Why are Blacks so prominent in gay culture?

[lompardy]

(title error: media not culture) As a gay guy who've well traveled and well integrated, I've always found that East Asians were, by far, the most common non-white minority race in gay culture. They tend to be the most sought after minority group and they're also the least likely to come across racism and/or hate.

 

But I get the impression that the media almost portrays that gay culture is dominated by Blacks. But far from it, I live in a region where Blacks are the most prominent minority group whereas Asians are non-existent, but Asians still outweigh Blacks by far in terms of real-life relations.

 

I want to see if I can get to the bottom of this here because Reddit is a bit too politically correct to deal with the issue. It's really odd to wonder whether straight people actually think Blacks are more prominent in gay culture than Asians, when the opposite is mostly true.

[JihyoStoleMyHeartAYAYAY]

[Boba]

(title error: media not culture) As a gay guy who've well traveled and well integrated, I've always found that East Asians were, by far, the most common non-white minority race in gay culture. They tend to be the most sought after minority group and they're also the least likely to come across racism and/or hate.

 

wtf. really?

 

this gives me hope 

[2020superman]

There are gay forums for questions like this. I'm sure most users here are female toddlers that like guys much older than them.

[YGMAC000]

(title error: media not culture) As a gay guy who've well traveled and well integrated, I've always found that East Asians were, by far, the most common non-white minority race in gay culture. They tend to be the most sought after minority group and they're also the least likely to come across racism and/or hate.

 

But I get the impression that the media almost portrays that gay culture is dominated by Blacks. But far from it, I live in a region where Blacks are the most prominent minority group whereas Asians are non-existent, but Asians still outweigh Blacks by far in terms of real-life relations.

 

I want to see if I can get to the bottom of this here because Reddit is a bit too politically correct to deal with the issue. It's really odd to wonder whether straight people actually think Blacks are more prominent in gay culture than Asians, when the opposite is mostly true. 

 

It depends on where you are I guess. 

 

The main reason gay culture is mainly black  mainly is a lot of lingo and house/drag/etc were derived by black men in New York who were trying to find who they were and a safe haven. 

 

The culture expanded.

 

As for East asians, i disagree. I live in East Asia and gay men are so closeted here its ridiculous. That's probably why gay culture doesn't feature them. 

[lompardy]

There are gay forums for questions like this. I'm sure most users here are female toddlers that like guys much older than them.

 

I notice nearly every gay forum on the internet is dead. I think it's basically Reddit that's left.

[lompardy]

wtf. really?

 

this gives me hope 

 

I think it depends on where you live. Here in Europe, we don't have so many Asians, so it's hard to find out how well they are liked, but in Canada/Australia they're like the most loved minority group. But I know so many gays who like Asians.

[Boba]

I think it depends on where you live. Here in Europe, we don't have so many Asians, so it's hard to find out how well they are liked, but in Canada/Australia they're like the most loved minority group. But I know so many gays who like Asians.

 

weird. in america, asian girls are the most desired demographic group while asian guys are the polar opposite

 

i should move 

[Lady Valtaya]

There are gay forums for questions like this. I'm sure most users here are female toddlers that like guys much older than them.

Why would girls here want gay guys who are older than we are?

[minime]

East-Asians? You sure? Ever heard of 'no chocolate no rice'?!

Blacks aren't prominent - it is just that the renewal of interest due to RuPaul's Drag Race and past two years discussion about Black representation in Oscar - and the tendency of mainstream to adopt Ebonic lingo, and for media to have  fewest minority characters whereby the Black character also turns out to be LGBT. 

 

Just go read some books on historical gay scene - so many articles came out after the whitewashed Stonewall movie about how Western Gay scene looks down on and belittles the presence and contribution of POC esp. Black and East-Asians.

[minime]

weird. in america, asian girls are the most desired demographic group while asian guys are the polar opposite

 

i should move 

Um, dude sorry to disagree. I don't think so - Canada scene mirrors US with less visible bullying, and Australia is comparatively more open but has more of a pro-Bear culture (not Twink - aka correlated East Asian). [The gay bestfriend's opinion].

But, don't worry - there are pockets of better/more equal scenes in all these places. Just do a bit more research and find the groups which will like you for you. *hugs*

[Boba]

Um, dude sorry to disagree. I don't think so - Canada scene mirrors US with less visible bullying, and Australia is comparatively more open but has more of a pro-Bear culture (not Twink - aka correlated East Asian). [The gay bestfriend's opinion].

But, don't worry - there are pockets of better/more equal scenes in all these places. Just do a bit more research and find the groups which will like you for you. *hugs*

 

aw, that's what I thought

 

thanks boo 

[Green Willow]

because..... nvm

[Lady Valtaya]

(title error: media not culture) As a gay guy who've well traveled and well integrated, I've always found that East Asians were, by far, the most common non-white minority race in gay culture. They tend to be the most sought after minority group and they're also the least likely to come across racism and/or hate.

 

But I get the impression that the media almost portrays that gay culture is dominated by Blacks. But far from it, I live in a region where Blacks are the most prominent minority group whereas Asians are non-existent, but Asians still outweigh Blacks by far in terms of real-life relations.

 

I want to see if I can get to the bottom of this here because Reddit is a bit too politically correct to deal with the issue. It's really odd to wonder whether straight people actually think Blacks are more prominent in gay culture than Asians, when the opposite is mostly true.

I have never thought of Black people as particularly prominent in gay culture. I'm not even sure what you are asking.

 

When I think of a gay man the first thing I think of is a pasty white guy in a tailored suit trying to sell me a $1000.00 wedding dress.

[lompardy]

Um, dude sorry to disagree. I don't think so - Canada scene mirrors US with less visible bullying, and Australia is comparatively more open but has more of a pro-Bear culture (not Twink - aka correlated East Asian). [The gay bestfriend's opinion].

But, don't worry - there are pockets of better/more equal scenes in all these places. Just do a bit more research and find the groups which will like you for you. *hugs*

 

If you ever go to Mardi Gras in Sydney (Australian gay pride) then you see tons of gay Asians with white guys, conversely in London you'll never see any Blacks and only the odd Indian. Australia isn't as bad as the US when it comes to hyper-masculinity in the gay scene as well.

 

I've never been to a gay pride event in the Americas, but I've heard a lot about how you see a lot of Asians at gay bars and clubs in Canada.

 

I just find it odd that Blacks are so prominent in gay media. If you look at Milo Yianopolis, he [supposedly] has a Black boyfriend and comes from a middle class background, but my experience tells me that someone like him would usually have an Asian boyfriend - you can see a lot of White-Asian relationships at universities for example.

[purpletea]

This....isn't.....true?

[Nina Bo'Nina Brown]

East-Asians? You sure? Ever heard of 'no chocolate no rice'?!

Blacks aren't prominent - it is just that the renewal of interest due to RuPaul's Drag Race and past two years discussion about Black representation in Oscar - and the tendency of mainstream to adopt Ebonic lingo, and for media to have  fewest minority characters whereby the Black character also turns out to be LGBT. 

 

Just go read some books on historical gay scene - so many articles came out after the whitewashed Stonewall movie about how Western Gay scene looks down on and belittles the presence and contribution of POC esp. Black and East-Asians.

This tbh

[lompardy]

weird. in america, asian girls are the most desired demographic group while asian guys are the polar opposite

 

i should move 

 

Europe doesn't really have any East Asians, but we get a lot of Middle Easterners and Indians. We're not so strongly pro-Black here, and it's normal for people to consider East Asians as being more fetished than Blacks. East Asian culture is very popular among Europeans (think of Big Bang at MTV EMA) and a lot of them view Asians as exotic.

 

Europe tends to be more supportive of "feminine" beauty ideals, the idea of being skinny and wearing feminine clothing is more acceptable.

 

http://menstylefashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Cristiano-Ronaoldo-Dailymail.jpg

http://image.afcdn.com/story/20160128/-854217_w526h275c1cx511cy248.jpg

http://threadforthought.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/metrosexual-2000s.jpg

http://www.martindelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/skinny-4.jpg

http://www.ronaldo7.net/faq/cristiano-ronaldo-shorts-yacht.jpg

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men7a19Lk51rltd07o1_500.jpg

[minime]

If you ever go to Mardi Gras in Sydney (Australian gay pride) then you see tons of gay Asians with white guys, conversely in London you'll never see any Blacks and only the odd Indian. Australia isn't as bad as the US when it comes to hyper-masculinity in the gay scene as well.

 

I've never been to a gay pride event in the Americas, but I've heard a lot about how you see a lot of Asians at gay bars and clubs in Canada.

 

I just find it odd that Blacks are so prominent in gay media. If you look at Milo Yianopolis, he [supposedly] has a Black boyfriend and comes from a middle class background, but my experience tells me that someone like him would usually have an Asian boyfriend - you can see a lot of White-Asian relationships at universities for example.

I've not been present during Mardi Gras or Gay Pride Parade day, so I cannot comment, but I have been to gay bars with friends and what I've been told there and seen is what I wrote about. Also, there's a difference between representation in a public parade and the security and comparative anonymity of a gay club - there are South Asian, African, East-Asian gays aplenty in gay-friendly/gay-only places but their familial culture and traditions forbid they partake of flamboyance outing. 

 

Hmm, but even among gays serious inter-racial relationships have had immense backlash, because while White Gays may be homosexual but many among them still subscribe fully to White Superiority - i.e. hypermasculinity and racism.

 

Europe doesn't really have any East Asians, but we get a lot of Middle Easterners and Indians. We're not so strongly pro-Black here, and it's normal for people to consider East Asians as being more fetished than Blacks. East Asian culture is very popular among Europeans (think of Big Bang at MTV EMA) and a lot of them view Asians as exotic.

 

Europe tends to be more supportive of "feminine" beauty ideals, the idea of being skinny and wearing feminine clothing is more acceptable.

 

http://menstylefashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Cristiano-Ronaoldo-Dailymail.jpg

http://image.afcdn.com/story/20160128/-854217_w526h275c1cx511cy248.jpg

http://threadforthought.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/metrosexual-2000s.jpg

http://www.martindelacroix.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/skinny-4.jpg

http://www.ronaldo7.net/faq/cristiano-ronaldo-shorts-yacht.jpg

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men7a19Lk51rltd07o1_500.jpg

There's always been the joke that "Gay or European?" but subscribing to a less strict version of masculinity (than US) doesn't make them gay-friendly. Cristiano has faced homophobic insults on the field (http://www.newnownext.com/cristiano-ronaldo-gay-slurs/12/2016/ , https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2229001/cristiano-ronaldo-reveals-what-was-said-in-homophobic-row-with-atleticos-koke-in-real-madrids-3-0-derby-win/). 

For a corollary, just look at JPOP or KPOP - onscreen they may do homosocial fanservice, and wear 'girly' clothing, and use make-up but how many show utter contempt for real homosexual relations? Just think of idols making grossed-out expressions during Pocky games, refusing jokey marriage offers from fans of same gender, etc. etc. 

[denizen mars]

as a real life lesbian (who has gay male friends I've talked with about this issue as well)....what even is this topic? Gay culture is terribly white washed, especially by the straight media, but also to some degree internally. I think lesbian and bi women's community is doing slightly better with the race issue because we don't run around openly saying shit like 'no blacks no asians' publicly, but it's more just like marginalized members of the community are just invisible at times. 

[denizen mars]

 

There's always been the joke that "Gay or European?" but subscribing to a less strict version of masculinity (than US) doesn't make them gay-friendly. 

For a corollary, just look at JPOP or KPOP - onscreen they may do homosocial fanservice, and wear 'girly' clothing, and use make-up but how many show utter contempt for real homosexual relations? Just think of idols making grossed-out expressions during Pocky games, refusing jokey marriage offers from fans of same gender, etc. etc. 

 

lets be clear about this because I see it crop up a lot from posters that mean well, but maybe are missing some context. East asian masculinity is not 'less strict' than US or other masculinity. It's different. A masculine role model in east asia prior to western encroachment was a man who was a filial son and was well-groomed, well-dressed, educated, and could arrange flowers and recite and compose poetry. Despite the fact that in the late 19th and 20th centuries, east asian countries were exposed to and began adopting aspects of western ideals of masculinity in an effort to compete with and emulate the west, these original classical ideals persist in some ways. These ideals are thus not 'more gay' than american masculine ideals, it's just what was the norm there. You can't view it in terms of a western framework of what it means to be masculine, because it doesn't fit into that framework at all.

this is probably totally pedantic but I think it's an important distinction

[minime]

lets be clear about this because I see it crop up a lot from posters that mean well, but maybe are missing some context. East asian masculinity is not 'less strict' than US or other masculinity. It's different. A masculine role model in east asia prior to western encroachment was a man who was a filial son and was well-groomed, well-dressed, educated, and could arrange flowers and recite and compose poetry. Despite the fact that in the late 19th and 20th centuries, east asian countries were exposed to and began adopting aspects of western ideals of masculinity in an effort to compete with and emulate the west, these original classical ideals persist in some ways. These ideals are thus not 'more gay' than american masculine ideals, it's just what was the norm there. You can't view it in terms of a western framework of what it means to be masculine, because it doesn't fit into that framework at all.

this is probably totally pedantic but I think it's an important distinction

My sentence related to Europe rather than East-Asia. Also, in that context - it is less strict - because the gender norms challenging music/fashion scenarios impacted harder (Punk and derivatives chiefly) in Europe and did work much to question the prevalent 'Man of the House/Boys don't cry' type of masculinity previously held as ideal in pre-WW1 eras. 

 

When it comes to Asia - I mostly agree with you. There, masculinity and sexuality have both had different sets of standards. 

[lompardy]

as a real life lesbian (who has gay male friends I've talked with about this issue as well)....what even is this topic? Gay culture is terribly white washed, especially by the straight media, but also to some degree internally. I think lesbian and bi women's community is doing slightly better with the race issue because we don't run around openly saying shit like 'no blacks no asians' publicly, but it's more just like marginalized members of the community are just invisible at times. 

 

This depends on where you live. I grew up in Italy where the gays aren't so closeted, as with most of Western Europe, and where they have more free time to mingle with minorities - Western Europe is generally less racist than the US. The media, US media, gives you the impression that Blacks are well-liked, but I'd place Asians/Indians/MEs above them for sure based on real experience.

 

I've never come across the no blacks / no asians thing here as well. It's predominantly been the Muslims that got racism with things like "no pakis" or "no arabs", and now 1D and the media has been encouraging racism against South Indians but still nothing like "no indians".

[lompardy]

I've not been present during Mardi Gras or Gay Pride Parade day, so I cannot comment, but I have been to gay bars with friends and what I've been told there and seen is what I wrote about. Also, there's a difference between representation in a public parade and the security and comparative anonymity of a gay club - there are South Asian, African, East-Asian gays aplenty in gay-friendly/gay-only places but their familial culture and traditions forbid they partake of flamboyance outing. 

 

Hmm, but even among gays serious inter-racial relationships have had immense backlash, because while White Gays may be homosexual but many among them still subscribe fully to White Superiority - i.e. hypermasculinity and racism.

 

There's always been the joke that "Gay or European?" but subscribing to a less strict version of masculinity (than US) doesn't make them gay-friendly. Cristiano has faced homophobic insults on the field (http://www.newnownext.com/cristiano-ronaldo-gay-slurs/12/2016/ , https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2229001/cristiano-ronaldo-reveals-what-was-said-in-homophobic-row-with-atleticos-koke-in-real-madrids-3-0-derby-win/). 

For a corollary, just look at JPOP or KPOP - onscreen they may do homosocial fanservice, and wear 'girly' clothing, and use make-up but how many show utter contempt for real homosexual relations? Just think of idols making grossed-out expressions during Pocky games, refusing jokey marriage offers from fans of same gender, etc. etc. 

 

I've been to gay clubs in Canada, Western Europe, and Australia, and I can, for sure, say that I never see gay Blacks. I've been able to hate on Blacks in gay clubs too. But I've seen plenty of Asians (tons of mixed race couples) even in Western Europe - the first minority I came across in the gay bar back when I was 14 was a gay Asian too.

 

In the UK, you get a lot of Indians though they are still too few considering the number of Indians in the country. Western Europe in general has a more racist climate against Muslims.

 

Western Europe is also a bit more progressive. East Asian culture is a bit more mainstream and being feminine is also more natural and masculine here. You don't have to deal with the masculinity issues if you're dressed up like a "feminine" kpop guy - you're only dealing with racism as a minority person.

[lompardy]

lets be clear about this because I see it crop up a lot from posters that mean well, but maybe are missing some context. East asian masculinity is not 'less strict' than US or other masculinity. It's different. A masculine role model in east asia prior to western encroachment was a man who was a filial son and was well-groomed, well-dressed, educated, and could arrange flowers and recite and compose poetry. Despite the fact that in the late 19th and 20th centuries, east asian countries were exposed to and began adopting aspects of western ideals of masculinity in an effort to compete with and emulate the west, these original classical ideals persist in some ways. These ideals are thus not 'more gay' than american masculine ideals, it's just what was the norm there. You can't view it in terms of a western framework of what it means to be masculine, because it doesn't fit into that framework at all.

this is probably totally pedantic but I think it's an important distinction

 

There's more to this too.

 

Historically, Non-Muslim India (which pretty much encompasses all of South India and parts of North India) was mostly like modern-day Thailand in terms of how the men were viewed. The idea of sexual promiscuity (men playing about with other men) was more normal and third gender (ladyboys) was common too. The flower boy thing is actually found in Ancient India and Pre-Colonial India too.

 

It's also way more common for men to wear cosmetics in modern-day India, even decades ago, men would use beauty products to make themselves look more attractive. And sports/athletics is not a major aspect of masculinity in India too, so being a skinny guy is normal.