Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Tsabar]

8 minutes ago, Posietem said:

None of the girlies you mentioned have supported ranges either. Most of the Weak and W-A vocalists analyzed on the blog hace relaxed ranges rather than supported ranges, similarly to Lia or Mia. The blog had terrible standards and they were too lenient with the definition of support. It's not until the high W-A vocalists that support starts to present itself (shallowly).

 

Lol Lia and Mia are just too weak (Lia less so) why are you giving them as examples ? but Nayeon for example I would give her a range, most of the other W-A have some support and connection in their mid range as well, its not strong at all but is it "just relaxed" ? I wouldn't say so, but there is no fixed standard so you can say whatever you want....

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

10 minutes ago, Posietem said:

Nayeon and Rosé are high W-A who show stronger connection than anyone else listed by the other user. The support is still shallow and they also have other underlying issues (nasality, whinyness, etc.) but the engagement is much more present.

The support standards are way to lenient my friend but you're free to abide by them if you want to.

They are not what ppl consider high W-A, high W-A are Soeun, Denise and others that are almost average but are not strong enough in terms of how they sing throughout.

Didn't understand this last sentence seem like you try to say that my standard is too low ? when we literally agree about Nayeon (just not her place at the tier) but whatever. 

(this user listed only weak vocalists anyway, no w-a)

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

1 minute ago, Posietem said:

....yeah moving on

What do you mean ? I am sorry if I came off as rude...

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:48 PM, Tsabar said:

How is the quick Bb4 in 3:21 ? and the sustained one at 3:01 ? her A4s sound pretty nice here.

 

 

On 9/30/2021 at 5:55 PM, Tsabar said:

Lee Jiyoung seem to be more on the heavier not arguable side of mezzos and her 5th octave isn't particularly well developed (especially above C#5) but she can belt up to around G5/G#5 so I guess that it's not impossible or anything for a mezzo to belt this high.

Btw, is her singing at this height what we can call good mixing (considering her voice type and how incredibly high it is) ?

7:39

 

18:07

 

Can someone answer me ? thanks.

[Tsabar]

1 minute ago, Sarah Oon said:

Since we're exposing fake mezzo's, can we finally put Adele and Christina in the W to A tier since their truly Sopranos who only support to A4 

Adele is a soprano ? if she is she would still be A though, her support is strong enough and her lows are good.

 

 

[Tsabar]

8 hours ago, indigo said:

Adele? See, that would be surprising. 

And I've never been sure if vocal people actually think Christina is a mezzo? 

Adele as a soprano doesn't make sense lol her lower range is good down to like F#3 ? F3 ? and her mix is only acceptable up to A4 or at max B4, A soprano like this with problems around A4 that can support down to F#3ish and have such an ease down to her lower note doesn't make the most sense to me...

Christina is widely agreed on as a soprano, based on what I saw being said.

 

[Tsabar]

46 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

It was actually agreed on her being a mezzo lol

Oh, I saw a lot of ppl on YouTube saying that she is definitely a soprano... 

[Tsabar]

1 hour ago, indigo said:

I also think this is why the whole ranking system from the blog is wrong and unuseful, actually. It's seeking a normal distribution (but without a big chunk of the data lol) for something that might not even have one. 

Can you elaborate on that ? (I am dumb and my english is bad so I didn't quite understand)

(Never mind I think I got it)

Edited October 2, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

On 10/2/2021 at 2:00 AM, Tsabar said:

 

Can someone answer me ? thanks.

I know that we are on the voice typing subject but can someone please answer me...? (and the other few questions people asked)

[Tsabar]

56 minutes ago, KoreaxxLove said:

You said it in a tongue-in-cheek way, but the sentiment behind it wasn’t a joke. I didn’t take it as a jab, and I recognize the hyperbole, but if you didn’t base that in reality, the joke would be sarcasm, and it wasn’t meant to be sarcastic. 
 

I never said it’s about all of her F5s being strained. But she’s not doing what she should be doing up there by former blog standards, and that’s a fact. 
 

If you don’t want proof that your generalization is wrong, then you probably don’t want to generalize. You can’t make a caricature of my argument and ask me not to disprove it, lol. I’ve not once made an argument for a soprano who can’t sing past C5, nor have I made that case for any mezzo who can’t sing past C5. So that’s just irrelevant. And none of the singers I’ve mentioned only sang in that range. Some, however, are sopranos who sing in a similar range as Bey. I’m saying I hope Bey now gets the same treatment, but instead you’re joking about how good she is. It’s literally that simple. 
 

As far as lurkers seeing through the bull, lol, yeah right. If anyone is confident enough it’s bull, they’ll call it out. Otherwise, they’re just expressing disagreement with something that unsettles them and they don’t know how to counter. 
 

Anyway, I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m not making a case for how good or bad Bey is in comparison to anyone else. I’m just asking that she be graded similarly to others who were ridiculed for singing in a similar range or for people to finally admit that singing really well—even in a limited range—is worth more than singing mediocre throughout the range but in a way that’s stylistically acceptable. 

Is Beyonce singing in what is labeled as a limited range ? As far as I know when she was in shape she mixed up to F5ish with good enough consistency, and had decent head voice notes up to like C6, and in her lower range down to Eb3 she was quite consistent so that's a pretty big range where she sing acceptably as far as I understand it.

[Tsabar]

10 minutes ago, KoreaxxLove said:

I don’t think Beyoncé ever consistently sang that low, nor would I say she sang consistently well that high, certainly not in a way that we expect good sopranos to. I was more so directing this to the comments I’ve seen here recently that say she was consistently good until like D5. I haven’t listened to her enough recently to peg it down exactly. 

I see

[Tsabar]

6 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

Just decent ....right lol

 I am trying to not accidentally overrate her but yes it sounds really strong.

[Tsabar]

19 minutes ago, Messica said:

I wouldnt say its her best but its one of her better ones for sure. Those chorus Bb4s and A4s have some resonance in them though.

If what Solar is doing isn't resonance this isn't resonance for sure.

[Tsabar]

59 minutes ago, Messica said:

the argument is that Solar doesnt resonate. But from what I do know and have heard from her, she definitely resonates those notes Jessica has, even better and more consistently.

ZHR and ParkHyoLee recently talked about a standard of resonance that is higher's than the blog's one, this standard is definitely not something Jessica is close to and Solar still didn't achieve it.

[Tsabar]

2 hours ago, Messica said:

The chord coordination was strong, throat was opened, her placement was forward, not pushed at all, soft palate was raised, the sound also used the mask resonance chambers quite well too. The sound had all the conditions for resonance, im not sure what else it needed.

I think that they can reply better than me, but based on what I understood resonance by their standard is this quite optimal “ringing” open round sound (that from all AAs only prime Yuju has accomplished a few times).

Edited October 3, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

@ZRH23/Bassinzo in this short clip of Solar 0:50-1:50 how low is she supporting ? Generally she sound like she have development lower than A3 ... maybe down to G#3 ? She is not very full down there but it doesn’t sound too unfocused.

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

ZRH replied to you a few hours ago did you see it ? Anyway its really not that important in terms of the ranking/level of those vocalists even if they don't produce what one would call optimal resonance or resonance in general its not really cancelling the development they do have.

Idk if those long posts with a ton of fancy terms are necessary lol, Solar's and some other AA's notes are pretty good, strong and open often, no body is denying that, but as ZRH said the standard for resonance was never to defined even to the point of Sunny's notes getting called resonant, so sayings that resonance should be a rounder sound than what Solar/AAs are doing (ussally) make sense to me.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

6 minutes ago, Messica said:

i just edited my post above to show an example of Solar's sound being round enough. But I want to ask you, from your own ears, what the sound is lacking to be resonant.

Those are good notes, however it could be stronger rounder and with more ring like Yuju's Bb4s from this fansign (its in her supported range video) or Ailee's Bb4s in most performances for example.

(I don't think that this example is actually one of her best or anything)

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

19 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

it not a vowel issue it her approach @2:42 it a placement choice (  whiny and lack any fullness ) the only good part is that she's bright which was ideal in the blog standards , obv B4 of solar @3:17 is way fuller and open 

 

 

comparing sunhye B4 ~C#5 here to 

@1:58 which is often used in battle as one of her best C#5 is pushed 

 

@1:44 something that isn't mention is how she place her voice halfway into her nose which result in that sound 

https://youtu.be/x-VbBpJ01CQ

@2:10 you can hear it here too 

quite the contrast with minkyung placement like @0:18 ,@6:19 ,@9:04 ,@12:36

So are you saying that Wheein being placed in high AA was always incorrect ? Her belts back then were for sure stronger than her belts nowadays she had some more open ones I think.

[Tsabar]

2 minutes ago, Posietem said:

Hi ^_^ Jo Yuri (ex-IZ*ONE) has been mentioned several times on this thread, but just to be sure cause the comments are quite spread out:

She's a mid-low average with a supported range of about A3-Bb4, right?

Her A3s are not always there I think, and Bb4 seem right with some B4s being nice.

[Tsabar]

@BabyKBK ppl are talking about Solji 

[Tsabar]

11 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

@Tsabar your girl is on mask king 

 

Yesss she sound great ! (even if I liked her past masked singer performances more), her tone is so easy to recognise lol I think that her voice is the lowest female voice in the K-pop industry (from what I heard) and the timber of it is also quite unique which result in a rare sounding voice, not very fitting for the concept of king of mask bcoz she makes it SO easy.

How well did she do in your opinion ? I will ask about her tier and stuff after making a vocal range video for her, apparently the Vietnamese facebook page and some youtuber already analysed her but I am not sure if their analysis is accurate since low AA seem not fitting.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

14 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

maybe she's a mezzo after all ngl at the first seconds of timeless i thought it was two tenors ,i think she did ok around A3 ~C5 (C5 sound like her limite(?) )  i liked the sustained open Bb4 at the end of the 2nd video i'm not familiar with her ( sounds a bit old school in her approach like 2nd gen kpop groups ) 

You thought that she is a soprano ? interesting bcoz she sound very Mezzo like to me, before making the video I will say that she have support around F#3-B4/C5-E5, she can sing relatively big and open at times but she can also be a pusher, her lows are inconsistent (but down to F#3/G3 sound alright to me), seem higher than AA but I will ask after the video is ready. And yeah she is quite old school with her approach, beside getting chestier she didn't change much throughout her career.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

35 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

higher than AA ? are you sure you're not overrating her 

A mezzo with this range is pretty good, she is handling the upper 4th octave nicely often, if we go by the smallest gap there is between Mezzos and Sopranos she have C#5/D5 as a soprano.

 

35 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

are you sure she support her Head voice ? didn't sound like she was in those two videos i could be wrong but mon petit doigt is telling me she doesn't LOL 

Can't find an E5 rightnow but here are some notes below that:

0:40 D5

3:58 Eb5

2:03 B4

(I think that things will be clearer after the video so we can wait for that)

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

19 hours ago, NoelVys said:

Reading back on the discussions on Lee Younghyun and Big Mama as a whole, where exactly do they place in the tiers? 

I will make videos for Jiyoung and Yona soon so maybe it will be clearer to tell afterward (they are also *possibly* Mezzos which makes ranking them a tad harder since the standard is less established), Younghyung is debatable I guess but somwhere above Good tier seem right, Minhye is likely proficient. 

(Thats only my personal observation so yeah)

Edited October 7, 2021 by Tsabar