K-Pop fans tend to underestimate non-CHN/JPN international fans

[Hyooga]

Confession:

 

I remember being not a fan of BTS in 2013/14 and I would usually let ASC play in the background while I worked (ASC uploaded full episodes on YT even then) and there used to be a portion called After Show where a lot of English speaking idols frequented to co-host. I remember BTS and BtoB leaving very strong impressions on me because they allowed members who barely spoke a lick of English co-host that segment (iirc, Jimin and Jungkook, Eunkwang left an impression on me too!)

 

I know BTS was still pretty nugu at that point but I knew they were gathering a decent international fanbase. Ngl, I thought they were gonna end up like U-Kiss back then - big international fandom but never really managing to rise in Korea save for an occassional hit or two. I used to be one of those people who thought only Korean validation was the ultimate and you cling on international fans just for survival. 

 

But BTS clung on their international fans, trusted them and kept doing what they did best: make music that tell stories. They nourished the relationship with them by constantly updating SNS, releasing Bangtan Bombs, putting English subs on their MVs, even flew to do shows for them whether they're in Europe/US/SEA (yes, they used to go to Europe). 

 

In return, their international fanbase supported them by purchasing their goods and going to their shows. This was the time when you could enter a BTS fanmeet in Korea with 5-10 copies of an album (a longtime Army friend of mine got in by buying just 7, multiple times during this era...funnily she is now having a hard time to even purchase a BTS concert ticket now) 

 

While they certainly weren't earning big but it was enough to sustain them, keep them afloat and make them survive to reach HYYH era wherein a whole new chapter for them was turned and the tide started changing when I Need U happened. It took more than 4 comebacks for them to even churn out a decently charting song. But we have to acknowledge that until this point, a huge margin of their support came from their international fans. 

 

If they weren't in the equation, I frankly doubt the group would have reached the HYYH period. 2012-2014 was an era where boybands were debuting and disbanding left and right. It wasn't until HYYH that the group really developed a stabler Korean fanbase.

 

But the way they valued their international fans not only helped sustain them. These same fans are the ones who spam Youtube talking about BTS, were constantly mocked by the international K-Pop community, converted their friends/family to become BTS fans as well. They were the movement behind why the current international fandom is so huge without a powerful marketing machinery. While more seasoned K-Pop fans (like, uhh, me) were busy making fun of them embarrassing themselves just to inject BTS anywhere and everywhere, they were convincing people to check out BTS (and the fact that BTS does have good music makes them an easy sell). It is this "roach" attitude international K-Pop fans alienated them for which helped their bias group actually rise. While the fandom had a bad rep, it gave a recall on the group and people usually realize the group has good content once they actually check them out. 

 

Even now that they have a formidable Korean fanbase, international fans continue to sustain them. Now bigger than ever, overseas shows get sold out in minutes (even when required to answer a trivia questionnaire to prove they are indeed BTS fans), they led them to the BBMAs and are making up a huge chunk of their merchandise buyers. With a bigger Korean fanbase as well as a strong global fanbase: this is what brought them to the top.

 

This isn't to discount the help and support of Korean fans, but the story of BTS is a proof why Chinese and Japanese international fans aren't the only important international fans for K-Pop. They may not bulk buy the same way as the mentioned international fans, but they have the power to spread a group's name and music if they take the matters into their own hands. In the scheme of things with BTS, it is visible that they were an integral part even during the early days in helping the group survive, and even now as the group is beginning their rise. 

[APTX4869]

Wow do you work for a magazine or sth?

Your writing skills are amazing

[BeTaS]

Well said. I don't care if other fandoms call us names. Armys just gotta stick together. 

 

[btstryhard]

This is honestly too good for a forum, it's so well-written.   I wonder what makes BTS different then, other groups must have international fans as well, right? Why don't they spread the word too? I know some do, but they seem to stop with doing the minimal. ARMYs seem to be the only ones known for spamming and talking/promoting about BTS, why don't other fandoms do the same if it will benefit their group?

I saw the occasional kpop-related comment before, but it never bothered me, I just scrolled past it because I didn't know what it was talking about. Is it only annoying to kpop fans who have already heard about BTS?

[vivianss]

A group just need to makes those global fans devoted and dedicated to you just like the other kpop fans that already familiar and aware with the fandom culture.

 

Because i honestly understand why some of them did underestimate international fans, because they usually treat kpop as something to enjoy, listen to musics and performances, they could care less about awards, daesang, achievements, promoting their artist, how many album sold etc etc.

 

Gotta give it up to BTS and big hit with the way they work and manage to snatched all these global fans and making us loyal to them and willing to go far for supporting the boys.

[sammydee]

TL;DR

[nuguland]

Damnit tiptoegirl i always love your thread

[Aliens-United]

Basically, for all those with a TL;DR mindset, the OP says that I-ARMYs prove that international Kpop fans are more than capable of getting shit done for their fave groups and you shouldn't think they're less of a fan than C- and J-fans.

 

Good read, OP! I love your articles.

[Waylars]

Also it's why we've gained love and mutual respect from k-armys; they recognize that we hustle hard for Bts

[Hyooga]

This is honestly too good for a forum, it's so well-written.   I wonder what makes BTS different then, other groups must have international fans as well, right? Why don't they spread the word too? I know some do, but they seem to stop with doing the minimal. ARMYs seem to be the only ones known for spamming and talking/promoting about BTS, why don't other fandoms do the same if it will benefit their group?

I saw the occasional kpop-related comment before, but it never bothered me, I just scrolled past it because I didn't know what it was talking about. Is it only annoying to kpop fans who have already heard about BTS?

 

 

As a fan who formerly looked down on ARMYs (I always had a guilty pleasure for BTS music though, my iTunes is a blatant evidence seeing how it explicitly states I purchased Boy in Luv on October 2014, and that was a song with lyrics I disagreed with but it as such a bop) I don't think it affects the outside non-Kpop fans much. But they had a pretty bad rep within the international K-Pop fandom and the reason why a lot of other fandoms never maximized their spamming the way ARMYs did was because they did not want to be seen as a group "like ARMYs" - in the end it kinda backfired because it was BTS who eventually rose and it cancels out because we are seeing some fandoms realizing it and starting to do the same thing now. For some reason ARMYs are always treated as inferior and embarrassing.

 

Last May when I was starting to be an ARMY, I was telling my long-time Cassie friend that I think I no longer just like BTS perfs and songs, but I'm actually liking the group themselves (as in the members) and starting to get into the fandom stuff. She agreed that BTS has great lives and amazing music but she will never get into them "because the quality of the fandom is important". Either way, I kinda let go of my elitist views and just went for the leap anyway because the boys were wrecking my bias lists everyday and I have never looked back since (and it helps that I've known them for a while, it's like being classmates with someone for a couple of years but only becoming friends later). Even when I got into the fandom, a lot of my views on the boys changed (haha prejudice really blinds). This whole story is pretty ironic too because that friend of mine is now a Wannable, and we know the rep of that fandom now. Life is strange sometimes.

 

So the thing is, ARMYs are the antithesis to the "cool" K-Pop fans who think spamming about their faves and being annoying on youtube comments are beneath them so you don't see much of it (until recently). K-Pop fans always held tightly to the belief that K-Pop will never crossover beyond a niche, but it's only recently these beliefs are challenged. 

[diminie]

I'd also add that the same passion i-armys have for roaching and promoting BTS is exactly one of the main reasons that made the korean fandom recognize us, accept us and love us.

 

I might be wrong, but I believe i-armys relationship with k-armys is the best relationship between the international and korean sides of a fandom that kpop has ever seen.

 

While you have other fandoms calling i-fans "roaches, bitches. etc"... k-armys are out there calling us "international lovelies", writing letters to us and thanking us again and again for never stopping supporting BTS.

 

It's... beautiful.

[Hyooga]

Because i honestly understand why some of them did underestimate international fans, because they usually treat kpop as something to enjoy, listen to musics and performances, they could care less about awards, daesang, achievements, promoting their artist, how many album sold etc etc.

 

Gotta give it up to BTS and big hit with the way they work and manage to snatched all these global fans and making us loyal to them and willing to go far for supporting the boys.

 

As a Cassie, I went to OT5 concerts and stuff, but I never bulked buy albums or DVDs. I think I only have the Japanese ones too. Didn't really bother me if they got a daesang or not or how many units they sold. I was worked up with Oricon (because they were nugu in Japan) and the whole nugu!DBSK in Japan is translating to my BTS fangirling.

 

I also liked other K-Pop groups but never enough to bother with their sales or achievements. I think I only experienced it with DB5K and BTS though I remember being ecstatic when Seventeen got their first win for Pretty U.

[Queen's Mine]

Confession:

 

I remember being not a fan of BTS in 2013/14 and I would usually let ASC play in the background while I worked (ASC uploaded full episodes on YT even then) and there used to be a portion called After Show where a lot of English speaking idols frequented to co-host. I remember BTS and BtoB leaving very strong impressions on me because they allowed members who barely spoke a lick of English co-host that segment (iirc, Jimin and Jungkook, Eunkwang left an impression on me too!)

 

I know BTS was still pretty nugu at that point but I knew they were gathering a decent international fanbase. Ngl, I thought they were gonna end up like U-Kiss back then - big international fandom but never really managing to rise in Korea save for an occassional hit or two. I used to be one of those people who thought only Korean validation was the ultimate and you cling on international fans just for survival.

 

But BTS clung on their international fans, trusted them and kept doing what they did best: make music that tell stories. They nourished the relationship with them by constantly updating SNS, releasing Bangtan Bombs, putting English subs on their MVs, even flew to do shows for them whether they're in Europe/US/SEA (yes, they used to go to Europe).

 

In return, their international fanbase supported them by purchasing their goods and going to their shows. This was the time when you could enter a BTS fanmeet in Korea with 5-10 copies of an album (a longtime Army friend of mine got in by buying just 7, multiple times during this era...funnily she is now having a hard time to even purchase a BTS concert ticket now)

 

While they certainly weren't earning big but it was enough to sustain them, keep them afloat and make them survive to reach HYYH era wherein a whole new chapter for them was turned and the tide started changing when I Need U happened. It took more than 4 comebacks for them to even churn out a decently charting song. But we have to acknowledge that until this point, a huge margin of their support came from their international fans.

 

If they weren't in the equation, I frankly doubt the group would have reached the HYYH period. 2012-2014 was an era where boybands were debuting and disbanding left and right. It wasn't until HYYH that the group really developed a stabler Korean fanbase.

 

But the way they valued their international fans not only helped sustain them. These same fans are the ones who spam Youtube talking about BTS, were constantly mocked by the international K-Pop community, converted their friends/family to become BTS fans as well. They were the movement behind why the current international fandom is so huge without a powerful marketing machinery. While more seasoned K-Pop fans (like, uhh, me) were busy making fun of them embarrassing themselves just to inject BTS anywhere and everywhere, they were convincing people to check out BTS (and the fact that BTS does have good music makes them an easy sell). It is this "roach" attitude international K-Pop fans alienated them for which helped their bias group actually rise. While the fandom had a bad rep, it gave a recall on the group and people usually realize the group has good content once they actually check them out.

 

Even now that they have a formidable Korean fanbase, international fans continue to sustain them. Now bigger than ever, overseas shows get sold out in minutes (even when required to answer a trivia questionnaire to prove they are indeed BTS fans), they led them to the BBMAs and are making up a huge chunk of their merchandise buyers. With a bigger Korean fanbase as well as a strong global fanbase: this is what brought them to the top.

 

This isn't to discount the help and support of Korean fans, but the story of BTS is a proof why Chinese and Japanese international fans aren't the only important international fans for K-Pop. They may not bulk buy the same way as the mentioned international fans, but they have the power to spread a group's name and music if they take the matters into their own hands. In the scheme of things with BTS, it is visible that they were an integral part even during the early days in helping the group survive, and even now as the group is beginning their rise.

 

Japan sales is no good to korean sales, cause Japan sales count separately.

 

Also if you talk about YouTube, China didn't stream on YouTube. Not sure about Japan, but I believe they have their own streaming website.

[Hyooga]

Japan sales is no good to korean sales, cause Japan sales count separately.

 

I meant Japan fans bulk buy the Korean albums too plus they spend heaps of $$$$$ in concerts/merch. Some groups survive solely on Japanese fans, example: 2PM is JYP's biggest breadwinner and they mainly earn that profit from JP. Same with SHINee.

[satoori]

Confession:

 

 

I used to be one of those people who thought only Korean validation was the ultimate and you cling on international fans just for survival. 

 

 

Same. That's how it's been for years.

 

However BTS are all over Korean news and have more opportunities because of their international success.

Also we international Armys are very dedicated and loyal. Traditionally traits that are associated with CHN/JPN fandoms. Many groups are able to "cling on" to their JPN fans (+some intl fans) to survive, even when their not as popular anymore.

 

 

Although in the long-run I do feel that "Korean validation" is still very beneficial to a Korean group's career. (especially when they start doing more individual activities..)

[Akpheart]

As a fan who formerly looked down on ARMYs (I always had a guilty pleasure for BTS music though, my iTunes is a blatant evidence seeing how it explicitly states I purchased Boy in Luv on October 2014, and that was a song with lyrics I disagreed with but it as such a bop) I don't think it affects the outside non-Kpop fans much. But they had a pretty bad rep within the international K-Pop fandom and the reason why a lot of other fandoms never maximized their spamming the way ARMYs did was because they did not want to be seen as a group "like ARMYs" - in the end it kinda backfired because it was BTS who eventually rose and it cancels out because we are seeing some fandoms realizing it and starting to do the same thing now. For some reason ARMYs are always treated as inferior and embarrassing.

 

Last May when I was starting to be an ARMY, I was telling my long-time Cassie friend that I think I no longer just like BTS perfs and songs, but I'm actually liking the group themselves (as in the members) and starting to get into the fandom stuff. She agreed that BTS has great lives and amazing music but she will never get into them "because the quality of the fandom is important". Either way, I kinda let go of my elitist views and just went for the leap anyway because the boys were wrecking my bias lists everyday and I have never looked back since (and it helps that I've known them for a while, it's like being classmates with someone for a couple of years but only becoming friends later). Even when I got into the fandom, a lot of my views on the boys changed (haha prejudice really blinds). This whole story is pretty ironic too because that friend of mine is now a Wannable, and we know the rep of that fandom now. Life is strange sometimes.

 

So the thing is, ARMYs are the antithesis to the "cool" K-Pop fans who think spamming about their faves and being annoying on youtube comments are beneath them so you don't see much of it (until recently). K-Pop fans always held tightly to the belief that K-Pop will never crossover beyond a niche, but it's only recently these beliefs are challenged.

 

I think kpop fans have a complicated relationship with reputation in general, maybe partly bc kpop fans have been so stigmatized. So anyone possibly exacerbating that is frowned upon.

 

Same. That's how it's been for years.

 

However BTS are all over Korean news and have more opportunities because of their international success.

Also we international Armys are very dedicated and loyal. Traditionally traits that are associated with CHN/JPN fandoms. Many groups are able to "cling on" to their JPN fans (+some intl fans) to survive, even when their not as popular anymore.

 

 

Although in the long-run I do feel that "Korean validation" is still very beneficial to a Korean group's career. (especially when they start doing more individual activities..)

What I heard was that "ifans aren't loyal." I mean, we'll see, but I think that there are plenty of signs that that's not necessarily true, and not just for ARMYs, though I get the concern. I think rules are made to be broken in general. But retaining loyalty also depends on BTS.

[btstryhard]

So the thing is, ARMYs are the antithesis to the "cool" K-Pop fans who think spamming about their faves and being annoying on youtube comments are beneath them so you don't see much of it (until recently). K-Pop fans always held tightly to the belief that K-Pop will never crossover beyond a niche, but it's only recently these beliefs are challenged. 

 

I guess, most fans leave the support and promoting to their companies, not believing that they can play a significant part in that.

 

It's my first fandom experience (before I never involved myself in anything because I was lowkey scared of people on the internet), but I like how there's so many of us with different personalities and opinions. It helped to diversify my perception of ARMYs, before I would call myself a 'fan of BTS' simply because I couldn't relate to the typical, stereotypical ARMY everyone was talking about. 

 

There are definitely reasons why intl fans are perceived to be useless, but it's nice that ARMYs are proving that's not always the case.

 

If anyone was a fan back then during 2013-2014 can answer, was the spamming on purpose? Like a sort of collective objective that was individually decided? Or someone rallying them together? Because no matter how I think about it, it's weird to me that only BTS are the only ones I know with a fandom reputation like this, it points towards the conclusion that the fans must have really, really, really liked BTS to not only talk about them a lot, but to also be reminded of something BTS-related even on things that were not.

 

The other reason might be because of negative backlash for being annoying? I remember someone saying they didn't talk about BTS on unrelated things, but after being criticised for it, went ahead and began doing it.

[satoori]

What I heard was that "ifans aren't loyal." I mean, we'll see, but I think that there are plenty of signs that that's not necessarily true, and not just for ARMYs, though I get the concern. I think rules are made to be broken in general. But retaining loyalty also depends on BTS.

 

In general, I've always heard that too. (except about Armys..)

 

Yea only time will tell. BTS career-wise are still relatively young. Hopefully intl fans will remain dedicated/loyal.

 

But just in case, Bighit/BTS should try to prepare imo. They're doing good in Japan, so that's great.  

Doing more collabs and working with other Korean artist is a step in the right direction too. Build a reputation/brand. (e.g. Yoongi and Suran..also the recent news about him potentially working with Tablo/Lee Sora)

[Hyooga]

 

There are definitely reasons why intl fans are perceived to be useless, but it's nice that ARMYs are proving that's not always the case.

 

 

 

I honestly feel it only seems this way because BTS as a group is yet to hit their peak (we are slowly on a build up right now, I'm assuming this Love Yourself era is something that will be remembered for a long time in K-Pop) but once they hit the peak, after that is when the ultimate fandom test happens. This is why public recognition is said to be the best way to solidify yourself in the long run.

 

I know we talk a lot about international fandom, but won't it be great if BTS achieves international public recognition instead?

[satoori]

I guess, most fans leave the support and promoting to their companies, not believing that they can play a significant part in that.

 

It's my first fandom experience (before I never involved myself in anything because I was lowkey scared of people on the internet), but I like how there's so many of us with different personalities and opinions. It helped to diversify my perception of ARMYs, before I would call myself a 'fan of BTS' simply because I couldn't relate to the typical, stereotypical ARMY everyone was talking about. 

 

There are definitely reasons why intl fans are perceived to be useless, but it's nice that ARMYs are proving that's not always the case.

 

 

If anyone was a fan back then during 2013-2014 can answer, was the spamming on purpose? Like a sort of collective objective that was individually decided? Or someone rallying them together? Because no matter how I think about it, it's weird to me that only BTS are the only ones with a fandom like this, it points towards the conclusion that the fans must have really, really, really liked BTS to not only talk about them a lot, but to also be reminded of something BTS-related even on things that were not.

 

The other reason might be because of negative backlash for being annoying? I remember someone saying they didn't talk about BTS on unrelated things, but after being criticised for it, went ahead and began doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

Youtube-wise: It was random. Nothing planned. No one noticed it back in those days, because not many fans were doing it. Some fans were just curious. They would notice a person's dp/profile photo and simply ask if they were an Army. And a few were just having fun in the comments "Any Armys here XD"

 

It was not until BTS started getting popular during HYYH era, that trolls/haters started making a big deal about it. And then of course the hate spread from there. Basically there was no real reason to hate BTS, so instead they turned to the fandom. In reality Armys were no different then other fandoms. There is an annoying minority in every fandom. But of course it was easy for people to play blind.

 

From there as the fandom grew the "promoting" naturally grew too. 

But we can't forget there are also trolls who have fun "spamming" ...

 

 

Twitter-wise: Armys are different? Armys were everywhere promoting BTS. Reaching out to other artist and media. It's easy to retweet. Again all of this didn't really start till 2015 imo. (The first real planned and organized "spam" was with Krizz Kaliko)

 

This promoting on sns could also be due to the fact it's a new generation..but also when it comes to sns, I guess you could say Armys learned from the best lol. BTS had to depend on other platforms like twitter and youtube to promote too.

 

 

[kittymommy]

Army is a different kind of 'breed' of fans lol and i mean in a good kind of way. For me what make army this relentless in promoting bts because we kind of feel a deep connection to the boys because of the constant communication & acknowledgement we receive from them. We feel close to them more than like a fan supporting their favourite artist but more like you are rooting for the people who close to your life & probably making an impact in it. Like you are rooting for your 'best friend' to achieve their full potential that you see they capable of.

And that what other fandom can't fathom, why would they go the extra mile army go when their own fave barely make an effort to connect with them? Its only logic, you get what you give

[johnnyrose]

[littlemaru]

 

I guess, most fans leave the support and promoting to their companies, not believing that they can play a significant part in that.

 

It's my first fandom experience (before I never involved myself in anything because I was lowkey scared of people on the internet), but I like how there's so many of us with different personalities and opinions. It helped to diversify my perception of ARMYs, before I would call myself a 'fan of BTS' simply because I couldn't relate to the typical, stereotypical ARMY everyone was talking about. 

 

There are definitely reasons why intl fans are perceived to be useless, but it's nice that ARMYs are proving that's not always the case.

 

If anyone was a fan back then during 2013-2014 can answer, was the spamming on purpose? Like a sort of collective objective that was individually decided? Or someone rallying them together? Because no matter how I think about it, it's weird to me that only BTS are the only ones I know with a fandom reputation like this, it points towards the conclusion that the fans must have really, really, really liked BTS to not only talk about them a lot, but to also be reminded of something BTS-related even on things that were not.

 

The other reason might be because of negative backlash for being annoying? I remember someone saying they didn't talk about BTS on unrelated things, but after being criticised for it, went ahead and began doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

Youtube-wise: It was random. Nothing planned. No one noticed it back in those days, because not many fans were doing it. Some fans were just curious. They would notice a person's dp/profile photo and simply ask if they were an Army. And a few were just having fun in the comments "Any Armys here XD"

 

It was not until BTS started getting popular during HYYH era, that trolls/haters started making a big deal about it. And then of course the hate spread from there. Basically there was no real reason to hate BTS, so instead they turned to the fandom. In reality Armys were no different then other fandoms. There is an annoying minority in every fandom. But of course it was easy for people to play blind.

 

From there as the fandom grew the "promoting" naturally grew too. 

But we can't forget there are also trolls who have fun "spamming" ...

 

 

Twitter-wise: Armys are different? Armys were everywhere promoting BTS. Reaching out to other artist and media. It's easy to retweet. Again all of this didn't really start till 2015 imo. (The first real planned and organized "spam" was with Krizz Kaliko)

 

This promoting on sns could also be due to the fact it's a new generation..but also when it comes to sns, I guess you could say Armys learned from the best lol. BTS had to depend on other platforms like twitter and youtube to promote too.

 

 

 

Saw this and had to log in to reply. 

 

The promo that started in 2013 was just the normal way "nugu group" fans used to try and promote their faves. In fact, I started because of aqua, a Cross Gene fan. The only anomaly I could see was that, BTS was appealing in such a way that the fandom constantly grew at a higher rate than other groups. Eventually, the annoyance about "Any armys here XDD" became a common thing.

 

ARMYs were pretty convinced that it was up to us to promote the boys, because BigHit wasn't doing a great job. Video titles weren't uniform, ibighit uploads were hell to search on youtube, there was little to no broadcast activity outside of promo cycles. Of course it helps that a majority of reactors actually genuinely came to like BTS. We specifically targeted hiphop & dance video fans then, reactors who were also starting to venture into kpop became prime targets.

 

The promotion wasn't just on YouTube, it was also on anything Kpop related. I used to spam ALL my kpop group chats whenever BTS had an update. I'd post links to a new bomb, cover, song, comeback details. There were arguments and complaints but my stance was that my promos can easily be scrolled past in an otherwise active chat room. Eventually, the conditioning worked and most people had ample amount of recall regarding BTS. Not everyone may have become fans, but the interest was there. Somewhere down the line, they will remember BTS should the memory be prompted.

[btstryhard]

 

 

 

 

Thank you both for replying! 

[sus]

True. Most of the time, I fans support the idols who are already famous in Korea(follow the trends) but it's the opposite for bts. But you guys can do that cuz your international fandom is too big. It's a rare case.