Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

Her G3s seem solid?!! 0:19 it quite and lack cord connection i don't hear that sorry . A3 is her limit even ON Bb3 it not that solid and projected she didn't improve it the same demi ... U know how people like to overrate everyone they stan / whenever i Go i read people saying someone in improving lol

Well, by solid I meant full of tone which you have to admit, she does have. Her tone carries all the way down to C#3 quite clearly, but support only at A3/Bb3 perhaps. The G3s (for the most parts) weren't bad at all but it wasn't supported. Her support didnt carry all the way down there, which would explain the pitchiness of the low notes despite a lot of tone. I think a few might be supported though, if not, they're not far from it.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

yeah it carry tone But there's a Clear drop of support ... Perhaps?!! that what she showed that not me lol tbh i don't hear a lot of tone you're hearing i didn't hear any G3 supported in that performance . AGAIN her low Range never was extraordinary and for me she's FAR from supporting G3 cause the support On the LOW RANGE as a whole isn't solid let her support A3 properly then we can talk about G3

Hm, there's nothing to compare the G3s with so much in this cover or her album in fact, she tends to sing below G3 often but not the Bb3 area. I don't know if there's indeed a clear drop of support but I guess we hear different things.

The one you time stamped was flimsy, yes, but the ones before that didnt seem bad. And some of the ones after that as well. It's on and off. She can't manage that low properly so that's why her pitch wasn't centered down there so yeah, that's obvious. But it's better than what I've seen from her. She's not going airy nor did she lower her larynx (for most of it anyways.).

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

I never got into her songs so this might be ignorant, but was this ever posted here? (go to 3:41)

 

no idea if this is accurate. At any rate, it does sound like her style changed. Everything's stylistic, just like how there's no such thing as no accent. I'm still unsure what's up with the average female speaking pitch G3 being seen as a challenge. Demi seems to speak

more often actually.

Oh, I know that video. That was just bad but also a few years ago. I was hoping to see some change but she's... Really inconsistent lol.

 

Ah, she speaks around G3 ...explains the tone she carries tbh.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Hey guys I really want to know who is a better singer out of these two? There's not much live vocal material but I hope their songs can be helpful enough .

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are both quite shallow. I'd say Jinsoul is better but not by a lot at all. Jinsoul's a bit more relaxed overall, I think.

EDIT: this wrong, ignore this lol. KimLip is better. Studio tracks are very questionable tho.

That was early 2015, which she used to push a lot in her mix. Like A LOT. But ever since mid 2016 she started to drop the pushing a bit and her mix is lighter.

 

 

these may not be so special but they're latest lol

 

the Bb4 at 2:53 is quite nice

 

 

 

Hallelujah- A lot of pushing throughout. The Bb4 was more opened and projected but still not really relaxed. I wonder if this is fatigue or she just never really improved at all.

 

Father- Beautiful song but there were barely any good moments. Her low notes weren't projected nicely and the chorus is just...well. strained.

 

Skyscraper- I compared this live performance to the ones when the song was just released. Quite a lot of differences. Throughout the choruses, she made the vowels really tight. Her vibrato is very laggy...

 

Her performances were not really satisfying. She's pushing throughout and it sounds like she has a lot of tension, even when singing the verses. She's not relaxing and she's constricting her throat too much lol. I could be wrong but I dont hear an improvements or she might have just gotten worse. She sounds tired tho, she needs rest.

Edited November 26, 2017 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

The only improvement I could think of is

 

1. Her mix is getting lighter and she had more ease in the upper register compared to last year

 

2. When you compare it to 2014. She badly damaged her voice back then after touring. Her voice became so dark and raspy and she even strain as low as Bb4. 

 

2014 (That awful sustained B4 at 2:15)

 

compared to this 

2017 (sustained B4 at 1:09)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQCsGp7kkyo

 

 

Fortunately she somehow managed to retain her support up to C5 after some time around 2015 but sadly, she no longer produces resonance, well at least consistently. Cuz this is very arguable and I don't have that much keen ears to identify it properly lol 

 

And yes, her voice is very tired. Ever since her album release, she sings almost every night. So yeah it is mostly because of fatigue because all of those performances that i posted earlier are after her album release.

 

Like this Skyscraper was way better. The vowels were much more open and she was more relaxed. Like the D5 at 2:54 in the last chorus had less tension and less throaty. (this was before her album release and where she doesn't sing as much she is currently now)

2014 is a year full of inconsistencies for Demi. The B4s weren't all bad though some are strained. Some B4s were nicely opened. I don't hear a major difference in 2017. there's still a bit of pushing. She is a bit lighter and well rested though.

 

Also can someone give an opinion on these. I'm not an expert but I do feel like there are a few things that can be argued in these videos lol.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCkO5NLkiNQ

For the first video, she might have had C5/C#5 (or consistently C#5) early in her career. but for the past few years, she hasn't done enough good C#5s to say that she could handle it. I could only think of 2 times where she did a nice C#5 after the La La Land era.

 

The second video started off okay. Until they started saying that Demi lowered her larynx to increase resonance. Then said that the G5 in For You was resonant. Then I just stopped watching lol. The For You performance had some very nice C5s until the vibrato came in, the G5 was definitely strained but has better mixing than the ones she'd usually do.

 

 

 

 

That's just...painful

Edited November 20, 2017 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

I actually thought her vocals would be a little bit better since she hasn't sung for so long

 

But no, they get worse each day even when she's not actively singing anymore.

 

Even the E4s have a lot of tension 

 

 

was the C5s in For You resonant there? Cuz some says they are and some says it's reverb. And this what bothers me if Demi can actually produce resonance or not after her vocal damage back in 2014.

 

Like are these really resonant notes??? ( 0:42 and 1:17 for after 2014 era)

 

 

But yeah Demi's improvements are just really some minor things like lighter mix and more ease. I don't really know why people say she improved so much in a year lol

0.12, sounded nice until the vibrato came in.

0.16. not sure if I'd call it resonant, but it's nicely supported and open. 

At 0.21, supported nicely but it wasn't opened. A bit nasal perhaps, the quality is unclear. 0.25, that might be resonant but I'm not sure.

0.28, again the quality confuses me. But it does have nice support. Maybe resonant.

0.43, this is resonant, I think.

0.50 and 0.57, the quality is really frustrating y'know. To be safe, it's nice and open. Maybe resonant but the quality is not the best.

1.02, Yasss resonant C#5. A bit pushed but really nice placement.

1.10. Well, the quality just keeps getting worse XD. I can't hear.

The phrased C5/C#5s after that... they're supported and open. A bit pushed but they had nice placement.

[ZRH23]

was the For You C5 in the Vocal Profile video resonant? Sorry for asking too much XD

Oh those are resonant. Until the ugly vibrato kicked in. Those got me shook lol. Oh, it's fine XD, I like questions. Take my answers with a grain of salt tho, I may not be correct.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Well I guess she can produce resonance and support a C#5 after her vocal damage albeit rarely. All she needs is to fix her consistency because that's what's always holding her down for the most part.

 

Thanks mom

The decline started around Neon Lights but even then she had at least 2 resonant C#5s during her tour lol. Not in Neon Lights but I remember the lyrics being 'I should've known beeeeee (the C#5) tter!'. Her technique nowadays is getting worse cause she always belts so high all the time, the tension up there is brought to even as low as B4. Sigh.

 

Mom!? I'm a dude and probs younger than you are XD

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Oh you mean the C#5 at 2:41? Oh yeah totally forgot about this one. It was right after the tour I think. It's one of her best notes ever imo

 

 

really? How old are you? I just turned 18 earlier this year XD

 

My bad XD But I'm also a dude so... haha

Ah yes, that one! The run after that...😅. Yikes.

 

Mhm, I'm definitely younger. I'll let you decide how old I am lol.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Well her runs are always a mess so I don't expect much from her lol

 

Oh wow really? I'm bad at guessing so I guess 16? 17? idk XD

Hmmmm. Not really. I'm 15...more or less.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

I hope your recent posts have made people think you're less scary cause you're downright goofy sometimes 

Also, I need help   What exactly would you call this... offensive(?) quality that Lee Haeri has to her singing? Her singing is "resonant", but she has this really abrasive/sharp/not sure what to call it quality to her singing. I don't think it's throatiness. Is the explanation for it just that she has a naturally uhhh bright timbre  ?

 

1:33 is the best example of it and 1:48 it's there sort of too

 

 

 

Ooh yeah, Lee Haeri's timbre is quite an acquired taste and I absolutely love it lmao. It's definitely not throaty, it's not that rough and gritty and it those notes were resonant anyways lol. I'm not sure if there's a specific adjective that could be used to describe it but I guess it has a sharp/harsh/piercing quality to it, at times. I wonder if metallic/steely is appropriate. Because that's what i hear from her, very...I don't know, steel-like XD

[ZRH23]

I would say that she is resonant, and I honestly did want to say "metallic"/ "steely", which is why it's a big question mark for me.  I want to be sure it's not some weird mechanical thing she's doing that gives her this quality to her voice and that it's an inherent quality of her voice

It's quite rare to hear Haeri having such flaws like thoatiness or nasality and such in her mix register. She's that good in her mix. So any questionable quality that comes up when she sings around A4-Eb5 (the best parts of her mix) will, most probably, either be caused by her vibrato because that's one of her only problems in the mix, or if she's tired or it's just simply her tone. Personally, I absolutely love her tone. But not everybody enjoys it apparently.

[ZRH23]

 

Can you guys rate my future husband Calum Scott's vocal ability?

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNEb9jHPdc

 

 

 

He seems to be much more of a stylistic singer than a technical one. I didn't watch all fully so I might have missed a few things. The first video, I think he was trying to make his color shine out more and so he settled to be more unique, A.K.A, messing out with your voice in as many ways as possible to sound different.

 

He is a tenor, definitely. The second video was nicer, much more relaxed. There were still some questionable stylistic choices but overall, he wasn't bad. The F#4s/G4s in the chorus weren't too pushed. I'm not sure if he has strong support...doesn't seem like it but I could be wrong.

The uploader's got Xtina fanboy videos so I felt like maybe they're open-minded. I was reading the comments too, thinking of posting something since people's ideas about this are so weird. "tf is a larynx isn't that an animal" oh man!

The Whitney comment chain was amusing because of the dogma about neutral larynx. Where did this even come from? In the first place the concept of a neutral position is a fiction. Like what is the neutral position of your elbow/forearm, another body part with opposing muscles? Natural is purely informed by whatever you're exposed to most often, not biology. It's all intentional to some degree, including speaking voices. Even Seth Riggs the SLS man doesn't use the word "stable"

(8:00, he quickly stops making sense after a few seconds)

 

I've also heard of Estill Voice Training and Complete Vocal Technique systems that both specifically teach using various elevations.

 

Internet communities like YouTube's can be surprisingly insular. Those two Demi Lovato vocal profile videos mirror each other in language and ideas a lot, like fach, resonance only starts at A4, whistle register. There's a mere-exposure effect going on for sure. This knowledge is a wee bit questionable if anyone takes the effort to question it

Yup, Youtube videos about vocals are so cringy to watch at times...I think they all got he information from the same source, instead of relying on their own ears. And then they decided it was okay to make up a few things along the way as well lol. If you watch the rest of the video, more bullshit is about to come. I mean, anybody saying Demi is capable of complex runs at the start of the video, their knowledge is already very questionable XD

 

only thing that stands out to me is at the end of the note it sounds a little like she's crying, which I might associate with those adjectives. Singwise lady has videos about cry/sob qualities, EVT terms and I think I prefer these descriptions over equivalents like CVT's curbing. Examples @2:25

 

Could it be this?

The pop examples... other than Lea Michele, nobody there has good technique lol. Not sure if this is advisable...the classical examples sounds more like they're potraying the emotions more than anything. I don't hear it from Haeri though. Maybe a bit when she sings sad songs but it's not a very prominent quality from her. Using this crying thing can go wrong in so many ways tbh.

[ZRH23]

Where's the guy who knows all about voice types I have a question

Lmao. I'm assuming you're referring to C.Y.?

[ZRH23]

These were the words I were looking for thankiesss. I ordinarily write off lots of things as vowel shaping and coordination now, but Haeri has always confused me, so

 

 

Sent from my LG-H873 using OneHallyu mobile app

Confused you? How? She always sings with a bright mix, balanced but at times more towards the heady side. But I do believe she has control of the ratios in her mix. And vowel shaping? You asked about timbre lol.

 

Ah...never mind. I suppose I misread your question lol. And I don't know enough to explain either ^^.

 

sent from your mom.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

Never did I expect to see that guy from Supergirl as a good singer. Neither did I ever see him slaying Let It Go from Frozen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q7rbNKkU3I

 

And he did both..I am SHOOK.

It turns out he's a Broadway actor and he really impressed me with his technique. 0.48, Bb2 seems nice and at 1.07, he lowered his larynx for that Bb2 (obviously stylistic) but it still sounds nice. 3.43, the A4 was so nice to hear! The weird thing about Let It Go is whenever people sing the climax, they either: a) be on-key but the note itself could be more open/strained, b) be resonant but surprisingly flat (ehem, Son Seungyeon), c) just straight out flat and strained. Jeremy Jordan's rendition is the first one that I'm actually impressed with the climax LOL. 

 

 

 

And this too...and I thought Beyonce's version was impressive, this really gave me an eargasm. So many resonant moments... 3.24 - 3.26, nice riffs, I hear a quick but nice Bb4 there. 3.35 - 3.38, very nice runs there and oh, love the A4! 3.43, very nice G#4 and G4. 4.27, The A4 made me bald from the resonance. 1.45, I'm not sure what note that is, C#3 maybe but that is really nice too.

 

Just from these two videos, he's probably got a solid Bb2-A4 range covered. Maybe Bb4 but there's not enough to hear.

Edited November 28, 2017 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

Mitch rendition is not bad too with more dynamic than Jeremy and supported B4

I'm not sure about the dynamics thing, I'd say Jeremy Jordan was better at that. But both of their musicianship skills are on point. I prefer Jeremy's rendition though because overall, the performance was more or less flawless, very fitting for his range, Bb2-A4. Mitch on the other hand, even though a resonanted a B4, his climax note (C#5) irritated me when listening to it cause it just doesn't hit the mark. He definitely doesn't have C#5 yet and that belt ruined it for me lol.

But they're both not very far apart, vocal wise.

Edited November 29, 2017 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

DYnamic i meant he used more head voice in his rendition ... actually mitch don't have that much of a strong low range i'm not sure of anything below Eb3

I just checked Mitch's vocal range video, it seems like his lower range isn't bad at all. Perhaps C#3? He doesn't go down there often but C3 seems a bit too soft..I'm not sure. His head voice is nice too. But it is a bit inconsistent... I'd say E5 is the highest where he is consistent. He always tries to 'belt' his head voice so it's pretty pushed.

[ZRH23]

Yo is this resonant at  2:52 ???

 

and what note is that 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l2MRdaU5GM

Do you mean the vibrato part or the sustained 'Christmas'? The vibrato part...well, still wasn't good. No resonance, only her messy vibrato on the Bb4. The sustained 'Christmas' is a C5, I believe. I don't think it's resonant. It's not well placed...a bit stuck in her throat and she's pushing too much. I'm not sure if it's even supported, really.

[ZRH23]

i meant the sustained one

 

really? lmao. idk why i hear it as resonant 

Well, I could be wrong, of course but I'd bet that it's not lol. I could see how you could confuse it tho, it IS opened. Not as closed as she could've made it but it didn't sound well projected. It didn't sound forward enough and I hear a bit of screechy quality to it too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt643LhQ3BQ

 

You could use these to compare. From 0.50 till 1.50, all of them, I believe, are resonant. The others are more or less supported.

[ZRH23]

it was a B2 in the Frozen song and it was incredibly weaksauce, c'mon raise your standards a little you're a baritone brah lol. nah I actually don't care if a tenor can't sing that well below a C3, or a baritone below G#2, or a soprano below F#3/G3. I mean it's a very nice bonus if you can but it's good enough for me.

 

speaking of low notes, Johnny Cash's chest voice tho...for a baritone, crazy--he was a true heavy baritone. He couldn't sing high for shit lol but still.

E2 @ 0:43, Eb2 @ 1:00, C#2 @ 1:46

 

 

Interesting.. I'm on a personal journey of having to forget using strong chest voice in the middle and upper voice LOL because unfortunately I can't get away with lowering the larynx much as a baritone in contemporary/popular genres.

 

but yeah, sounds exciting! as for me...nada, barely even have time to practice at all ;__;

gonna take a voice class and choir next year though, I'm trying to see if I may have a genuine interest in completely changing fields to study voice education or if it's just something that only sounds nice in my imagination...maybe performance but education would be a better idea

Lmao. Okay then, he doesn't have anything in the 2nd octave lol. I'm really not good at judging the lower range, I tend to give a lot of benefit of the doubt. It's hard to differentiate if it's supported or not supported. Especially in cases like Jeremy Jordan or Demi Lovato, where they don't really lower their larynx (JJ did but it sounds kinda on purpose and Demi is inconsistent af) and the low notes are not airy but are full of tone.

 

I wish someone could enlighten this for me lol. Because I get confused as sometimes, Uji for example, sang quite softly around Eb3/E3 and a bit airy but it actually has proper connection to the chest and it didn't really have a drop of support, Ahmin said. And that's what I supposedly hear from other people too so I'm confused AF.

 

Lol, yes I'm a baritone but my low notes aren't great. Now that I think about it, it's the same situation. I don't lower my larynx, I don't become airy and I have a lot of tone until, like, D2/C#2. But I dont think I even support G2.

C#3 no i would just give him Eb3 for head voice he goes for a masky one most of the time but he does have a pure head voice supported up F#5

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Well, I'm not going to argue over lower ranges anymore lol. Unless it's blatantly obvious. Hm, he can have a nice head voice up there. That's what I said, it doesn't seem consistent. Maybe it's stylistic but when he uses the masky head voice, I wouldn't say F5/F#5 is supported. They're a bit shrill and pushed, to me. For someone like Mitch, I actually expected a fairly impressive head voice. I mean, it's still impressive now but I kinda expected Ryeowook/Jung Dongha level of head voice.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

u mention Ryeowook when Park hyo shin got better coordination and management of his head voice lol ..... anyways i was quite surprised he went that high while maintaining support .... it seems he prefers the masky placement it not uncommon for tenors i gave him D5/Eb5 in the past but i need to look more into his lives

you can clearly hear he use both masky and pure head up G5

I am not familiar with Park Hyoshin other than that he is inconsistent with his C5s lol. I didnt know him so I didn't mention him. Ryeowook in general is pretty inconsistent these days too.

 

Anyways, yes I already know Mitch has good moments up to G5. But from the G5s showcased, 2 are good and 2 are not. The F#5s, do not sound good but then again, it MIGHT be a stylistic choice so I am still skeptical. His F5s are the same case, some are squeezed and tight while some have very nice production. So, I am still skeptical about whether it's stylistic or not because there hasn't been enough for me to hear lol. Maybe he does have G5 consistently but I'd love to hear good F5/F#5s too because so far, it can seem like he got lucky.

 

Fine, for the benefit of the doubt, let's assume he's got F#5/G5. Based on purely consistency, maybe E5/F5. Cuz if he uses mask placement on the F5s-G5s they really don't sound good, strained even.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

PARK Hyo shin is one of big dogs of head voice he's stronger than Ryeowook, I didn't talk about support when it comes to mitch i was talking about placement cause some people smh don't know he got a pure head voice not just the loud masky one

that range video is quite old .... i believe he improved but it hard to be sure without that much live material

Ah, I see. Okay. When he uses head placement, it does seem to have better support than when he uses his mask placement. Like the G5 In Bohemian Rhapsody that he made in the video, that was nice.

 

sent from your mom.

[ZRH23]

Had to link my home girl 

 

starts at 0:19

 

 

Love her vowel shaping + coordination here. She's ordinarily "chesty", but has some interesting vowel shaping that doesn't allow for a lot of release, especially as she approaches the C#5 area, but here she sounds soooo good  

Also plugging Kween's E5 here at 0:22 cause why not  

 

 

Okay wow, that's an old episode of Weekly Idol but I haven't seen that before. Yas! The mics practically blew up at C#5 lol. Ailee's vowel shaping is very nice and she's not pushing so her throat shape ain't messed up as she usually does so this is very nice. I wish she could sing like this more often.

 

And damn, Sohyang's volume output is bigger than I thought lol. Slayyy

[ZRH23]

hi everyone! first time posting here and also first time someone mentions golden child's main vocal joochan (they debuted this year as infinite's hoobaes).

so, after a few months checking them (even though there's few to almost no material at all), i'm almost sure he's the only one that might actually stand a chance of having a proper support (out of 11, what's pretty bad lmao). so please, if you could, let me know what you think about these performances:

 

 

 

0:33-0:55/1:35-1:55 there's tons of F#4-G4-G#4

0:38 sustained E4

3:14 sustained F#4

 

 

0:05 F#4

0:19 G4

0:23-0:30 G4-F#4

0:43 A4-G#4

 

 

with the few i've learned, i could only notice a placement on the mascara, thus too much nasality. and as for support, i can't really put my finger on. i just know for sure the A4 is out, but for me even G#4's sound effortless.

 

as i said, i don't think i know much so, if i'm wrong about the supported notes, i would love for you to explain why ^^

 

Oh okay, finally a male vocalist that can actually support and not strain their way through songs. You should also post these at the KpopVocalAnalysis blog, I'd really prefer Ahmin answer these lol. But I'll take a look at these...

 

First video: Ooh, he's cute. His looks distracted me there lol. Ah, it's nice to hear him supporting nicely. He is singing very lightly but it's nicely controlled. Yeah, he's got F#4 down, that's nice! Hm, he's phrased G#4s aren't bad cuz he is mixing nicely, the placement isn't bad too, I think. But I wouldn't say it's supported. It got a bit tight and more squeezed than the F#4s so the support is not as strong but he's really not straining. Not sure about where the G4s are but he seems to be doing nicely in that part.

 

0.48. the E4 was nice, sounded pretty easy to him. His mixing is also a bit more chesty so I guess he can control his mix nicely. I like his timbre. He is supporting throughout, 1.18, that's a nice F4. Again, more balanced than earlier. 3.14, yup, he's definitely got F#4 down.

 

Second video: His hair isn't as nice, therefore he ain't as cute lol. He is still supporting but I think he sounds less nice here...not sure. He is singing lightly but the sound isn't forward enough, I think. 0.05, supported. 0.19, not bad but the vowel wasn't helping lol, it was tight. Not supported but the vowel is an issue as well. Uh-oh, he doesn't seem to have a nice upper register. That falsetto was almost pure air. 0.23, if there was a G4 (I'm not checking the notes) then it sounds pretty nice, maybe supported. 0.27, sustained F#4, supported but the sound isn't placed forward enough. If anything, it sounds like it's pulled a bit into the throat. Could be better. 0.41, yeah that's almost just air. 0.43, sounds more like G#4-G4 to me. G#4, there was a bit of crack there but still not that bad, G4 was also not bad but again, damn vowels. It was tight but it didn't sound strained.

 

 

Overall, he seems pretty solid to me. His mixing is nice and I think he can control it to be more balanced if he wanted to. He's got F#4 down, his lower range is unknown but his upper register...yeah, not impressive. He seems to be doing nicely with trills as well. G4 is a question mark and G#4 is not bad but he's not there yet. What else... he doesn't produce resonance, not open enough. Oh, he's pretty much similar to NCT's Taeil lol. But go ask at the blog, I'm curious as well. I might be wrong or left some parts out.

 

Oh, and he isn't nasal. Placement on...mascara??? You mean, mask? lol. I suppose so but he's not forward enough. He looks pretty young too...hm, born in 1999 apparently.

Edited December 5, 2017 by ZRH23