Which male idols do you think are gay?

[raspberry84]

What is this Yoongi is Straight blasphemy that I'm seeing?

Are we collectively forgetting him openly talking about his verse in Spring Day being about another dude? Or how he went on a tangent describing his ideal man?

Or how he and Taehyung are both clearly members of the "J-Hope is gay catnip" club?

Honestly, nothing in this world will convince me he, Taehyung and Jungkook are straight.

Edited September 26, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

I really dislike the idea that we shouldn't speculate on someone's sexuality cause it could hurt their career or similar arguments. To me that kinda just reinforces the idea that straight is the default and unless we're explicitly told someone is LGBT we have to treat them like they're straight. There is nothing wrong with being LGBT and therefore speculating someone is isn't a negative thing and the concern seems misdirected (maybe call out the people who are homophobic).

And with me fanservice doesn't mean much unless it's real extreme or they're hesitant to do it at all. When someone falls on the extremes it doesn't necessarily mean anything on it's own but it is worth noting and combining into the bigger picture when speculating. 

I think the behind the scenes stuff and who is affectionate with who when they don't realize they're on camera/not on a scripted show.

One thing that I take as the strongest form of evidence is off-hand comments made by members of the same group. Sometimes how other members react to situations, comments, etc. is WAY more telling.

[raspberry84]

Forgot to mention that months have passed but I'm still lowkey (lbr highkey) suspicious of Yoongi and Taehyung.

At the very least Yoongi caught feelings and had a crush and they seemed to be flirting in Yoongi's birthday vlive.

There I said it and I regret nothing.

[raspberry84]

Figured I'd share some suspect moments between Taehyung and Yoongi since it seems like I'm not the only one here who noticed something up between the two.

At the last they're physically comfortable with each other.

And sometimes Taehyung ignores the group hug to just hug Yoongi for reasons (apparently)

 

And I stand by the statement they were flirting on this vlive.

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by raspberry84
I'm here for the petty downvotes cause I contradicted your ship LOL *waves at the recent browsing*

[raspberry84]

12 minutes ago, Gerimolda said:

Ohh raspberry i missed you too. No shipper should be in this thread to be honest, we've said multiple times this is not a shipping thread, there are another ones for that. And I've never been too fond of using interactions of two members of the same group to prove something about their orientations. I can be somehow useful but not so much because the perception gets blurry when it gets inevitably mixed up with shipping. 

People discuss Heechul and Gunhee here a lot despite the fact that most of it comes from reality shows together with the occasional instragram post. And honestly I think most people here agreed there was something between Key and Jonghyun despite it never officially being confirmed.

While it can slide into the arena of shipping I don't think it's fair to say that we shouldn't discuss the possibility. It's always a strange resistance to say that you can speculate that someone might be queer and cite examples of people they might be dating or attracted outside the group but rule out dating someone within the group.

That happens with het and queer couples that have been confirmed in the past (let's not collectively forget Hyuna and E'Dawn or how K'Pop broke up as a result of two members dating & breaking up). 

It only becomes a problem when people start presenting it as fact, negging any post that contradicts their own speculation and insisting your narrative is correct.

Edited September 30, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

1 hour ago, Gerimolda said:

I know it's something that might happen and probably has happened. But fewer times than we believe. I believe there was something between Jaejoong and Yunho, and I also think that about Key and Jonghyun! And I really think Heechul was in love with Hangeng back then. I also know the K'Pop case. I'm somehow convinced about Jr and Ren but it's been a long time since the last time i read something about them in this thread. 

And about heechul and gunhee, it's not true that most of the proofs come from reality shows. In which reality show they've been together?? They have starred in some TV programs about hairstyle, fashion, interviews, lives. Simsimtapa, A Style For You, Get It Beauty, Naked 4show.. which one is a reality show??? But Gunhee isn't even a celebrity, if you have seen some of them, Gunhee has trouble speaking in front of the cameras. And other sources for proofs we have are Facebook and Weibo posts, testimonies from fans, videos of them recorded by fans and the things Heechul said on the radio program he did when he was doing his public service. And you forget the most important thing: they're not in the same boyband. Gunhee is not an idol, not even a celebrity. He's only a hairdresser and a bussinessman. Idol ships betweet same group members get pushed by the companies, meanwhile ships like gunheechul, between an idol and his possible commoner boyfriend get hidden like when they sent them BOTH to We Got Married.

Something really cute that I haven't seen posted here it's this IG post of Heechul's sister that is an "occasional ig post" but neither from Heechul or Gunhee.

 

Uncle Gunhee~ and Tae-in know the angle #Taein #Gunhee #The importance of the angle.

She basically confirmed Gunhee is the uncle of her kids.

 

 

 

Regardless of how often it does happen, we can both acknowledge it does happen and I personally think that is enough grounds to make it fair game for speculation. That same argument (it's not frequent, etc.) have been used as reasons why we shouldn't speculate about an idol's sexuality or speculate about more than one member per group.

All of those shows you listed that Heechul and Gunhee where on count as reality or variety tv. They're scripted and heavily edited. The same can be said for things that Heechul said on his radio show. All of those need to be taken with a grain of salt and the same arguments can be made for/against them as suggesting two members of the same group are attracted to each other. That was commercial material they were putting out as product to fans and knew would be consumed by an audience.

You're looking at the situation differently because they aren't in the same group but that is the only major difference. Much of the material that gets referenced is similar to what people could post as evidence between members. And yes, companies push some ships but not all and that can impact speculation as well.

For example, one of the most telling pieces of evidence for about Tae and Yoongi is how much of their interaction was edited out of the last Bon Voyage (especially after looking at their daily journals from the trip, the switching of shirts, etc.). It's not about what was being pushed so much as what seemed to be hidden away (intentional or not).

If it's fair grounds to speculate about Gunhee and Heechul than I think it's fair game to speculate about idols inside and outside of groups.

Finally, I honestly think dating or hooking up within company is probably more frequent than we think. Look at any other career path and it's fairly common for people to meet their significant other at work. We also see this happening all the time in Hollywood when co-stars get together. The people we work with (and in the case of idols, live with) are the people we see the most so it's not unusual for relationships of all levels to happen.

Edited September 30, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

12 hours ago, Melany said:

damn the taegi shippers so annoying. How can you compare Gunhee heechul to any bts ships??

It’s almost like people have different opinions. Insulting someone by calling them annoying cause you disliked a post that pointed out the similarities in speculating about couples both inside and outside of groups isn’t a great look.

It’s possible to disagree with opinions here without insulting people or shaming them cause they have a different opinion than you.

Edited October 2, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

2 hours ago, Melany said:

im sorry but didn't you reject taekook for the same lame proof? or some of members on jikook? Everyone take them as  a joke but then we have to take taegi differently even if the proof aren't much differents.

Im a long time lurker and i noticed how you reacted to vkook vs taegi. Im not even a jikook/vkook shipper and bts is among my last favourite group but the double standard in the fandom anoy me. 

Also super junior are maybe not a thing internationaly anymore, but they for sure has still a dedicated fans in korea. So they still have their sasaeng, and they also have to be careful.

 

Or maybe we apply the same level of respect to all speculation regardless of group or members. 

[raspberry84]

2 hours ago, Melany said:

yeah that what i think too. If you find a suspicious taegi/ vkook/ chanbaek/ verkwan moments you should be able to post without anyone yelling at you.

Some people can upvote, some downvote, or just ignore. I just got triggered because the person pushing taegi thing  were the one saying to stop posting "shippy stuff" on vkook or whatever

Are you referring to me? Cause I never said not to post vkook (I mean, take a look at my badge).

If you’re referring to my edit referencing shippers edit I made- the names that showed up viewing the threads right after those downvotes were names of delusion shippers who have a history of downvoting anything that isn’t their ship. Of the “gay people are gross but this pairing is my fetish” variety.

Edited October 4, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

 

Since OH was down at the time, we didn't get a chance to discuss how Jose got harassed for being gay and daring to comment on this. It's especially frustrating since BTS has been vocal about supporting the LGBT community and, lbr, have at least 2 or 3 queer members themselves.

Further reminding us that straight people ain't shit.

I'm waiting for the day that some idols comes out just to see the homophobic fansgirls lose their mind.

[raspberry84]

I'm gonna give him a benefit of a doubt on this one because, honestly, if it was published in a book that all students got I would imagine this would have leaked a long time ago during his other scandals about his behavior in school.

[raspberry84]

Call me cynical but considering it was confirmed he bullied another person who cried for an hour when they met for an apology and both SM & Taeyong referred to this person as a "friend".....

I'm not buying that the homophobic joke was actually a joke between friends. I think they're trying to use that word to lighten his bullying and it probably was done as a joke at the other person's expense.

Also I work in a middle school. Most bullying at that age takes place *within* friends group, not some victim who is an outlier. Those situations are easy to catch and deal with. It's when the bullies treat a "friend" that way and use their "friendship" as a way to convince them to put up with it and not say anything at fear of losing their friend group.

Edited October 12, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

Just now, Tixy said:

https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2017/03/enter-talk-controversy-around-nct.html

"Haechan: Seriously Taeyong hyung has the best visual, but to be honest that's because his personalities are so so"

This remains only a rumor at this point as far as I know, but if true, then it seems like Taeyong's personality hasn't really improved from his school days.

The wording is just so bizarre. The choice of calling the victims of his bullying his friends is in some way so insidiously evil, because they are trying to subtly paint an image that while Taeyong did hurt someone, these were ultimately equal relationships, and not the ones between the victims and their bully. They are trying to lessen what he did so people would have an easier time forgiving him. He only remembered to ask for forgiveness now that Super M has debuted, give me a break lol.

Yep. So let's be real, he was bullying and being homophobic with his "joke" and the fact they're still excusing and downplaying that is making me think not much has changed. He ain't shit.

[raspberry84]

4 minutes ago, cjbenny said:

Long post so apologies ahead of time but Im'ma snatch what I posted on the reddit/kpop page.

As a gay guy (who was bullied in my teenage years) who loves NCT and considers Taeyong as my bias of the group, hearing this story was sad and frustrating. Bullying is flat out wrong, regardless of youth or immaturity or external circumstances involved in the bully's life. For every kid with a troubled life that bullied someone else, there were plenty of other kids with troubled lives that knew better than to hurt others. People who are bullied suffer self-esteem issues and God knows how many other mental health issues that often times can drive them to the brink of suicide, which is all the more damning considering South Korea's ridiculous suicide rates among youth. And as others have pointed out, he is living the celebrity life with millions of adoring fans who will flock to him throughout any controversy. All while the people he bullied are likely watching from the sidelines. There is no excuse for his actions.

However, take aside the cynicism that this comes alongside SuperM's debut. Take aside the fact that SM framed it as a redemption story where the victim forgives him and he has grown from it (because no matter what, we do not know who he really is.)

This story along with things like the Burning Sun Scandal shows that everything in Korean entertainment (or pretty much any celebrity culture around the world) is filtered through a shiny lens. Kpop is rife with young fans who have yet to really comprehend the idea that what they see from ALL these idols is a facade. They watch these countless videos of idols on youtube and decide that they have a deep understanding of who they are as people and what their true selves are. Look, we're human. Some aspect of what we perceive about idols is going to be true because no one is one hundred percent acting for each and every second they're on camera. Yet they are still on camera folks. Their livelihood and successes are dependent on creating an image that is friendly and palatable to everyone, and a jackass making homophobic comments left and right isn't going to sit well in that environment.

I typically stay away from delving too deep into a fandom and attaching myself to these artists because, at the end of the day, they are essentially products made for me to consume and spend money on. I will always appreciate their hard work and their striving to give us entertainment on a regular basis. But I also know that a lot of them are humans who have f*cked up in the past and will likely f*ck up in the future, and that some of them are probably irredeemably horrible individuals.

Do not forget the victim and what they suffered. I will take with a grain of salt that Taeyong learned his lesson and grew from it. Could he be lying through his teeth and still be a jerk? Maybe, but considering we'll never know unless we have a glimpse inside his mind, I will take this action for what it is. An attempt to apologize and ask for forgiveness and to show that he has changed for the better. But the sad thing is that if we do get some idea that he hasn't changed, apologists will flood through the woodwork and defend him to the death all for the sake of maintaining the false idea in their head, that he's a perfect man.

Has anyone here scene amazon's The Boys?

The show starts out with this storyline about how one of the superheroes accidentally kills the main character's girlfriend. The first episode or two look at how it's being spun to the public (asking for forgiveness, apologizing) and includes the hero apologizing to the main character. But behind the scenes it's obvious the Superhero doesn't care, the main character is pressured by the company to take the apology and the hero is making jokes about about killing her to friends.

I kinda wanna force all of the people defending him to watch that and then show them what SM is doing here and see if they make any connections. Cause it's so obvious at this point how fake their whole reaction has been.

[raspberry84]

3 minutes ago, reiichi said:

Thing is, Taeyong has had bullying rumors in the past, but this homophobic comment only resurfaces today when SuperM is promoting, so I'd assume that the person resurfacing this is just as calculating as SM.

I'm not trying to defend TY here, just saying that showing this to the public ten years after the fact is only a move to discredit him once again. Bullying rumors are so common with idols, it just happens that for TY there's actually some truth to it. 

Are we really going to attack or shame the victim because they didn’t come out with this info on the timeline you deemed acceptable?

Yikes.

[raspberry84]

9 minutes ago, reiichi said:

Someone came out with the info ten years after the fact, the WEEK SuperM debuted.

Tell me it was a coincidence, I'll laugh.

And who cares?

They confirmed he wrote it. He did what the person claimed he did.

Everything else is secondary. I don’t give a fuck about their motivation for this timing. If they’re the victim they can tell us that whenever the hell they want to. It doesn’t make them less of a victim or him less guilty.

[raspberry84]

38 minutes ago, seashells said:

Not to be that person, but as someone who spends a lot of time around middle schoolers, they can be pretty terrible all around. That's not saying all middle schoolers are bullying each other, but I do think there's a sense of not only trying to belong but also of trying to stand out. This leads them to either be really rude to their peers or to their teachers. On the teacher end, I don't know how many times middle schoolers tried to make me cry. I begged my principal to let me please work a different grade and she wouldn't because she felt I was one of the few teachers that could handle them. Which was true. Every time they tried something I could easily brush it off or have a comeback. 

That being said, I don't really care much for Taeyong. I wasn't a bully so I know it's possible not to be. I also know tho that I did say some pretty shifty things in middle school that wouldn't be acceptable now. I remember throwing around the phrase "hot tr***y mess" a lot. I know I made jokes with my other gay friends about how we "caught the gay" or what our "root" was. It was a running joke after watching But I'm a Cheerleader. I'm sure if people read those comments now they would think I was insulting my friend when in reality, it wasn't like that. I know I definitely said something like "so and so is gay because her Dad was the stay at home parent."

I personally just don't really care about Taeyong and think he's highly overrated. That being said, to assume no one changes since middle school is short sighted. 

Edit: That being said, I completely understand those who are upset. 

I also teach middle schoolers and I think anyone who does can acknowledge that middle schoolers are mean. Just really, really mean. With that said, it doesn't mean it's not bullying because it's more common with middle schoolers than in other grades. It's still bullying and it's part of our job to teach them that and to be better.

And yea, the majority of them learn and grow out of it and become better people.

It's the fact that he's adult and still trying to defend that behavior (saying it was a harmless joke, referring to his victims as "friends", etc) that makes me think he hasn't actually learned.

Also I question whether or not they were called out on this behavior in middle school since the school legit printed his message in a book that was given to all students.

Edited October 12, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

7 minutes ago, seashells said:

The thing is, I think that says a lot about the school he was in? I would never allow that to be printed. I'm the one who actually does the yearbook. But maybe I watch too much Korean TV but I'm under the impression that comments about weight, appearances, etc are completely acceptable. Also, violence tends to be a lot more physical. 

It is our job to teach them to be better, but at the same time, as you said, they are really really mean. 

And I'm sure you've experienced this too, but more often than not it actually is a 'friend' that is the bully. It's under current comments. It's passive aggressive. Sometimes it's straight up physical and the victim will even go back. I don't know how many times I told a student that their friend was treating them like shut for them to go right back to that friend. 

Normalization and justification for bullying doesn't mean it's not actually bullying. 

And I said it earlier, most bullying in middle school happens within friends group because it's easier to get away with it because the victim is scared of losing their social group if they let an adult know what is happening. Other members of the social group are also pressured into silence or participating because they don't wanna be targeted next. 

It why the argument that he was "friends" with his victims doesn't hold any actual weight because they weren't actually his friends. They were his victims who he claimed as a friend so he could continue or excuse the bullying.

Edited October 12, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

13 minutes ago, seashells said:

I'm in no way normalizing or giving a justification. 

I'm saying that more often that not it is a friend and a lot of times the victim themselves will consider the person to be a friend. That's my personal experience in the ten years I've had to observe this. I see it more as an abuse victim going back to their abuser. Doesn't mean it's not abuse. 

And you don't know what some of them weren't legitimately his friends. You're making it sound like he was the ring leader when he very well could have been one of those friends who also joined in because someone else was the ring leader. 

I don't really care enough to continue this conversation. But nowhere was I justifying the behavior. 

This is getting off topic but you're posts came off, in my opinion, as trying to justify or downplay his actions. 

By constantly pointing out that middle schoolers are mean, that these type of comments are normal and then saying "Hey, maybe they really WERE his friends!" because victims are usually conditioned to believe that is downplaying and justifying what happened.

We know what he did. It's bullying.

And even in his response he's using the same strategy (saying they're friends) to soften what he did and make it about himself (talking about his own feelings, bringing up his own pain and bringing press to the apology).

Edit: It's just especially unnerving to me that people within the gay thread are defending, in any way, a comment that either made homosexuality an insult or attacked a lgbt "friend" for their sexuality.

Edited October 12, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

8 minutes ago, singularstigma said:

I’ve been reading this thread for quite a while now, since well before the crash but never made an account. I did join Hallyuland when that was around though. Now that the Taeyong situation has arisen I just wanted to add my own thoughts as another gay guy. I didn’t particularly want to bring this back up again but it is an important topic.

From everything that I’ve read on here up until now it’s generally been accepted that Taeyong is gay but once this information was revealed as true it appears there’s been a backtrack on that assumption  (maybe I’m miss interpreting) and I can’t understand why. So much evidence pointing to him being gay is suddenly invalid why? Like it or not, this won’t change the fact Taeyong has a long list of receipts that suggest he’s gay. I in no way want to justify what he said at all. That said, I do want to try and come up with some sort of explanation as to why he may have done that. I still am very sure that Taeyong hasn’t got a single heterosexual bone in his body. I think this might have been a case where he didn’t want to accept his own sexuality or maybe he was very insecure about it and in order to hide it, shield himself or deny himself he took to being homophobic. To me at least that would seem plausible especially given how homophobic Korean society is today not to mention a few years ago when this incident would have taken place. This happens even in societies not even half as hostile as South Korea.  Does this excuse the fact he made a homophobic remark at one stage that may have hurt the target? No, of course not, nor does it forgive way the other victim was treated. But it doesn’t mean we should write off the presumption that Taeyong himself is gay. 

This isn’t the note I wanted to join in on this forum on but I felt I needed to comment so here I am. Feel free to disagree of course, but it’s worth taking into consideration. 

I think it's more than just the homophobic joke, it's his bullying behavior in general and the fact that he doesn't actually come off as being remorseful for what he did. 

Their official response to the message being posted was "It was harmless joke between friends." That isn't even any apology nor does he show any remorse.

The person he apologized to, I believe, is a different individual who also claims to have been bullied by him in the past (although I might be mistaken on that). Regardless of his sexuality this isn't a great look.

Edited October 12, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

50 minutes ago, bb8__ said:

.Obviously some homophobes aren't going to be gay or part of the lgbt, but some are that's my point. Not saying homophobes=gay. There is this, if you wanna watch. Also some studies on JSTOR

 

You said “usually” people who are homophobic are gay. That implies the majority are and that’s not the case.

The majority of people who are homophobic are straight and bigoted due to their culture. There is small percentage who are lgbt who suffer from internalized homophobia.

That video references a study with a very small subject pool (around 50 men) and used penile reaction to determine if attraction (far from the best way to gauge actual sexual attraction).

This also tends to imply to the extremely homophobic men, not casual homophobia and right now we have nothing to suggest he is extremely homophobic. 

Edit: this also requires them to basically self-identify as being homophobic. And we know how many people out there make these jokes, use this language and are mildly homophobic but will insist they’re not.

Edited October 13, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

At this point we're not gonna come to an agreement on Taeyong.

Some people will forgive him and still be fans since he was much younger when he said and did these things. Other people are going to think less of him because of this and the way he's handling things today. Neither side is really gonna change their mind.

The only thing I think we should have a hard line on is people trying to cover it up or acting like what he said (when he said it) wasn't harmful and dangerous. I think that is something we can all agree on since we know the damage bullying can have on middle schoolers. 

Edit: Sidenote but the user that made that thread "debunking" the Taeyong rumors has also defended Lana (the Russian girl who debuted as a solo kpop singer) whens she was criticized for cultural appropriation and getting surgery to look Korean so their judgment is especially questionable.

Edited October 13, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

15 minutes ago, Rex27 said:

I'm not going to argue anymore about this situation , some will believe this some will not ... But what we can agree on is that there is no proof from both sides , and I wanted to show one of those sides since everyone here is hating on him , we will wait for an official statment from his company that if there's one .thank you

 

edit: I'm not a fan of lana at all but her situation has nothing to do with this , that's just a matter of opinion + they didn't judge anything they just provided proof about his situation and I'm a fan of taeyong since 2015 and what she put is all true , she did research something that news outlets havent even put effort to do  

You admit that you are a fan of his and I think that explains why you so desperately want to believe the people who are telling you it's all made up. It's why you're willing to ignore all of the news that was reported and believe a twitter account because it's what you want to hear.

That thread was not all true. Moth explained that to you and yet you're still backing it 100%.

It's alright to remain his fan and acknowledge that people change and grow. It's not ok to try to silence the voices of victims because you don't want to acknowledge any wrongdoing.

[raspberry84]

Since we've now moved into the part of the conversation where people complaining about this being off-topic without actually posting anything on-topic either, I'll post some old-school gayness.

This collab did not get the love and appreciation here that it deserved.

 

We've hit the one year mark before he's released from the military and I'm really interested to see what he does with that complete.

I'd like to discuss his lyrics from his last solo album but I know when that came out some people were uncomfortable with that because of connections being made to Jonghyun and the freshness of that wound.

I'm thinking about posting some speculation and thoughts here since more time has past (although I'll probably put it behind a spoiler cut for those who want to avoid it).

Edited October 13, 2019 by raspberry84

[raspberry84]

1 hour ago, Thatoneuser said:

Siwon just tweeted out this. If this doesn't scream out gay, then idk what does.

https://twitter.com/siwonchoi/status/1185808269731721216?s=20

Siwon has a lot of receipts, I just don't if this one actually screams gay. I think it's more him comparing the two photos.