Which male idols do you think are gay?

[annetamiau]

Hi! New poster here! I've been lurking for months, and procrastination has finally pushed me to post.

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm of the (unpopular) opinion that MANY, many male idols are part of the community in some regard. Another thing I'd like to mention is that sometimes there are idols that are so obviously gay that they outshine other members that also ping and people suddenly don't seem to notice or hesitate a lot more (I see that with idols like Ten and Ren, at least half their groups ping a lot but people usually only seem to be certain about them). 

As for specific groups, I'll talk about ATEEZ and BTS, as they are the ones I'm more familiar with:

ATEEZ. Just going by mannerisms alone (and I know this is not a 100% reliable method and should be supported by other observations), I'd say most of them are likely to be part of the community. The ones I'm most certain about are Wooyoung, Yeosang, San, Seonghwa, Yunho and Hongjoong. Wooyoung and San do a lot of fanservice (together and separately), but they ping a lot on their own. And yes, that's 6/8, I know you'll call me delulu but this is just based on personal opinion, nothing scientific about it (I haven't watched them for a long time and I'm not super familiar with their variety shows either). 

BTS. My opinion changes every day. Some days I struggle to find the straight member, other days I think only 3/4 might be part of the community.

- The ones I'm more certain about are Jimin and V. With Jimin, it's just that he pings a lot (and instances like the short clip from Malta or his thirst for Tony in AHL), while with V it's that he pings a lot and mentions lots of LGBT+ artists, films, etc, plus the whole of Stigma. He used to say he wanted to have 54857 kids and be a great family man very convincingly, and I guess he could be bi, but he's the one I would bet actual money on.

- Then there's J-hope. I think J-hope also pings a lot generally, and in that clip from Bon Voyage 2 in Hawaii he was looking at the ripped guy who got Jimin's towel with strong heart eyes (I recall ALL of the members looking at the guy the same way, but J-hope just happened to be very centered on the frame so he made a bigger impression).

- As for Jungkook, because he likes sports and has that particular fashion style people think he's straight, but I think he had a full on crush on Namjoon when he was younger and he hasn't completely got over it (I believe his dating 'scandal' is likely/possibly true, but I don't think he's straight). Even semi-recently, when they did the FESTA thing around 4 moths ago, when talking about why he joined Big Hit one of the things he said was that RM was really handsome. He doesn't ping super strongly but I think he does sometimes, especially the way he moves his hands. 

- With SUGA, Jin and RM I go back and forth a lot, though I'm aware of the long list of 'receipts' RM has.

So, to sum it up, I think at least 50% of the group members might be part of the LGBT+ community, and I don't think this applies to only ATEEZ and BTS, but the kpop industry as a whole (of course, that's on average, not saying it applies to every specific group). However, I don't think dating within the same group happens frequently, so I don't think any of the ships (especially the popular ones) are 'true'. And that's my five cents! :)

 

 

[annetamiau]

5 hours ago, Thatoneuser said:

I have a hypothetical question for everyone in this thread. Say if an idol who isn't out publicly were to come out who do you think it would be? and why? 

Please no hate, this is just a speculation question. 

I'm loving the answers we're getting so far. I agree, especially on the fact that coming out is a very personal decision and not everyone on the spotlight would want to take on the role of educating others about LGBT+ topics and representing the community. I think Jo Kwon is a good guess, as he's been very open so far and his family probably knows by now (just going by how unambiguous he is on social media). 

Unfortunately, I don't think a coming out is going to happen anytime soon. I believe there are many downsides to it, besides the military: the possibility of getting cut out of shows, not getting adds or other opportunities outside the music industry, the company facing considerable monetary loss and losing credibility/popularity, etc. In my opinion, no company would allow their idols to risk coming out, even if the idols really wanted to. A group like BTS could perfectly survive one member coming out (or even more than one!) and in an ideal world they really could pave the way. They have a huge international fandom that wouldn't turn on them (generally speaking, some people would of course) and their brand has a very good reputation in Korea. Their company would definitely lose money but they would be able to survive the hit. However, I don't believe any companies are going to let their idols do that. It would be a very bad business move, and kpop is all about business, despite how much we like to think that idols have certain freedom to choose what they want to do/be themselves. The only way I could maybe see it (and I'm reaching like crazy) is as a risky marketing move (Holland-style, but within the industry), but that's not going to happen (short term).  

That was longer than I intended. To sum up, I think idols will only start coming out if companies somehow see it as a profitable move or something that helps them stay relevant. Companies are not going to risk their stock just because said stock suddenly decided to take a step forward and do something that would help millions of people in the closet and/or facing discrimination.

[annetamiau]

I don't post much because I don't usually have much to say but when I read the news about Heechul I couldn't believe it. He's in my top 3 male idols of all times that I'm most certain are gay (with all the disclaimers: I only see them through a screen and so on). And I know sometimes people 'ping' a lot and are actually bisexual (like Gdragon), but I've been following SuJu for a long time and never have I seen anything remotely similar to attraction towards women in Heechul. Call me delulu but this is kinda sad, I guess I'd feel the same way if Jo Kwon suddenly had a girlfriend. Because it seemed like Heechul was taking a different approach to the dating and marrying thing, he did deny the rumors that he was gay from time to time but in a tongue in cheek kinda way, it didn't seem likely that he'd get a beard. I have no idea what things are like behind the scenes, but there's no way I believe that couple. Anyway, this pair is as real as Taeyeon and Baekhyun. 

 

Forgot to add: I don't follow Twice so I can't say anything about Momo, but I don't think the news are going to impact Heechul negatively. SuJu are ancient in kpop terms, and I don't think the age difference is going to cause problems either (after all, Piqué married Shakira, who is 10 years older than him). 

 

Also, and this might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think these dating 'scandals' have such a bad effect on the idol's popularity, at least in the long run (besides Sungmin, and his situation was a bit different). 

Edited January 1, 2020 by annetamiau
Forgot things

[annetamiau]

2 minutes ago, Tixy said:

The public is reacting well because Heechul has a good image, but Momo's male fans are already discussing with whom they are gonna replace her lol. Of course these two are such huge stars that it's not like their careers will be affected by this, but it's still not preferable for your 23-year-old female idol who doesn't have an overwhelmingly female fanbase to be openly dating a 36-year-old senior. While people might be okay with it, this isn't really their fantasy couple is what I'm getting at. Within the context of the Korean entertainment, people only really want actors to date. I do acknowledge that bearding exists as well, we only need to look at the current mess with Shawn Mendez (or better, let's not~), I just don't believe that idols do bearding by openly dating, but rather by going on shows like We Got Married, doing musicals/drama where they are paired with someone of the opposite sex, and with other similar, much safer and more controlled methods.

Regarding Gunhee, I think that there was a lot there to lead us to believe that the two were dating, the two were very loving obviously, but similarly I also don't think that we should ever underestimate just how much any behavior that might be eyebrow-raising to us and seem like it wants to signal something, could totally be viewed differently by the person performing it if they are living a (mostly?) hetero life in a highly heteronormative country like South Korea. I also think that part of it has to do with Heechul's personality and the need to always entertain, which is influenced by him being an idol, so he can comfortably say and do all sorts of things regarding his best friend, and have it be just platonic and funny for them.

People already pointed this out in the past, but while one could easily conclude that Heechul was showing off Gunhee so much because the two were life partners and Heechul wanted to be as honest about that as he possibly could, it could have also been that he was just trying to help his best friend's hair salon business grow by making him more known. And it worked actually! That's kinda the thing that made me become a lot less convinced of the two being a couple: the fact that, from what I remember, Gunhee went to work in a foreign country for literally ages. I just don't really find it 100% convincing that someone would open a salon in a foreign country, leave their partner of supposedly many years for a very long time like that, and have that relationship work out well romantically in the end. Yes, people do date long distance, especially celebrities, but it's often not terribly successful, or it involves generally not leaving the country for such a long period of time. It was just my gut feeling, but after that I went like "oh, this feels more like a friendship I guess."

tl;dr I don't think anyone was crazy for believing in it, but it was just never a particular open and shut case for me, could have went either way.

You raise some interesting points! As for Gunhee, I'm more inclined to think that Heechul and him dated for some years but are just close friends now (I don't think this could be done with someone you see 24/7, and I've never been in a long-distance relationship, but I think it would be easier to transition back into friendship as you wouldn't see the other person often). 

As for the toll that fake-dating might take on the idols, I don't think idol bearding is that much trouble (relatively speaking). They just publicly say they are dating and maybe a couple pictures of them walking side by side are released. Fortunately they don't have to kiss on camera or anything like that. It will be all over social media for two days and then most people will move on. Momo is younger and probably has more to lose, but even when Jungkook's dating + tattoo 'scandal' came out (and that looked waaaaay more legit than Heechul and Momo, plus the girl wasn't what the fandom was expecting at all) everyone got over it pretty quickly despite the initial freakout (though he has to perpetually hide his tattoos). 

 

 

 

[annetamiau]

3 minutes ago, Tixy said:

Ricky Martin calls himself gay, while also talking about experiencing attraction for women, and possibly having sex with them in the future if he feels the desire. Sound more like a Kinsey 5 to me who wanted to lead a lot gayer life, than an actual totally gay person. He's also "against label", which I find to mean in 99% of the cases bisexual (with or without a preference). But all of that is neither here nor there, there are certainly people who will beard aggressively and lie to themselves too, not just the public, I just don't think that Ricky Martin is the best example for that.

I think that your version that they may have been a couple at some point is also rather possible, but either way, I don't think that Gunhee is spilling any tears right now.

As for the damage that public dating does for idols, Jungkook is just way too big to be hurt career-wise in any significant manner, but he has slowly started getting hate comments branding him the "troublemaker of BTS." That has probably had a negative psychological effect on him to some degree. Look at Kang Daniel too, him getting exposed for dating Jihyo was certainly a contributing factor in his recent mental health crisis. Public dating may not be so painful for every single idol, but it can also be highly stressful for others, and is thus, in my opinion, way too volatile as a bearding tactic in a highly organized environment like kpop where everything is so carefully planned and preplanned.

I completely agree with what you say about Jungkook and Kang Daniel. Antis will get every single opportunity to insult an idol, and a dating scandal gives them material for months, but by your logic bearding would absolutely never happen in the kpop industry and I'd say it does, at least sometimes. 

 

[annetamiau]

I wasn't going to comment again but with regards to bi-erasure, I have though that Heechul is gay for many years. I'm bisexual myself and I'm sure there are plenty of bisexual idols in the industry (GDragon for example), but with Heechul in particular I never saw any signs of attraction towards women. He has a flirty persona, but that's all I thought it was. I believe there is a high number of LGBT+ idols, overall at least 50-60% of them (though I don't think there's any intra-group relationship). However, the only ones I am/was confident that are gay are Jo Kwon, Heechul and Key (there are other idols that ping a lot but I wouldn't dismiss them being bisexual because I don't follow them closely). So I feel the same way I would probably feel if say Jo Kwon or Key suddenly had a girlfriend. 

I don't really know what to think anymore and I'll probably have to reassess the way I read Heechul. I'm still not sold on him and Momo being a genuine couple, but I also want to thank the people who have taken the time to write long posts about the news. They helped me keep an open mind. Also, not related to this topic but I just read that Heechul is leaving Youtube. 

[annetamiau]

(I had quoted a post but it disappeared). I absolutely agree that the entertainment industry is homophobic and that no idol under an active contract will ever come out, as it would make the company lose money. That's why I can't even imagine Jo Kwon coming out, regardless of his glass closet and explicit support towards the community, as long as he is signed to a company. 

However, I think a lot of idols are LGBT, and not just because they ping. Besides the fact that show business attracts people who aren't straight, being idols allows them to put off marriage at least for a few years. Also, I don't think LGBT idols are deeply closeted among their peers. I stumbled upon this video, and she briefly talks about LGBT idols starting at the 7:20 mark (she discusses that together with drinking and smoking, so we can see the negative bias there). 

(I don't know why it doesn't work. Here's the link:)

 

She says that gay idols go to gay clubs and hook up using what I assume must be a Grindr of sorts for celebrities, so basically what normal non-famous people do. Of course, the industry being so homophobic there must be gossip going on as well, but because I think a lot of idols are LGBT I don't think it's a hostile environment overall (unless an idol pings A LOT and becomes the target of rumors). It's not like being out as a non-idol is easy in South Korea anyway.

Also, with regards to BTS Taehyung, I agree he looks slightly sad/apathetic most of the time, but it might just be growing out of his 4D persona or being fed up with idol life or something else completely unrelated to being closeted. However, I do think that touring a lot in the west and realising that there are successful LGBT people in the industry (artists, TV presenters, actors...) must have changed his mindset at least a tiny bit (and this goes for BTS as a whole, I think J-hope talked about 'having seen different ways of loving' or something like that about a year ago, I don't remember the exact words). 

Edited January 3, 2020 by annetamiau

[annetamiau]

I'm glad to see that some people are starting to question Momo's and Heechul's relationship. Don't get me wrong, they might be dating for real, but it kinda took me aback how only a few doubted it when the news came out, especially after Heechul's long history in this thread. 

I'm not going to quote anyone because I'd have to quote around 10 people, but now that some weeks have gone by we can confirm that, business-wise, they haven't been negatively affected at all (Heechul might be getting even more variety appearances than before, and there is a sense of relief among his long-term homophobic fans/general audience that he is, in fact, straight). Of course, some rabid fans are hating them, but sometimes antis pretend to be ex-fans that have been deeply disappointed by their idol (that happens to BTS maknae line), so there's that too. I'm not saying it hasn't been stressful to either of them, but from the company's point of view it was very safe in my opinion. And I agree that the company's choices are only going to be dictated by monetary gain.

I also agree that idols, regardless of success, are much less free than we'd like to think. Think about BTS, who are the top of the top right now. Their fanbase was convinced the BTS Connect project was their baby and were praising them for having such revolutionary marketing ideas with the MV for Black Swan. Well, it turns out they didn't have the slightest idea what that MV was about, who was in it or what the dance meant. I know this has nothing to do with dating scandals and HoMo, but it shows that, even at the very top, idols are unfortunately still very much puppets. They might be getting a bigger cut of the money and longer breaks, but they still have to do what they're told. 

Lastly, I don't understand how anyone can think Momo is a controversial choice for a beard. Momo isn't a rookie but a respected idol, she isn't covered in tattoos and doesn't openly smoke. And she fits the mold for a potential girlfriend based on Heechul's and his friend's comments over the years. There is an age gap, but I don't think a 13 year age gap is an issue in Korea, nor is any of the fair wariness that people who believe their relationship is real have shown towards the fact that Heechul has known Momo since she was quite young and he was already a senior in the industry. 

[annetamiau]

27 minutes ago, blossoms said:

honestly


everyone already discusses hongjoong from ateez but... what's y'alls opinions on yunho?? i've been getting vibes recently
 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I definitely agree about Yunho. I made a post some time ago about ATEEZ and the ones that I think are LGBT+ are Yunho, Seongwha, Yeosang, San, Wooyoung and Hongjoong. I have no strong opinions about Mingi and, as for Jongho, I think he's straight. I know that's A LOT of people from one single group, but one that I'm quite certain about is Yunho. It's his mannerisms plus his explicit support towards the community. I admit I don't have receipts about the others and my opinions are solely based on mannerisms and chemistry between members. 

Also, I was the one that brought up BTS, and my point was to say that if not even the top group of the moment/recent years has as much creative freedom as we as an audience are made to believe, why would Momo/Heechul have the freedom to oppose whatever move their companies deemed profitable? It wasn't criticism towards BTS but the industry itself. 

And what's wrong with people negging posts right and left? I don't understand why the need for negging in the first place, if you don't like a post just ignore it. I'm seeing lots of well-reasoned posts being negged, like, what's the need?

[annetamiau]

Hi! Long time no post :)

I don't follow NCT, but this discussion about how companies and idols themselves know that certain ships are popular and might try to push them comes up from time to time, and I wanted to give my 2 cents and also ask your opinion. 

As I kinda follow ATEEZ, I'd like to share this moment from last Christmas Vlive: https://www.vlive.tv/video/167344?channelCode=C057DB (approximately from 47:00 to 52:00). To sum it up, Wooyoung (black cap at the back of the room) complains that Yeosang (white jacket) is acting distant, though they are supposed to be very close friends and have known each other for 6 years. The leader says that Wooyoung got it wrong, and that Yeosang got hurt first because Wooyoung got very close to San (black cap right next to the camera) and does everything with him, thus ignoring Yeosang. The conversation goes on for some minutes, and I find the members' reaction quite interesting, as it's a very candid moment and not your usual staged conversation. 

Woosan is probably the most popular ATEEZ ship, and both Wooyoung and San allude to their ship name and make references (woosan means umbrella in Korean, I think). I kinda discredited it at first because, while I do believe that idols in one group are generally close and know each other very well as they spend a lot of time together, I tend to think that popular ships are played up. But this conversation proves that Wooyoung and San are indeed very close, probably closer to each other than the other members. Not saying they are together, but I guess you can have the best of both words: being a member of a popular ship, playing it up for the fanservice and still having a very deep connection to the other part of the ship. And while I agree that ATEEZ (as all idol groups) do lots of fanservice in general, not just this one ship, I do think Wooyoung and San have some kind of sexual tension going on. 

I'm not going to link any shippy videos because that's not the point, I just wanted to share this eyebrow-rasing moment and see what you think. 

 

[annetamiau]

Hi again!

BTS look especially giggly in today's RUN episode with their hot, young, male florist (Tae was the most obvious one (he clearly likes the teacher), but I'd say all of them except maybe RM and Jungkook). If you haven't watched it, please do, there's definitely a subtle contrast in the way they usually treat teachers and this one. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by annetamiau

[annetamiau]

I really hope that thing about Jo Kwon is a translation error or a passing comment, but even so it feels a bit disingenuous coming from probably the most consistently open idol. Besides his mannerisms, girl group dances, lady gaga covers, drag shows, abundance of rainbows and glitter on his Instagram, he even has a tattoo that says 'Born this way'. He is a textbook case of glass closet. I don't know what's making him apparently backpedal, but I really really hope this is just a one time thing and he doesn't turn up with a girlfriend in a few months (and no, I don't believe he can be bi). 

Also, with regards to Heechul, I was very skeptical about his relationship with Momo from the start so I might be biased, but as time goes by my belief that it's not a real relationship has only increased. I have no idea what Momo gets from this, but the reaction from Heechul's side of things has been very positive.  His dating status is openly talked about, and there's almost a sense of relief coming from his variety partners, like he is finally doing things things right and there was nothing to worry about. I think he only got hate about the age gap from international fans, not in Korea. I know many won't agree with this, and I don't doubt that there are real straight relationships between idols, but I don't think dating scandals necessarily have such a clear-cut negative effect on the idols' popularity as fans tend to believe. 

[annetamiau]

I don't think idols are entirely comparable with western Youtubers. It's true that both have to come to terms with the fact that they are not straight and fight internalized homophobia, and in places like Korea the amount of misinformation and prejudice can only make things more difficult, but there is an added layer to being an idol. LGBT+ idols are tied to a company that would never ever let them come out during their contract, and even after 'retiring' a coming out would mean no variety gigs or acting jobs.

I don't think any idols will come out in the next decades, sadly, but being an LGBT+ idol also has its perks. They can be as obvious as they want and, as long as they don't utter the words 'I'm gay/bi', they will be fine.They don't have to constantly walk on eggshells fearing that people can tell they're not straight because of the queerbaity nature of kpop, and I think for some idols this must be liberating in a way. I think that Jo Kwon belongs to this category. The fact that some people still wonder if he might be straight after all kinda proves the point that being an idol is a great job for a closeted Korean. This is why comments like the ones he made recently are strange coming from him. There's a difference between explicitly coming out (which he will never do) and being in a glass closet (which is the direction he seemed to have taken for years). Hopefully it was just a one time comment, because nothing else he has done since coming back from the army seems to indicate that he is suddenly uncomfortable with how people perceive him. 

[annetamiau]

8 hours ago, Taecoholic said:

Me, thinking about the same things about J-Hope. It's like he has all the material, but you still feel he is straight lol

I don't think J-hope is straight, he's way more guarded than Tae when it comes to expressing interest in LGBT+ films, songs or artists but the look on his face when he saw the ripped man from Bon Voyage 2 get Jimin's towel was priceless (tbh that's true for most of them, J-hope just so happened to be in the middle of the frame so he stands out more). It's even more glorious in gif form but from a quick search I could only find a pic. 

This is why I have trouble making up my mind with BTS.

There is also another instance of J-hope checking someone out (I think it's Tae) in a jacuzzi, but I can't find it now. It's more recent than the Hawaii thing, maybe from the last Bon Voyage? And he was also clearly checking out Jungkook's butt recently too, but I can't find it either (they were wearing suits I think), I'll try to find these two examples later.  

[annetamiau]

Thank you @Josaline , those were the two moments I was referring to (though the jacuzzi one looked more obvious in my mind, now it feels a bit underwhelming). 

Also, @KiriL you make a really good point saying that J-hope probably doesn't like LGBT+ content like Tae does, it's not like it's a requirement. And I had completely forgotten the Sam Smith dance thing he did with JK!

Edited April 25, 2020 by annetamiau

[annetamiau]

4 hours ago, chargerdine said:

The funniest part of that Shirtless hawaii clip is I’ve seen it used as evidence for Jimin, Tae, and J-hope being gay even though everyone had the same reaction lmao 

All of them had the same reaction but J-hope was in the middle of the frame so it's more noticeable. Honestly, this doesn't make me disregard this moment as a 'receipt' but question who in BTS is straight. Like, I know it's very, very unlikely that none of them are straight, but here we are. 

By the way, another group where it's difficult to spot the straight one/s is ATEEZ. 

[annetamiau]

I'm late to the party, but ATEEZ are fascinating and they have a very good group dynamic (rookies tend to be awkward at first, but they are not). I'm aware that they do looooooots of fanservice and I'm going to sound completely delusional, but as of now the only one I don't think is part of the community is Jongho (and maybe San). The ones I'm more certain about are Hongjoong, Seonghwa, Yeosang, Yunho and Mingi (I hadn't paid attention to him before, but now I don't understand how I could have considered him straight). Sadly I don't have specific receipts, just certain mannerisms or the way some of them dance sometimes (like Yunho, he can dance like a diva and it doesn't come out forced or comedic). Wooyoung and San are tricky; woosan is probably the biggest ship in ATEEZ, and I don't take ships seriously, but at the same time I see some genuine sexual tension there, and also closeness, like in that one vlive where Wooyoung complained that Yeosang was acting distant and Hongjoong sided with Yeosang and said that Wooyoung had ditched him first and was together with San all the time (https://www.vlive.tv/video/167344?channelCode=C057DB, starts at minute 47).

Also, any new opinions about BTS? The ones that I'm "sure" (as sure as an outsider can be) that are not straight are Taehyung, Jimin, J hope and Suga. Then Jungkook, but I go back and forth a lot with him. He has tons of what could be considered 'receipts', like how he came to Big Hit (RM could be seen as his 'gay awakening' and to this day he still mentions how he was very attractive when he first met him, and then there's the legendary 'wow thighs' quote), the fact that he wanted to shower alone when he first became a trainee, his music taste (I know that's debatable but still), and some mannerisms (fans tend to paint him as this super traditionally masculine character but I don't think he is). At the same time, he doesn't really have much of a reaction to men (no moments like Jimin's Malta scene or gushing over the florist), and he's the one who's had the most believable girlfriend rumors since debut (that girl who was a trainee with him, and last summer the tattoo artist). Straight, bi, gay? In conclusion, I have no idea (same with RM and Jin). 

(Sorry I don't contribute with gifs or pics, I'm very bad at finding them). 

[annetamiau]

1 hour ago, IREGRETEVERYTHING said:

Unpopular opinion, but do you guys ever feel that the idols that we are pretty sure could be LGBT are not out even to their members? I'm pretty positive and it makes me sad. Like, even with Jo Kwon, who is pretty likely LGBT, it wouldn't surprise me if he was like "no, it's just a misunderstanding, I like women but I like to act like this" to everyone else. I always think of this when the idols I suspect get asked certain questions by their fellow members, or when the rest of the members are too heteronormative. If these idols I suspect are actually out to them, that would make their fellow members huge a**holes. 

 

That's a good question! My opinion is that 3rd/4th generation idols are out to the majority of their group members and that the industry isn't currently as hostile towards LGBT+ idols as we are made to believe despite Korean society still being quite homophobic, but that's because I'm of the (unpopular) opinion that more than half of the idol population (I'd say about 60%, at least) are LGBT+, especially male idols. 

I could write a whole essay on why I think this, but the point here is that imo 1/2 of a group (on average) is going to end up somewhere in the spectrum. I don't think trainees are generally out to other trainees, either because they might still be figuring themselves out (being teenagers and all) or because of how competitive and aggressive the environment can be. I also think trainee period is when idols might be more exposed to homophobic comments and behaviours from their peers. I do believe that things get better with each generation, though. For first/second generation groups, some of the members not being straight might have been the elephant in the room for a good number of years, while for third/fourth generation groups I think the members might acknowledge it more naturally, even if not always explicitly. Take Jimin and Taehyung, who I believe to be gay/bi, there's no way that they aren't out to each other in some capacity (not necessarily in a big coming out kinda way).

Of course, that's just my take on something that I have no real insight into, so I could be totally wrong. I also think it depends on every idol's personality, how reserved or open they are and how close the members are, so it probably varies from group to group and company to company. What I firmly believe, though, is that about 60% of male idols aren't straight, and the industry must be 'aware' of that in some way.  

Going back to BTS and Jungkook, I thought the rumors about the girlfriend during his trainee days were legit, and his backhug with the tattoo artist was at least more believable than the 'they made eye contact' type of rumors, but I do have a strong feeling that he isn't straight (as I said in my other post, I go back and forth a lot with him but now I'm in the 'not straight' boat). What kinda puzzles me is that he doesn't really 'react' to attractive men, he doesn't get nervous/giggly like other BTS members. But I totally believe his crush on Namjoon was a romantic one, going by how he has mentioned several times how attractive Namjoon was (not just cool or good at rapping), even semi-recently in 2019 Festa (28:30), and I feel like Namjoon 'friendzones' him a lot, if that makes sense. Even in this video, the way Namjoon says 'Now I'm scared' feels like he's saying 'Please, don't say anything too gay' (I'm probably just reaching, but that was the impression I got). 

 

[annetamiau]

Hi again! 

I was one of the people who said that Jungkook showed 'no reaction to men'. It's probably not the best way to put it, and just to clarify I mean that I don't tend to see anything in the way he interacts with men (beyond the typical fanservice stuff and the fact that he is a very tactile person) that could point to attraction. Not saying that I've seen it with women, Jungkook's just hard to read for me and doesn't react in general. He does stare at people a lot, but I don't take this as a sign of attraction either. However, there are solid 'receipts' that point to him not being straight. 

On a completely different note, I've been wondering about one thing. It might sound weird but hear me out. It's about K-antis. We know that there are antis for pretty much every popular idol, including ones that are likely not straight, and they constantly try to spread lies and misinformation about said idols in order to destroy their image. So, why do you think K-antis never suggest that an idol might be gay/bi, even if it's a lie? Besides Yuta's case (and I think that was a sasaeng, not your generic twitter anti) I don't think idols are targeted for their sexuality, not even Taehyung, who we pretty much all agree that is very likely not straight and has a good number of K-antis on twitter. These accounts show no values or empathy whatsoever, pick on the smallest or most trivial stuff (smoking, looking bored, wearing baggy clothes) and definitely don't have the 'my oppa can't be gay' mindset, so what's the reason? (Same with Jungkook actually, but there is not so much consensus on him not being straight).

[annetamiau]

8 hours ago, Crystal Sprite said:

I heard about Yuta sometime long ago but I never got to see the full story, can you mind filling me in?

One reason I think this might be the case is simply the reason we international fans don't really know any better. When K-netz finds something about their artists, they will heavily try to conceal it as possible, thats why when "scandals" or news about an idol is published I saw many saying how many K-netz know these kinds of information before the actual news itself. Which makes me wonder, what else are some information that's already been buried by these knetz and how many of those are credible to an extent. 

I don't follow NCT closely and I actually read about the Yuta rumor in this thread about a year ago, but I've checked the posts and it seems to be a baseless rumor. Apparently, some sasaeng had proof that he was gay and was gonna expose him, but I couldn't find any screenshots of the original text or anything. I shouldn't have mentioned it before making sure it was a 'reasonable' rumor and not completely made up. 

Also, thanks to everyone that answered my question! 

[annetamiau]

50 minutes ago, greysides said:

does anyone know what happened to the discord? cause if it's gone and there isn't another one i kinda want to make one just to have a place to talk  more about bts and lgbt topics specifically, or even just bts at all lol i have nobody to talk to casually about them

I'm quite new, but I would also like to be part of a discord group. I don't have anyone irl to talk about these topics either.

[annetamiau]

48 minutes ago, Lollitta said:

YES, YES, YES AND AGAIN, YES!!!!!

Taehyung is the only member that has shown genuine attraction, as in not for the laughs (reference to Jimin and that interviewer or Tony) or for the sake of fanservice (literally every bts ship). Jimin is the king of fanservice. I love him so much, but like, he is straight. 
I think Taehyung is gay and I kinda side eye Jungkook and Yoongi. The rest are straight in my eyes.

 

Genuine question here: why do you say it was just for the laughs with Tony? The whole hanbook scene yeah, but 90% of the show wasn't; I have actually never seen Jimin try so hard to break the language barrier. Also, the way he stared at that girl's chest in AHL is what convinced me he is most likely gay. 

And I don't think it's such a laughable idea that none of them are straight, it honestly sounds more plausible than just one of them being gay/bi. I only have a solid opinion on 3 though (Taehyung, Jimin, J-hope)

[annetamiau]

22 minutes ago, Lollitta said:

tbh at this point i don't even know what to think about him. I don't think he is gay because I don't think a closeted LGBT person would do so much excessive fanservice, like he literally said right in front of camera that the people editing the nct videos should not cut him being on Mark's lap out...I mean I don't think a closeted lgbt person would say something like that... (at least I wouldn't but in the end of the day everybody's different so Idk...)
So many people are sure of him being gay but I have my doubts...

And now my opinion on the whole norenmin discourse:
I still think Jaemin and Renjun are straight (with Renjun being an ally) and Jeno is the only sus one. I think neither nomin nor noren is real in a romantic way.

Oh and what do you guys think about Mark Lee? So many people think he is straight but I started having my doubts and now I don't know what to think.

I think it will take at least 5-10 years until someone will come out on their own. I also think the first popular idol to come out will be forced out of the closet (like something will get leaked, like text messages, videos, photos, voice recordings etc). I'm kinda scared of it but if nobody wants to do the first step (not even Jo Kwon), it will happen eventually and that's gonna be the first popular idol to come out then.

I don't follow NCT closely so I don't really have an opinion, but I disagree with the logic that an LGBT+ person wouldn't be that over the top, or that everyone who is big on fanservice is consequently straight. I think it basically depends on their personality, and to a lesser degree how comfortable they are with their sexuality. At the end of the day, kpop is like heaven for a closeted person, they can do whatever they want and everyone will blame it on the fanservice, no one will point a threatening finger at them like it could happen in real life. 

As for the coming out question, I don't think anyone will come out voluntarily in the next years/few decades. Many idols would be able to handle a coming out in terms of popularity, especially from groups with a big western fanbase, but doing so would inevitably cause the company to lose money, so there is no way they would allow it. I could see something getting leaked, but even in that scenario it would be easy to dismiss (like Jo Kwon's messages with another idol, earlier in their careers). What I think will happen in the next few years is that we'll probably get more glass closet situations, Jo Kwon's style. 

[annetamiau]

3 hours ago, Ssalsa said:

This is what I had thought of initially but I don't think this case can be implied. To relate, I would say being closeted in the kpop industry is like being closeted in the society. Many LGBT+ individuals from what I had seen from "acted" straight in fear of being ousted to the public and what more in the kpop scene. They cant simply blame it on fanservice everytime as there will always be a chance of slipping up when they are too indulgent with their acts. Not only that, speculations from shippers & eyes of the public will definitely progressively arise and being closeted will definitely not give that sense of security where you will not be ousted and hence, there will definitely be a change of behavior, fanservice/skinship which results in restricted movements. Not to mention the presence of s*s*engs too. Hence, let me reiterate that being closeted in the kpop scene is definitely not as seemingly easy as they look as it doesn't give a form of security where you would not be ousted to the public easily.

I think I oversimplified my thoughts when I was writing my answer. I completely agree that being closeted is always harmful in a way, even in a accepting environment (been there, done that), and for some idols it must be frustrating not being able to freely express that part of themselves. Plus, the 'what ifs' are always there, idol or not (what if something gets leaked, etc.), and idols are 'famous', so they face way more exposure than the average citizen. But I still feel that idols have more of a security blanket, so to speak, than the general population, meaning that it's more difficult for them to be perceived as gay than for, say, an office worker. I stumbled upon this video when I was trying to understand cultural differences (I'm from Spain, so it's not a matter of being touchy or showing affection, everyone is super touchy here too, especially teenagers and young adults, regardless of gender):

As a disclaimer, I know that you can't 'tell' sexual orientation by physical appearance, make up or fashion choices, that it's offensive and that there are plenty of people who do not fit the stereotypes, but the part of the video that caught my eye and the reason why I link it is at 5:25. He was talking about things that are stereotypically perceived as gay in Korea, but then he said 'idols can do everything'. While being famous has its downsides (more exposure, antis...), I really feel that idols are not judged by the same standards as the rest of the Korean population and can get away with a lot more, which in a convoluted way might give some of them a sense of protection. Because let's be real, shippers have zero credibility, and I don't know about all Korean antis, but at least the BTS ones do not try to claim they aren't straight (or not that I know of) and instead go for things like smoking, dating, physical appearance... Plus, the fact that there are fans who genuinely believe that Jo Know is straight speaks for itself.

[annetamiau]

3 hours ago, Devreux said:

hey, here's the discord link for the cord we talked about!

https://discord.gg/7uX2tN

Could you add me, please?