Which male idols do you think are gay?

[seunghyun choi]

This isn't even gold... IT'S FUCKING PLATINUM

lol tao was like ewww but the greatest was kyungsoo meme face lol

[seunghyun choi]

unrelated

 

JungKook.exe  has stopped responding and has been forced to restart. Sorry about that error code: (BTS02152017) 
Please contact technical support at BigHit Entertainment should you encounter any further problems.

[seunghyun choi]

Honestly, the wet smack sound at 0:08 precisely does sound like a kiss, and neither Tae nor Hoseok are onscreen at that moment, but I still don't think they kissed. Like, they're not stupid enough to do that on live broadcast. And I also don't think they're dating or anything to actually do something like that. It's ridiculous, really. I find Vhope suspicious af but this is nothing. I see a lot of lame shit going around among BTS shippers these days.

 

I haven't seen anybody talking about how touchy Jihope are being lately? They're constantly hugging each other (the making videos too). Even in yesterday's concert they kept hugging. And let's not forget about how Hoseok kissed Jimin's head again on his recent birthday vlive, same as last year. They're just too much 

lol yes its a waterbottle thats a distinct sound of plastic i assume some people have never kissed anyone before because trust me it doesnt sound like that LOL

[seunghyun choi]

If any of the BTS members are gay, all the members already know tbh.

LOL TRUE i doubt any of them could hide anything from the rest of eachother even if they tried to lol

[seunghyun choi]

I'm late but:

 

I'm sure he did. I can't give specific names since honestly, IDK for sure myself, but I heard nice amount of talks about it. About him dating men, including male idols and so on. (I'm curious about the names myself lol). I mean if they guy is gay or bi/pan with preference for men... For sure there gonna be some more than one or two or three occasions. Even like, flings people have no idea about and so on. Since well, Idk if you know, the rumor mill, always, always focuses mostly on the "straight" stuff.

 

But Okay like, one name I can think of.... But don't take it seriously lol.  There was something circling around about him and Jackson LMAO. Probably. I really have no idea how true is that but I guess definitely possible, since they're sorta close and Jackson, well.... Doesn't seem straight. He also gave some strange answer  about his relationship with Sehun and It made me   .

 

Talking about  that Hawaii rumor though...... It really sounded kind of...   I don't know what to think about it tbh. I mean it sounds too much like fanfiction, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if it actually turned out to be real. 

Talking about the candidates - If I imagine this happening, It feels like it would be either Sehun or Suho. Leaning to the first one though. Since something makes me think that Suho wouldn't be that risky with such stuff.

 

I'm sure if any members in the group are LGBT, and if the members are close enough with each other Or live together, kind of "know" each other, the others probably would know. Even without direct confession, I guess?

 

Why Xiumin though? I'd say he's the last to know, since him and Sehun aren't really close. He also reacts weird on Sehun sometimes. Like it's awkward between them but it's just my thoughts lol. I'd say he would be the one to know thru someone else. I feel like Chen is that-one-straight-member-who-Knows-too-much since he almost outed Sehun on the radio Lmao. As a joke ......which went kinda far. He was with together with Xiumin tho. 

 

I'm sure everyone in EXO knows about non straight members of their group btw. I mean they live together etc.

Hmm the rumor  about him dating a non idol actually makes alot of logical sense, straight or gay it makes a shit ton of sense, for many reasons. One idols usually because of the busy life style they have, they dont get to enjoy much of what regular people take for granted, so having that gives them the luxury of some things they hardly get to partake in, also the most important thing about dating a non celebrity is anonymity, you can have important decisions or errands etc done by your spouse as fans and paparazzi wont know who this random person is at all so they wouldnt follow him, so this person can stealthy take care of business on your behalf including  risky business that can cause a scandal. And once people did notice you, the logical things everyone will think is this person is either A a friend of his or B a co worker be it staff from your company, new manager, etc etc. And if they see the two of you together alot in person everywhere you go, then you can easily drop the excuse that person A is my bodyguard, nobody will question it, plus the company would reinforce that statement. Anyone suggesting the two are dating would be seen as crazy by everyone and made out to be the bad person so nobody wants to be that person so they would stfu about the rumor, as nobody could prove it less you were in the room watching sex happen.

[seunghyun choi]

Yeah, exactly. But there lies that hypocrisy: male idol seen with a woman? Seen in the company and one of the peeps is a woman? The two are automatically dating, no other options. Two males acting weird etc? Shut it, it's just a friendship, nothing else is impossible. 

 

But also, it's definitely safer this way, isn't it? The plan works out.

 

That's why I said that rumor mill focuses mainly on the straight stuff. Since it's way more easier to pick up on it. Gay rumors are always sort of "in the shadow" because of such things. It's also something that considered "dangerous" and damaging. Especially when it comes to Korean society. Not everyone is open minded enough, not everyone is far from heteronormative.  And so on.

That's also how contradictory kind of rumors often start to circle around...When it comes to Sehun and maybe some others as well, it's something that I frequently come across.

yeah its alot easier to get away with if they are dating men as i mentioned before everyone will think the person is a friend or co worker etc where as they could literally walk by a woman on the street and people will be like holyshit hes dating this girl or idol of this etc etc, if they are within 1 mile of a woman automatic scandal even if he didnt even say anything to her lol. where as if they dated a guy psh nobody would know lol

[seunghyun choi]

I'm newish and it's obvious something changed between them. J-hope pushes V away a lot more than he used to and V sometimes sneaks glances at him, it's just weird to see after having having seen how they used to be.

 

 

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hmm i dont think its as big of a deal as people seem to make it out to be, They are family but people change,maybe he just doesnt like skinship as much as he used to, or maybe their personalities changed some, be it more mature or otherwise. This uneasy awkard ass feeling people are getting from them, is a thing we as human notice about situations that let you know something is off, but that can be proven wrong at times, what im saying is if this was a serious situation and you could tell that? then trust me the whole group would have seen 200000x more and saw it coming from 9billion miles away since they are the closest people to them and see them 24/7 theres no way you could miss it, that being said  if this was an issue im sure they would have gotten the two to get their shit together by now lol

[seunghyun choi]

??

Most of the time I see Jungkook acting gay is when he want to air hump his group members.

 

https://twitter.com/bangtongue/status/790519770193854465?s=09

https://vine.co/v/iOv3IEqHQTX

 

I think I have some picture of him doing it to taehyung and yoongi. He gets in back of them gets so close like sooo close.

Not to mention he always checks out Jimins butt. Idk if guys guy are bottoms only have a fixation with that part of the body, but he also like touching his hips and waist so idk sometimes it's not even for a hug.

He like to men handle Jimin alot and for me it's weird because Jimin is like older than him.

 

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doesnt matter if jimin is older than him lol thats one of the perks of being the strongest guy in your group you get to show off that strength by man handling everyone like childs toys LOL

[seunghyun choi]

I saw this today. What is this?!! 

I'm still not sure if JK is homosexually inclined, especially after watching those pics where he had a girl on his lap and then freaked out when he saw that (I'll add it in spoilers), but he's becoming more and more suspicious. Maybe he's bi/pan...Hmm...Looks like Jimin still has a crush on him though 

 

 

 

Coud be...but I wouldn't be surprised if she deliberately wrote that. Usually they say 35+, 40+, but now they've taken it to the 50s. 

LOL im sure it was done as a precaution probably saw the camera like oh shit instant scandal get off me!

[seunghyun choi]

https://instagram.com/p/BRD6TH-lavS/

 

wtf are they doing? lol  is this scene a police station cause random holding cell is random

[seunghyun choi]

https://68.media.tumblr.com/d43a0d30610823f74a98b8ccdfc0021b/tumblr_oi17x7iayh1qmzz57o7_r2_400.gif

wtf kookie? lol what are they teaching this boy, I think mistakes were made somewhere lol

[seunghyun choi]

What about jhope can you say the same thing about Jimin being compliant when he gets too close? I understand what you mean though. Maybe Jimin did want Jungkook to play with him but I doubt that he like being played a rag doll and with alot of intimacy.

 

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If this was an issue at all in anyway, You would never know about it, Because it would be a personal issue between the members, and as close as they are im sure if somebody had a problem it would have been discussed and handled by the people in question or by other members and if some fucking how they didnt solve it bighit would have solved it sooo drop the retarded assumptions, because if he didnt like jungkook messing with him you would see it. because he would have told him to fuck off,or if for some godforsaken reason he felt he couldnt say it to the man another member would have or bighit staff cause remember this is a job workplace harassment is a thing we have human resources dept for a reason LOL. But since NOTHING has happened or changed then obviously there is no problems.

[seunghyun choi]

Let's say that you are right. Even thought my point was not harassment but the difference of Jungkook liking to do that to Jimin not the other way around, and not just touching him because he likes to play with him only, but he genuinely likes him. Either way harassment has not even been properly address before, remember Jungkook and the manger situation. How things get out of control like how when Taehyung made Jimin fall playfully, he got mad but had to play it off because there where camaras. What you are saying is that am making assumptions based on nothing but I do take the time to see him as a person who make get his feelings hurt sometimes when Jungkook show him love that is not meant to mean anything except friendship, when it's so clear to me Jimin has a crush with him.

 

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lol wut? The manager thing totally not related and on that note what happened when that became an issue it got taken care of. And them in camera? LOL you do understand they are off camera more than on plus they live together as i said before if jimin had beef with kookie they would have handled it by now be it them other members or bighit sooo your argument is invalid. Unless you can provide 190% undeniable proof that these members personalities changed negatively towards eachother because that's what happens in the real world camera or not if somebody is screwing with you no amuof hiding it will work soo if this is so real sjow me proof 100%fact.

[seunghyun choi]

About that really long argument.

 

Serious sentiments:

 

I do believe Jimin is clearly not straight (everyone with an eye or two can see)

 

Regarding his dynamic with Kook, I think its quite an acceptable possibility that he may be the kind of person who likes getting handled/taken care of (I think we should never rule out possibilities of that).

 

With Jungkook and his sexuality, its definitely confusing. Maybe he's straight or maybe still going through the 'finding himself/confused' phase or he's just really not straight and shows no signs of it.

 

But really it could be anything.

 

One thing for sure tho is Jimin can never be as Straight as a ruler (Taehyung, maybe but nah)

For Jimin and Jungkook the sexuality isnt confusing really. You see we as humans often have an affinity to the people we like the most, you may have heard people say id go gay for x person that could be the same situation, may love women marry women but only 1 guy could get him to go gay for that one person only.

[seunghyun choi]

Ok, so I don't have any primary evidence gathered right now but this is the only time I can post for a few days so please, anyone challenge me wherever you see fit:

 

I don't think I need to challenge anyone on the fact that Bang PD is pretty gay (but please tell me if you disagree). After he broke off from JYP and created BigHit, the first group they debuted was GLAM. If you have not heard their debut song "XXO" please do, it is gay af and that is not exaggeration, it is explicitly and unarguably about same sex attraction. Rap Monster has writing credits on this song and he is hailed as the "inspiration of BTS." He was the only one left of the male trainees chosen to debut and the group was formed around him. He has a high IQ and ranking in the Korean school system as well as a noted interest in social issues. We know that BTS has a "mission" of addressing societal issues and inequality. My belief is that BTS was formed with the idea of queer discrimination, as well as other youth-related issues at the forefront.

 

My reasons supporting this include the obvious message of general social change and the occasional, subtle support of the LGBTQ community, but I feel like they are gearing up for something more daring recently. They have been putting an emphasis on songs of "healing" and emphasizing the sentiment that BTS and their fans stand together as one. In their latest album, You Never Walk Alone especially, there is a theme of gearing up to fight back against society and fear. The fear part intrigues me the most. It appears as a major theme in 3 of the 4 new songs on YNWA and seriously suggests that this fight against society is something that can be scary and dangerous (so, more serious than speaking against the education system). By writing and promoting a "fight song" with Not Today and a song of comfort with SS: YNWA, I think they are preparing their fans to take their side in a move that may prove to be career-inhibitingly controversial. But only time will tell here, it likely won't happen until next year, when the tour is well over.

 

Also, I think that their one era of very seriously gendered and sexist music was right after N.O. was somewhat a flop compared to their previous singles and they were desperate for mainstream recognition. The only recent song of theirs with any gendering is a girl-power song and I feel like this is their preferred style. 

Caveats to this theory: Mostly issues with recruiting. How could they convince artists to sign up for a group with a queer mission without blacklisting themselves? I'm not totally sure since I don't know anything about the music industry. The only thoughts I can offer here is that the youngest members all have alternate reasons why they joined BigHit and the others don't: JK admired RM's rapping and joined because of him, Taehyung accompanied a friend to the audition and was encouraged to audition as well by the staff there, Jimin had no other offers. I do believe that JK would have had something of a fix on his sexuality by the time he was recruited, but the question is whether or not he would join this group knowing their mission at such a young age.

 

 

As anecdotal evidence, my brother has an extremely similar personality to JK so I think it's very possible that he would agree to support a queer message years before he would accept it within himself (as I've seen other people here mention with regards to RM).

 

BTS fight against society etc will probably be something against the government since it has been very instrumental in the meddling of social growth as well as blacklisting other people for their opinions ie sewol tragedy had park still beenn in office bts and bighit would be blacklisted for supporting the families of the tragedy and put on s government watch list since the blacklist was exsposed and her officially impeached yesterday thing's have changed people can be bold now against the state

[seunghyun choi]

Under spoiler bc OT but Dispatch revealed the couple and ofc it's hetero

 

Click here to view the Tweet

 

ofcourse they bullshit, dispatch will never ever know if there was a gay couple because, they cant prove it unless the people were having sex in front of a camera. Think about it. Gay idol relationships are perfectly invisible, why? Because close friends,skinship is the norm here, on top of fanservice etc, you would never know they were gay unless you were in their dorms with them. This woukd be the so called perfect crime lol. Anytime people see two guys on a date together they think, friends,family, co worker, or secuity guard,manager, business collaboration. So any thought of a relationship goes under the radar unless some idol comes out and says it or you catch them fucking

[seunghyun choi]

Yeah but I think a kiss would be a enough proof.

 

 

Taehyung, can you just notice him already!

 

Edit: I noticed he is acting weird around Bts, when Jin told him something he was about to dying.(very shy lol) Also when Mamamoo covered his own song, he didn't even reacted. But when they covered Dna he smiled so brightly.

but a kiss is also apart of skinship here in korea yes guys do kiss eachother that are straight But if an idol was gay why would they kiss in public? Yea they wouldn't like i said theres no way they could know anyone was gay unless they came out or caught them in the do

[seunghyun choi]

I knew someone would comeback with that lol

 

Why, after years of being in this self-censoring gaybait business, would Hoseok be dumb enough to genuinely think vkook would make out or go too far on stage with millions of eyes and cameras on them? Again, he's been one inch from kissing Jimin several times, so to "go too far" would have to be pretty gd far. You can do anything with another member and never be suspected, from love ballads to nipple play. If vkook were together, I don't think anyone in the know would be worried that love-blinded fan girls would be able to pick up on the 'realness' of a moment that reads as standard fan service to everyone who doesn't ship it

 

Btw I sound harsh but I'm not trying to be. Just serving the ball back to you. In my mind, regardless of inside disagreements, we're all on the same side if we're suspecting idols of being lgbt

this is very true none of these fans would know if the antics were real love or just fan service.kinda hilarious to think i could get away with acting gay with other dudes and nobody really suspecting anything and doing it openly too lmao, as a man i find this fucking hilarious. But yeah only way fans will know if the bts members liked eachother is if somehow a sex tape of them fucking came up thats the only way they could say ok they are gay

[seunghyun choi]

As a gay Asian man, I’m going to put my perspective into this. I can only speak upon BTS because they’re the only boy group that I religiously follow (I’m mainly into girl groups).

 

I think that it’s safe to say that Taehyung, Jungkook, Jimin, RM and Jin are definitely in LGBT+ community. But I will say that I don’t think any of them are actually dating irl. Just my opinion, thank you.

 

Reason why I say this? Because as someone who is closeted, I am extremely close to my other guys friends who are also gay. We are so close that sometimes people think we’re dating. We cuddle a lot when sleeping, we play with each other’s hands and nails, we grab each other’s groins and breasts, we flirt with each other heavily and the list goes on. Every time someone suspects us of dating, we immediately laugh our asses off and then cringe afterwards.

 

Usually the guys who are gay whom begin catching feelings, are the ones who don’t want to be touchy touchy because they’re shy or don’t want to lead themselves on.

 

I can vouch based off of my own experiences that Taehyung and Jungkook probably aren’t dating, and that they’re just extremely close LGBT+ friends, who are extremely close. From my observations, I think one of the more reserved LGBT+ individuals in the group caught feelings for Taehyung, specifically maybe RM. However the feelings were not reciprocal. But that’s another theory, something way tangent from my point.

 

As a gay, my friends (who are also gay) have a relationship with me just like what TaeKook shares. However we are not dating. And often we get annoyed that people think we are dating simply because we are close, and gay.

 

Nonetheless if I am wrong, and TaeKook is real, that’s also wonderful and I’m truly blessed to be living in a time where Idols of the same sex are dating.

my thoughts exactly im a gay guy from Korea. To add on what you said about laughing and cringing, doesn't it come from the fact you are too close right? I always thought people like bts would never date one another because they are too close, it would be like dating your own family like doing ur brother so u cringe when people say ur dating and ur like eww noo. I always thought it would be rude to assume that they dated or told them that as wouldn't be kinda offensive if someone asked if you date your brother? You'd be like wtf man thats disgusting eww, that's how id feel knowing people this close like bts

[seunghyun choi]

burntgucci summed up some differences, but even if they hadn't and those differences didn't exist, two wrong would never make a right anyway. It's a moot point as far as I'm concerned because it still wouldn't make Taeil's actions acceptable.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally wasn't making a statement on whether or not Winwin likes or dislikes Taeil/feels comfortable or uncomfortable around him in general, because I don't think it alters the main point in any way, shape, or form: Winwin is uncomfortable with the type of physical contact from Taeil like we saw in that video. That in and of itself is enough for us to be calling it out.

 

This isn't a movie. This isn't about "villains" or "bad guys". We're discussing one person making it clear that they aren't comfortable with certain types of physical contact and another persisting with said forms of physical contact. That's the extent of it.

 

Bluntly, one of the main reasons fandom culture can be so toxic is this sort of kneejerk reaction. It's not helpful. No one is saying Taeil is a horrible monster condemned to hell forever. We're calling out very specific problematic behavior he has engaged in. There's literally no point in being overly defensive because Winwin already made it clear he was not comfortable. Defensiveness isn't going to change that, so let's move on from that step: The idols we like should be the ones we're most comfortable holding accountable. It's BECAUSE we like and respect them that we should want them to do better.

 

Can we please stop saying "if"? He's already made it clear multiple times, including outright LEAPING AWAY in the video in question. There isn't an "if" here. He already tried to put a stop to it, yet Taeil has persisted. This is veering dangerously close to disingenuous territory.

dont jump the gun and cause trouble for the group calling out something that might not be an issue. You fangirls do not know wtf happens with those guys behind closed doors dont just assume anything. If he has a problem with another member touching him he can deal with it himself he doesn't need you trying to handle it. As a man we have ways to fix this a serious talk with the friend whos playing too much. We can always resort to fighting aswell. But more importantly these guys are apart of an idol group, belong to company and are adults, if this is a problem it would be handled officially behind closed doors. He can always get that member reprimanded for crossing boundaries they do have an agency they are employed by,they have a human resources department just like any job lodging a complaint as an idol to your agency be it jyp yg etc it will be taken seriously and the matter handled like any other job, he could legit tell their manager or walk into the company hq and speak or call HR.Besides harrassment etc issues are serious and traumatic their business doesn't need to be blasted all over the internet like you guys always do. This matter should be handled carefully like a surgeon not hammered out with a hammer.

[seunghyun choi]

Because most of what was posted here is flimsy. It almost comes off as gossip-y to me the way people are compiling all these evidences, I don't see how people don't think this is weird.

 

I'm not talking about what win win himself said about this issue, if he said he's uncomfortable them taeil should take him seriously and leave him alone.

Absolutely right most of what's posted is flimsy evidence at best, and 99% of the time these fans have no idea the people's relationships etc behind closed doors or what actions etc those people involved wish to take, as i said before this guy doesn't need you blowing up his situation or doing it for him. And to the person who said SM wouldn't do anything if he went to HR is an idiot do you know how screwed they'd be if they were sued for such? And if it was revealed the HR willingly ignore its own employees that would end SM ent not just because of regular staff leaving or protests but Also massive class action lawsuits and the image tanking investors would pull out plus this would have a darker impact on the company, it wasn't a full year ago that agency had employees commit suicide, now let that sink in if they ignored that, losing an idol costs more money than dealing with whatever problem so yeah HR would listen to them.

[seunghyun choi]

I mean, just imo but...if HR was doing such a great job the thing wouldn't still be a happenin'.

if he reported it HR it would not be happening. Here's the thing the HR dept can't read ur fucking mind you have to tell them you have a problem they can't expect it and act on your behalf,so you must tell them

[seunghyun choi]

This is the most wonderful Got7 post I've ever seen in my life. I still lean towards gay with Mark, but I agree completely with just about everything else.

 

Especially Jackson. My God, that boy is so bi or pansexual that I can't even deal with him sometimes.

Jinyoung reminds me of myself in regards to the performance that some could have seen as stiff or unprofessional. Im not a very affectionate Korean man myself, I only show that to people i actually care about. Even if its for a dance or acting I can't bring myself to fake emotions it just doesn't work, I'm thinking he might be the same, as to why he seemed totally disinterested in the collab with the female artists on stage.

[seunghyun choi]

Yeah that's reasonable and I did consider it. The performance was quite raunchy for kpop standards especially considering the lyrics, and he might just have hated the whole concept. He was more relaxed in a sillier dance cover with Blackpink's Jisoo, but he was pretty awkward in that as well. He's a dancer though and a good actor so his complete coldness surprised me a bit. Just thought of the Who's your Mama performance when I started wondering whether I've ever seen him attracted to a woman and couldn't really think of anything specific, and the examples I do remember are stiff. He might be really guarded and private, but he has plenty of moments with men.

those moments with men make sense, as its usually all people he knows personally and care for deeply

[seunghyun choi]

Aww Minhyun is the fanboy of DBSK. He really knows quality when he sees it.

 

Ongniel?

Hmm I don't know, I personally think they're just mates- though I did write about my hunch of Daniel not being 100% straight honestly I still on the fence about him most of the time. I did see him as someone who wouldn't care about gender or sexuality if he likes someone- he strikes me as open-minded kind of person so if he likes you, he likes you.

I'm on the fence about Ong- but indeed the story about him from his classmate seems suspicious- though I wouldn't bank on it much- a lot of asian kids are used to never date until high school or in some cases until HS graduation- especially when they have strict parents who forbid dating for the sake of focusing to school grades. Especially if the kids are book-smart types, or champions in several activities like piano or ballet or sports, or they enrolled to prestigious private schools where tuition can be sky high and competitions for school ranks almost the same with national final exam ranks. Or sometimes, some asian parents just forbid dating until the kids turn 18.

But I think their ship is kinda one of the most popular in that fandom yeah.

 

The bolded part delivers what I could never convey articulately all these times.

This is why I'm extremely skeptic about the videos or photos of any skinships shown by idols on cams.

For the international fans, there may be some hopes for at least some genuine or sincere acts captured on cam.

But I personally can't really trust these interactions 100%, especially since idol trainee in places like Korea or Japan really taught everything from the way they act to the way they interact, and they are very serious about it. It won't surprise me if some seemingly apparent personalities also scripted.

It may be unbelievable, but idols or even actors/musicians rarely have any freedom to even act spontaneous even in variety shows, where everything is scripted to death(I was told once by a Japanese friend that in typical Japanese variety shows even the random jokes or funny quips are scripted, right to the laughter parts too) and only on some rare occasions they deviate a bit from the scripts, but maybe that'd only be allowed if you're a big star or a senior MC like Yoo Jaesuk.

And don't even start about the fan-captured interactions on award shows or any music shows- I'm skeptic about the fanservice-y interactions too esp when it comes to ships- idols are not living under rocks, sometimes even their agencies made them aware which ships are popular and maybe they even told these idol pairs to do some lovey-dovey skinships as fanservice. Ofcourse an idol can do several fanservice with several people, can't feed just one ship after all.

 

So anyway, after living in Asia for so long and spending my time here, I also have come to realization that for these asian idols- be it Japanese or Korans or even Chinese or Thai- gay-baiting fanservice is like the real-life version of yaoi anime and manga. Think of it as roleplaying the yaoi anime&Manga by real people.

It's made to be consumed by shippers, and their shippers are mostly female yes.

yes true most of this stuff is FAKE im from Korea im a gay Korean man but let's be real the idol industry is a billion dollar a year industry and companies often control or have a very huge guiding hand in EVERYTHING an idol does or say. Sure there are some genuine moments and idols out there but deciphering that from the robot control puppet system that is the idol industry as a whole is very difficult. A fan telling a real moment from a fake one at any official event is a 50/50 those are not good odds to bet on.