I reject the idea of them definitely dating (Gunhee-Heechul, Eunhyuk-his friend) does not mean I think they are straight, or they "can't be together".

P.S: I know the pattern of this convo, I already snapped and would not reply anything else. 

Also I don't want to double post so sorry for squeezing this in, I did agree with Josaline here. As I said, the whole thing about complaining on trash posts is not and should not be exclusive to BTS, plus don't get me wrong, I have no problem with discussing gender restriction etc. If anything, it is far more better than the general posts.

5 hours ago, Josaline said:

I know how many members the group has, and I also understand why there is so much speculation. But one side always complains when we talking about BTS members, while the other side says almost nothing. Do you see the difference? I also think that discussing gender restrictions, femininity, and prejudices in society is something related to this thread. For me, this is more interesting for us than discussing the which members have love interest for each other.

But I fully agree with you about the part I highlight.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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I

From what i've seen some people think he's not straight because he's a member of the padding squad (whose leader is "gay king" Taemin) and Jimin and him are a popular ship apparently. But i'm quite surprised your friend putted him with Daehwi as the non straight members of Wanna One because imo Jihoon has much stronger evidence of not being straight than Sungwoon. 

I see. Yeah Daehwi, followed by Jihoon are the only two I can speculate with above 50% certainty. The rest, even those effeminate ones like Guanlin and Jinyoung, still feels like a blur to me.

A few updates on Korea: Lose - a student got punished for spreading awareness Win - the court sides with said student.

If you guys are interested the same account does quite a good job in covering news (and quite frequent on LGBT) in Korea, without over or under reporting the situation

 

 

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1 hour ago, singularstigma said:

Any opinions on Shinhwa members? I think it’s interesting to note that if any of them are lgbt they are in their 40s now and none have came out after having been in the industry for such a long period of time, not to mention being long past their military service as well.

Older generation faces more obstacles from their family to have a traditional hetero marriage. Plus their parents may be at the age that may not fare well with the shock. If anything, I think they are less likely to comeout after 40.

That being said, Shinhwa seems to be not-gay group. Bisexual then I dont know, but I cant think of anyone as gay. Eric is married, Jun Jin, Minwoo and Andy all have relationships with female celeb and I honestly dont think any of those was for bearding at all. As far as I know, there is no dating news confirmed for the other two, but neither really pings me.

 I need to add - it is astounding to see the number of unmarried male idols/singers over 40. Of course it may simply be that they dont want to settle down, but by law of the large number there may be many who is still in the closet. 

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:34 AM, skelten said:

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I cannot unsee this. No way that pose is done innocently and unintentionally.

This is an example of a rather unintentional wrong position for TV: 

On the topic of masculinity and position - I think many people are sensitive to the stereotype of homosexuality for a good reason. But I usually don't see the problem of drawing correlation between certain personality trait and homosexual tendency, as long as you are not being offensive.  

I cannot speak for all LGBT person out there, I personally prefer normalised discussion on LGBT rather than avoiding the topic for the sake of political incorrectness. Like, the people who prefer to be bottom tends to have a softer characteristics, more fashionable etc. Of course, that is a mere correlation and not causality, so a guy who prefers bottom can be extremely masculine and vice versa.

But I often see Twitter stans preaching people not to assume a guy is a bottom etc, I mean, it is not like anything is wrong but being a bottom???

The same for thinking a guy can be gay for having a feminine characteristic. For example, Wanda Sykes is LGBT herself and she has no problem revealing that she thinks Liberace is gay for his flamboyant personality.

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Edited February 3, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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9 hours ago, jung jaehyun's boyfriend said:

what do yall think about kpop idols/groups (and other celebrities) randomly being pro-gay despite never having otherwise shown support for the community? im honestly not thinking of any group in particular, but just in general, its just something ive noticed recently (ive been a kpop fan for a while now).

as a gay man i do appreciate it and id also love if my favs did it but i feel like im also old enough now to tell when its just pandering to the gay community for coin. like, i feel like idols know that a large portion of their international fanbases (specifically, their american fans) are members of the LGBTQIA2+ community or allies. and showing pro-gay sentiments has become "trendy". sometimes, their support just doesnt seem genuine and seems fake/forced.

what do u guys think?

The social cost of being an ally is decreasing in recent time, so the increasing support from idols reflects that. Even if it is fake to gain the so-called progressive social image benefit, I rather not know. Luckily, there is no way I could tell for sure, so ignorance is bliss.

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TOP does have many dating news confirmed and unconfirmed, all of which with female. Some news are nasty enough for it NOT to be bearding.

He does not seem to have any ambiguous moments with male (minus all typical Korean male skinship).

About the vibes and speech, I didnt see much so I dont really think he s gay or even bi. But it s just personal opinion.

That being said, I am pretty sure all Big Bang mems have had abundant of receipts at some points in this thread

P.S: Please not another fan war here.

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39 minutes ago, chargerdine said:

I mean Lucas is pretty masculine presenting and I think he’s gay tbh so there’s another one lol

Kim Jong Kook can be very masculine sometimes and I have never think of him being anything but gay. Siwon is another one. And by masculine I mean in Korean standard, that minus all the handholding hugging cuddling is normal between male friends.

In non-celeb type, so, so many guys who are into body building, heavy gym training are gay. It is just harder to discuss a masculine guy if they show no apparent interest in another male

Edit:

Anyone has actual receipt on Kyungsoo - just curious because dude is so quiet and private. His actors celeb circle - Kwangsoo, SJK, Si Hwan ... - seem to be straight though, but it may not mean anything

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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15 hours ago, burntgucci said:

Putting everything under a spoiler as it could get kinda long:

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Although I agree that most of his actor friends don't seem to be gay, I side-eye both Jo Insung and Kim Woobin. Jo Insung and Kyungsoo are especially close (Kyungsoo once said that Jo Insung opened the door to his heart), and Woobin seems to like flirting with Kyungsoo:

 

 

I don't know what it is about Kyungsoo, but men are just drawn to him like a moth to a flame lol, he's even very popular in the military.

  

When he was younger, he was also friends with other idols thought to be not straight, like Key, Ryeowook, Amber, Jo Kwon, and Ravi from VIXX. I was actually going through this Korean translator's old tweets recently and in 2014 she tweeted about Kyungsoo mostly hanging out with "gay sunbaes".  Also relating to Ryeowook is the fact that in 2013 some Kfans even believed that Kyungsoo and Ryeowook had started dating. 

Kyungsoo has also supported LGBT media in the past, as he's seen the lesbian film The Handmaiden with Sehun, the play "Priscilla" about a drag queen (played by Jo Kwon) with Suho, and also the musical "Hedwig", which has a transgender main character. Equality is also a big thing for him, as he said either in 2017 or 2018 that if he was king of a country, the main thing he would do is make sure that everyone lived equally.

There's also this gifset, where he said it "wouldn't be so bad" if he dated Suho:

 

I also think all the stuff with his hairstylist in 2013 is VERY interesting (wrapping his arms around him and holding hands with him is especially noteworthy as Kyungsoo hated skinship during this time period):

But for me his most noteworthy receipt is actually him and Chanyeol's cover of "Nothing On You" by Bruno Mars:

At 0:19 he sings "boy I'm trying" even though the original lyric of the song is "girl I'm trying". Honestly I don't see how people can hetsplain this like...there really is no heterosexual explanation for why he sang boy instead of girl. I also can't imagine 2013 homophobic Chanyeol letting "boy I'm trying" slide in rehearsals because even though neither of them spoke English at this point, surely he would have recognised that it's a different word but I digress. It's a weird moment to me overall, and I don't know if Kyungsoo maybe wanted to have a moment of rebellion or something.

My personal opinion is that Kyungsoo is gay or bisexual and honestly I'm pretty sure of this nowadays. Him and Jongin both used to be enigmas for me but one day something just clicked for me when I thought about Kyungsoo (Jongin is still a mystery to me though lol). Honestly, I think that Kyungsoo actually was a lot more outwardly gay in the earlier years but after EXO rose to fame he became very private and it's unlikely now that we'll see any more hints towards his sexuality or who he dates (man or woman). Bearing in mind that he hates the idol life with a passion and seriously values his privacy, and has flat out said that the only reason he hasn't quit being an idol yet is because of how much he loves the EXO members (I think this was on Party People?). So nowadays I just go with my gut feeling which says that Kyungsoo isn't straight, especially looking at some of his earlier receipts.

 

Agree with most of this, maybe except for Kim Woo Bin, his 5 years relationship with Shin Min Ah, makes all his flirting during that period seems to be just a normal brohood (Korean style). 

If anything I can add about Kyungsoo, it is his lack of chemistry of female co-star, even though he is a very promising actors (probably one of the best among idols turn actors). It can be because he does not have that many roles for normal hetero romantic drama/movie, but still, I have noticed there is a huge gap between his comfortable aura with men versus the indifferent attitude towards women. 

(The contrast can be seen from this clip). Don't get me wrong, plenty of gay actors have tremendous chemistry with fellow female actors, so cannot draw a conclusive implication here, but still

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1 hour ago, lurker1823 said:

Let me be the Devil's Advocate.

Sehun is straight because:

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1. There's a rumor surfaced in China that the 1/1 Dispatch couple is Sehun and Lia (Itzy) but because of Chen's announcement and Lia being a rookie debut less than a year ago, SM and JYP agreed to conceal the revelation

2. Never openly shows support the LGBT+ community like Baekhyun, Taeyeon, ... 

3. Never refer to MxM relationship (Suho suggested a gay plot for an MV in a show in 2014, Kyungsoo was okay with being with Suho when asked what he would do if Suho and he loved the same girl)

4. Has always been rumored to be promiscuous a whore

5. Bought a car with tinted glass in 2016/2017 (or sth)

6. Like Heechul, started gay rumors about himself to approach as many girls as possible

7. Liked a girl in high school but didn't tell her or sth

8.  Isn't close with SM supposed gay line (Key, Amber, TY, Ryeowook ...)

9. Every suspicious things he's said is just a part of his image, fan-servicing the international fan community since they're the only ones who'd pick up on those vague stuff. K-entertainment is internationally minded (e.g: NCT or SM since forever, Blackpink's success overseas) so they have to build their idol images in such ways to break into "liberal" markets like the US or Europe 

10. Doesn't have a lot of male fans

11. Is religious 

12. Said about being a father one day in an interview

 

Nearly half of the list is rumor without evidence, the other half is false. A small part, (like religious), maybe true but have nothing to do with being straight.

The rumor you said was started on weibo WAYYYYYY after 1/1, suspiciously close to ITZY comeback, and receive very low attention.

I think after SJK divorce people usually claim "source from China" (which mostly taken from weibo) for everything, even though weibo has thousands of rumor everyday started by either fans or anti fans.

Edit: and idols from your "supposed gay line" list have mentioned "liking a girl in highschool" at some points in their career. It is a very typical variety/interview clique answer.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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Even though there is a possibility of they being just friend, but it is very hard for me to believe two men living with each other for years (7-8 years if I recall correctly), adopting a dog together, hanging picture of them together in the office/living room ... are really "just friends". Especially, these two have no other tie together (not from the same school/town/company etc).

It is kinda sad when everyone asked Jaeduck to "leave" Tony , and how "he will have to get married one day" e.t.c... I know the whole conversation is very  normal for a conservative country, but from my perspectives it is really depressing. I do think Tony relationships in the past were real, and he is bisexual, but isn't his relationship with Jaeduck pretty much a ...marriage by now? 

I mean, if this situation is about a man and woman living together (without confirming their relationships), it is less likely that one of them will get asked "so when are you leaving". Nagging about their status, yes, but never to this extend.

 

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2 hours ago, LostChild said:

Mind you that i don't know much about Tony Ahn and i'm just speaking my thoughts on it but a lot of bisexual men who live in more open-minded countries don't come out because of the biphobia that both gay and straight communities express and most of them (even more so when they're celebs) date men secretly. So it must be worse in a conservative country like South Korea and it seems unlikely that Tony would have choosed to build a long-term relationship with a man if he was bi. Of course, it could be that he's really in love with Jaeduck or doesn't care about the society backlash but if they're indeed a couple, it's simply more likely that he's gay.

I know that it's an upsetting thought to a lot of people (and this post will probably get downvoted like crazy) but it's still a reality that the majority of bisexuals settle down with someone of the opposite sex and we should take it in consideration when speculating about idols.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I am bisexual myself, and I do admit I am "straight" to majority of my friends. And I am not disputing that bisexuals tend to end up in a hetero relationships, but it is more of a necessity/love rather than by choice to avoid homophobia and/or biphobia.

Biphobia and Bi-erasure also involves people who think bisexuals can "choose" to escape the oppression of homosexuality by being in a relationship with an opposite gender. In reality, falling for someone, same sex or not, is not really a thing bisexuals can switch on and off. If they do fall for someone with the same sex, the struggle is exactly the same as gay men in a conservative era/country. Leslie Cheung is a very good example. And he was from a much more conservative era.

In my personal view, if we want to avoid biphobia, don't treat them as the anomaly of LGBT. Because otherwise, noone would be speculated as bisexual, since in this logic, a bisexual would only be interested in women publicly, and someone who expressed their interest in men is just gay. 

In Tony case, he has gone public with at least one celeb girlfriend. But Tony and Jaeduck always say they are just roommates whenever the public ask (like, for real, what else can they say). So it is not like they don't care about the society backlash or officially in a public relationship or anything.

And I am not sure if I come across right in my post, but the post is not even about speculating idols. The post is about how a public show can be subtlety homophobic . Why would you repeatedly ask two guys living together to separate, so that they can "get a wife"? They would not do that to a hetero duo living together - most would just take the hint and assume they are together. Asking one of them to move out when there is a possibility of them being together is just rude.

If one of them actually has a girlfriend, then I understand. But their last confirmed relationship is 7 years ago.

Edit: Still, the whole thought on bisexual topic is just my own experience, I understand this can be very debatable. I also forgot to mention - bisexuals exist on a spectrum. Some bi lean more towards men than woman, vice versa. That makes the whole discussion on how one may end up in a homo/hetero relationship even more complicated.

Edited February 16, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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On 2/18/2020 at 2:02 AM, LostChild said:

Don't worry, i perfectly understand your thoughts in this post and i was absolutely not trying to stop people from speculating about idols who could be bisexuals. I apologize if it seems that i was because it couldn't be far from the truth. And i know that bisexuals who settle down with the opposite sex don't do it because it's convenient or to avoid homophobia. I pointed this out merely because it's a statistical fact which could be useful to explain my point of view.

 

Agreed with all this, in the end, sexuality is not a black and white story, and no possibility should be completely dismissed, as long as the speculation is done respectfully. 

For Tony case, my main reason for speculating him being bisexual/pan is not because of his girlfriend, it is just he seems to be interested in both men and women from his interaction on shows. Still, it may just be a facade, and for all we know, he may just be totally gay or straight. 

17 hours ago, lighterxx said:

In a way, I understand why would they not want transgender soldier, bcs you share showers in army and well, I would be afraid inname of transgender person, rather than worry about other soldiers. HOWEVER, I would put them in reserve so they can still serve going home and bam all problems solved in my view. 

I dont get why tf they would ban anyone not straight tho like? They are just gay or bi, they are not going to attack on males, quit treating gay men like they cant resist you 

On the transgender thing, I actually agree that it would be difficult for the transgender/queer person themselves. Even in a more open community, in normal setting like university, there have been case transgender getting attacked or verbally insulted in public restroom etc. So, I can understand how some institutions may be reluctant. But Korean army policy on hunting down non-het soldier keeps resurfacing every few years or so. No wonder why even the outspoken idols like JoKwon or Key toned down a lot before going to army. 

Spoiler

The same thing, weirdly, exist in football/soccer too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_English_football

 

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To be fair, "want to live happily with my wife and children after I reach 30-40" is a typical answers for both idols and actors. Marriage is an expected and a safe answer for these types of question

Most 2nd gens (even first gen) had said that when they are in their 20. Fast forward 10 years, most are still single, some have a dating news or 2, only a tiny fraction do actually have a wife.

Do we really expect them to answer "Imma get married and live happily ever after with my husband" even if they are gay

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10 hours ago, ga_shina said:

Although Holland did come out, it didn't start a "trend" which is understanding when looking at what happened with Chen. Idols are still fighting the stigma of being in relationships, starting a family while still an idol, sexism, etc... so I doubt most of them are even thinking about possibly coming out. All we can do is support currently out celebrities/open minded and spread acceptance. 

Even for Holland case, he debut as a gay idol. So he did come out, but not in the sense of coming out to his existing fanbase. And he is not under any contractual obligation. It is still a brave thing to do, but frankly, the opportunity cost of coming out is arguably far greater for all other idols that already debut.

One other risk of coming out is the risk of people disregard the true talent of an artist and label them as "the gay one" instead. Being the first openly gay kpop idol was/is Holland brand - it does help him with the attention, but also limit him in many other sense.

Hong Seok Cheon was a great comedian with promising career in multiple entertainment areas before coming out. Now years after the TV ban, "being gay" has become his variety focus of many shows guest. It is sad because from few proper shows he has, his talent goes way beyond that.

I see a few mention coming out and leaving Korea. Leaving a country where you were born and raised is not that easy. It is like a last solution nobody wants to resort to.

P.S:

I cant believe I knew about this just now. Whoever brought in this concept is a legend.

 

 

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On 2/22/2020 at 10:11 AM, Libby21 said:

What do y'all think about SM Entertainment and their ways to cover up any LGBT associated word ( "lesbian" from a video and "gay" from a teaser image ) , although I feel like SM has the most LGBT artists. They must be living in hell seeing how homophobic is the company 

Many of their artists is outspoken supporter of LGBT though: Taeyeon, Heechul, Taemin, Jonghyun, Key, Baekhyun, ... They still receive a lot of promotion and attention. I dont think it is fair to say SM is more homophobic than any other agencies. 

And that clip of Ten and Winwin, so beautifully done, also Eunhyuk VCR, (neither involves fan service or queerbaiting) dont think an homophobic company would allow that.

P.S: censoring LGBT lyrics were due to Korea history of banning songs and music video from broadcasting. The criteria is often vague and fickle, so SM doing that is more of a necessity and precaution than anything.

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8 hours ago, persuasions said:

Not related to idols, there is a debate going on tt and my tl about China closing ao3 due to LGBTQ content regarding some famous actor in Untamed. This is so f**ked up because yes, freedom of speech and all that goes down the drain once again and shipping fics are just a pretext. If they have an issue with pornography and underage fics that is not the way to do so.

These users make great points and the first is a Chinese LGBTQ immigrant that finds it very harmful to LGBTQ people in China that used it to express themselves in writing/reading and who could not do it as easily otherwise. I thought fics on ao3 are written for straight women by straight women but now, I might find good LGBTQ fics written by LGBTQ artists. Do you know anything that actually does not involve real people?

 

Spoiler

AO3 is actually a very decent site for fanfiction - no ad, no compulsory registering, a lot of effort in maintaining the site. And there  are many gems that really depict the true life of a gay/les couple.

There are so many things that are wrong with this whole thing:

-- Fanfiction have been there for ages - the whole 50 shades of grey is literally a fanfic of Twilight. Why the people don't raise such an issue before?

-- Bashing others because they don't like fan arts and fics surrounding "real people" is just weird. They are celebs, actors on top of that. Part of the their job is to sell an image, a role, and imaginary figure to the public. Like shipping, as long as it is not over the top or harmful - I really don't think these actors mind. In this specific case, most of the fan arts I come across are about the two characters in the drama, it is not even about the real person.

 The same rule applies - if you don't do it to straight people, yet throw a tantrum when it is LGBT, it is pure homophobic. All the other reasons are merely excuses.

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by ribbonribbon

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Men in Korea are more intimate with each other than the average level in the world. I am sure some people here can confirm. Henry, being raised overseas, said he thought Suju are all gay because the amount of hugging/skinship they did backstage. 

But some people dont like skinship. Others are not doing it because their groupmate does not like it. And the skinship also decreases with age. So really, we cannot use it to conclude either (1) they are straight and doing it for clout (2) people who dislike skinship are straight (3) they are gay.

Of course fan service is a thing - but really it is not that much if we compare the same group behaviour on stage and in real life.