Which male idols do you think are gay?

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New member here In regards to Sehun, I would just like to point to Ricky Martin, Wentworth Miller, Colton Haynes, Clay Aiken, Brian J Smith and Matt Dallas to name just a few guys who denied being gay(including being quite homophobic whilst doing so) before coming out. So I don’t think we can say this means Sehun isn’t gay like it’s a fact and people don’t lie. We are all different. Some ignore it, some deny it. Maybe he is bi? It seems clear to me that he isn’t straight based on things him and his members have said. People may do fan service but they aren’t actually going to want fans to think they are gay if they are not(or if they are). It reminds me of people saying Heechul was pretending to be gay after the whole Momo thing. Makes no sense. What would any idol gain? There are no out idols with companies for a reason. Again, Heechul may well be 100% genuine with Momo but it is weird to me that people ignore all his behaviour over years.

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Don’t see why I was clowned. Guess some people just clown anything! Point us, many idols won’t be straight but they aren’t gonna come out. People are still closeted in far more advanced countries. I’m not saying Heechul is gay but many Koreans are gonna pretend to be straight when they are, famous or not. Companies may encourage fan service but they don’t want people to actually think the idols are gay. Otherwise they wouldn’t have to be closeted. Also, doing fan service doesn’t mean you are straight. Some gay/bi idols won’t enjoy it, some will have fun with it and enjoy flirting in a “safe” way. And some fans will never accept idols being gay and only enjoy it in fan service. 

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How closeted people act greatly differs from person to person. We know that idols aren’t gonna come out and say it but some give hints, some share a love of lgbt media(including obscure stuff) and some don’t. Some will enjoy fan service, some won’t. 

I know there have been a few idols who have come out after leaving the business. Do you think many others will follow suit? I can imagine a few doing it but also think many will stay closeted forever, due to the general societal view and family etc. Some may even marry members of the opposite sex to please people. After all, that does happen. 

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Whilst I agree that we can’t say that idols denying they are gay must be lying, I don’t think we can compare people who question it to fans who insist no one on k pop is gay. That is just ridiculous and delusional whereas unfortunately some(not all) gay men in Korea are going to pretend to be gay/settle down with women due to society, family, careers etc.

Also, on the subject of stereotypes- I agree that many people don’t fit certain stereotypes and people shouldn’t stick to them so firmly but also some people do fit certain stereotypes and that doesn’t have to be a negative thing. 

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2 hours ago, Eremit said:

I do feel there's often a bit of a "there can be only one" mentality, so people feel it's less likely that X is gay if Y is also gay. Statistically speaking lol. So they prefer to see the others as straight. That said, if I want to make myself very unpopular here I think they might very well both be straight. Neither really pings for me tbh. Most receipts for them are Taehyung sharing LGBT content (he could just be an ally) and Jimin's idol image (it could be just that, his image). Call me when they are caught at a gay club!

But I still like seeing evidence of them supporting LGBT here, it makes me feel happy as a fan. I don't mind other receipts either, as long as they're not about ships. And who knows, really? maybe we'll find out one day, maybe not.

I find it weird when people say there can only be one in a group like statistics work that way. The statistics(which we will never know the exact amount of lgbt people) are just general. I have been in groups where I am the only gay one and groups where there is just one of us that is straight. It really depends. 

With Tae, it’s the fact that a lot of the content he is interested in and shares is quite obscure and lgbt people are more likely to seek out that content. I don’t think they are gonna get caught in gay clubs so we can only go on clues and sometimes our feelings, whether they are right or wrong. 

I remember an ex member of crayon pop saying there is an app which gay idols use and that there is more people than some would think including actors and people from other sectors of the entertainment industry. I wish it was easier for lgbt people in korea(and everywhere) but I don’t expect big changes any time soon. 

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On 2/23/2021 at 9:27 PM, desiyu said:

about stigma

My theory about Stigma, well its nothing sexual

stigmata: bodily marks or pains resembling the wounds of the crucified Jesus and sometimes accompanying religious ecstasy

Taehyung "Stigma is abt hurting.When I started creating it i wanted it to be abt being cut over & over again.I wanted ARMY to feel my hurting?In MVs I’m shown as a person who’s hurt,but it hurts so much that i become someone who enjoys that pain"
https://t.co/YzsTidMdVw

 

Who said Stigma was sexual? There is a Stigma against LGBT people. The lyrics could fit with feeling shame over sexuality. Tae has also never spoken about what the song is really about. It could well be about something else but it could also definitely be about being gay/bi and all the emotions that brings up. Either way, lots of LGBT fans relate to it. 

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I think it is important for people to accept that we won’t all agree but we can be respectful. There are some idols who are as open as they can be/give hints to being gay/bi  but there is only so far they can go.

Obviously there are degrees. If I see a post that is gearing up to be “Oppa can’t be gay because I love him”,”no one is gay” etc and general homophobic, biphobic offensive BS then I just skip it lol. Best way to not be upset by people. Why is it so threatening to people that some idols aren’t straight?! 

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8 hours ago, flower shower said:

I forgot to mention the most telling clue, cuffing his jeans (bi culture). Unless he didn't know, which is unlikely given how invested he is in the culture, he's definitely not just an ally. Felix bi.

While I don't doubt there are straight idols who queerbait on purpose or are genuinely supportive, it's not like lgbtq+ idols can be open about their sexuality, so it shouldn't be overlooked that some take advantage of the situation where as long as they don't come out, no matter how obvious they make it, they're fine, "protected" in a way by the heteronormativity of it all. Jo Kwon, Ren and Woonggi are perfect examples of this. Idols can leave hints for the lgbtq+ community to pick up on and then just claim they're straight for everyone else and they'll be "absolved".

This is very true. Some idols definitely give hints and even say things that make it quite clear but fans will still believe they are straight unless they outright say I am gay/bi etc which obviously they won’t. It must be very weird for lgbt idols that a lot of  fans love seeing them flirt/play around with each other but would hate for them to actually be a part of the lgbt community. Can you imagine an idol coming out any time soon? Not to mention, we have no idea if they could ever come out to family etc. We all know companies wouldn’t take Holland on because he didn’t want to hide that part of himself. Not to mention the homophobic comments him and his fans had to deal with. I’m sure some companies know the sexuality of their idols and don’t care as long as they keep it hidden. They want fans to enjoy the fansevice but they most definitely don’t want fans to actually consider the fact that some of their crushes/ idols will actually be gay or bi etc. 

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2 hours ago, flower shower said:

Not sure if this was a rhetorical question, but here's my train of thought you triggered.

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So far, some former trainees and former nugu idols have come out. None of them are relevant enough to make an impact, but I guess it's a start? There are many well known idols I'm sure are lgbt, but there's no telling when they'll come out if ever. Things seem to be progressing (lgbtq+ rights are addressed more often and there's lgbtq+ representation in mainstream Korean TV shows), yet stagnating at the same time (not even heterosexual dating between idols is normalised).

Ain't gonna lie, at some point I naively expected members of Imfact to come out and even thought it wouldn't be too unrealistic. If they can tease each other about their interest in men, it's safe to say they aren't closeted (unless this is a case of some top-notch queerbaiting). And let's be honest, their idol career never took off, so they didn't have much to lose to begin with (hell, maybe they could've even benefitted from coming out?), but if even they, as irrelevant as they are to the general public, fear the scrutiny, what to expect of bigger groups?

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Take Jo Kwon and Sehun for example. Jo Kwon has done everything he could to indicate it without openly saying it. One would think nobody would be surprised if he came out, but he's recently denied the rumours and netizens ate it up. Sehun was literally outed by Chen on a radio (albeit against his will, but he joked about it himself too) and denied the rumour on an IG live when he didn't have to address it (he might be bi well, not according to Chen, but what does Chen know? but still). Makes one think neither of them have the intention of coming out. Of course, idols are pressured by their agencies and don't have much freedom in general ("It's all about the image"), but do they even want to come out themselves? Their careers are at stake. Maybe they just value their privacy and want to live comfortably without being a spokesperson for the community. After all, they don't owe it to anyone. But some still do what they can.

Nobody wants to carry the torch because there's no telling how it would be received, although I believe a member of BTS, despite all the rabid fangirls, could survive coming out (a large percentage of K-pop fans seem to be lgbtq+ and there's even this strange phenomenon where some straight fangirls seem to wish their faves were gay (you know, the ones who insist they're bottom), usually those of androgynous idols who are pushed into pairings, which makes me think they aren't attracted to them, but relate to them), but chances are he'd be shunned because he'd no longer be the nation's pride. However, I think that in BTS' case, Koreans' reaction would depend a lot on the international reaction.

In conclusion, aka TLDR,  I have no idea. I do have an impression that many younger idols are doing what their predecessors didn't, but we seem to be stuck in a dreading cycle where they're just leaving crumbs and nothing is certain and there's always "what if" and there's no telling for how long it will go on. It's really frustrating. Idols who are usually suspected could be straight, idols who tend to be overlooked could be lgbt. At the end of the day, we can't read anyone's mind. Nobody's doing science here, it's all just speculations and receipts are interpreted in different ways. On top of it all, there are cultural and language barriers, which is why I'm interested in what Koreans have to say, but even their word may not be reliable. For all we know, we might be on the lookout for the wrong people.

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Regarding fangirls, this might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think their negative reaction would necessarily be related to homophobia. I think the same fangirls who would throw a tantrum over their fave being gay are the jealous and possessive fangirls who would throw a tantrum over their fave publicly dating the opposite sex. I don't doubt that some straight fangirls would lose interest because they would no longer feel like the target audience and maybe even feel "exploited" in a way and thus resentful, but I don't think it's (just) homophobia. The problem lies deeper.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly don’t think all fan girls are homophobic but there are a lot who ship idols and then get really defensive and angry when you suggest their fave could be gay or bi. It’s very strange. Of course they get upset if their fave dates a girl but that’s not because it is a girl, it’s because they want it to be them. It’s very different for gay idols and it bugs me when people act like it isn't(not you btw)  Fans may get pathetic when male and female idols date each other/ none famous people but they don’t have to hide who they are and they still get a lot of support. I honestly can’t see an idol surviving coming out, even a member of BTS though they would generally get more acceptance from certain international audiences. Korea has such a long way to go and even some Hollywood actors/singers etc are still closeted. Famous people have the added pressure of fame, as well as family, society reaction etc.  It’s such a tough thing. I hope I am wrong but the hate Holland and his fans got was awful and he wasn’t a very well known idol from a company. 

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10 hours ago, flower shower said:

This is unrelated to our original discourse about the possibility of idols coming out and its consequences as everything is up in the air and I have nothing to add to what either of us said, but I had an impression there might be confusion regarding what I said about fans, so I feel the need to clear it up.

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I might be straying off topic now, but when I said the problem lies deeper, I meant to say the problem is that idols aren't marketed as musicians or artists, but as personas. Fans fall for projections and what they project onto idols is ultimately what they need from them. Once that projection is disrupted, they have no use of it. Why do so many fans stan idols even before they release music or any content? Because they don't care about their talent or artistry or even personality. That's why I think the problem with idols coming out is more general than homophobia. The way I see it, idols are barely seen as people but as products and even fans treat them that way. The popularity of ships and fics confirms this for me even though it's far from being the only manifestation of it (different people objectify idols in different ways). I'm aware it's not exclusive to idols, but it's nowhere just as prevalent. I'm not questioning the morality of RPF (this is a topic for another discussion, which I personally don't want to have). My point is that fans see idols as characters to play with and that the way idols are marketed is its own problem.

In no way did I mean to say that it's just as hard for idols to date the opposite sex as it is to come out, which unfortunately seems to be what came across, but that fans don't have to be homophobic to react negatively to their illusion shattering. I know homophobes who like Queen because they care about their music, not Freddie Mercury's personal life. With idols, it's a different story because the industry is built upon PARASOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS. When it comes to American pop artists, although they have hardcore fans as well, most people are just casual listeners and may not even know who's come out nor do they care, regardless of how they feel about the lgbtq+ community. With idol groups, casual listeners are a rarity, especially in Korea, where most fans are dedicated to only one group, follow idols 24/7 and feel like they know them personally. We have to understand why people are into idol groups in the first place. It's not brainless fun for everyone. Emotionally vulnerable people prone to obsessions fall down the rabbit hole without realising it. Just how many people have complained about stan culture affecting their mental health?

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Our opinions aren't mutually exclusive and I don't disagree with anything you said, but I feel like you misunderstood my point. We're focusing on different aspects, you on homophobia and the hypocrisy, me on parasocial relationships, which I believe are a serious problem and further complicate the matter.

All that said, do you think it would be more realistic to expect other Korean celebrities (non-idols) to start coming out because they're viewed differently? Or is it even harder for them because they depend on the domestic market while idols have great international fanbases and lgbt following? There's that one trot singer who's come out recently and most Korean celebrities who are out aren't idols, but I don't know how popular they are in their home country. Do you think that one industry is more likely to trigger a change?

Thanks for the response. I completely see where you are coming from. I didn’t mean to imply that you were downplaying the homophobia or anything like that. Sorry if it came across that way. It’s nice to be able to have a civil discussion

I would think that it would be more likely for non idols to come out. I just can’t see an idol risking their career like that, not to mention how it could affect their band mates as well. I think it is definitely something that will take a lot of time. Maybe some might be inspired by others who have come out but I think most are still too scared. I do think it is more likely to happen outside the k pop world. 

k pop 

[MotorHome]

Are there’s any boy group or solo songs that you feel are LGBT related based on the lyrics? 

[MotorHome]

Obviously liking certain music doesn’t mean you are LGBT but it is true that a lot of people within the community seek out certain media and content. Yes Korea is not the same as other countries but LGBT people everywhere seek out LGBT related content including stuff that most straight people aren’t aware of. 

[MotorHome]

5 hours ago, hahalol said:

han seungwoo?

 

he is so touchy especially with jaehwan

 

but i hope my lovely seungwoo is not gay

Why would you hope he isn’t gay? There is nothing wrong with being gay and if you think there is, this thread is not for you. It always amazes me when people get upset that someone they think is hot is gay or could be gay. Chances of you meeting and falling in love is extremely slim even if they aren’t gay. You can still look  

[MotorHome]

Do you think most gay/bi idols would be out to their bandmates(obviously there can be more than one in a group) or not? Or do you think some of them are still closeted to each other? 

[MotorHome]

It can be really hard to ignore the random downvoting and bigoted posters/oppa can’t be gay BS so I understand the frustration. I know I don’t always manage but it’s best to try and ignore these people and leave them to their pettiness and idiocy. 

[MotorHome]

I don’t think it is fair to say that any instance of closeness between members is inorganic and that idols are made to do it. I’m not saying they aren’t encouraged to play it up but also some people are naturally affectionate with people and will enjoy the fan service(regardless of their sexuality).

Also, it has been made clear by past idols that plenty of idols are part of the community so the idea that most of them are made to show support or don’t know what the pride flag is is not likely. I don’t doubt that there are bigoted idols and ignorant ones but I think plenty of idols who have shown support are genuine(whether just allies or part of the community themselves). Living in a certain country doesn’t mean you necessarily have no awareness of these things and there are LGBT people all over. Some fans act like there are only a handful of LGBT idols and the rest must be ultra conservative and against it. There are always more progressive people in even the most conservative of societies. 

 

 

[MotorHome]

Unless an idol actually says the words “I’m gay” etc then they can do pretty much anything and loads of people won’t consider them being anything other than straight. So why would that stop a gay idol doing fan service when it is so normal? As I have said before, it is so personal as well. Some will enjoy fan service, some wont. Some will be bolder than others but it doesn’t mean they definitely are or definitely aren’t a part of the community. Also, not everything can be explained away as “they are just Korean” lol. There may be certain differences but lgbt people exist everywhere and some of them will have the same traits. 

[MotorHome]

Isnt that the entire KPOP industry? 

They make money promoting using gay esthetics and culture, which is one of the reasons why so many gay men are interested in KPOP and why madonna/lady Gaga are so popular. All of them use queer culture to certain degree and use queerbating as well.

 

Well no because some of them aren’t heterosexuals. They may do fan service etc but that doesn’t change the fact that some of them are in the community but can’t actually come out and say it without serious consequences.

there are videos out there are former idols talking about the community within Kpop and it’s not only a handful of people. We will never know the exact amount(or the amount of the population in any country, particularly conservative ones where many lgbt people will never come out and lots of gay men/lesbians will marry the opposite gender) but it clearly isn’t as small as some people seem to think. 

[MotorHome]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:23 PM, Dont mind me said:

I think you misread the original post. They were referring to being tired of queerbating in kpop while they might be straight. And I was saying that the entire kpop is based on fanservice, so it is a but much to be sick of it. 

That there are gay idols doing fanservice, that is given. Examples key/ten/jimin, I guess some of them are okay with it even though they're suspected to be gay or bi. 

 

Ahh ok, I may have misunderstood then. I guess I am just so used to some fans explaining any possible non straight sign away as fan service, a joke or cultural differences lol. 

[MotorHome]

7 hours ago, mari0408 said:

it’s the heechul/momo-gate effect i fear. a once highly suspected gay person turns out to be (seemingly) straight, now everyone is fair game. if heechul was lying and stirring up gay rumors to get girls, who’s to say all the other usual suspects aren’t as well? (is the way of thinking im guessing) and thinking any male idol is gay after makes you look like a clown to these people. 

It is ridiculous isn't it?! Even if Heechul is actually straight, it doesn't change the fact that many idols will be gay and bi and doesn't mean other highly suspected idols are actually straight. That would leave no one! People out there really thinking none of their "oppos" or "unnies" are lgbt lol. The whole "Heechul pretended to be gay o get girls" thing is BS too. Is that why he always made comments about Sohee etc.  Other idols have talked about non straight people in the industry. There are thousands of idols, it is impossible for there not to be lgbt idols etc. Sometimes if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it is a duck!  Look at people in Hollywood who were suspected and did come out eventually. There were always loads of fans insisting they were straight because they said they were etc.Bi men in a relationship are still bi. Many gay men are in relationships with women due to family, societal, religious, career pressure too, especially in more generally phobic countries. Of course you should never push and try and get someone to come out. Everyone has their reasons not to and we all know it is highly unlikely anyone in Kpop will come out any time soon. The most some do is make it as obvious as possible without actually saying the words "I'm gay", "I'm bi" etc.

[MotorHome]

Regarding the "weird skinship" comments, we have to remember that he could have said that to stop people from speculating. I don't know what his or xiumin's sexuality is but they aren't exactly going to say if they are gay or bi. Lots of gay/bi people say things like that when closeted/ to stop people thinking they aren't straight. 

Also, the shipping/BL stuff is very odd. The amount of people who ship and then go mad when it is actually suggested the people they are shipping could actually be gay or bi is wild. It's either that or they would only accept them with the other person they ship them with. But not if it was too sexual for some of them lol. 

[MotorHome]

23 hours ago, joonsoulie said:

Not to rag on you further but, kpop fans make memes about any and every idol they can think of being gay. Maybe because they're queer and want to feel better about stanning a straight guy or they want representation, or they're straight and trying convince themselves other girls aren't a threat. And 90% of those "allegations" are based on fanservice, so I really wouldn't rely on fanmade memes as indicators of sexuality 

A lot of the "X is so gay" memes and things are jokes though. We've seen time and time again that fans will make jokes like that and then lose it when you suggest the idol could be gay/bi etc. Also, there may be some fangirls who would prefer idols to be gay than straight cos it "explains" why they couldn't have them but that isn't the case for most of them. The amount of times people just dismiss the possibility and act like it is an insult is proof of that.

Also, this thread has always had "they are all straight" trolls but it is really going through a stage right now I'm not talking about saying you think an idol is bi and not gay or even saying you think someone is straight but posting video after video of a guy looking at a woman as "proof" and saying it about literally any idol is.... A choice. 

[MotorHome]

40 minutes ago, peach0827 said:

when calling someone straight is considered an insult in this thread

I hope this is a joke. No one acts like being straight is a bad thing or an insult, unlike all the idiots who come here just to “declare” that their precious oppas can’t be gay or bi. This thread is getting worse and worse for that. No one is saying you can’t genuinely think someone is straight but people will say it about literally anyone and act like lgbt idols don’t exist which is flat out absurd. They don’t have to worry, no one will be coming out anytime soon. How they love that.

[MotorHome]

37 minutes ago, Shinki said:

who absolutelly did that in the last 20 pages

There has been people coming into the thread to just state that BTS are straight and people trying to prove how turned on someone was by a girl. Don't act like people don't dismiss gay and bi idols all the time. Even on this thread which is literally about idols you think are LGBT. 

[MotorHome]

On 12/4/2021 at 12:41 AM, sureyeahiguess said:

Girly is that not enough? Anyways, here's a link with various receipts 

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/k-pop/article/3108199/how-nuests-ren-challenging-k-pop-gender-norms-androgynous

Played a gay role in a musical, enjoys doing his own makeup, doesn't shy away from putting on women's clothes or doing drag,  etc. etc. Watch any interview with him and if you're gay or have any familiarity with the gay community he should ping for you immediately.

 

Also he is now playing the role of Hedwig from Hedwig and the Angry Inch

https://www.instagram.com/p/CV2ZIAmvZvS/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

 

 

Can straight men like Lady GaGa? Yes. But sometimes the picture is just there and people just won't accept it. It's not a negative thing to point out that there is a certain level of flamboyance that some gay men have but some people see it that way. That's not to say that straight men can't be camp but sometimes it obvious without the person actually saying the words. It's like the actor Julian Morris. He has fangirls denying it and acting like it was wishful thinking but he was pretty much glass closeted so it's nothing new to a lot of people. 

Also, with regards to people saying they are straight, taking about opposite gender etc- most idols have made a comment here and there, are we supposed to ignore other stuff because of it? Even people like Jo Kwon who is as out as he can be. Funny how people say you can't believe everything idols say but take it at face value when it comes to being straight, even though it is LGBT people who have to hide. How many western singers/actors/sports people have said they are straight, dated opposite gender etc before coming out? What do you expect in Korea? 

Of course people will get it wrong. Of course not everyone thought to be LGBT will be but we can't forget about all signs because of ideal type questions and can't forget that many LGBT people will say they are straight when they are not.