Which male idols do you think are gay?

[Bushi]

 

4) Whatever the fuck is going on between him and Yoongi.

 

 

 

 

[Bushi]

Shippers go hard on their subjects then turn round and say (and I've literally seen this happen) 'Don't get pressed, it's only fun, I don't believe they're really together'. 

 

That's not what I think the majority of people here are doing. Few are are going to get offended if two guys in any K-pop group were/are together (I imagine most of us would be super happy for them) and secondly, I think the people here like to look for real evidence and as much fact to present an argument as possible. For me there's a huge difference between believing you have a case to make for something that looks rational versus yelling 'I will go down with this ship' and spending all day writing AU fic (some of it is very good, lol) 

 

I'm quite open to acknowledgement or correcting with a good argument/counter evidence that goes against my own views and always stress it's only my opinion, ergo meaningless in the grand scheme of things. A shipper would literally go down with the ship they don't even believe in. Ironic really.  

Edited October 6, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

very off topic but today i was watching a star is born in the theaters and before they showed a preview of boy erased and god was that mortifying. i live in alabama and am closeted still in fear of my father and the character is very reminiscent of me....so awkward and humiliating

 

Take care and stay safe. 

[Bushi]

Does anyone know what's going on? 

[Bushi]

Guys, can we not draw a line under it and move on? 

 

If you think Heechul's straight he's not (jk, jk! I have no idea!) that's totally fine. One says tomayto, one says tomato. No problemo. We can co-exist, I'm sure.

 

So please, let's just shake hands and try not to implode faster than Yoongi's legs after he'd chugged an Irish Bomb in Malta. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

no, and it's too boring reading through it to find out.

 

I'll drink to that.

 

It's one of those days where I deeply wish Minhyuk would rescue us. 

[Bushi]

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that Tae and Yoongi didn't get along, everyone in BTS seems to have a fairly solid relationship between them.

 

It's worth noting that pre-Hawaii that Tae and Yoongi weren't that close compared to others in the group, even if they obviously cared about each other and got along. One of the suspicious things is how close they've gotten since then, especially since around March or April of this year. Even if you don't think there is anything suspect about their relationship they're clearly closer now than they were in like 2015/2016 and are arguably two of the closest members now.

 

So it's really a matter of opinion of what that shift in their closeness means but I think we can agree they're closer now than before and that may or may not mean something.

 

 

 

Has anyone considered that Yoongi might have seemed dismissive and a bit annoyed or critical of Taehyung in the past as a way of just getting his attention? That he might have in reality been shy and awkward and was 'bossy hyung' because it was expected of him in his role?

 

He peppered all this by several times saying how attractive Taehyung was (to the point of embarrassing him), bigging him up then swiping him now and then. As if he could be critical but he'd defend Tae when others picked on him. Classic passive-aggressive stuff. ;) This year has been very different.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

More fun with Nonsense X (Wonho in the middle of it, whoda thunk, <3) and Seventeen. 

 

Click here to view the Tweet

 

Not a calm head of hair in the building:

 

Click here to view the Tweet

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

 

 

in general, do you guys think there are any idols who turn down fanservice because they don't want their family to think they're gay? or idols who aren't out to their parents?

 

https://www.vlive.tv/video/60717?channelCode=DB547B  v-live where they talk about seollal, jaemin is asked around 5.40

 

Is water wet?   ;)

 

I think fear of family judgement is at the heart of a lot of idol stress and ergo their actions. Fandoms tend to assume it's fans or society that is most on the minds of idols when it comes to such matters, but my guess is idols bigger apprehensions exist much closer to home and probably dictate a good deal of their behaviours. 

 

How many people here are/were terrified of family reaction to coming out more than anything else society could throw at them? 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

^^ One of the comments on that video says he performed that in front of his parents. 

 

If they're there its a good sign they are supportive of his career choice. 

[Bushi]

Hoshi's dad is precious.

 

New Papermag interview with Holland, it's really good. He doesn't want to be an agency 'puppet' and he's decided he's going to gatecrash the UN as well. I agree, I think he should.   

 

http://www.papermag.com/holland-queer-visibility-kpop-2611133991.html

 

He wants to do a Christmas song! He'd no doubt get minimal to no play from Korean main media if he does. But at least he'd be able to potentially express his affection for a man in song, with or without a duet partner. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poor Tae. I feel so sad for him. Such wack injustice. 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

For those interested. 

 

I came across it yesterday and figured I'd post it here. I'm going to sign it and others may wish to if they agree with it. They look to be wanting about 100 signatures so not sure what good it can do but anyway...

 

https://www.change.org/p/k-pop-community-get-rid-of-lgbt-discrimination-in-korea-and-the-sk-entertainment-industry

 

But this part caught my eye: "A report showed that there are over 40 K-Pop Idols ALONE that haven't come out, but only 1 man is openly gay and still successfully doing what he loves, which is music... So what would happen if even just one high-profile idol came out? What if all 40 came out?"

 

Oh really? That's interesting. I'll do some digging on that when time permits today. (Has someone sent a survey round the idols with a 'tick this box if you are closeted'? Hmmm...)

Edited October 11, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Lmfao,   did you see the comments? People are still in so much denial that sehun might (very well) be gay that they're willing to lie their asses off just to cover it up. 

 

 

 

I feel really bad for Sehun, he's one of the top idols who imo are gonna get really bad backlash if he ever decides to come out (although he already did). He doesn't deserve such trash homophobic fans tbh.

 

Sehun is a haute couture gay who can't help himself. 

 

https://twitter.com/sehuneokkae/status/1050473192807178242

 

Quite a lot of his western fans seem to be pretty happy with his confident gayness. Although as you point out there are also fans who leap to remind everyone of what an alleged straight playboy he is and he's just good at 'putting on a gay act' (edit: what are we on now, Act 42, scene 58?).  Okay then. In the meantime Sehun continues to flout every K-pop policy in sight. After his enlistment he should basically just relocate to Europe and be a model. He's already in demand there and Korean men look in their 20s up to around 40, so he's got endless time. 

 

He could trot his boyfriend/s around Paris and London and nobody would bat an eyelid. 

 

I love the last segment of that clip, he literally has to turn away and go get a cold shower. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Over 40? Just 40???

XD probably that's 40 the reporter knows of, or heard the rumors of, and that'd just the gay ones he hasn't touched the bisexual, trans, pansexual etc. every year there are hundreds of groups formed, and entertainment industry is generally one field where the non-straight people gravitate to, no way the number is as low as 40 XD.

 

 

No idea (on actual numbers stated in this report) as I can't find anything about it. Obviously if such a report exists it'll be in Korean but it doesn't seem to have filtered down to any of the English-speaking sites (though I have not checked exhaustively) and my Korean is very basic. The author of the petition may know more.

 

The thing I said about tick boxes was only half in jest. I can imagine K-poppers being surveyed because in the British Premier and Division League football ranks, they do surveys periodically to find out players opinions on things, including how many anonymously identify as non-straight and their views on homophobia at home and abroad. The feedback has shown there are several closeted football players, including in Premier League clubs. 

 

I tend to distrust surveys though because they can spook people. How sure can you be your answers are anonymous and can't be traced to you? In a country such as SK with no legal framework for LGBT+, how extra cautious would that make people with their answers? As we surmise often, there'll be plenty of K-pop guys who outwardly identify as straight but are not. (Edit: also how old is the report, is it out of date?) Suspect you are likely correct that there's way more than 40, with or without claim of a report.

  

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Good one, Chan. Keep it 'secret'. I love how Felix's hands just hang in mid-air at the critical moment. 

 

Stray Kids are brilliant.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

An article in The Times just came out about how BTS is overworked and lonely so they don't have time for GIRLFRIENDS. Warning: this post is a huge salt pile and nothing more.

 

....

 

British entertainment journalism is frequently lazy and biased and Ellen, as much as I like her, is both a very funny woman and a corporate Hollywood apologist. I gave up hoping any of them would bother to present a fuller picture to audiences a long time ago. 

 

On the plus side the number of fans with rainbow flags at BTS' London shows esp. brought a tear my eye. BTS are loved by lots of people, and if anyone ever felt the need (if they indeed are) to put a stamp on it, I think they'd know by now they will be supported by those that count. Which are the fans that stick with an artist or group no matter what. 

 

I'm sure this little fella is new so I'll post him.   

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

A lot depends on whether you believe Jin is unable to understand English entertainment words such as 'actor', 'actress', 'Hollywood' and 'crush'. 

 

^^ The initial question was 'Your Hollywood crush' to which he was looking directly at the interviewer and may 1. have understood that term in English (esp. if told in advance) 2. already been formulating his answer to that. He was even given two female cues from other band members after the interviewer clarified the statement with the word 'actress'. They all know the word 'boycrushee' and they certainly understand what 'Hollywood' means.  

 

 

    0:31 onwards.

 

I don't necessarily think this has to be a definite reflection on his sexuality

the accompanying Lady Gaga and rainbow hair references I have zero heterosexual explanation for

but I do think he was probably responding to the initial 'Hollywood crush'. A crush for Jin might or might not be romantic or sexual. He could just deeply love Pitt's style or work. Only he knows that.  

 

But I'm also not going to assume he's not a sexual being who can't be attracted to others. Nor that he's so wet behind the ears that he doesn't understand basic English trigger words that they've probably been told to expect/were aware of anyway. 

 

 

Or that he's not capable of playing the 'dummy abroad'.

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

That's the thing, they're literally hollering at him and he does his 'I said what I said' face and leaves it there. Prince Jin is not going to scramble for a cover story. He is Prince Jin and everyone can suck it up.  

Edited October 13, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

^^ You'd have loved some of the tarot/astrology readings that appeared here a few moons ago.

[Bushi]

It's really sad that they'd rather have a fuckboy as a bias rather than even thinking of the possibility of him being gay...

 

 

 

Yes, it's one of the most baffling things that I can never get my head around. How could those female fans, who are surely looking for an 'ideal male' who respects/loves them and makes them feel special and safe, do a complete 180 and decide they'd rather their bias be an untrustworthy, roving bedpost-notcher? All in the name of defending his presumed heterosexuality. How's that the fantasy coming true? A total punk who'd use a girl and move on to the next. That's a better alternative than him just being gay and honest about it? 

 

But I guess it's okay to think of your bias as a straight, pantie-dropping fucktoy as long as he's not cheating on you. If only the realities of such hurtful things were that simple, eh? 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

 

 

Are you talking to me? I have no idea what you're talking about if so, sorry!!

 

 

 

Lol, no it was just that as we were on the subject of Jin, it jogged my memory that a while ago there were some folks who did card readings and tarot stuff here on the various K-pop groups. All good fun and not to be taken seriously of course but there was some interesting feedback on Jin. 

 

It got me thinking as Jin gets overlooked at times. I can dig out the links of it's of interest. If not it's no biggie.

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Yeah. If I have a penny for every single westerners-men&women- out there who say "He looks like a girl!/He's feminine!/Is He Gay?" everytime they see asian male celebrity picture, I'd be as rich as Walton family.

It seems that westerner- even the younger generation- has no idea what the aesthetic of asian guy is about, and it makes me want to slam their heads to the nearest wall that they resort to the cliche "feminine=gay" despite years upon years of western LGBTQ attempt to change the stereotype.

Clearly, the west still needs a lot of re-education themselves, nowadays you have people being PC, they would agree with you if you tell them that being feminine doesn't equal to being gay, that a lot of gay and other non-straight men are pretty much ordinary joe with variety of looks. They're lying. Test them with a pretty-looking asian guy picture, and they'd show you their true color.

 

 

O/T mostly, so in spoiler, bit of a fashion/history ramble in relation to K-pop styles:

 

 

I think it's a pretty recent change to machismo, because if you look back through European art (esp that of Italy, a now VERY macho culture overall) men and boys were considered extremely pretty and often used in place of female models. Across Europe royalty and upper class men wore powdered wigs, make-up (inc. blush and lip tints), cravats and fashionable clothing dripping with frills. In Britain the Victorians routinely dressed little boys in girls frocks and used make-up on them (see below). It was considered normal. 

 

 

 

Flemish boy of 1625

 

 

Little Victorian boy dressed as a girl - note tinted cheeks.

 

In places like the UK and France there's a rich history of pantomime/silent shows where men wore makeup, took women's roles onstage and drag queens were/still are commonplace. 

 

Modern times have seen t-shirt/jeans and machismo culture creep in after the rebuild from WW2 and people have largely forgotten (and been born into) countries that once had drag queens, pantomime (these still exist) and super extravagant male courtly fashion. But when it's not what's coming at you day to day it's easy to dismiss it. I would say most western guys now are not directly exposed to styles of clothing as flamboyant and stylish as can be found in Asia. In the UK it's very much sweater, t-shirt and jeans culture. Men here aren't big on makeup but skin care has become a big thing. Also cosmetic procedures. Don't be fooled, men are very self-conscious of their bodies in the west. They're bombarded by images and adverts telling them to 'man up' and get the girl of their dreams by having straight white teeth and to use the correct skin care and shaving gel. Does this also happen in Asia? All the clothing and makeup issues have I think contributed to the west's confused idea of sexuality and 'feminine' men. 

 

Asian men do tend to fit women's clothing better perhaps because of the smaller body sizes and that clothing may be considered more gender neutral/universal in countries like South Korea and Japan, so no big deal? Asian fashion is more elaborate and fun than most western styles. With BTS especially, it's been nice to see fashionable males brought into focus again. One Direction were a global phenomena but dressed like bums. BTS and other K-pop groups are showing that men can be fashionable and I think that's so cool.

 

Having said all that, watch BTS on their days off, it's jeans, t-shirts, no makeup all the way. If they toured without the dress, I wonder what the reaction or impact would be? 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

 

By the way: I've had a straight guy in my class who really liked the color pink. So he often wore pink t-shirts. And no one laughed at him and called him girly. We actually thought that pink suited him and we told him so.

Gradually, with every generation, things are changing!

 

I have a straight workmate who loves pink as well! He also wears flowery shirts to work, it's part of his character and he looks great in them. My gay workmate wears head to toe black: black sweater, black trousers and shoes and a black beanie hat. He's looks as if he's about to commit a heist each day. In five years I have never seen a splash of colour on him and he's as into men as they come. 

 

Dude, I once saw this tweet that said, "There are more gay K-Pop idols than you think." Sounds ominous, but it opened my eyes... and it actually makes a lot of sense?

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Duplicate post. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Bushi

[Bushi]

Btw it's so strange, this whole asian ideals vs western ideals thing. Weren't there famous gay samurai back in the day and it was common for them to take a young male lover without issue? I mean, this only pertains to Japan as far as I know, but the west, with all our religious business, influenced them to shun homosexuality even though our religions didn't really kick off there. So Japan was more progressive lgbt-wise than us, and now they're less, for NO reason because they don't have the religious element. I might be talking shit though because I haven't done my own research, I'm just parroting what I heard Japanese people say on the matter a few years ago

 

 

 

 

It's interesting because Christianity was dumped on the west too as an incomer. Northern Europe was largely pagan, with many Celtic and tribal cultures before Christianity ground its foot onto everyone's collective head. These cultures could be quite sophisticated and scholarly for their time (i.e. the Druids), allowing men and women equal importance and roles, taking care of their disabled, and treating same sex relations as they would heterosexual ones. The Icelandic Vikings had no specific laws against homosexuality and early Romans were tolerant of it. The major prejudice in the west appears to have bitten hard with the influx of Christianity. 

 

In terms of Asia I feel as if Japan could be the one to watch for implementing more LGBT rights, hopefully within the next decade. South Korea has an ageing population, so the old ways might hang on longer there? Unless someone with real clout stands up and shouts.

 

 

Interesting recent piece on President Moon by Robert E. Kelly, with a section on South Korean Gay rights:

 

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/south-koreas-first-human-rights-president

Edited October 15, 2018 by Bushi