Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[moriadler]

But he might just be an untrained baritone. His voice is kinda darker in his middle voice, which is why I have my doubts about him being a tenor. He's not a spinto tho. His voice isn't as huge to be considered a spinto.

 

He's already 27 so I don't think he can be trained anymore at this point. If he's really comfortable in the lower range, he would have done so. No doubt that he has a very dark tone in his chest/mixed but it's more like an attribute to his tenor voice than anything else. A singer can train their middle voice to the quality that's often attributed to a different voice type.

For instance, Rosa Ponselle is widely classified as a dramatic soprano, but there used to be a debate about whether she's by nature a mezzo or not because her chest voice has a full, rich, dark texture of a mezzo. The end of the debate is that she just utilized a certain technique that helps her to produce a unique tonal quality in that range, but pretty much her sound in the higher range is of a soprano. I think a similar case may apply to Yesung, idk. He's not classically trained so it's even more difficult to assign the exact voice type for him.

 

Edit: I still think his voice fits the spinto label the most. His voice is still pretty full up to B4, fitting the spinto range and idk, I think it's 'huge' enough.

[moriadler]

lol no. That's my friend. He helped with the video.....and those captions lmao.

 

Beside the flawless analysis, those captions are gold!

[moriadler]

this video is actually really nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOtxc56Jc_E

Good F#4's, G4's, G#4's and A4's and even a nice B4 (quick but nice) His tone is never gonna entice me but his technique is very sharp~

 

The other day when I tried to defend Taemin's voice (I'm nowhere near a Shawol), one Shawol told me I'm an idiot if I think that Taemin suddenly is better than Onew after his performances in IS2. I was like: yeah, why is it so hard to believe that Taemin has gotten this far.

 

I swear I have never seen a fandom that underestimate their own member's vocal ability that much like Shawols towards Taemin.

[akisame]

Hmm I don't think so. A normal baritone tessitura is around G2-G4/Ab4 but his lower register is too airy and lacks support to be a baritone (watch his cover of That man). He's pushing a spinto tenor, at most.

Which is why I caled him a baritenor.

[VISION]

He's already 27 so I don't think he can be trained anymore at this point. If he's really comfortable in the lower range, he would have done so. No doubt that he has a very dark tone in his chest/mixed but it's more like an attribute to his tenor voice than anything else. A singer can train their middle voice to the quality that's often attributed to a different voice type.

For instance, Rosa Ponselle is widely classified as a dramatic soprano, but there used to be a debate about whether she's by nature a mezzo or not because her chest voice has a full, rich, dark texture of a mezzo. The end of the debate is that she just utilized a certain technique that helps her to produce a unique tonal quality in that range, but pretty much her sound in the higher range is of a soprano. I think a similar case may apply to Yesung, idk. He's not classically trained so it's even more difficult to assign the exact voice type for him.

 

Edit: I still think his voice fits the spinto label the most. His voice is still pretty full up to B4, fitting the spinto range and idk, I think it's 'huge' enough.

 

True. But he hasn't trained his voice to its full potential, so we have no idea how he might sound the upper range, in order to determine what exactly his voice type is. As for your example, well since Rosa has a soprano sound in the higher range, then she's definitely a soprano. Her chest voice having that dark rich texture is irrelevant since you don't really focus on the sound in the chest voice when telling someone's voice type lol. Same applies to Renee Fleming who has a quite dark sound despite being a full lyric soprano. But thx I didn't know you could use a specific technique to help produce a different tonal quality in that range.

 

I still doubt he's a spinto tho. I don't think his voice is that full up there. His column of sound also tells me otherwise. He isn't loud enough to possess a medium volume of a spinto.

[lepidoptery]

No. A bad hearing doesn't mean no resonance. Demi has bad sense of key, yet is resonant many times.

I didn't think it would....

 

A lot of people seem to confuse vocal range with voice type quite a bit.  Like they assume if someone can reliably hit low notes they must be a bass or baritone.  Is it because vocal tessitura isn't well known to non-singers?

Aside from SM's shenanigans, even if they had singing experience themselves, it would be mostly in a school/church choir or something, and I don't think they do proper voice placements usually, just put you in whatever section that has notes you can fit.  Vocal tessitura was not mentioned in any of the school choirs I've ever sung in, either.

 

Ew @ oppa. LOL and oh~ Okay then yes~ Except for me 

(... but aki is a girl? XD)

 

The other day when I tried to defend Taemin's voice (I'm nowhere near a Shawol), one Shawol told me I'm an idiot if I think that Taemin suddenly is better than Onew after his performances in IS2. I was like: yeah, why is it so hard to believe that Taemin has gotten this far.

 

I swear I have never seen a fandom that underestimate their own member's vocal ability that much like Shawols towards Taemin.

If he were both the best dancer and the best/second-best singer, and I think he's probably second visual or something, what does he need the rest of them for???  (Rapping is optional in SM anyway. >.>)  I guess Taemin fans might even try to downplay it to keep peace within the fandom.  I wouldn't know, though. XD;;

[moriadler]

Which is why I caled him a baritenor.

 

Fair enough. I thought you wrote straight out baritone.   But that's a very good term actually. It's used in classical music to describe young singers who are in the middle of training to determine which voice type fits them the most, so here it somewhat applies to Yesung's case.

 

True. But he hasn't trained his voice to its full potential, so we have no idea how he might sound the upper range, in order to determine what exactly his voice type is. As for your example, well since Rosa has a soprano sound in the higher range, then she's definitely a soprano. Her chest voice having that dark rich texture is irrelevant since you don't really focus on the sound in the chest voice when telling someone's voice type lol. Same applies to Renee Fleming who has a quite dark sound despite being a full lyric soprano. But thx I didn't know you could use a specific technique to help her produce a different tonal quality in that range.

 

I still doubt he's a spinto tho. I don't think his voice is that full up there. His column of sound also tells me otherwise. He isn't loud enough to possess a medium volume of a spinto.

 

 I think akisame's term can settle the debate lol.

 

Haha it is thanks to the 2 key pieces in Carmen that spurred the debate among opera fans. Her chest voice in Habanera and Seguedilla was so stunning and unusual for a soprano that people have to reexamine the whole thing again lol.

[moriadler]

How people only care about range and overlook vocal tessitura is beyond me. Hitting the note means nothing when you cannot produce it healthily. Singing out of your tessitura on a regular basis can damage your voice quicker than Queen Bum dropping her note. Fuck SM and their treatment to Jonghyun's voice and now the EXO boys'. Why everything must involve those fucking stupid screechy high notes just for the shock value.

[akisame]

How people only care about range and overlook vocal tessitura is beyond me. Hitting the note means nothing when you cannot produce it healthily. Singing out of your tessitura on a regular basis can damage your voice quicker than Queen Bum dropping her note. Fuck SM and their treatment to Jonghyun's voice and now the EXO boys'. Why everything must involve those fucking stupid screechy high notes just for the shock value.

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN! People caring about range instead of tessitura is what makes most people think bigger range = better singing (which is so untrue). EXO wouldn't be mediocre if SM focused on training their tessituras instead of forcing them to belt notes in the 5th octave (why the fuck are they going that high). Seriously, it's the most stupid thing ever.

[Chungie]

I didn't think it would....

 

Aside from SM's shenanigans, even if they had singing experience themselves, it would be mostly in a school/church choir or something, and I don't think they do proper voice placements usually, just put you in whatever section that has notes you can fit.  Vocal tessitura was not mentioned in any of the school choirs I've ever sung in, either.

 

(... but aki is a girl? XD)

 

If he were both the best dancer and the best/second-best singer, and I think he's probably second visual or something, what does he need the rest of them for???  (Rapping is optional in SM anyway. >.>)  I guess Taemin fans might even try to downplay it to keep peace within the fandom.  I wouldn't know, though. XD;;

If they are having intonation issue because of support then they won't be resonant though.

 

SME = Sado-Masochism Entertainment guys. They enjoy those painfully hit high notes.

[lepidoptery]

How people only care about range and overlook vocal tessitura is beyond me. Hitting the note means nothing when you cannot produce it healthily. Singing out of your tessitura on a regular basis can damage your voice quicker than Queen Bum dropping her note. Fuck SM and their treatment to Jonghyun's voice and now the EXO boys'. Why everything must involve those fucking stupid screechy high notes just for the shock value.

If they are having intonation issue because of support then they won't be resonant though.

 

SME = Sado-Masochism Entertainment guys. They enjoy those painfully hit high notes.

I think you meant to direct this part to moriadler.

 

(Yeah, but it doesn't really have to do with having a bad ear... that's just icing on your shit-cake.  Well, if you're at least consistently under the note or something, could be that you can't hear yourself properly and no one's told you what you've been doing wrong....)

[Chungie]

I think you meant to direct this part to moriadler.

 

(Yeah, but it doesn't really have to do with having a bad ear... that's just icing on your shit-cake.  Well, if you're at least consistently under the note or something, could be that you can't hear yourself properly and no one's told you what you've been doing wrong....)

No it was at everyone here talking about SME and their tendency to make people hit high notes.

 

Well, that;s why a good vocal teacher is needed.

[akisame]

To be honest, I think it's embarrassing that someone like Demi Lovato can resonate an A5, but it's actually completely offkey. The girl has such a poor ear.

[Rouga]

 

 

Is she really belting an Eb6? Like, OMG. (sounds very heady tbh)

[Guitargeekette]

^

 

ooo Ms Lynn~~~ I love her.

 

 

 

 

thoughts guys?

 

Is Kim Boa straining?

[Candy☆]

Can I ask for opinions on this ;

 

http://songjoohee.tumblr.com/post/52699366898/originally-by-navi

 

are her high notes good, etc.?

and for the people who know Alice, is she getting better? or not?

 

I mean, I like it.

but her voice is shaky sometimes,

I still think she improved compared to before.

[Josias]

Yesung sounds like a Dark Lyric Tenor to me.

[Guitargeekette]

Yesung sounds like a Dark Lyric Tenor to me.

 

awww he hasn't scraped baritone in the least?

[Onehallyu#1NiceOppaKW]

How people only care about range and overlook vocal tessitura is beyond me. Hitting the note means nothing when you cannot produce it healthily. Singing out of your tessitura on a regular basis can damage your voice quicker than Queen Bum dropping her note. Fuck SM and their treatment to Jonghyun's voice and now the EXO boys'. Why everything must involve those fucking stupid screechy high notes just for the shock value.

 

If they are having intonation issue because of support then they won't be resonant though.

 

SME = Sado-Masochism Entertainment guys. They enjoy those painfully hit high notes.

 

No it was at everyone here talking about SME and their tendency to make people hit high notes.

 

Well, that;s why a good vocal teacher is needed.

This is mostly the composer/producer issue.  I dunno really take a notice on male idols. I attend SMTOWN, their song written in very high key often. But then it is easier to drive people crazy in concert with high notes.

[moriadler]

Can I ask for opinions on this ;

 

http://songjoohee.tumblr.com/post/52699366898/originally-by-navi

 

are her high notes good, etc.?

and for the people who know Alice, is she getting better? or not?

 

I mean, I like it.

but her voice is shaky sometimes,

I still think she improved compared to before.

 

No offense but she's quite bad. I don't know how she was before. Very poor breath support to begin with, which means no resonance at all, among other problems.

 

^

 

ooo Ms Lynn~~~ I love her.

 

 

 

 

thoughts guys?

 

Is Kim Boa straining?

 

Yes she is. :/

 

 

Yesung sounds like a Dark Lyric Tenor to me.

 

awww he hasn't scraped baritone in the least?

 

I'm also inclined to him being a tenor but he's not a lyric for sure.

 

HIs voice is very much untrained compared to Kyu and Wook so it's impossible at this point to classify it properly. His lower register is only a tad bit better than Kyu who's a lyric tenor. The closest term I can think of now is the type of baritone called the Baryton-Martin in French repertoires who has a weaker lower range than the normal baritone, a light, sweet sounding timbre which is quite similar to a tenor and can be switched into a tenor through training. Like Gerard Souzay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osou89SQKZc But still it's funny and inappropriate to use a french classical term for an untrained kpop singer.

 

It's weird that baritone is supposed to be the most common male voice but in kpop we can barely find any true baritone.

[moriadler]

To be honest, I think it's embarrassing that someone like Demi Lovato can resonate an A5, but it's actually completely offkey. The girl has such a poor ear.

 

Maybe she did it on purpose? Offkey notes are quite often used in jazz, rock and heavy metal riffs for the style. Queen's Mustafa is an example. A lot of seasoned musicians also use them in their singing in a tasteful way without throwing away the tonality of the piece. Bob Dylan and Neil Young come up in my head. They even admit they sing offkey just to make a difference for their performance.

 

I've never followed her though so I don't know.

[Chungie]

Yesung is not a Spinto, for sure. He might be a dark colored lyric tenor. Or a Baritenor.

 

 

Is she really belting an Eb6? Like, OMG. (sounds very heady tbh)

Yes she is.

 

 

 

Maybe she did it on purpose? Offkey notes are quite often used in jazz, rock and heavy metal riffs for the style. Queen's Mustafa is an example. A lot of seasoned musicians also use them in their singing in a tasteful way without throwing away the tonality of the piece. Bob Dylan and Neil Young come up in my head. They even admit they sing offkey just to make a difference for their performance.

 

I've never followed her though so I don't know.

She doesn't sing any of those genres.

[Messica]

When looking at vocal analyses and comparisons between SNSD's main vocalists. Jessica is always ranked 2nd but the analyses are very similar to tiffany's, seohyun's and or Sunny's. Ive heard very good recent clips if Tiffany showing improvement while Jessica is slowly fading under SMs fault, giving a slight illusion that shes losing 2nd place. So what makes Jessica 2nd place?

What are her best vocal performances?

Which clips show her best upper register performances.

Which videos show good/her best D5/Eb5-F5.

How would you rate Jessica's G5 in her english song Say Yes?

[Candy☆]

No offense but she's quite bad. I don't know how she was before. Very poor breath support to begin with, which means no resonance at all, among other problems.

 

I'm not offended ;D I know Alice is not so good and really needs improvements. I wish some of these idols could have better vocal coach tbh :/

 

 

When looking at vocal analyses and comparisons between SNSD's main vocalists. Jessica is always ranked 2nd but the analyses are very similar to tiffany's, seohyun's and or Sunny's. Ive heard very good recent clips if Tiffany showing improvement while Jessica is slowly fading under SMs fault, giving a slight illusion that shes losing 2nd place. So what makes Jessica 2nd place?

What are her best vocal performances?

Which clips show her best upper register performances.

Which videos show good/her best D5/Eb5-F5.

How would you rate Jessica's G5 in her english song Say Yes?

 

I can't answer to all questions but I agree about Jessica and Tiffany. I always said Jessica is 2nd for sure. but some singers get worse with time and it looks like (maybe) this is the case for Jessica? not sure :/ but in their last concert, Jessica wasn't good (but maybe that was just for this concert, IDK). while Tiffany show some improvements (and I didn't like her singing much, at least not for the last 2 years) but Tiffany did well for one high note (forgot which song) and overall too, it was pretty good. I mean, if Tiffany keep improving and if Jessica really gets worse (but this can't be confirmed so soon) then the ranking in SNSD might change, I guess. but not for now, it's still a little soon to tell.

[AhMin]

When looking at vocal analyses and comparisons between SNSD's main vocalists. Jessica is always ranked 2nd but the analyses are very similar to tiffany's, seohyun's and or Sunny's. Ive heard very good recent clips if Tiffany showing improvement while Jessica is slowly fading under SMs fault, giving a slight illusion that shes losing 2nd place. So what makes Jessica 2nd place?

What are her best vocal performances?

Which clips show her best upper register performances.

Which videos show good/her best D5/Eb5-F5.

How would you rate Jessica's G5 in her english song Say Yes?

 

I'm not offended ;D I know Alice is not so good and really needs improvements. I wish some of these idols could have better vocal coach tbh :/

 

 

 

I can't answer to all questions but I agree about Jessica and Tiffany. I always said Jessica is 2nd for sure. but some singers get worse with time and it looks like (maybe) this is the case for Jessica? not sure :/ but in their last concert, Jessica wasn't good (but maybe that was just for this concert, IDK). while Tiffany show some improvements (and I didn't like her singing much, at least not for the last 2 years) but Tiffany did well for one high note (forgot which song) and overall too, it was pretty good. I mean, if Tiffany keep improving and if Jessica really gets worse (but this can't be confirmed so soon) then the ranking in SNSD might change, I guess. but not for now, it's still a little soon to tell.

You think Tiffany has shown improvement and Jessica hasn't? Search a video where SNSD sing each other lines, I'm not sure...wait

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdLfnEeyUcc

@1:08

Tiffany is singing Jessica's part in The Boys, I don't even need to get into details of what Jessica has that Tiffany hasn't, but just listen to how Tiffany struggles with Jessica's line and you will hear the clear difference in ability

 

Tiffany has shown nearly no improvement, Jessica has stayed consistent actually, Seohyun has improved somewhat, Taeyeon also...