Which male idols do you think are gay?

[cjbenny]

Um just remembered it now, but MonstaX wonho totally pings.

 

So, I just saw Monsta X a few hours ago and it was amazing! Did the hi-touch with them and Shownu in particular was the sweetest guy ever. I kept an eye out for any suspicious moments but didn't find too many things out of the ordinary, other than some typical fanservice. But I did notice a couple of things. Minhyuk and Jooheon were close. For five or six songs, they were practically attached at the hip, and Minhyuk initiated all their skinship, including a couple of suggestive-like grinding on one song in particular. And regarding Wonho, I managed to get this lovely moment between him and Minhyuk. I only regret not recording earlier because right before this, Minhyuk was backhugging him and squeezing his nipples. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Each time this boy comes up, I make an audible dying goat sound. Don't @ me on how it sounds. Jihoon knows his game too well, I think there is a lot of frustrated Korean/Int fanboys and high schoolers alike that share my sentiment. It's like he acts so damn submissive that I felt like urgh, overpowering him. This makes me have a flashback of that fanboy in the uni/college that adored Jihoon, he was extremely flustered and Jihoon is too (dunno if that's all a facade though). This boy make me sexually frustrated. Sorry to be so brash about this.

I appreciate your honestly lol. Really though, he just has this soft delicate aura around him, and those pair of GIF's express it perfectly. 

[cjbenny]

If you could know the sexuality of just one Kpop idol out of the whole industry, who would you pick? Why?

 

If you could know the sexuality of just one Kpop member from your bias group(s), who would you pick? Why?

Honestly, someone from BTS. Probably Tae or Kookie, then again there's enough evidence that pretty much any of them could be more than just an ally. If any of them identify as LGBT and somehow come out, they are probably the only idols who could weather the shitstorm that would happen due to their international success. Also, knowing would instill a little bit of hope in me that they'd be on the future frontlines for progress on LGBT rights in Korea.

 

And because I'm a shameless Taeyong stan, I would love nothing more than to finally know whether our favorite panicked gay bats for my team.

Edited September 15, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Let's say for the sake of hypothetical that Jungkook was totally gay, zero interest in women. If that ever came to light, do you think his insane popularity would overcome the 'scandal' and homophobia of it? Same with Jimin and Tae - the ones who are most thirsted after, I wonder whether there would be less or more outrage over them than the older members. I guess more. But enough to destroy BTS, or not enough to stop them from sparking a gay revolution and changing loads of people's minds about lgbt matters in Korea?

 

 

I'm gonna go on a slightly philosophical rant here lol. There'd be outrage for sure, from both religious nutjobs, homophobes, and "fans" whose dreams would be crushed that their chances of marrying oppa are nonexistent. But like I said before, BTS is pretty much the only idol group who could survive the maelstrom of having a member come out as LGBT, precisely because of their increasingly dominant international popularity. They'd still have revenue sources to rely on, and support from much of the western world that identifies as gay friendly, as opposed to smaller groups dependent on Asia as their primary source of support. It'd probably be a death sentence for any of those folks.

 

I've long believed that BTS (based on their numerous and increasingly supportive comments on the LGBT community) are going to be on the forefront of the inevitable fight for gay rights in Korea. But God knows they would have a hell of a lot more clout in jumpstarting such a revolution if one of them openly identified as gay or bi. I know many are pessimistic about the progress of gay rights in Korea and throughout Asia, especially considering how India only just recently decriminalized gay sex as an offence. But I'll always point everyone to how staggeringly fast America progressed on gay rights. Just fifteen years ago, gay sex was technically illegal in thirteen states. Fourteen years ago, George Bush president used anti-gay sentiment as a rallying cry to help him win reelection. My home state voted to ban gay marriage in 2008. But then fast forward to 2015, and gay marriage became legal across the land.

 

The more BTS speaks positively about the Korean LGBT community, the likelier other celebs will be vocal about their support. Holland and MRSHLL's mere presence on the scene shows that at least two gay Korean men believe that there is an audience for all of their content. Let's hope that things happen sooner rather than later though, at least for the shunned and disillusioned and frightened LGBT folks still struggling on all parts of the globe. Taiwan and Australia and India's recent ruling is just proof of the dying breed of homophobic bigots, and how youth are eventually paving the way for change. I am both excited and terrified when the day comes that the first real Korean idol of magnitude comes out of the closet, and shakes the foundations of that industry to its core. They will face unimaginable hatred, but I can't help but feel that it would open up the floodgates to so much promise. This is no longer a world where Hong Seok-cheon would be standing alone. I have a feeling and hope that person would have the support of millions to fight back the hate. Anyways, it's a hell of a thing to ponder.

 

[cjbenny]

So I've been watching videos of Red Crew's dancing (with Gangyong, that kid from Hello Counselor I posted about the other day), and in one video, unless it was a mistranslation, another member was talking on the mic and apparently insisted that Gangyong was straight. Like..................I just feel like that says SO much about the state of things in SK right now. 

It really is insane to think about it, so many people in South Korea just don't have a baseline idea on what "gay" is. I'm sure to most of the uninformed, a gay person is a campy rainbow twirling drag queen, or a over exaggerated lisping caricature that's the comic relief in a sitcom. It makes my heart sink every time I think about how many queer people both young and old suffer there in silence each day.

[cjbenny]

It really is a bit depressing to think about LGBT progress in Korea and Asia in general. At least in the US, there were always bastions for LGBT communities. San Francisco and Hollywood and "progressive" parts of the country provided some form of shelter and community to LGBT people for decades. There's no real equivalent of it in the Korean entertainment industry, a place that is no doubt teeming with queer idols/celebrities who are forced to hide in the shadows.

 

Also, to somewhat piggyback on Lady Valtaya's point above on Hyuna and Edawn, it sort of felt to me like a watershed moment, at least in terms of public relationships between two different idols. It has undoubtedly damaged both of their careers but I do think it's important that Hyuna seems so confident if not even defiant this past week regarding their relationship. The Hyuna/Edawn scandal, Holland and MRSHLL's entry into the scene, BTS subtly taking on the almost political mantle of "voice for Korean youth", numerous celebs like IU openly discussing mental health and bullying, Jonghyun's tragic suicide, the countless cases of the #MeToo movement. All of these events are shaping Korean society in the modern age whether it seems noticeable or not. It is exposing archaic mindsets of the bigoted and ignorant, and giving strength to marginalized people who are realizing that they aren't alone in this world. It's humanizing an industry that often feels so detached and cold and robotic.

 

However such progress happens, I'm always someone who tries to remain hopeful. When same-sex marriage was passed here in the states, the elation and pride that I felt was indescribable. And it saddens me to no end that some gay kid in Seoul or Dubai or Nairobi, etc. could might not experience that in their lifetime. We gotta keep fighting though. Progress will happen and things will change for the better, it's an inevitability as more young people start taking control of society. That day can't come soon enough.

[cjbenny]

This. Sometimes I really really dislike the whole "masculine/macho=straight" stereotype. Equally, I also feel disheartened at the idea of feminine guys being shamed or ridiculed for beibg feminine or girly, even in the LGBTQ community. These stereotypes hurt so much, and I find myself sympathized with them all, although tbh my biggest sympathy lies with the feminine guys. Imo you should embrace your feminine/girly self if that's who you are.

I have a straight female friend who actually hated pink and avoided the color because it's girly, and she didn't want to appear "weak" if she has something of that color. She told me years later as adult woman, she feels regret and starts to embrace pink. Because she likes it. And it's not a bad thing, or girly=weak.

equally I have a gay bestfriend who had had hard times in the past because he's girly. Not even gonna lie- at first I thought he's trans. anyone who sees him would've stereotyping him into that category because he's just so girly- from hobbies to behaviors to appearance- that he looks like typical youthful asian guy doesn't help. But alas- no, he's a gay man and proud of it. Does his feminine, girly quality clue people in? Definitely. But is if really that bad? I think what I take offence is the idea that girly is bad, macho manly man is good. Girly man equal "gay" so it's bad, macho equal straight so it's good.

I mentioned it here before, the bravest person I ever knew was a super feminine, makeup wearing, dress wearing guy in high school who gave no shit about what others thought about him. We weren't friends or anything, I just remember him because I was also queer teen who never possessed an ounce of the confidence that guy did. I grew up in a ghetto school, filled with a good number of close-minded wannabe punks who would constantly tease and insult him. He flirted with them. Brushed off their jokes with some snappy comeback. Most important lesson I took from it years later is that he was being true to himself. And anyone (as you mentioned those even within the LGBT community) who sees people like him as lesser or annoying really need to reevaluate their views on how backwards that line of thinking is.

[cjbenny]

I'm terribly sorry to bring the mood down, but future has never been so bleak.  The fact that 55% just elected him makes my heart sink.  All of this in the country with the biggest LGBT pride of the world. 

 

Under these news suddenly everything else seems small. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/27/dispatch-sao-paulo-jair-bolsonaro-victory-lgbt-community-fear

Forgive me guys for this long post. I mean, it is depressing. It's clear that these past two years have shown the terrible rise of nationalism and perhaps something more insidious about our societies. Bigots and homophobes and misogynists are emboldened now, because they have leaders/demagogues who amplify and validate their hatred.

 

For every bit of news or progress, it feels like we are taking two steps back as human beings. We have the #MeToo movement raging all around us, yet the US elected a president that treats women like trophies and sexual objects and puts forward a man accused of rape to the Supreme Court. We go forward with something as momentous as Obergefell v. Hodges, yet have an administration that is all but willing to erase any type of protections for the LGBT community, especially transgendered individuals. We have countries like Australia, Taiwan, and India progressing on LGBT rights, yet see places like Brazil and the Philippines giving rise to detestable men who are filled with the same toxic hatred that elevated Trump to where he is now. Hatred that these men are more than eager to spread across their country. And this last week has been a sobering and tragic week for Americans with the recent shootings and assassination attempts, because it seems like hatred is more prevalent than ever, and those with unstable minds are more than willing to act on it with deadly consequences. 

 

And yet, all we can do is to keep fighting. No matter the obstacles, no matter the vitriol and animosity that seem to dominate our lives, we cannot give in to those who seek to erase us. To diminish our joy and rights, to spread their plague-like beliefs and inhumanity amongst the populace.

 

As depressing as Bolsonaro's election is, I feel like I have to uplift the mood with one bittersweet news story. That after little over two decades since his death, Matthew Shepard has finally been buried. Twenty years ago, I was a kid struggling with my own sexual identity, yet here was was this twenty-one year old who was tortured and beaten to death because he was gay. I still remember seeing news stories about protesters at his original funeral in 1998, the fact that his dad had to wear a bulletproof vest for protection because of them. And yet two days ago, there weren't any protestors, just thousands of mourners ready to put this boy to rest.

 

I can't see the future, no one can. Progress for the weak and disenfranchised is slow, but it continuously marches forward as long as there are those willing to fight. LGBT rights in America (and around the world) didn't happen on its own. It was decades of work from millions of people, activists and ordinary folks alike, all fighting to let their voice be heard. It was done through politics and optics and legislation. It happened because of catalysts like the Stonewall riots and Matthew Shepard's murder, snapshots that captured the rage and agony we felt. As if our family had been attacked.

 

If there's anything I'm hopeful for, it's the fact that I know eventually, South Korea and countless other nations' LGBT citizens will suffer yet survive through their hardships. And they will reach points like we did when gay marriage became law. With how interconnected the world is now, it gives me a certain sense of relief that a gay kid will realize that they aren't alone in this world. God, sorry this became an essay but I feel like I needed to vent and release all the pent up rage inside me that's been building up since Trump's election. We cannot let men like him win. No matter what.

Edited October 29, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Hi guys, I just received an update from Solidarity for LGBT Human Rights of Korea, the group/organization that runs the Rainbow Teen Safe Space, a program aimed to providing shelter and counseling to LGBTQ youths in South Korea. They are still taking donations if anyone has the means to give a little. Reading this update warmed my heart, because while these kids should be enjoying their lives and exploring who they are, they are ignored and shunned by the society and government of their home country. I'm so glad that they are at least getting some support from this program.

 

15th Aug, DDingDong moved to a new building. So we could make more spaces for LGBTQ+ youths. Now we have two private counseling rooms and they are bigger than the small one in the office we used to be. And there are more such as a brand new shower room and a cozy common room has comfort couches.

 

This year there were many local queer pride festivals. Like last year, DDingDong went to those cities as often as possible. We set booth in Gwangju and Busan Queer Culture Festival in Sep and Oct. And we held Moving DDingDong Lunch(Totobob) in each city. So we could meet many LGBTQ+ youths who live in those cities.

 

We counseled 20 LGBTQ youths in Jul, 17 in Aug and 21 in Sep. And we support LGBTQ youths in crisis providing food, daily necessities, medical services, counselling and so on.

 

We hosted DDingDong Lunch(Totobob) total 4 times for this three month including Moving DDingDong Lunch in Gwangju and Busan.

 

We continued outreach program, DDingDong Pocha(Korean Style Bar), it is held every first Saturday night of every month. We share some food and snack. And they can play some board games and if they want they can get a counselling. And we gave many condoms, lubricants, sanitary pads, lip balms, wet wipes, socks, underwears, vitamins and so on.

 

 

[cjbenny]

 

 

So this is off topic but I do want to bring up Gim Cheolsoo again. He's a youtuber who has already been discussed here from a previous video where he was interviewing a gay Korean guy named Jangho who we found out later was actually his boyfriend. His videos give us an artistic and uplifting view on homosexuality in Korea. He usually features LGBT identifying Koreans in a lot of his videos, either interviewing them or just hanging out as friends.

 

In all our endless yet fun speculation on potentially gay idols, where we try to read minute details and gestures/body language, it's incredibly refreshing to see a real openly gay Korean couple in a stable relationship. There's no flashy kissing or intimacy, no over the top cuddling. Just two guys who are clearly in love, which you can see in the way they talk and look at each other.

 

For some reason, this specific video hit me hard. Cheolsoo is interviewing a young gay guy at the end, and he gives a touching little speech (on his birthday no less!) directed towards other LGBT or queer identifying friends. And I just want to quote him directly because his words are so simple yet powerful.

 

"But I hope you guys cheer up, it's not your fault. It's just the the world that you were born is a little bit hard to live. I hope you guys endure."

 

These are the kind of people that pave the way for gay rights whether they realize or not. By being out and open in a society that is still outright hostile to their existence, they are already challenging the status quo, and that's pretty damn amazing.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

I love his videos they always relax me and calm my anxiety down. He also gives great insight about gay rights in Korea. So does the video now have eng sub? I must watch now if it does.

Yup! There are now English subtitles in the closed caption option.

[cjbenny]

The more I see and hear about Taeyong the more I like him. He sounds really gay to me.

 

I will support him either way, but I am definitely interested in seeing more of him. He's so beautiful it's ridiculous.

 

He reminds me so much of Ren and Sungjong that it's crazy.

Seriously, regardless of how shallow it sounds, I agree on his beauty. His jawline and big eyes really do make him look as many people mention, like a manga character. But I especially fell for his charisma in front of a camera. It's not enough to call him photogenic, he kinda just draws your eyes no matter what he's doing. He's also so comfortable and in command of how he presents himself, that it seems amazing how different he is when he's not performing. A quiet, shy, and easily flustered guy that I would argue, has given us plenty of evidence to show that he ain't fully straight.

[cjbenny]

Speaking of Taeyong, I know these have been posted before but I'm bringing them back just for posterity ;)

[cjbenny]

It's gaining traction on a lot of sites that cover kpop, and I'm seeing the crazy fans starting to flood in, claiming that everyone is just hating on them, and that the haters don't understand that it was just a game. Sigh.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

[cjbenny]

It just makes me sad to think how often this happens to countless other idols. And regarding males, it's even harder for them to be taken seriously. Even here in America, I'm sure there are so many cases where males who are harassed don't want to tell others because of how they think they'll be judged.

 

And as a Filipino American, I can at least speak in terms of the Asian men in my sphere of life, who value machismo and see anything close to femininity in a guy as weakness. For years it made me hesitant to even suggest to them that I was gay because I felt like I would be lesser in their eyes because of it.

 

And for a male kpop idol who is Chinese (in a company with a less than stellar record on Chinese idols), do some folks here really believe that he'd be open to talk about any feelings of harassment and not feel like he would be ignored or shunned by SM? Regardless of their personal relationships, regardless of what we don't know about their interpersonal reactions, what we saw was a crystal clear case of Taeil touching Winwin in a way that made him physically uncomfortable. To me, body language is something that says far more than words ever could, and what we all saw was Taeil doing something that if someone did openly at a workplace in say America or Europe, their career would already be finished. And as entertaining or fascinating some folks feel about the shipping culture that exists in kpop, stuff like this proves that some people are stretching their views of what is socially acceptable because it fits a narrative they want to see. I also somewhat agree with post a couple of pages back that said other male idols have done this too. It isn't okay with Taeil and it isn't okay with them. I'm honestly really glad we are having a discussion on this, because this is an issue that needs to be brought up every time it happens if we ever want things to change.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

[cjbenny]

Thank you so much for being understanding. You're absolutely right, this instance doesn't happen in a vacuum. And I don't think anyone is saying Taeil is a monster or a horrible person, I don't think anyone wants to write him off forever or end his career, we're just pointing to specific behavior that is problematic. The defensiveness people are showing is actually making some of us have to fight harder than we would have otherwise because we can't just let this be treated like it's not a big deal. I want Taeil and Winwin both to have long, successful careers but I want this behavior to stop because it clearly makes Winwin uncomfortable and if it keeps escalating, it really could damage Taeil's career imo. I appreciate your openness.

I really think this point needs to be stressed, I feel like a couple of people saw this as people attacking Taeil's character or somehow painting him as a predator. But like you stated, this behavior might be a symptom of something more problematic in the long run. As someone who respects him as a really talented singer/artist, I want him to realize that this isn't acceptable in this day and age and that it will only paint him in a bad light if he does more stuff like this. And God knows how humiliating it is for Winwin to go through this in front of others/cameras.

[cjbenny]

Honestly, Jungwoo looked so ridiculous pretty (and cute!) for Halloween. That costume and his natural flirtatiousness with the rest of NCT makes for a hell of a lot of interesting interactions, and I'm so happy that SM keeps unloading us with daily NCT vids using all these new channels lol.

Edited December 2, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Hey everyone! I haven't posted here in a while (I miss you guys). Anyway, I've kind of been getting into Stray Kids, and they have some interesting moments:

 

 

 

What are your opinions on the members?

Aww, we miss you too Aisling, your input is always welcome and insightful!

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

Edited December 5, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

I agree completely. This thread can be very confusing. There are a ton of people in different groups who have very similar and even a lot who have exactly the same names.

Seriously, it took me forever to differentiate reading Taeyeon, Taeyong, Taehyung, and Taeyang. Not to mention the multiple Jimins, Minhyuks, Jonghyuns, etcetera. This is where knowing how to read Hangul came in handy for me lol. East Asian names being romanized always looks confusing to me.

Edited December 5, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

They're gorgeous but see, all this absolutely baffles me. 

 

How is SK totally fine with this kind of intimate, (and at other times verging on homoerotic) content coming at them so openly and yet when it comes to legit LGBT in real life they flip their lid? 

 

What do they actually think goes on between, i.e. gay men, because it's largely tender, loving stuff like this, the same as it is for hets. Yet if you dare associate these things (even gentle touching, relaxing, cuddling) with the reality of being a gay person it's freak out time. 

 

Serious question but do they just think being gay is about anal sex? I'd love to know what they're being taught. Or not being taught. 

I think it's really the convergence of a lot of factors. Naïveté or outright ignorance about gay people/LGBT culture, their heavily conservative society, the lack of LGBT visibility other than Hong Seok-cheon, Holland and MRSHLL (as much as I love them, they're still in the fringes of South Korea's mainstream view).

 

It is frustrating as a gay Asian to see the sheer lack of awareness on stuff like this though. My straight male Filipino friends are some of the most touchy guys I know. They'll cling to me (and other guys) in hugs, and yet they are still the ones who knew jack about sh*t about gay people until they got to know me. And I'm sure others in this thread who are Korean who can speak to it with more authority, but I was in South Korea for a couple of weeks last year, and it was still bewildering to see how physically close some guys were in public. In Busan, I still remember seeing these two teenage boys, one of whom had his head in the other's lap while they were sitting on a bench. It was cute and refreshing to see it as an American, until I remembered that in their head, there's nothing likely gay about it.

 

And I think that's really the crux of it, which you nailed completely. There is a chasm between skinship/homoeroticism and homosexuality because they don't inherently link them together. Being gay is deviance, abnormal, strange, or wrong. Yet I feel like South Korea and k-pop have given us a glimpse into a strange but utterly worthwhile discussion on masculinity. Here is a country where men spend more on skincare and cosmetics than anywhere else on the planet. A country whose primary cultural export of k-pop features male idols playing pocky/paper kissing games and enough homoeroticism to make me blush. Seeing that level of closeness between guys was a big reason into why I got into k-pop in the first place, and yet I'm beginning to see just how similar fanservice and the k-pop shipping culture is to something like yaoi. It's there to please a primarily female audience and fetishizes male intimacy.

 

That's why Cheolsoo and Jangho (the Korean youtuber and his boyfriend we've previously discussed here) are so damn refreshing for me to watch. They're an actual gay couple, acting like a couple in love. In one beautiful video, they are walking in a park at night, and Cheolsoo holds Jangho's hand. Then he says that hopefully they could do it someday later, even in broad daylight. And that's where South Korea is at. Where two openly gay men don't feel safe or comfortable to hold their hands in public, all while we get dozens of photoshoots/videos of guys draped all over each other. It's a sad reality, but one I'm hopeful changes because of people like Cheolsoo and his other gay youtuber friends like Hyunmin, who runs the channel 민ë”월드MINTHEWORLD. By simply being out there and visible, they are making a difference.

Edited December 12, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

This is so true and beyond annoying. It's stuff like that has really soured my opinion on the paper kissing game and overt 'gay' fanservice in general. I can't stand the hypocrisy of it all.

 

But yeah i also find it strange this was aired (and apparently not made a big deal about?)

It really is stupidly frustrating, but the skinship/fanservice culture is a byproduct of a society where heternormativity reigns supreme, and every idol is assumed if not expected to be straight. I am sure that once South Korea becomes more accepting towards LGBT people, the overtly gay fanservice oddly will taper off since cuddling and kissing is (shocker!!!) something that gay people actually do.

 

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Edited December 13, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

Which idol/group y'all think can survive career wise, if they come out to be gay?

Cheap simple answer? BTS. Their worldwide popularity now includes the western market, which would cushion whatever financial blowback they would get from Asia and elsewhere. It's also likely where they'd get the most vocal support from both fans, and other celebs. But of course, it's never as simple as that. Their home is still South Korea, which is still a heavily conservative country, and that's a barrier that few (if any) would be willing to cross. I sadly think that an idol is more likely to be outed against their will like Aaron Yan, than to do it on their own terms.

 

Other answers are the ones that even certain pockets of Korea would already expect to be LGBT and have already completed their military service, like Jo Kwon or Heechul. Whoever it is, will cause a enormous tidal shift in the public opinion on gay issues, and I only hope that they have a massive support system around them to help ignore the inevitable bigots, whilst also inspiring other closeted people to have the confidence to come out themselves.

Edited December 30, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

SK has yet to have their "Stonewall Moment", that is, one grand moment of transformation. In the USA this took place in 1969 at the Stonewall Inn, NYC. Out of this came the Gay Liberation Front, and a host of Gay Rights groups that eventually changed the public's mind, as well as the medical profession which at one point had Homosexuality listed as a mental health issue.

 

One day SK will enact it's own version, and this will set in motion the final shift...when that will be, I've no idea, but each nation has had it happen in one form or another.

I somewhat agree, but the times and circumstances are thankfully better now. There was no internet during the sixties for LGBT folks to communicate with others, no out celebrities to look up to (granted South Korea is lacking in public LGBT figures but at least thanks to globalization, they have Troye Sivans and Sam Smiths to learn about). Stonewall was a flashpoint where a group of oppressed people rushed from the shadows to let their voices be heard, in a time and era where they were considered deviants and perverts, and on that point, I do agree. The Korean LGBT community needs some event or person that will galvanize them together to form meaningful change.

 

Gay rights in America was the buildup of countless things. Stonewall, Matthew Shephard's murder, marriage certificates being handed out in San Francisco, Massachusetts voting to approve gay marriage on a state level, Lawrence v Texas, Obergefell v. Hodges, but most importantly, constant exposure of the LGBT community. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later, and the news about Thailand and gay marriage makes me excited for the future.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

Edited December 31, 2018 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

I think some people here are forgeting bisexuality exists and dating the opposite sex doesn't make anyone any less LGBT.

Seriously. It's sad how in this day and age, bisexuality is still misunderstood or downright ignored by both the hetero and gay community. If you're with the opposite sex, it's either you're assumed straight, or closeted and using them as a beard. If you're with the same sex, then it's just a case of "you're gay, you're just going through a phase."

 

That's not to say that Kai is or isn't a member of the LGBT community, none of us will likely ever know the actual sexual identity of any idol for the foreseeable future until Korea actually changes it's stance on LGBT issues on a massive societal and governmental level. Because it's unlikely anyone will risk their life and career to be out (at least before military enlistment which as many have stated here, is crucial for any fundamental progress to be made).

 

That's why Holland and MRSHLL and Cheolsoo + Jangho and Hyunmin (of the YouTube channel mintheworld) are so damn important, moreso than any fun speculation and guessing that we have in this thread, because they are laying the groundwork for LGBT progress in Korea. By simply being openly gay Korean men talking about their struggles, they are both an outlet for younger closeted LGBT Koreans to look up to, and visibility for Koreans as a whole.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using OneHallyu mobile app

Edited January 1, 2019 by cjbenny

[cjbenny]

I've always been interested in this phenomenon in fiction. I've also noticed that in American fiction, rape/non-con used to be much more common in M/M fiction (especially fanfiction, mostly written by women) than it is now. There could be many explanations, but I think it's partly because the author is coming from a place of seeing it as taboo, and so they think they need to excuse it by having another character force themselves on the main character. In other words, don't blame the protagonist; he couldn't help it.

In M/M fiction, slash fanfics, and yaoi/BL media, the roles are so clear cut between seme and uke. One character is almost always the "man" and the other, the "woman". I always personally thought 90% of BL stories as the generic a**hole badboy (or rich playboy) who ends up falling for the pretty dainty guy, and oftentimes forcing himself on him. They fall in love, the uke "changes and betters him" and they live happily ever after, although those stories are rare as hell. The dozens I've seen always ended either with having one of the guys stuck in an unhappy straight relationship with a girl because they won't come out, or one of them getting killed in some random-ass action plot. And yet, I'll still keep watching them, because it's gay content and I'm starved for those, sigh.

 

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Edited January 3, 2019 by cjbenny