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Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)


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In the famous words of Christina Offkeyliera:

 

 

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...rrerrr4.r.reeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy....t.y.y.y.yy.....

 

 

 

ANYWAY is Jessica Ho a FLS or a mezzo?

 

Sounds like an LLS to me. LOL'ing at how staged this video is and the amount of reverb used to make her sound good. 

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LOL really? Such a coincidence because thry have thr same username and both know about vocals LOL we cant trust the world anymore

That's pianogirl you're talking about.

 

Ahmin, isn't superpianogirl the one you used to have fights with on YouTube? Doesn't she over-hype the people she stans?

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She used to fight with Chung, Peter and I think Josias mostly... Not me, I fought with her maybe once or twice..? But it was a long while ago, the only fight I remember was one Chung was involved in and the other one was about Victoria justice F#5s lol

She knows about you like you know about her lol

Yeah I was thinking it was the other girl he meant and I mean she was just bitchy and not really biased, just made mistakes and was bitchy but I mean we all have so its okay. She is much nicer now but still funny bitchy lol I really like her tbqh

No, she was really biased. That's why Chung fought with her - she was super stubborn too.

 

But, if she's different - like you say she is - we can give her a trial run.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Also a very forward placement, lighter mix and coordinated/connected registers.

 

Agility is the ability to sing any notes in your range, in any given speed, on any given dynamic and on any given vocal articulation with a wide range of vocal colors on ONE breath and with ease and effortlessness, so it's not just about runs. Things like registers transition is included in agility/flexibility too.

Younha has the ability to change registers with relative ease, but she lacks in the other departments.

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Agree about kyuhyun tho.

Okay thanks. I hope kyungsoo can be a good vocalist in the future hhi

Good night :)

 

How bout among singers? In the world

Lara Fabian, Lea Salonga, Sohyang, Anika Rose Noni (?), Barbra Streisand (well, she's God-level), Beyoncé. All I can remember off of the top of my head.

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Guys, you know that there were a ton more amazing/excellent vocalists among opera singers in the past, right? Lots of them were better than The Three tenors. Quite a few excellent ones are still alive, though not all are active as singers.

I only named the ones that are most recognisable.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ellie goulding is average right?

 

 

I honestly thought ellie goulding was average at best like Sunny's level at best, but did she just resonate a C#5 @3:44 or is it just so much reverb?

 

but she has so many nice Bb4s here Like at 3:32 (im not sure about the one at 3:11, it sounds ok, but I think its throaty theres just the reverb)

She's awful...

 

See I can accept stylistic choices when given proof that the vocalist is able to sound completely different and show proper support and resonance, with clear power and openness. I am thinking that I should agree to disagree with you, if you don't mind. I just do not hear what you hear. To me, his vibrato is tense, slightly too fast and even if you just watch him, he's full of jaw tension and his vibrato sounds constricted and closed. Actually I'm quite pleased with the links, though I had already seen the first one, I noticed the Bb4 now and I can say that Bb4 and below is good for him, before I thought it was just A4. There's more openness and resonance, considering the lightness of his voice. Even then, there's clear jaw tension and his vibrato is closing his throat a bit. Also above Bb4, he sounds tight and squeezed. I can't call that C#5 a resonant C#5, the C5 already sounded a bit too constricted. I can hear a throatiness for style coming in, but I also hear a consistent squeezed tense overly fast vibrato and above Bb4, tightness and tension come in when he sustains higher notes, not when he hits them quickly, there I hear support. I mean that's what I hear, I asked some other people to make sure I'm not hearing things and they hear similar things so I mean I can agree to disagree. >_<

This is where the problem lies. When assessing a vocalist, one should not take their physical mannerisms into account because it will most obviously cloud the results. If you close your eyes and listen to The One without watching him, there's no tension in his voice - therefore jaw tension is absolutely impossible. Furthermore, jaw tension is one of the most common ways of hindering one's ability to resonate and is, more often than not, coupled with a shouty sound (see: Ariana Grande). I don't need to look at Ariana Grande to be able to tell that she's got problems with jaw tension. Also, jaw tension produces glottal sounds - which The One does not have - and can be heard in Jonghyun too.

 

Now, back to The One, he doesn't have jaw tension - that's what his face looks like. The guy has a severe underbite, that has yet to be corrected, and is obvious when he closes his mouth: his bottom teeth overlap his front teeth. Therefore, I think your judgement has been clouded by looking at his face, rather than listening to the sound he is producing.

 

The C#5 was resonant - it produced a ringing sound and was reverberated back. Maybe the lightness of the note confused you?

 

"There's more openness and resonance, considering the lightness of his voice. Even then, there's clear jaw tension and his vibrato is closing his throat a bit." - this literally makes no sense. So he was resonant and open, yet he had jaw tension and was singing in his throat? Unless The One possesses two voices, that are simultaneously singing at the same time, I do not understand how it is physically possible for him to resonate and strain at the same time.

 

Maybe you're having troubles with his voice: he is a full lyric tenor. If you compare him to others with the same voice type, that are excellent, they all have a heaviness in their resonance that you would not expect from an ordinary tenor. Heck, the same heaviness is present in full lyric sopranos like Lara Fabian.

 

To make sure I wasn't mishearing things, I also consulted Chung (who cannot come on OH right now, but shall soon) and he agreed with me and said that The One does not produce a close and constricted sound.

Edited by akisame
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Sigh.. Okay I meant, there's more openness and resonance, below Bb4. You can still have resonance and have a little bit of tension and/or have a vibrato close up your throat a bit. All I said is there's more openness and resonance with a little bit of tension. A little bit of tension does not equate to straining, necessarily. Like Hyorin's E5's from "When I First Saw You", the sound was well placed and resonant, but it was also slightly more closed than desired and it was consistent through the note, so yes you can have a bit of tension and a bit of a closed throat, but MORE resonance and openness when compared to your higher notes, which was what I was saying, his Bb4 and below is more open and resonant than his notes above Bb4. Does that make sense to you now?
 
Okay. Then I'll listen to him with my eyes closed and see what I hear. Okay I listened to the jump from Ab4 ~ Bb4 ~ C5 ~ Db5 in the first video. I do hear resonance from Ab4 and Bb4, nice and relaxed, then he gets slightly closed/heady as he sings C5 and then the sustained Db5 has a quick vibrato with a bit of unsteadiness and unevenness. The vibrato was slightly too quick and it wasn't even. 4:13 on the second video, given he was singing ì´ Ee vowel and made it almost sound like a Eu 으 vowel, for an Ee sound where the sound should be wider, the constricted the sound quite a bit with the wrong jaw/lip position, by creating a more closed sound than desirable. Stylistic? Maybe. I listened with my eyes closed, again. I listened and I heard that, what I'm explaining. Also, are you sure he's a full lyric? Because I was thinking Park Hyo Shin and Hwanhee would be examples of Full Lyric tenors and according to what Drew was saying, The One showed skills that are characteristics of a Full-Lyric, but in fact he has a much lighter and brighter voice and is a light lyric, who has the skill of one, according to him. So to me, Drew thinks The One is a Light-Lyric and that's what I was thinking this whole time too, this is the first time anyone calls him a full lyric, to me.
 
Since you're quoting Chung, I've also asked my share of people about the issue to ask make sure I wasn't hearing things. AspiringStar said that the way that The One forces his vibrato makes it sound like his voice is ripping apart and that the ascent up to the C#5 on the It Will Pass video was less supported than the actual C#5 and finally that his middle is super light and airy. Primmohome thinks he is a nice interpreter but his upper range is not very good. He does better in the lower tenor range. He can hit some alright C5's with support, but they're only the quick ones. He gets very tense on held out, sustained notes. He also said "I like his singing, then it gets a bit squeezed and unstable as he goes up the scale, like he is not supporting properly, so he puts too much tension on his throat." Lastly, Haruko also hear his voice getting more shrill and tense above Bb4. So I mean, these are all people who are not you, Chung or Drew, but also hear what I hear. (I actually didn't ask them all, I asked Haruko, she asked the other two to make sure.) So, given that, I still am fine with agreeing to disagree, because I just can't say I hear what you hear and am in agreement with what you're saying. 

 

Idk I'm not very good with voice typing.

 

I also have no idea who these people are and whether or not they are reliable because there is nothing shrill in his voice. His C5s are not "all right", they are resonant.

 

You're contradicting yourself so much of the time. One cannot be resonant if half of the voice is in the throat. That's not how the spectrum of resonance works. 

 

Being heady does not make one closed.

Edited by akisame
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These people?

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClCxY3ELQ4S8e8FzjHPcE5w

https://www.youtube.com/user/primohomme

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrn8hlYBPkuzJbUd8bmvhJQ

 

So uhm yes, they're reliable. Yes, you're right. I never said being heady made one closed, I was just saying he got heady AND he got closed. Also no, my point is, yes. The spectrum of resonance DOES work like that, that's why there are things such as open throat, supported, resonant and the ring. The more opened and well placed your sound is, the more resonant it is. You don't necessarily have to strain to be slightly closed in the throat, which you also don't need to lose the resonance either. You can be resonant but not AS resonant as you could ultimately be, aka optimally resonant as you would say, due to less space in the back of the throat. Do you disagree with that? I never said half of his voice was in throat, I emphasized the word "slightly" and a "bit" quite a lot. 

 

Btw, were you the one who removed that "stop please" user? If so, thank you.

 

Oh so you do think he's a full lyric? That's fine. I thought he was a light lyric and I don't know for sure to be quite honest, so I won't disagree nor agree with that. I'm not sure about competent, but someone good, like Kyuhyun or Sandeul, up until Bb4, yes. That is actually a requirement for a "good" tenor, Bb4. Sandeul and Kyuhyun do those quite well too, although I'd say The One has probably more control than Sandeul with a less than desirable lower range.

I thought you were implying that his voice was half in his throat, and half not, so I got confused. 

 

I agree that he was not optimally resonant on that C#5, but he was resonant and there was a clear roundness in his voice. He does have slight tension, in his upper register, but he's a man, and he's never going to be able to resonate C#5s like a woman would be able to. 

 

However, there is no jaw vibrato whatsoever and in his supported range he is absolutely better than good. His resonance his clear, cut, sharp and optimum! He is a lot better Kyuhyun. 

 

Oh well, I guess we can't keep on going around in circles.

 

No, I didn't remove his posts because I'm not a mod and I don't have those kind of powers.

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hmm I'm in agreement with Ahmin, here are some of my thoughts. 

 

@akisame

I disagree with not taking in physical habits. A lot of singers do things that are physically incorrect; keeping the jaw locked in like a middle position or spreading their mouth laterally, tongue incorrect position, shoulders/upper chest rising during inhalation, etc. Even very good singers may screw up a little and have some small but bad physical habits.

 

If a teacher never looked at a student at all, and the student had a locked jaw and horizontal mouth, then he would be closed throat and nasally because the soft palate isn't dropped and will not have open throat in this physical state. The teacher can't simply tell him "don't be nasally and open your throat", because the student wouldn't know wtf is causing it (which is why a lot of internet advice can only be so useful, because we can't even see what else the person is doing).

 

Any high level singer has similar physical behavior relating to the jaw, mouth, tongue; you look at great opera singers and they all look the same (jaw dropped on high notes, not spread laterally, tongue in correct position), the only thing different is where they have to do these certain things depending on their voice type.

 

so about The One, i can't agree with the C#5 being great, it's one of those notes that are very close to being good but there is some tension present which is why it still retained a degree of forced resonance. I mean even if you listen to the way he ascended into it, it was Bb4 to B4 to C#5 I think. The Bb4 is relatively okay, but the B4 was already bad, then the tension remained going up to the C#5 because he already screwed the B. His vibrato wasn't even at all, I can hear the oscillation skipping a little somewhere.

 

David Phelps is like the only contemporary guy I can think of with great C#5s.

 

second video, g#4 is okay, Bb4 not bad but it's questionable, slight constriction and I mean very slight. Arguable though because it is very hard to notice, I might be off, so let's just say he did it okay. But then he descends back down and the G#4 is definitely no good, the note and vibrato wavered.

@4:15, vibrato is very forced there, also tight (along with a lot of other notes). It's incorrect singing on EE vowel at the second passagio

 

about the timestamps in the third video, there are things he does there are not preferable in terms of good technique. The way he sings his EE vowels, his jaw is too shut which affects the shape of the vocal tract. Now I haven't heard him attempt it on his highest notes yet, he's only done it up to Bb4. But if he tried it on C5 he wouldn't get the note out without completely pushed resonance and overworking the chest voice.

 

technically he's already doing it on the notes around his second passagio and above, the "fullness" or "heavier" sound you hear when he sings closed vowels like EE is because his jaw is not dropped at and above the second passagio which causes the head voice muscles to not properly come into play. Because of the incorrect throat shape from the tight jaw and improper muscular balance; less resonance is a result.

 

imo his best note is the G4 @ 8:00 in the third video

 

any highly trained singer would be taught to EE vowel on dropped jaw, it would be true open throat and the resonance is objectively better. What he's doing is not "optimal resonance" and it would never be considered proper resonance by a classical teacher, let alone him attempting it on his highest notes around C5. 

 

here's some visual examples of proper EE singing

Sohyang E5 on the word "free", jaw dropped @ 2:25

 

 

operatic dramatic baritone, jaw dropped pure EE vowel @ 3:42 on G4 (tough high note for a low baritone)

 

 

PHS, B4 @ 2:50 aurally it sounds correct, it's relatively dropped here (hard to see). Not only is it a higher note on a closed vowel but it has better resonance than The One's EE vowel notes. though some hardcore classical teacher might argue there is slight tension since his shoulders went up during inhalation which introduces tension before you even start singing

 

 

so you have a contemporary female and an opera dude, but their jaw is the same on their respective high EE notes. You can reasonably argue The One is stylistic, which I would agree, but to me a lot of the fullness/weight heard isn't optimal resonance but either pushed resonance or a constricted throat. 

 

HOLY FUCKING ESSAY

That isn't what I meant: the guy has an underbite, it's very clear that he cannot help the way his jaw is positioned. Also, a lot of people scrunch up their faces when they sing and that doesn't affect their singing at all.

 

All of those things you mentioned (about lock jaw) should be able to be heard by a competent singing teacher as they produce obvious changes in the voice. You don't need to look at your student to be able to see what they're doing wrong. There are obvious signs of certain bad habits: clenched jaw will usually produce a glottal attack and slurred diction, for example. Looking at someone, however, who happens to make a pained expression on their face can lead one to believe that one is straining. Eg, Junsu's veins pop out from his neck even when he's resonating - they do not signify a thing. 

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why? ._.

Maybe it has something to do with being MIA for a while, but I feel like the VT is no longer a collective unit. There are so many users, on here, who come to fangirl/boy over you. I feel like it undermines what the rest of us have to say. There's no point in me being here if my comments are obviously unwanted. The reception is here is different. I don't feel welcome. I feel like the knowledge I have collected over the years is being ridiculed by some users. I don't like it here, anymore.

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He's dropping his jaw correctly for everything else though, so you're saying his jaw doesn't drop sometimes but sometimes it does? I don't have experience with an underbite or TMJ so I don't know.

 

But actually it's irrelevant, because even if we accept that he can't drop his jaw properly a lot of the time, it wouldn't change the fact that a dropped jaw is absolutely necessary for optimal resonance above the second passagio. It would be like saying someone with only one leg is an extremely fast runner, even though it requires two working legs to be that fast.

Wth?

 

Can you please stop telling me things I already know. 

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....THE DUDE'S JAW BE LIKE  :ahmagah:  :ahmagah:  :ahmagah:  ALL THE TIME LOL, like he's about to cry during every ballad he sings, I don't even know how it's possible to make the excuse that he can't drop his jaw because of his underbite when he has clearly shown the ability to do so other times. Is that really the argument we're gonna go with here? He simply does not do it when it's necessary on the EE vowels, which is not surprising seeing as how a lot of singers don't know this without a teacher or something (a good one, anyway).

I'm not making any excuses. Frankly, I find you quite rude. 

 

I'm out.

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  • 11 months later...

Not that I'm shading with my intro, how are twice in these performances? I don't know you guys are experts on autotune and such. But this is their performances in YHY sketchbook

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK0qFtRUGFQ&feature=player_embedded

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV3_ZemFyiU

 

These are the comments I've seen in the videos.

 

1. Jihyo is a Mezzo Soprano

2. Mina and Tzuyu are the sub-vocalists (which is already true given the lines given to them)

3. They improved

4. Some are not convinced at the evidence used in number 3.

 

Why? They've had a mixed reaction regarding to their lives and mr removed videos. In some cases they sound like this. And this is what every anti-once considered their best day, when this came out. seriously I've seen some use this to prove that Twice can't sing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS9rUesZSTY

 

Which concerns me because I've seen some idols get bashed even more for their vocals when they attend YHYS. So I don;t know if you guys will comment about their improvement in their vocals but I'd like to be positive and that it's true. After all, we were given this to prove that they have some pipes that can run even better with practice. AKA the sexy jam of onces and the all-loving fuck you to everyone who said that no one in Twice can carry a single note

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeBbK5JbBR8

 

Sorry if it's long, thanks!

 

Firstly, none of these girls are mezzo-sopranos. Not one of them is even pushing the boundary between full lyric and light lyric. Every single one of them is a light lyric soprano.

 

 

Now, onto their skills as vocalists: they aren't good. One of them is capable of producing a relatively decent tone when she's in her comfort zone, but she still has issues with placing her voice in her nose and her resonance is practically next to none.

 

In the chorus of Oh~Ah, there's a lot of shouting going on and the sustained high note at the end was unsupported, throaty and nasal. 

 

Also, that last video of them was just really quite bad. The harmonies were off from the very beginning, the sound was throaty, unsupported, the centre of pitch was completely off and the girl taking the soprano position in the harmonies was almost unbearable to listen to. No support in her voice at all which the last 50 seconds pretty painful to hear. Also, take away the mike from any one of those girls and you'd be hard pressed when it came to be able to hear them since there isn't even a semblance of resonance in their voices.

 

These girls are definitely not skilled in the vocal department, but I guess that doesn't seem to matter since they seem to be a more dance-orientated group anyway.

Edited by akisame
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I hope we get to see Chanmi have some good vocal performances on Produce 101 cause she hasn't showed her vocals off in quite a while

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPj9bDQk7H8

She's very nasal and her jaw is far too tense - it makes her enunciation sound chewed.

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How'd Wendy do here? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ3ZNzdXdI4

It was very nice and clean (intonation wise). Good phrasing and placement, though the vibrato could be more solid in a few places and the ring more fuller - there were clear moments of tension. I think she does better when she just sings standing still, she doesn't sounds so hot when she's performing with Red Velvet - her stamina needs some work.

 

 

YASS YOU ARE BACK.

I know not for long tho.

 

Why is everyone suddenly coming back though, did AhMin call for the council of middle earth?

Tzuyu sista was lacking legato in that last video too.....

 

 

 

 

Tzuyu did say she plans to practice singing everyday to get better 

Somebody please help her tho like OMG

 

Isn't Tzuyu just a sub-vocalist (aka a non vocalist)?

 

I have a question,.. since googling isnt working :')

 

 

last week I had quite a sore throat and stuffs in which talking and swallowing and stuff hurt and because I actually had to talk alot my voice got really hoarse and my voice got alot lower or something,..

anyway, it doesnt hurt anymore since like 3 days or something and I can talk without feeling like im dying or sounding like im dying

but when I try sing, which im not going to do alot or at all actually for atleast another few days,..

is it possible or has it happened to others before that they actually kinda lost part of their range?

 

like, my falsetto is absolutely nonexistant right now, its just air I cant even produce it and everything in the 4th octave is,.. half air half sound and the higher I try to go the more airy it gets, of which I mean with every note I get 25% more airy :')

 

like is it something that has happened to anyone before?

I might also still be kinda sick tho, I have absolutely no idea how that feels since the last time I felt kinda ill was like,.. more than 8 years ago I think xd

 

thanks,.. if anyone read this, what feels like a wall of a text xd

If it doesn't get better go to a doctor to get your larynx checked.

 

Damn luna belted a G#4-G#5 in he4 solo in 3:32
https://youtu.be/pR9jJdOa_cY

That G#5 was really, really tense. Upper extension definitely needs improvement.

Edited by akisame
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