Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[BAZISSINO]

Idk really terms without physiological explanation don't make sense to me. I do agree Sohyang's head voice on the highest notes isn't really stellar, and Im sure even the blog has changed its opinion on her "consistent supported" head voice range to some degree. Would you at least agree she isn't really straining D6s? Does this mean you're a fan of the notes below that I do agree she doesn't have like... Any depth in her head voice that I've heard. She really likes that whole "small laser pointer head voice" that she was taught to sing in

 

Sent from my LG-D852 using OneHallyu mobile app

What do u mean by she doesn't have any depth in her head voice  , DOn't expect classical head voice coordination 

[BAZISSINO]

Except for the fact that SoHyang's got a lot of tension starting at C#6 in HV, and she's not so consistent in her mix. She has several off-pitch Bb5/B5s (of course, some people want to say this is intentional--it's not), many tense notes in her upper mix, weird placement at times, etc. (All the flaws people put down to "being eternally sick" or "fatigued from a few concerts." But, she's had these issues since at least the mid-2000s. Now, I know I came under attack for my criticism of SH a few years back, especially when I said others were better. I don't stand by my original analyses of many people, but I stand by what I said about SH for the most part. She just isn't as good as people make her out to be. That's not to say she isn't good, though. 

Yes, she doesn't lose support a lot in her mid, and she rarely loses complete support unless it's in her lower register, but she's doesn't "achieve the ring 99.9999% of the time" or whatever like her analysis states. She doesn't have enough chest development to sing songs normally. Her lower mid is weak, and she couldn't even phrase the C4s in the "Star Spangled Banner." She lacks a really necessary part of her voice. Yes, she might hit some notes that are seen as "decently-low" for a soprano (they're not, though), but she can't use them in phrases so well. She doesn't control that area of her voice well. Her dynamics aren't so great, either. 

SoHyang's voice has given out multiple times after switching from her upper back down to her mid--again, not complete drops of support but enough to be noticeable and signal discomfort. 

I don't mean that she's not one of the best active vocalists today. I just mean, she's not as good as people make her out to be. She's not as good as her analysis states. She doesn't meet the required guidelines for an excellent-level vocalist by the standards established here, and no matter how you try to bend the rules for her, it doesn't change that fact. That's why I hope people don't get upset with me like before because I'm just calling it as I see it. If those blog guidelines don't have to be followed, why even include them on the site?

she couldn't phrase C4s ?!! C4s BY SOHYANG ARE YOU SERIOUS !!! i never heard drop of support in the A3 - Bb5 like you say  even when she's tired she's heady true but she still support  You make her  sound like some inconsistent vocalist when she isn't lol, she follows the guidelines of the BLOG you just disagree, again YOu think Barbra support below F#3 and lee sunhee below A3 sO YOU completely don't hear what i hear that for sure 

[BAZISSINO]

That's simply not true. SoHyang lacks serious development until you get to her inconsistent upper mix. That's why she can't sing songs like every other "excellent-level" singer and turns everything into an upper-mix belting fest. When she doesn't, she loses support, and it sounds uncomfortable. 

 

I didn't skip anything. If you don't meet all the criteria, you don't meet them.

 

Her HV lacks development--even by pop standards--past C6. 

 

Her lower register doesn't meet the standards required by the blog. If you don't like those standards, talk to Ahmin, not me. 

 

SoHyang has decent dynamics at best.

 

The extent of her range means nothing to me. Huang Qishan has resonated C6s and consistently up to Bb5 and supported down to E3, but everything in between could be better, so I don't consider her "excellent-level," either. The criteria for an "excellent-level" vocalist is more stringent than that. 

Her HV lacks development even for pop standards really? LOL who said that and who support up C6 in pop like you say except Whitney Beyonce and maybe Lisa  

Her low range is average, you're talking about the criteria of the blog like you're one of the admins 

Decent dynamic !!! who has excellent dynamic in your logic I'm curious 

POST what you said about Qishan with a video and you gonna see if people here agree with you :3

[BAZISSINO]

Tbh this is something I have a problem with. What ARE resonators? Are you guys claiming that there are structures in the body that like... activate or something that produce "resonance"? I am legitimately confused about this and I hope that attitude isn't what's coming across. It would be absolutely lovely to have a diagram of a human's anatomy and have these "resonators" labelled for me so that I know that they are existing, physical structures so that it makes scientific sense to me so that I can believe it, agree with it, and use it in discussion. The way I know it and understand it, resonance is ring, and ring and clarity come from chest voice being coordinated into the voice, which is more easily allowable with depth. 

 

Depth isn't necessarily vocal folds development. You can sing with depth and not have the proper coordination / "vocal fold development" for it and it'd just be artificially dark

 

We aren't just claiming yeah you explained the resonance theoretically but there's a mechanism behind that, even in anatomy we learned about that wherever there's a chamber/cavity with space you can place your voice in it and  amplify the sound you make  that include the maxillary sinus , frontal sinus and the skull as a whole for pure head voice  .... some say the pharynx is the only resonator and the oral cavity is just an amplifier 

[BAZISSINO]

But how do you "place your voice in it"? What does that phrase mean? Are you saying that there's a structure in the body that allows for you to direct air into these spaces?

no it happens naturally but it can be manipulated don't you feel that while mixing or while going into your head voice don't you feel like you orient you voice ?! that what placement is you can experiment and change your placement from very low heavy chest placed to brighter head voice when you can feel it the vibration in the top of your head 

[BAZISSINO]

But how do you "place your voice in it"? What does that phrase mean? Are you saying that there's a structure in the body that allows for you to direct air into these spaces?

i mean there's a mechanism like when you go nasal on purpose   

[BAZISSINO]

yeah maybe we should just divide everything into "stable" or "unstable" from now on, much easier lol

 

Singing in softer dynamics is an advanced skill and is one of the most difficult things to do in singing, especially in the upper part of the voice. It requires the ability to control the precise amount of chest voice/lower register activity in the coordination of the registers while keeping the breathing coordinated as well. Singing louder is done by increasing the chest voice/lower register participation in the coordination, and the softer you go, the less the chest voice participation is.

 

this is an example of an operatic tenor singing a diminuendo on a 15-second sustained C5 @ 2:33 - 2:50

 

 

Since it is a C5 from a proper opera singer and it is way past the passaggio, the bulk of the work is done by the upper register even though the chest voice/lower register is strongly engaged. So what's going here is that he starts off singing the phrase in a loud dynamic with both chest voice/lower register and upper register at a higher level of participation/activity, and then decreases the chest voice activity less and less in the C5, so the amount of upper register activity stays the same but the lower register/chest is decreasing, resulting in the C5 becoming softer and softer as he sustains it.

 

basically, dynamics are made up of varying amounts of chest/lower register and upper register activity in the coordination.

Just DAMN  that dynamic i was already impressed by the F4 at 0:46 i never been a classical fan but that was impressive 

[BAZISSINO]

 

 

Welp... 

 

Anybody want to comment anything on this?

i mean You can read the comments ROsé is a legend SO UNIQ HER VOICE   

[BAZISSINO]

isn't jessica sounding so nasal in this lol

 

where exactly do you hear it ?

[BAZISSINO]

0.o you still recognize me eh? Thought you wouldn't haha Though how many Younha stans are there rly lol

 

Well I stopped learning about vocals quite a while back, because I don't sing often and my interest was kinda tied to Younha, who has almost no material these days months years. But I still hang in my fav artist threads. And erm university has ended for me, time to work T.T

 

How did you find the overall cover though? Does she have a tendency to be tense/straining?  She's a singer I'm looking out for nowadays =3 tyty

didn't C9 announced that she will release an album soon after that OST 

Edited August 12, 2017 by BAZISSINO

[BAZISSINO]

Lmao she didn't even go below middle C in that, there's nothing in that cover that would make me think she's a mezzo, she's way lighter than a mezzo would be.

 

Btw I'm a soprano and I can go below the C after middle C (i.e C3) so tbh for a soprano being 'comfortable' at middle C is nothing strange and, in fact, you should be comfortable at middle C.

she doesn't sound mezzo to me too she has a very undeveloped technique but i would lean more to soprano 

[BAZISSINO]

Falsettos don't necessarily always have to be super airy, Theres varying degrees of control of airiness. Vocalists with headier mixes would be Jo Kwon, Eunji(I think she's more heady now than before) and Seohyun. Send a recording! I'm curious about your voice.

jo kwon isn't heady where did you heard that he was heady?

[BAZISSINO]

I really liked that bit at 1:25 or so, Eunji seems like the first person who actually executed it somewhat well.

 

1:23 the F5 and G5 she didn't execute it  well LOL she just know how to mix better than Ariana and jessie j 

[BAZISSINO]

Hi guys. Hope yall doing well

What do you think about these performance? Taeil and doyoung covered Ryoewook's The little prince. And Taeil covered Khyuhyun's song

 

How their singing techniques compare to Ryeowook and Kyuhyun?

I know R&K are on different level, but is it really far from them? Just curious.

taeil is average but i would say more A to AA cause he showed support on G4s and G#4 e it just his approch is tight and not open 

i'm not sure how consistent he is in his lower range but it more thanaverage,, doyoung has a very airy low range but he supports F#4 both have a very similar mixing approach 

they're very far from R&K by far i would say cause NCT haven't showcased resonance or supported head voice

[BAZISSINO]

also id just like to share this moment of whitney's lol

 

 

@5:15 a sustained resonant F#5? did she achieve "the ring" ont hat F#5???

 

 

you mean 5:20 it was supported but it had some obv tension so not resonant 

[BAZISSINO]

Wendy doesn't get heady at all in her supported range... Her mix is actually pretty balanced (it's better than Taeyeon's mix in terms of placement), the problem is just that she lacks the openness. I think Wendy does get heady outside of her supported range but she does not "really" get heady, it's more like "oh she got a bit headier compared to...". If Wendy was more consistent with her resonance and her openness (which is the only thing she really lacks rn), she certainly would be better than Taeyeon since their consistency with resonance would be equal but Wendy's head voice is much more developped than Taeyeon's head voice (A5/Bb5 for Wendy, F5/F#5 for Taeyeon) and Wendy's lower range is really supported down (F#3/G3) compared to Taeyeon's (G3/G#3).

 

Honestly, I don't think current Wendy and current Taeyeon should be judged for their supported range but for their resonance, and Wendy lacks a lot of it.

taeyeon improved her mixing significantly but wendy alwayd had a balanced mix even above D5 listen to her F5 in oh boy 

[BAZISSINO]

I'm always so confused about Whitney. Her tone is just so heavy I can barely differentiate if it's resonant or not in her upper belts (Eb5 and above). I think I hear pushing in the F#5.

i wouldn't say her tone is particularly heavy that her natural vocal type, it also the fact that she insert more chest resonance in her mixing than most sopranos  

[BAZISSINO]

Didi is little brother in Chinese and mei mei is little sister in Chinese. How old are you?? I'm so bad at ages.

This is what I thought all your ages were during my first week here:

CY:40+

Caprinhas:30-40+

Jstar:24

ZRH23:25

Bassizino:28

Parkhyo lee:23

Step on me Lamisa:28

Ahmin:27

K:21

Messica:28

WinWin:22

 

I'm in high school btw, y'all seemed old to me at first(some still are) especially CY and Caprinhas idk why.

sassy NOW i'm 28 please no LOL

 

[BAZISSINO]

we can pretty much say this thread is dead LOL 

[BAZISSINO]

Not K-pop but can i just say, the amount of A5 belts and SUSTAINED here is freaking me out here lol. Yes it's strain as hell lmao but her vocal chords are so "strong" lol. And i applaud her because she actually has good projection up there and her mixing is not bad either. 

 

A5 -> 10:55 to 11:26

 

 

i wouldn't call that a not bad mixing . i mean her mix never was balanced in first place even around B4 - C#5 it heavy asf and chesty i wouldn't call a heavy pushed chesty mix a not bad mixing 

this is what i consider a not bad mixing 

A5 ==> 2:54

F#5 ==> 3:58 

A5 ==> 5:33 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FAM1T1Xc1U

G5 ==> 3:06

Edited September 30, 2017 by BAZISSINO

[BAZISSINO]

Click here to view the Tweet

 

 

How was suho here?

 

also, I found a vocal analysis for him here. It says he's an average vocalist. Is this accurate?

 

https://twitter.com/dearsuchen/status/914176769158270976

i think you linked the wrong tweet are u talking about that guy who said suho support B2 - G4 lol ?!

[BAZISSINO]

How come we don't talk much about Elaine Paige? I know people mostly care about Asian vocalists here, but with the exception of Barbra Streisand, she seems better than any vocalist routinely discussed here. I just recently started listening to her, but she wows me.

 

 

 

 

 

Beautiful control.

 better than any vocalist routinely :3 .... LOL haven't you realized the thread is dead?

[BAZISSINO]

really cool but "opera vocals" tho lmao, there are no "opera vocals" going on in the video

 

but yeah those C6s tho! cool

 

yeah he's a baribro, I can't go into much detail or whatever I don't have time to listen through but he's not so good. He just gets more and more squeezed and constricted as he goes higher and sometimes uses a sound typically used in rock music called "grit" in an unhealthy manner for the highest notes.

 

soup!

 

nah he's a baritone. some bad habits here and there on certain vowels but he's got skillz anyway, I heard him do some good G4s in his recent video on his youtube channel

 

i was listening to this high baritone from Australia, he's interesting because many high baritones in pop sing in a thinner light mix sound but he uses some more of a "chest mix" in comparison--like the way that Ailee and a lot of tenors do for example. It seems like there are more pop tenors/sopranos that use more of a "chest mix", but not many high baritones for some reason. Even a lot of medium-weight baritones don't either but sometimes they do.

 

 

G4 @ 3:17

 

 

cool mashup of Whitney covers, G4 @ 5:14 - 5:21

 

 

F#4 @ 5:38

 

 

and no, he is not a "light lyric tenor" that is being "chesty" if anyone was thinking that lol.

i upvote that just for the bless of  this  discovery, how is his upper range/head voice ?

[BAZISSINO]

Is "soup" what the young kids are saying instead of "tea?" 

i thought it what's Up LOL

[BAZISSINO]

Edited October 24, 2017 by BAZISSINO