Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Tsabar]

55 minutes ago, ZRH23 said:

I'd say Son Seungyeon is the closest to her in terms of mixing, but Haeri has a better grasp at rounding up her vowels the higher she goes, and giving the notes more depth as opposed to SSY going full on brightness. LYH kind of approaches it in a different way, and she's not nearly as open on and above Eb5. plus with the laggy vibrato and sometimes tendency to go too light, I'd say her mixed is slightly below Haeri and SSY. 

I see, is the way she is mixing also related to her being a heavier soprano or just to her technique ?

[Tsabar]

13 minutes ago, ParkHyoLee said:

Also, there's probably going to be an argument about Lee Younghyun vs Haeri since just now there was discussions about considering Haeri's mix to be the best in kpop, even above Son Seungyeon, and both would be above Younghyun. Younghyun still supports higher than both though

What's your input on this ? 

 

7 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

I'm not sure I would give auntie LYH(F#5/G5) she can be quite bit inconsistent 

Can you link some clips where she doesn't support those notes ? HyoLee say that her G#5s are good enough so its a bit weird.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

3 hours ago, Tsabar said:

Can you link some clips where she doesn't support those notes ? HyoLee say that her G#5s are good enough so its a bit weird.

Can someone explain this to me ? in general I find the conversations about Younghyun weird, ppl are always contradicting each other to the point where it almost paints two different pictures... in one Younghyun is a pretty great belter, one of the best in k-pop actually with good development even up to the G5 area, and in the other one she is this mess of a vocalist that somehow have some support on F#5s but is overpraised  so yeah I don't get that... also half related, something funny/weird I noticed is Ahmin saying that what Younghyun is doing on C#5-F#5 isn't very good and isn't as good as what Son Seongyeon is doing, which is fine, I get it, but then for some reason he always "defended" Ailee against Seongyeon saying that their mixes aren't very different in level and that Ailee still have pushed resonance up to like E5/F5 so she can put a fight against the other (and Younghyun is obviously better than Ailee in the fifth octave so if she is not credited for that Ailee doesn't deserve the credit as well).

I know that this is post is a messes and I am sorry but yeah if someone can reply to me it will be awesome 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

Jaime sang an G5-A5 in head voice 2:45-2:48

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

2 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

I'm not contradicting myself lol (and I should have precised that I was talking about her coordination/resonance not support )I was one of the very first people who questioned her technique(after edgar made her live video )belting above Eb5 ....her pitch issues in head voice 

 

I am not saying that you are contradicting yourself, I am saying that what you say about her is contradicting what some others say about her, I watched this vocal range video before but I will watch it again.

[Tsabar]

8 minutes ago, KoreaxxLove said:

This has nothing to do with your post, but I just wanted to point out that Judy wasn't a Boomer. So aside from the quotation being ridiculous in a vocal sense, it also makes zero historical sense. Judy got her training during the Vaudeville era, and her signature hit was released seven years before the start of the Boomer era. Her training came from Vaudeville, Kay Thompson, and (at the time) New York's leading vocal coach and former opera singer Gene Byram. None of these people were Boomers. Did she sing during the time Boomers were being born? Of course. But Judy was already an established celebrity well before the Boomer generation was born and sang to a fanbase consisting of a generation of people born before WWII and with songwriters who were not Boomers, either. In fact, Judy's style of singing was out of fashion by the time most Boomers broke onto the scene (certainly to nearly all who didn't have a blood relation to her). Judy made a remark to this effect by calling her, Streisand, and Ethel Merman the "last of the belters." This statement is debatable for more reasons than one, but it's certainly the case that belting in the sense Judy was referring to (i.e. belting without the need of amplification) was a dying art.  Boomer singers (like Whitney Houston) did not sing in Judy's style and were not able to perform without microphones. Which is ironic because Beyonce draws much more vocal inspiration from the likes of an actual Boomer like Houston than to Judy Garland, who represented an era of singing that predated the period of 1946 and 1964. That's just a side note, though. We can agree to disagree on the comparison between them, but it's a matter of fact that calling her a "white Boomer singer" is just not accurate. 

I didn’t even understand what you are talking about at first, also nice to know that Boomer has an actual definition lol.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

1 minute ago, KoreaxxLove said:

Yeah, I've been ignoring it for a while. I just thought it might be worth noting since we're all in here correcting misconceptions. 

Sure, I don’t see a problem with you pointing it out if Boomer really isn’t the right word to use ...

[Tsabar]

Thanks for all the replies, I like to hear the different perspectives you all have, and I will definitely think about it, in case someone want to listen to a different video that focus on her upper belts I found this one:

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:37 AM, ZRH23 said:

I think I wanna hear back the extent of ALi's throatiness... 

The throatiest moments I heard from her are when she covered I believe I can fly:

But in her musical and in some of her covers and concert performances she have nice moments, so the throatiness seem to be partly a choice and partly a flaw, anyway C5 is a consistent note for her in most performances.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

9 minutes ago, Posietem said:

Also my dude, I don't mean to be rude but please use more commas when you write long paragraphs, this post was kinda hard to read.

 Kinda unnecessary to say, not all of us are fluent english speakers nor exceptional or even decent writers or whatever, for me personally using more commas/writing more correctly when writing in a language I am not fluent in require a bit more effort which sometimes I am not putting into my posts for different reasons (the main reason is that posting on an online thread isn't that serious), his post was pretty much readable and understandable to me.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

1 minute ago, NMSyamin said:

Between AA & AA-P idols, Can i know their latest mix supported range? I Guess

1. Yerin 15& duo -- D5/Eb5
2. Bada S.E.S -- C#5/D5
3. Solji EXID (I believe that she'd improved her D5 recently)so its still C5/C#5 or its safe to give her C#5/D5?
4. Raina After School (I believe she didn't had enough D5 to give her that ) probably still C5/C#5
5. Solar Mamamoo -- C#5
6. Wheein Mamamoo -- C#5
7. Yuju Gfriend -- C5/C#5
8. Bohyung Spica -- C5/C#5
9. Narsha BEG -- C5/C#5
10. Minkyung Davichi duo -- C5/C#5
11. Sunye -- C#5
12. Seunghee -- C5
13. Hwasa -- C5
14. Dana CSJH The Grace -- B4/C5
15. Yechan -- B4/C5
16. Jea -- B4/C5

Bada is still proficient.

[Tsabar]

14 minutes ago, Posietem said:

Speaking of! Does anyone remember where exactly she was placed? I think she was at the bottom right?

To those people who are familiar with Bada, would you place her above or below Jamie now that we've kind of pushed her to the bottom too?

She was at the bottom as far as the blog said, I think that she have better C5-D5 than Jaime I am not sure though.

[Tsabar]

1 hour ago, BabyKBK said:

I disagree with Solji having C#5/D5, but I consider her above Solar because, 

A) Her lower range is fuller with support down to G3/G#3 and tone maintained down to E3.

B) The quality of her support is fuller in her mixed voice up to C#5.

C) She has better mixing which allows her to sing above C#5 with more ease and land supported D5s occasionally.

D) She pushes less in her mix up to C5/C#5.

 

Lower range:

2:38 - 2:56 I have never heard G#3s and G3 with this fullness and degree of support from Solar.

 

Mixing:

1:52 I have never heard Solar bring this sort of mixing up to E5s and D5s

 

2:48 - 3:32 onward D5s and E5s better than anything I ever hear from Solar, some D5s are supported

 

Mixed Voice (general and overall)

Even though Solji is less open with weird vowels and less good placement, she is less pushed with a fuller sound

1:54 C#5 then Bb4s

 

2:46 Pretty relaxed and strong C5s

 

With D5s, she is becoming more consistent but it's still very borderline support/too much pushing. Her C#5s are consistent though, this year is her best on that note with frequency of support. These are some D5s I consider supported and passable:

 

3:28

 

3:16 and 3:25

 

13:40 & 13:56

 

1:30

 

2:38

The difference between them is so small though, especially when I am pretty sure that Solar's lows aren't stopping at A3, and she is closer than Solji to the open sound that is valued.

A comparison we didn't make until now is in the upper register, did you look at this aspect enough to know who is better ?

Edited September 28, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

4 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

That's right the difference is small, I imagine the gap like how close Solar/Wheein were on the old chart (I thought Solar was better but this is just to make a visual).

Both of their upper registers need to be better connected lol. I know Solji can produce a relaxed falsetto up to F#5, do you have any perfs where Solar sang in a falsetto/head voice I'm intrigued.

6:56 falsetto F#5s

 

Some Solar upper register:

F#5s 1:07, 1:14

Eb5 1:27

 

D5/Eb5 2:24, 2:34.

 

 

And about her lows, can someone tell me how she is doing below A3 in those clips ? a lot of those notes are so quick that I am pretty sure that my pitch is wrong with them sorry in advance for this.

0:13-0:28, 1:17-1:31 phrasing down to around F3, G#3s seem good.

 

G3/G#3s 0:19, 0:33, 0:35, 0:37, 0:38, 0:52, throughout the verses in general.

 

 

Some quick G#3s 0:43, 1:00, 1:05, 1:10, 1:24, 1:27,  2:39, 3:03.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

1 minute ago, Posietem said:

I love how Solar avoids using her upper register so much that her only 2 notable moments are of the exact same song where you're like... Morally obligated to sing those parts in head voice/falsetto, lol.

 

She have other performances with it but it usually not above Eb5, so I choose those moments bcoz I wanted recent performances.

[Tsabar]

Just now, Posietem said:

Falsetto is the one thing Wheein still has over her I think.

Yes Wheein keep it relaxed much higher and can have some limited connection.

[Tsabar]

2 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

Yeah around mid but still above wheein 

Bcoz of her other registers or bcoz of her mix ?

[Tsabar]

19 hours ago, ZRH23 said:

Maybe I'll make a post on it later but I find that ALi really does have questionable moments of throatiness that I don't think can always be written of stylistic yet...all the way down to A4s . 

Plus her presence in her midrange and lower range is really not very impressive, especially as a mezzo. Just something that I'm hearing as I listened to her performances. She's definitely not above Taeyeon/Eunji for sure.

Here are some clips of her musical theater songs:

And some other clips where she does't sound terribly throaty:

 

[Tsabar]

12 minutes ago, BAZISSINO said:

We've actually discussed all those videos including the last one 

 

Oh great ! so where will you place her in the proficient tier ? when she do good its relatively impressive for a mezzo but when she is bad she is really unimpressive.

[Tsabar]

Someone said that Hynn sound similar to Ailee, I hear it now:

 

[Tsabar]

What is Nayul's tier ?

[Tsabar]

26 minutes ago, Renner said:

Since many disagree with the standard of resonance from the blog a few pages back would y’all say Tiffany also didn’t really produce any resonance? like in that A Whole New World performance.

Even Mamamoo didn't produced resonance to the standard ZRH recently kinda established so expecting any average to produce that sound is not fair.

[Tsabar]

1 hour ago, NMSyamin said:

5.How about the position of Seunghee OMG,Kei Lovelyz,Sejeong Gugudan and WJSN Dawon & Yeonjung , i thought all of them are atleast low AA and Yeonjung was top Average?

I think that none of them is AA actually, they are all ranging from mid-high A to mid high A-AA.

[Tsabar]

1 hour ago, ZRH23 said:

I also know that the argument that Bey only sings up to F5/F#5 isn't a good proof that she's a mezzo lmao I was just suggesting that it made sense for her to so if that was the case. 

Lee Jiyoung seem to be more on the heavier not arguable side of mezzos and her 5th octave isn't particularly well developed (especially above C#5) but she can belt up to around G5/G#5 so I guess that it's not impossible or anything for a mezzo to belt this high.

Btw, is her singing at this height what we can call good mixing (considering her voice type and how incredibly high it is) ?

7:39

 

18:07

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tsabar

[Tsabar]

How is the quick Bb4 in 3:21 ? and the sustained one at 3:01 ? her A4s sound pretty nice here.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tsabar