Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, mozelle said:

Probably Yuju's best live performance this year.

 

The song is not that challenging, but generally her approach here was... *chef's kiss*. It's like we got a glimpse of her prime days.

Nice and opened B4s at 0:58, 1:49, 2:38 (dare I say... resonant? There's a ringing quality to it). Also, this whole verse from 0:22 - 0:33 sounds quite full with an opened Bb4 at the end.

The funny thing is, she was singing her new song "Evening" before this, it was nice but didn't sound as full, then she suddenly pull this off...  it makes me think that her bright and nasal approach is more likely a purposive stylistic choice designed for her commercial stuff, but she's still able to pull this kind of fuller sounds whenever she wants to. 

Nah, not really resonant. I'd consider it open and had good placement, but she needed just some more chest coordination to get the rounder sound. Admittedly, that's probably the cleanest moment I've heard from her for a long while. And I didn't really expect it ngl, I was waiting for messy B4s with ugly vowels. 

But I still would not say that what she's been doing is stylistic lmao. To an extent, yeah, sure, you can say she chooses to sound as stuck as she is. But generally speaking, her 'stylistic' approach compromises even her basic C5s so no, it's not just entirely in her control. Especially since she really can't sing her old songs in the same way. I watched the small concert she had the other week, it's honestly a very messy attempt with hardly any effort to sound strong C5-D5 wise. She was pitchy too here and there. Yuju just wasn't trying.

Her choices in approach while may be intentional, still caused her overall cord muscles to regress and it's clear she still doesn't have as much strength even when she puts in a bit more effort. You could say it was the conscious choice at the start but she never made the effort to sing healthily either so in the end, she regressed. 

This was a nice surprise, but the difference between the B4s and the rest of her verses was honestly big. It just means that when she does her bare minimum, she could potentially do well but when she doesn't put in the effort, it will be very unimpressive. It may be a glimpse at the old Yuju but in a way that makes me think she doesn't really have her old spirit either lol. But at least now we know she didn't lose the cord developments completely, she's just... Kinda lazy technique wise.

1 hour ago, NMSyamin said:

No, not "chef's kiss" obviously. Remove the belting part and it was generally unpleasant

True. Remove the B4 and I was wholly unimpressed. She was barely trying. 

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5 hours ago, itzyabop said:

Some people in the community are already considering Lily to be low AA-P because of her handle of D5/Eb5 plus hv despite problems in fullness in her midrange. Haewon is also about to enter high AA because she’s been recently showcasing a couple of supported C#5s and D5s and is said to be the closest 4th gen gg vocalist to achieve resonance coz of her fullness in her midrange. Any thoughts on these two moving up? I don’t wanna doubt my girls TT but they’re moving up so fast I’m getting whiplash.

I feel like refraining from commenting too much bout 'ranking' these girls against others, but overall, no I don't fully agree. 

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1 hour ago, Yukihime said:

Hello ! 

 

I wanted to know how Luna did there ?  It's been a while since I last heard her sing so I don't know what or why but something sounds different ? Maybe I just forgot how she sounded in something less popp-y unlike her solo stuff. So just wanted to know if she got better/worse or if she's pretty much the same after her Broadway training. Thanks ! (Her part starts at 1:23) 

 

 

I wouldn't say she changed much over the years generally speaking, I haven't noticed any difference before or after her musicals. The reason why she can sound less impressive is because if she doesn't put in the effort, she'll sound quite light overall. 

In this case, this is the occasion where she does put in the work lol. She sounds great here. I wouldn't say it's less poppy, it's just more vocal oriented. It's studio but it's not like she's never shown this much before. @2:13, I like the phrased D5s and open C#5. @3:03, head voice carries support up to Bb5. Overall, she did nicely here. I'm glad to see that she hasn't lost comfort in any of her registers when she tries.

 

On 8/12/2022 at 8:42 PM, Tsukimono said:

What's keeping Yuju in AA? We all know about her regression, but as a big fan of hers I've been a bit underwhelmed with her lately(aside from that recent random performance where she had some open B4s). While she's still midish AA she doesn't feel as strong within A4-D5 as others in the tier, for example... Solji. 

Does she still have C#5? I haven't heard really any attempts from her that go above B4/C5 at all. Idk if she's even belted it this year. 

 

I was watching these two recent performances and wasn't feeling it, is it just me?

 

 

It's not just you, I was ready to expect the worst and demote her LMAO. And in some ways, she probably still will be. Yuju is still in AA imo, but in a relatively lower spot. Even if she's one of the few AAs with decent enough development in all her registers, her limitations in her mixed are a bit much. But that random performance of hers recently is enough proof for now (well, for me) that if she does bother to do so, she'll manage some decent notes here and there. I doubt she'll go for open C#5s but it's still enough for AA overall. 

Thing is, none of her current repertoire needs her to put in much effort, and I think we'll be seeing this for a while. 90% of her OSTs are just light head voice throughout as well, so it's obviously not in her interest to power belt now. 

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55 minutes ago, Tsukimono said:

Adding onto my earlier post about this girl... some more content from her.

In my mind now she supports.. surely she's at least P? Her belts sounds stronger than the likes of Wendy especially in the D5-F5/F#5 range...

She sounds at the very minimum to have C#5/D5

Proficient? I disagree tbh. She does support, but she's not doing extremely well on the belts. The D5s are not bad, there's some support on certain phrases but they're mostly pushed and a bit tight. The key on the Maktub song is just unnecessary lmao. I also don't hear any instance of openness or good vowels for her so unless she's got development in all the registers, she wouldn't be placed that high. I haven't heard enough to be sure, but she does remind me a bit of less developed Solji approach wise. She might have enough support in the early 5th octave, but she deals with some constriction and lack of freedom for the most part. She'd be AA at most, these songs don't really show the best range to know that lmao.

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On 8/31/2022 at 12:20 PM, Tsukimono said:

At approximately what notes does a soprano's head voice become A, AA, AA-P, P, etc? 

Like are consistently supported E5/F5's in hv impressive?

Uh... It's a bit difficult to judge tbh and it also depends on the coordination/strength of said head voice. Generally though, I'd say D5/Eb5 is pretty basic and could be an Average thing. E5 - F#5 could be a more 'AA' thing I guess. It's subject to how it's executed of course. I personally wouldn't say Ock'/s head voice is just AA worthy lmao, it's more developed than that. Just imagine Yuju's HV and I'd consider something that I'd expect from AA. G5 - A5, you could consider it a 'Proficient' head voice, assuming of course that this is the usual pop bright hollow head voice, like Wendy, Jamie, Minhye. They still have varying degrees between them but within that similar coordination, it's P worthy for me. If they have some depth in that area, it's another story lol. 

E5/F5 are okay enough to look for in a female idol. But overall, I'd say it's pretty basic for a soprano, though they can have nice moments there. For me, it starts to get interesting and impressive on and above F#5. 

On 8/31/2022 at 9:35 PM, nana_moon said:

this is just a short clip, but i'm curious, would Jooan from TAN be an Average?

 

Yeah, he's Average. 

15 hours ago, sergel said:

I know Jpop and Japanese singers don’t get talked much here, but I was always curious how AAA’s main vocalist Nissy is?

 

I don't remember if I've listened to him before but oh well. He seems to have two major modes: when he thins out and goes into his nose more, he sounds more like Haechan lol. Not quite as shallow, but still meh. But when he puts in more effort to be bolder (still kinda into his nose tho), he sounds like Ryeowook to me, and he can support fine there. 

@1:16, the only moment where he made some effort to be clean on G#4s. And it's not bad, though I'm a bit wary of the reverbs, it still sounds decent enough, maybe bright pushing. But otherwise, he's pretty meh. He gets stuck on random F4/F#4 phrases and gives off low Average ish vibes instead. 

47 minutes ago, exodus05 said:

How am I doing here @ZRH23@himi https://voca.ro/1lWkj94BpCkO thank you so much

Well, you've got the pretty tenor style covered lmao good job on that. There's no problem in going for that stylistic sound, but I do think you'll need to focus a bit more on maintaining a steady flow and support down the verses. Your pitch was a bit shaky throughout, most of the G#4s (?) phrases at the beginning were a bit flat, but they're not bad execution wise. Pretty nice and bright, 'support' isn't completely loss up there but yeah, you need a stronger chest development for it so your pitch is more accurate.

The issue with pitch and breath support carries all the way down to the Eb4s and C#4s after that, where you can struggled to sing it in a smooth tone. It sounds like your breath is kinda shallow there, especially judging by the end of each phrase. So try to be mindful of proper breathing and airflow even in the simpler ranges. Cuz otherwise you'll lose pitch, tone and support easily. There's still some support in your midrange, your cords have some work done already but it could be way more focused and full even with stylistic choices. Also don't worry bout the B4s and Bb4s, those are quite high and intense for tenors even if you're going bright. But overall, you sound nice. 

 

[ZRH23]

4 hours ago, exodus05 said:

Wait, I supported the G#4s??  And yeah I am really bad with my mid range  I am practicing everyday

Uh... I wouldn't word it like that lmao. It's just not bad, but judging with the rest of the clip, I'd say you'd need more development on your cords. In my opinion at least.

[ZRH23]

26 minutes ago, probee said:

Hello, just testing if am able to hear correctly, from their recent fan meeting. Lol.

3:13 -- Supported, the "jwo"?

2:48-3:03 -- Resonance or at least supported for the most part?

 

Yep, supported 'jwo' from Tiffany (B4 to A4 I think). 

The phrased D5 was opened and bright (I wouldn't use the term resonance in this moment but it was nice still). The E5 was not bad, one of the moments where she puts in more effort lol. It still got that slight high larynx to me, it didn't carry enough support imo but it was bright and decent enough. At least there's some alright moments from her at this event, I heard a few not very cute ones in other songs lmao. 

On 9/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, Renner said:

What do you guys think of Lyodra the Indonesia singer? I recall her having quite a messy chest pulling approach from the X-Factor or something of the sorts show but she has this annoyingly catchy power ballad rn and I think she sounds somewhat cleaner and more refined.

I'd personally say she's safely more than an just an Average. I like how her mid-range sounds here, head voice moments and C#5's carry support, but I recall from other performances she can still sound a bit rough or raw (like her chestiness & pushing compensates for her development) starting from Bb4's.

0:20 nice B4 and I'd say the D5 here carried support 0:50. I think she sounds like she's doing better compared to someone like Hwasa? let me all know what you guys think

Yeah, I guess she's more than Average but she's not very polished ngl. I like some of the B4s in the first song, but there were some with questionable placement like @2:46, plus that sloppy run. There's some moments where it gets into her nose too. @3:03, the best C#5 in the video, it carried support for that one and the placement isn't bad. But the other C#5s are meh. There's some support but she doesn't really keep the engagement strong and solid throughout. She's pushing here and there too. She doesn't keep the placement consistent too. I'm not liking her head voice tbh, it's airy all the way from B4ish lol. Even the F5ish area is a bit too thin for me to give a pass personally, it's closer to Eunji's attempts rather than a clean, supported head voice. The last F#5 was better but she didn't maintain the cord closure.

She was pushing those B4s and above for the Mariah cover, placement could be way better too tbh. A bit too on the throat. I wouldn't say the D5 was supported. 

I mean... Hwasa with all of her issues and whatnot wouldn't exactly be a high benchmark lmao. I suppose she's cleaner than Hwasa. But she's got some pretty consistent issues B4-C#5 and I wouldn't say head voice is much of an asset for her. Dunno if she's AA worthy tbh. 

On 9/3/2022 at 12:23 AM, Tinastory16 said:

I came across this video of Nct Yuta singing, he sounds better here than in Nct songs (except towards the end where he sounds tight)

Any thoughts ? @himi@BAZISSINO@ZRH23

I don't think he sounds that different from in NCT songs. Yuta still doesn't have the proper cords to carry that full breath support so while he's not tight or thin here, it's closer to shallow support for me. But he usually sounds like this I think 

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3 hours ago, jaedimps said:

Can you please elaborate on that?

With her current approach, when Taeyeon doesn't put conscious effort to be fuller, she'll end up sounding tight and small. I heard that in the Kissing You, it wasn't great lmao.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnxPMtrRpTs

@2:53, I expected better even if she didn't properly focus. It's a very big contrast from how she sounds in her earlier years ngl, not necessarily for the better too in this case lmao. Even in the midrange @2:28. The tonality wise it's on the same level even compared to the others lmaoo. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, caracalftw said:

Is it safe to give Haewon a pass on the D5’s?

 

 

 

The first clip had phrased Eb5s, they carried support. The second clip were D5 and C#5, both were nice. I mean yeah I'd give her a pass C#5/D5 at least. She can get a bit off up there if she's not focusing (which isn't that big of a deal but we need to wait for more).

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6 hours ago, Dangerous Beauty said:

@ZRH23Hello May I ask you that if you Yuju consistently sings like what she did in the wedding and the song that she covered the latest, will she considered back to her AA-P or High AA with better low and headvoice?

If she  continues to sing like that? She'll stay where she is lmao. Those moments are her only saving graces tbh, without them she'll be lower. Even in those songs, she's got the same issues as usual and I haven't heard any extra effort beyond B4/C5. 

[ZRH23]

7 hours ago, galhadineas said:

For someone who was singing a really opened C5 to go for a C#5 like that? Yeah, it almost sounded like a completely different person imo. Usually there's not that difference when singing a semitone higher.

 

3:18 

2:56 and 3:05

 

People going off on key changes can definitely happen, the usual factor is their cords/placement at the note. Some singers have their ‘money note’ on just one, then lose most of the good qualities when they jump to the next one. It’s not exactly easy to do it tbh, a semitone difference in the 5th octave is a lot especially if you’re trying to maintain the same sound. Granted ofc, Sunye does have a problem with her somewhat flimsy coordination, she can usually do better but I’m not surprised it just sort of gave out. 
 

Kei was just pushing her way through so I wouldn’t count that as a good example. Ailee is … Ailee lol, can’t compare that to Sunye’s case. Her cords are just way stronger than Sunye’s so she won’t have much of a struggle unless she’s overdoing the whininess. C5/C#5 is comfortable within Ailee’s limits, but it’s at the top for Sunye’s. The same way I wouldn’t put an example of key changes with Haeri even if it’s Eb5/E5  lol.  
 

Yuju at the time with C#5 as her limit. @3:50, open C5 but the C#5 got into her nose and her cords at the time weren’t that strong so it ends up sounding weaker even though she’s trying. 

It’s a pretty common thing for a vocalist that’s singing near the top of their limit. There’s only a few exceptions I can think of who really just do quite well even at the top of their comfort zone (like Chen with those G#4-A4 notes in that OST of his), but it’s more nuanced than that. Nonetheless, jumping from one note to the other while belting is pretty difficult especially for everyone below P. 
 

35 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

Hey guys! I'm pretty new here so I don't know if this has been discussed before (I couldn't find any relevant posts even after I searched for them) but I just wanted to ask who are the true baritones in k-pop and Korean music as a whole right now? I of course used to think the usual suspects (V, Jaehyun, Sungjae, Seungyoon, Hwanhee, Hyunmin, Youngjae) were baritones, but they've recently gotten re-examined in recent years and I believe the current consensus is that most if not all of the previously thought baritones are actually tenors. 

I guess that leaves John Park, Roy Kim, Hwang Chi Yeul, Han Dong Geun, and maybe Ko Woo Rim of Forestella...? Ko Woo Rim is definitely more debatable and honestly I don't think Han Dong Geun is a baritone, so that just leaves John Park, Roy Kim, and Hwang Chi Yeul?

Uhh, I haven’t really been searching out for baritones per se, but the most certain one would definitely be John Park. Which is a shame, cuz he’s not that impressive vocally lmao, so turns out there’s no belter baritones. 
 

Roy Kim and Hwang Chi Yeul are definitely tenors. 
 

He just sings in a relatively lower average range for a tenor. It can still work well cuz he brings some roundness around F4 already. @5:16, F#4, straight tenor. He’s not really darkening his sound either so it’s kinda clear. @5:32, G4 - A4. Pretty sure he’s had some good G4 notes too. 
 

Hwang Chi Yeul ,on the other hand, is weightier and often adds some artificial darkness/muddy quality to his voice (a lot of tongue issues follow). But the way he sings in the 4th octave is still very tenor. 
 

@2:18, singing a lot of G4s and G#4s in this performance. As tense and gritty as it is, the way he sings those shows that he’s a tenor regardless. A baritone would have a field trip singing in that range with that kind of intensity. Basically, Chi Yeul is like a rougher, messier K-Will.

Han Dong Geun is a tenor yep. Woorim is arguably a tenor too, but he kinda overdoes his whole ‘baritone’ role thing so I haven’t even heard him sing above Eb4s (or even talk without that low larynx) but I’d say he’s a tenor too. There can be tenors with strong lows, especially the ones who are more into classical.  
 

I still think Chanyeol is a baritone but yeah that’s it. There might be some others in K-pop groups but I doubt they sing much. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

13 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

Yeah John Park is indisputably a baritone, but I thought he was considered at least Proficient? Did he regress or something?

If Hwanhee is still considered a baritone he would probably be the best contemporary baritone today, at least by belting standards. It's either him or Scott Hoying but I honestly don't think Scott Hoying is a baritone either lol.

John Park didn’t regress, he’s just not as impressive as we initially thought . Not sure bout his ranking just yet, I just listen to him generally and he barely puts in effort in his mixed. Like, very barely. I don’t remember the last time he even tried to ‘belt’ something out, he mostly just goes for some lazy phrases around D4s - E4s, which isn’t exactly Proficient worthy when you’ve got tenors like Hongki or Junsu resonating consistently lol. He does have well rounded registers, but overall, he just doesn’t seem to have the capacity in his mixed range. It’s can be quite raw and unrefined too. 
 

Yeah, Hwanhee isn’t a baritone. He’s just a heavier tenor who sings darker and sort of neglects anything beyond G#4. I think Scott Hoying is indeed a baritone. He was never on the same level as belts as Hwanhee (it’s not like he regularly sustained G#4s lol) and plus, he’s much brighter in coordination, which makes sense and is still comfortably within the expected sound for a baritone. 

John Legend is also a chestier baritone who’s alright in his mixed, though he has some stylistic tendencies according to his genre. He mixes around and above G4 range often, but the sound is definitely different. 

 

20 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

Wow it's honestly surprising to hear that both of them but especially Hwang Chi Yeul are tenors! I thought for sure that Hwang Chi Yeul at least would be a true baritone. But yes I do agree with you, his voice is incredibly gritty and throaty, and at times I really can't tell if it's supposed to be stylistic or unintentional. I thought his technique was decent, but hearing you say he's a rougher, messier K-Will when K-Will already has plenty of technique problems of his own is very worrying lol ...  do you know his supported range? He supports up to F#4/G4 right?

Also, would a baritone really have trouble belting up to G4/G#4 with intensity like you said? I thought that A4 was around the maximum a baritone could belt with intensity before completely fizzling out, so it would be very high for them yes but not unreachable right? 

Actually Hwang Chi Yeul actually does belt a Bb4 here at 2:28 and while it's incredibly strained it does somewhat sound "intense" so I guess that's more proof he's a tenor lol.

Also quick side note but Kim Chang Yeon, the tenor Hwang Chi Yeul is singing with, also sounds very good. I've never heard of him before but his Bb4's sound supported and resonant, at least to my untrained ears lol. I don't know about that B4 at 4:19, but everything lower than that sounds very nice.

I’m not too sure of the extent of Chi Yeul’s support, he might’ve shown some better moments above that perhaps. 
 

Baritones belting around G4/G#4 would be quite a different sound compared to tenors. The easiest way for me to explain it is by just imagining tenors struggling on C5s. They’ll have to adjust their vowels, more often than not, and their vocal tract also has to shaped to be more narrow. It’ll result in a more thinned out, pinched sound that obviously would take up a lot of effort and big adjustments to how they approach the notes. Think of the usual K-pop tenor navigating through a passage in the 5th octave. At best, maybe the advanced ones like Park Hyo Shin can manage the passages at C5 with more fullness but there’s still gonna be a degree of compression because of how much you have to adjust your tract. It’s possibly for tenors to land a more ‘free’ sound on C5s, but usually it’s a pushed, bright open vowel climax note kinda thing. You don’t hear them approaching back-to-back C5s with full on belting. 
 

That’s what baritones would most likely have to do when singing G4/G#4s lol. It’s possible of course, but not with the kind of intensity/approach that Chi Yeul did. He was just passing through the G4s just fine, except for his own issues, but he didn’t struggle with having to compress it or adjust his tract. Baritones don’t fizz out on or after A4 specifically, but it’s a very high note to be ‘belting’ on. I haven’t really heard a tenor ‘belting’ on C#5s without some obvious brightness and compression. 
 

About Changyeon, unfortunately no, he’s not really resonating anywhere in the performance. He’s just quite bright. @3:46, that’s thin and pushed, but it’s bright so it doesn’t sound too ugly. @3:52, again, thin and kinda more in the throat imo, even the G4 after isn’t that strong tbh. The G4 carries support, I meant that he doesn’t have the coordination to make it ‘resonant’ and it’s nothing much. @4:19, bright and high larynx. He’s an AA as far as I’ve heard. 
 

41 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

I knew it. Do you know his supported range?

He's a tenor? I don't know about that tbh. While yes he does sound very light here, his lows are way too developed, weighty, and full to be a tenor methinks. Ha Hyun Woo is a tenor with phenomenal lows as well, but you can hear how even that is relatively light and breathy compared to the natural weight of a baritone.

Although I do think Ko Woo Rim is also lowering his larynx quite a lot to achieve that sort of sound, but again I'm untrained so I can't detect that kind of stuff easily lol.

Han Dong Geun also has some quirks that’s got to do with his larynx position (most prominently) but I think it mostly translates to messy tongue lol. He gets rather pushy, but I’ve heard some quite nice belts up to G#4s, with some nice vowels and passable resonance imo. His A4s get a bit too pushed for me though. There could be some better moments. He’s got a nice lower range too, at least around C3, and most probably carries it down in 2nd octave too. 
 

Low notes are one of the aspects to listen to when identifying tenor or baritones, sure, but we gotta take into account on how Woorim sings. It’s not a really solid comparison between him and other pop tenors. Woorim is straight up ‘classical’ and he’s singing with a lowered larynx 90% of the time. This isn’t necessarily bad (though it’s not exactly proper by opera standards) but it does change the sound of his lows. There are some operatic tenors who can sound strong down to F2-Eb2 areas still. And personally, I do hear some tenor quality even in the low notes. 

Like in that first video, I’d expect a baritone of that coordination to be way fuller, and passing through that passage with less intensity spikes. Even with just normal pop larynx, I can phrase around A2/G#2 in just speaking sort of tone and effort, without the added ‘dips’ into the notes like what he’s doing. And he’s at his limit around F2/E2 (almost fry), which is low even for baritones, but I think if a baritone with that coordination were to sing it, it would’ve been way more present and less muddy. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Do people still think BTS' rap line are baritones? There's also two solo artists named Jung Joon Il and Jung Joon Young, but Jung Joon Il is most definitely a tenor and Jung Joon Young might be a true baritone but he's no longer active in the music industry anymore cuz he was involved in the biggest k-pop scandal of all time lmao.

I have no idea but the raps they do can be pretty high pitched, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were tenors. 
Yes, Jung Joon Il is a tenor.  The convict is also a tenor . 
 

1 hour ago, Tsabar said:

1:36 E4

https://youtu.be/qOmgbIADt4E

1:26 F4

 

The E4 is giving me tenor vibes ngl. He doesn’t have that much presence there, yknow like I would’ve thought a baritone with that kind of larynx position would’ve sounded heavier. But he was not as low-larynxed there, it was a bit brighter so I think it’s a bit clear for me to be more of a tenor. 
 

The F4 has much more of a consistently low larynx position but again, it doesn’t exactly scream baritone to me. But there’s room in that clip for doubt. 
 

@0:40, his speaking range is more like a tenor’s to me. It can be a bit lower here and there cuz he likes to talk in fry (or sometimes even straight up low larynx too) but there’s a lot of moments there where he mainly talks in E3 - G#3 range, even up to Bb3ish in certain phrasing. He goes around A2ish at the end of phrases but again, it’s more like fry.

@1:00, meanwhile Chanyeol is averaging around B2 - F2, E3ish at the top phrases here and there. 

It’s not necessarily foolproof, but considering Woorim goes into the low larynx, dark sound 90% of the time (even when he’s speaking ), it’s the most direct comparison we can get. Chanyeol’s speaking range is pretty low by comparison, it just doesn’t sound like it. 
 

@0.50, peaks at around F#3ish but he mostly just stays at G2 area. 
 

So yeah, I think he’s a tenor probably. But that’s just me (and C.Y pointed it out to me along with an example of an operatic tenor who can produce the kind of sound Woorim is making in the lower ends of second octave). 

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, redhoodedgirll said:

Wow can't wait for this

 

 

 

Yuju singing This is Me when she’s struggling with the stuck C#5s and D5s all this while??? Oh Lord… With Lily and Ailee, she can’t bring her indie ass style in there . 
 

Lily might just sound the most acceptable there cuz Ailee with her whiny vowels may not be as suitable as Lily’s bright notes, at least on F5s and above. 
 

Also, 3 solo stuff for Lily? Wow. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

24 minutes ago, nana_moon said:

I'm curious, besides Jaehwan, was there anyone else in Wanna One who was able to support? Even just shallowly?

Also, was Jaehwan the strongest male vocalist to come out of Produce 101? I know there's Wei's Seokhwa from PX101 who is Average, Junho and Seungwoo are W-A, Nu'est Baekho is an Average....was there anyone else on those seasons who was any good?

Thank you!

Yeah. I did come across their KOMS performances and some clips recently. Sungwoon and Seungwoo both sound like they're Average. Minhyun also sounds alright in his KOMS performance, though it was a bit more limited in range but sounds like he can support, might be an Average too. Possibly. I haven't the rest of them though so.

The strongest male vocal to appear in PD101? I think Hweseung appeared on there first, right? He'd be the strongest (Mid AAish at least) if I'm not missing anyone else. Kinda doubt it, would've noticed if anyone there could produce resonance lol. 

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15 minutes ago, nana_moon said:

Seungwoo, Sungwoon and Minhyun are all Averages?? wait, really?? i was always under the impression that were all like W-A at best, or worse. especially since this video from Himi on the thread says Junho is W-A, and the strongest in X1?

so is Seungwoo actually stronger than him?

oops you're right Hweseung was on Season 2, I completely forgot about that. what about Woodam from that PD101?

Yeah, probably. 

I don't like Sungwoon's approach and placement, quite whiny but yeah, support up to F#4 and throughout midrange.

Starting from @0:22, it's cleaner (but can still be slightly into his nose) than Sungwoon's and it's quite nice for him, support throughout up to those F#4s. Definitely Average. I think he sounds stronger than I remember, which is odd since apparently he hasn't released music since 2020. Or maybe I remembered wrong idk. 

@1:00, he sounds a bit softer than the other two but yeah, support seems to be present. The short phrased F#4s are all fine. He's the least developed I'd say, but sounds passable for Average. 

Junho was getting shallow and a bit stuck in his throat on F4s, Seungwoo was clean on F#4s so yeah, he's better lol.

I just checked Woodam for a bit and yeah, he's Average. Hweseung still leaves quite a gap from the others (to be fair, I think he wasn't quite as developed as now when he was in PD but still AA)

 

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26 minutes ago, nana_moon said:

wow, so Wanna One had 4 people who could support then, out of 11, and Nu'est vocal line had 2 out 5 (Baekho and Minhyun)....that's wayy better than I thought they ever were. I wonder if there was anyone else who was W-A. Daehwi? Ren? 

hang on, i think we're getting seungwoo and seongwoo completely mixed up, i meant is Han Seungwoo, this guy, stronger than Junho:

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(purple hair)

not Ong Seongwu from Wanna One lmao. kind of crazy that both groups had a guy with a very similar name, just one alphabet difference.

i knew my deaf ears could hear Woodam could support!!

Ohhh Han Seungwoo lmao. Pretty sure the ‘seungwoo’ name is spelled the same either way, it’s the surname that’s different. Okay yeah, Han Seungwoo is W-A at most. I guess you could say Junho is stronger but that guy only has like, 2 occasions where he tried a bit more in his midrange but he’s still shallow above E4ish. 
 

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59 minutes ago, nana_moon said:

also....on the subject of Seungwoo, is Seungsik an Average then?

Yeah, and Seungsik is one of the better Averages I’d wager. Sounds like he could be high A. 

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7 hours ago, RATY said:

If Hwanhee wasn't a baritone, what would his rank be?

He can produce open notes up to G#4 but he generally has a slightly rough style in mixed voice, he doesn't have a supporting head voice. How much does his A2 help him? G#4 isn't that impressive if he's not a baritone.

I don't know how much gap there is with the lyric tenor .

 

He'd still be at least a Proficient. His vocal weight in itself doesn't mean much (because in most cases, there's no discernible gap in difficulty for pop music at least) but Hwanhee coordinates wayyy heavier than the usual pop tenor. He does have a relatively lower larynx position and all that, and quite consistent with resonance up to G#4. He is basically the tenor version of MoonTaek now, except with less skill above G#4 but better lower range. But I wouldn't say he's beyond P-G, his mixed is very limited for a tenor. 

4 hours ago, WWW3 said:

Are you guys sure that Seungyoon is a tenor? I have seen him used headvoice on F4 and I honesty don't think tenors can use the upper register that low.

 

Aside from the clip RATY showed, the head voice thing is a bit of an inconclusive thing as far as vocal typing goes. Some can bring their head voice to the 3rd octave even. 

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46 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

Oh wow I didn't know that lol I was just going off of his KVA profile and I think before Ahmin got rid of the ranking system John Park was rated as Proficient.

Yeah, I remember that too. John Park was at the top of P for the male vocalists. It's not like he regressed, I just have a different opinion on him personally and disagree with how his mixed was analysed. The same goes for Jamie actually, who was alos given top P rank but look how that turned out lol.

48 minutes ago, fire_dagwon said:

I don't know... both Hwanhee and Scott Hoying belt past G#4 quite a bit from what I've seen at least? But you're obviously more knowledgeable than me so I'll take your word for it lol. If Scott is a true baritone then he's also the lightest baritone I've ever heard, his notes have practically no weight to them from what I hear lmao.

Nahh, don't just take my words for it just yet lmao. If there's any doubt, that's still valid. I haven't really checked Scott's recent vocals, but I do remember sometimes going for phrased A4/Bb4, which are still reasonable. I don't think he actively belts there afaik. What screams baritone for Scott is more so his E4 - F#4, the range where baritones have that sweet spot for belting (like a tenor's G4 - A4 or soprano's C5 - Eb5). 

@0:44, he was singing less bright here and not very refined mixing wise tbh (trying for that growly, chesty sound) but that's an F#4 and I haven' heard a tenor having to sing that note with that kind of stretch before. @1:05, same for this F#4. @1:52, F4, this time cleaner and brighter, it's still quite belty for him.  He's singing with that kind of intensity in range of like D4 - F#4.  @2:18, F#4s are squeezed and I think it's more of a high larynx kinda feel here (I'm not sure if this is old or he's just not that consistent here). See, it is possible for tenors to sound rough or overly pushed on F#4s if they're darkening their voice too much and all that, but I've never heard them have a high larynx on simple F#4s lol. @2:27, this attempt is better, he's struggling with the vowel/tract shaping(also not something i've found in tenors). @3:13, this sounds like a baritone belting in the middle to low 4th octave. Even tenors who put in effort to round their vowels on Eb4s don't have this intensity down there. To me, it's just like when tenors go for F#4- A4. @5:56, G#4 was his limit back then, you hear the comparison compared to Seungyoon blasting out a G4 randomly lol.

Meanwhile for Hwanhee: @4:40, it's not nearly as intense as Scott's. And he doesn't have to adjust much for it either. Tenors already start belting at F#4 of course, but it doesn't sound or feel particularly high from them, even with Hwanhee's more narrow vowel shaping sometimes. @4:47, a relatively brighter G4 from Hwanhee and it doesn't carry the sense of struggle that Scott does on F#4s. I also never heard Scott approach G4s head on like that before (there may be some moments that I dont know bout tho). 

Alos, yes, Hwanhee's A4 and above sounds hella compressed like what I mentioned to be what's expected of tenors by C5s or so. Well... that's just his doing lol. He just never really figured how to belt fully past G#4 and resorts to doing adjustments earlier than where he's supposed to. It's quite weird for a tenor but yeah. Before he went into this journey of his very heavy approach, Hwanhee was kinda bright in his early days. 

@2:05, A4 is definitely giving tenor sound lmao. It's very early SM too, approach wise. 

I wouldn't say Scott carries no weight per se, but I think we're used to expecting baritones to sound like heavy tenors lol. Not really. Lyric baritones like Scott will probably just sound like a pop tenor, just a few semitones lower. Not everyone will sound like Frank Sinatra, there's a very obvious, distinct coordination there that makes that sound. Pop baritones will sound poppy. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Ah, so you're saying that a baritone belting up to G#4/A4 would sound incredibly thin, just like a tenor belting up to C5, but some more advanced and better trained baritones can still sound relatively full, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Then a baritone's "C5" is A4, right? Or would it be G#4?

A4 is a really tough note to hit for baritones. Even Park Hyo Shin as good as he is isn't 100% consistent on his C5's, hence why his KVA profile lists his supported range as B4/C5. Which is funny because he has supported and even resonated C#5's before lol.

Is there any contemporary tenor alive today who can fully, consistently support and resonate in the lower fifth octave? David Phelps maybe?

Not necessarily incredibly thin, but it'll be rather obvious if they're going to try constant G#4s like Hwanhee does lmao. They might also be able to mix brightly like tenors in the 5th octave but there's limited examples for baritones. I'm not sure of the exact equivalent note-by-note, but A4s is around C5 level of intensity yeah. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Is there any contemporary tenor alive today who can fully, consistently support and resonate in the lower fifth octave? David Phelps maybe?

Yeah, David Phelps is one, and also someone who incorporates that more lowered larynx into his belts. There are probably others but I don't have anyone in mind so far. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's someone who can go brightly into those C5/C#5 area, we already have a few in Korean music who can maintain that at B4s so.. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

I agree. A4 is just about his limit and where he starts to get rather inconsistent. This A4 in Downpour at 3:20 is probably his best and most well-placed. It has some slight throatiness though.

His A4's in his busking performance of Amazing You starting at 3:43 and especially the one at 3:48 all sound very nice to me despite the major pushing.

If he's consistent up to G#4, then his rating would be at least AA right? Maybe AA to P? And what his voice type be? I know he can sound either very light or dark depending on the song, so for me it's really hard to judge. My best guess is he's a Full-Lyric Tenor?

A bit too pushed for me on that A4. The phrased ones maybeee I can give a pass but it's still meh for me personally. Yeah, he'd be at least AA. He doesn't sound as naturally weighty as K-Will/Chi Yeul to me even when he lowers his larynx a bit. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Hm, I know he lowers his larynx quite a bit, but I didn't know that he had a classical background which caused him to do that. He's either an extremely low tenor or a true baritone, and I honestly think he's a baritone.

Far enough lol. I don't really care much since he doesnt sing in a tenor range anyway. 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Oh and I didn't know you were a baritone either lol. Are you trained? I'm completely untrained lmao. I think I'm also a baritone or a very untrained tenor, I really have no idea because my lowest note is D2 (C#2 on a good day and idk about my fry) and my maximum comfortable belt is G#4. My A4 is inconsistent but improved a lot from my earlier years. Bb4 I can do once in a blue moon in my absolute best condition lol. I can falsetto up to C6 and maybe D6 on a good day.

Yeah, I'm a baritone lol. No, I'm not trained, but I did practice a bit of the basics. If you're completely untrained and can have a comfortable belt at G#4, you sound like a straight up tenor to me lol. When I started singing, my ass was struggling with hitting E4s, much less anything above G . Untrained tenors also would struggle in that range so that sounds pretty in line. Also, I do think that the limits for falsetto/head voice can vary person-to-person but in my case, Bb5 is my limit. I physically can't go beyond that with my head voice, at the time being (I also am not gonna bother my way up there lol). And around G5 area, it would already be hella high for a baritone (you can hear Scott's for reference) but tenors can do it pretty often in their songs so. 

1 hour ago, WWW3 said:

Really? Do you have any examples of that?

Not in artists, I only heard from other people. There's no point of doing that musically speaking haha, I was just saying that tenors transitioning into head voice at their passagio is still defo possible. 

1 hour ago, BabyKBK said:

 

While specifically labelling pop and kpop singers with sub-typing a isn't necessary at all,

The "Full-lyric" label has been used as an umbrella term to generalise any voice that sounds bigger and mature in kpop and pop. A lot of these supposed Full-Lyrics would arguably be Spinto and Dramatics if classically trained. Meanwhile some "full-lyrics" like Celine Dion, Hyena Park, Lara Fabian and Sonnet Son are actually developed standard sopranos. Their voices carry very little weight and is actually light in timbre despite sounding matured.

I don't want to debate much but let's just say spinto and dramatic voice types have been under-identified. 

Well yeah, and it can be quite obvious too who the weightier ones are. But I dont really see the point of identifying spintos and all that specifically, I just call them heavy sopranos/tenors. Eunji is definitely not just full-lyric for example but it doesn't really matter with her kind of singing. 

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12 minutes ago, WWW3 said:

people can only start using the upper register around  their second passaggi, right? Around the first passaggi is where you start mixing and around the second passaggi is where you start using your upper register, is that not true?

I’m not sure how true that is. You can still engage in the muscles responsible for your head voice even below your passagi. I personally can use it down to D3/C#3ish but like… there’s no reason to . Plus, the sound does get quite weak down there so like I said, it doesn’t seem musically beneficial either. But using those muscles down there is definitely possible and not exclusive after your 2nd passagi.

I’ve also heard the sopranos sing in head voice in the lower 4th octave as well. 

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1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

And I have no idea what my passaggio are, how can I find out?

For the males, we have 2 pretty close passagi. Tenors’ would be around C#4/D4 at their first one, then E4/F4 at their second one. Give or take one semitone depending on the weight of the tenor’s voice. 
 

For baritones, the passagi would be Bb3/B3 and C#4/D4, more or less. If anybody here knows better, do correct me but I do think this is the general rule. But depending on how you sing, you might not hear that much of a difference even as you climb up. You’d need to know what you’re looking for to hear properly. That’s why for these heavier tenors, the best way to determine their voice types isn’t how they sound at the baritones’ passagio (C#4/D4) but rather, at the tenors’ passagio (F4ish). Because these tenors can still have some respectable amount of output at C#4 area cuz it’s their first passagio anyways, if they go full chest then they’d still sound pretty heavy. But baritones singing at F4/F#4 would be rather distinct. 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

I actually don't lol, what happened with Jamie?

She was sort of misanalysed. Jamie doesn’t really have full resonance A4 - C#5, it’s just bright and quite lacking compared to the others. Plus, she’s got some quirks around A4 - B4 over the years. 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Yeah I guess I see what you're talking about... although a lot of that is Scott in his earlier years when his technique was less refined. Nowadays he sounds so much lighter and brighter, regularly phrasing into the middle-upper fourth octave, and sometimes even sustaining belts there. Perhaps he was a baritone back then and he's finally grown into his tenor self?

Also, and maybe this is just my inexperience and untrained ears talking, but I don't hear that much of a difference in intensity between Seungyoon's D4-F#4 range and Scott's. Hell if anything Seungyoon honestly sounds darker and more mature to my ears lol.

Watch everything in this video from 12:01 to 13:59, which cover's Scott's (and Matt's) belting range from A4 to B4. This video played a very large part of convincing me that perhaps Scott is an underexplored tenor.

Nah, you don’t really ‘grow’ into another voice type at that age lol. Usually most singers have already settled into their fachs by their teenage years. Maybe the weight and all that may change (possibly, not sure) but it won’t drop until a few semitones down or even less likely, rise up lmao. 
 

It’s still possible for baritones to phrase or sustain above G4/G#4 even, like I said, tenors can climb up all the way to soprano territory so it’s not like baritones are completely encumbered when it comes to mixing high. But the sound will be different. Also, intensity ≠ weight. I’m sure Park Hyo Shin in his 2003 era would’ve sound wayyyy heavier than Scott or John Legend, but it still doesn’t change the fact that he was a tenor even back then. Even if it’s within the same range. You’ll have to hear the distinction between those two. 
 

The notes that Scott sang in the G#4 - B4 area didn’t really scream tenor to me. He doesn’t have a lot of presence there even though he was being quite bright. And it’s not like he wasn’t trying, some of those notes he was obviously pushing out but it just does not have the same feel as a tenor’s. Sure, there are cases where darker tenors struggle up there but that’s mostly cuz they’re not good at tenor-ing, and yet they still carry some better amount of strength up there cuz that’s where their voices mainly shine. Even Hwanhee has way larger better presence at G4/G#4 than Scott ever showed though he struggles a lot above that.
 

Listen to that G4 and B4. Seungyoon has a pretty heavy texture to his voice, and less bright than Scott, but his presence and sound on those G4 and B4 are way more better even on the spot. Mind you, Seungyoon doesn’t have the best mixing either. Scott’s Bb4/B4 or even G4 is nowhere near this kind of sound, which is understandable considering he’s a baritone. Scott instead has to compress his vowels, narrow his vocal tract and go into slightly twangier/whiny mode to hit those notes like the B4 at @13:55. Those Bb4s in the Dear Evan Hansen song are pretty small too. Seriously, 90% of the pop tenors can shout/push/squeeze/strain out A4 - B4 with more presence even if they’re not advanced. Even the Bangtan gang regularly do it way easier and louder, it’s just a tenor thing. 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Oh of course, which is why I thought and maybe still think that a lot of the heavier sounding male idols are baritones and not a lower type of tenor. Because honestly, more baritones in pop music is always a good thing because it's just so utterly dominated by tenors. Although just because someone sounds "heavier" doesn't necessarily mean they're automatically a baritone, obviously.

Yeah but being a baritone in pop is harder really. Most songs are written in a high key. You’d have to be quite in tune with the foundations of vocal technique to even stand a chance at covering normal songs lol. Even for songs that seem low in range, like Jung Joon Il’s Hug Me with only E4s for the majority of the song, that’s a whole ass workout for baritones. It’s just written in a way that it’s consistently above your passagio constantly and it gets tiring fast, that’s why the baritones you can identify in pop so far are either skilled or have gone into rapping. It’s just been that way for a while. 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Honestly what I'm more interested in are baritones who have a darker mix past G#4. Probably super rare but it would sound like sex on the ears.

Darker mix past G#4?? I’ve rarely ever heard of tenors applying lowered larynx all the way into 5th octave except for people like David Phelps (who isn’t exactly mainstream music lol) so I’d doubt you’d find a lot of those unless you want to listen to opera. That’s just a high expectation. And ngl, I think they’d sound a bit whiny rather than sexy . 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

David Phelps is honestly an inhuman monster and indisputedly the best contemporary male singer alive. That man consistently resonates up until C#5, and he can even resonate a D5 here and there. I don't think his support extends up till Eb5, but I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to do it once or twice. He's probably he closest thing to a male Sohyang we have and no man today matches his skill level. Like I said earlier, Park Hyo Shin comes close despite his inconsistency around the C5 area, and in fact is probably the second best contemporary male singer in the world (I have no idea what Dimash's supported range is but I've heard it's actually not very good). Honestly most of those C5 inconsistencies come from performances of Wildflower where he got overly emotional and cried, so of course his singing was impacted. Plus, the man has resonated C#5's before, so I have no qualms giving him the crown of second best contemporary male vocalist alive kek.

Third is probably Naul and fourth is probably Jung Dong Ha, if I missed any other technically stellar male singers (western or Korean) let me know lmao.

Ngeh, I’d be careful of saying someone is indisputably the best vocalist etc and whatnot. There might just be someone out there that we in a small community don’t know about lol. And David Phleps isn’t perfect either overall. I wouldn’t really compare him to Sohyang either, they’re mixed aren’t even that similar aside from how they both use lowered larynx even as they climb up.
 

Sure, there’s probably not a lot of candidates but I’d personally not call any of these people inarguably the best male vocalists alive . 
 

1 hour ago, fire_dagwon said:

Man I'd honestly love to hear some of you guys sing! Is there a fancover/karaoke thread on this site anywhere?

Ehhh I have this clinching feeling you may be right. I thought my voice carried a lot of weight, but listening to recordings of myself I don't even sound as dark as Jung Seung Hwan lmao. My substandard ass just couldn't sing any high notes so I thought I was a baritone lol.

Honestly that tweet of Seungyoon doing scales with Sumi Jo is scarily similar to how I sound and what I'm capable of ? F4-G#4 is easy, A4 is doable but clearly uncomfortable and ever so slighty unstable, and Bb4 is currently incredibly inconsistent.

I'd love to have a proper vocal teacher really help me develop my instrument but with just how wide and varied teaching styles and techniques are I quite frankly don't trust anyone to give me the exact type of voice I want lol. CVT is the dominant teaching style in the western world and I'm not a huge fan of it so I'm kinda outta luck.

I don’t know bout any karaoke thread around here. Some people post covers here and whatnot but usually to ask for feedback. I did that a long time ago but I was a newbie here so , got somewhat better since then. 

Jung Seunghwan is also a tenor who uses heavier approach, a slightly lowered larynx than the bright tenors. Plus, he’s quite consistent with it and doesn’t have any occurring tongue problems as well. Even with that though, he’s not as weighty as K-Will gang so I don’t think he’s into that dramatic subtype personally. 

For untrained singers, it’s easy to underestimate how much work these vocalists put into their voices. Even the Average vocalists. Honestly, it’s a lot . Not trying to make this about me, but yeah from my experience, it takes quite a bit of work to get those cords working and strengthen up. Even ‘supporting’ or just sounding decent when sustaining takes a lot of time. It works semitone by semitone, and that takes a longgg while. Even with proper guidance, some takes years to really polish themselves and even then it’s not the peak. It takes considerable talent to reach the likes of Good tier and whatnot imo. 
 

It depends on what kind of voice you want to train yourself to have. If it’s just the usual bright pop coordination like 80% of K-pop tenors, then that’s honestly doable if you self train, provided that you know what you’re doing lol. It’s not too complicated imo. For the more advanced stuff like applying lowered larynx coordination though, that will need a lot of time and good guidance. 

 

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23 minutes ago, caracalftw said:

lily’s lows aren’t actually bad!

I’d give a pass to some G#3s in Hello. But she’s inconsistent with it, depending on how she places her voice down there. The AKMU cover is a bit bright and lack some groundedness, even the A3s are meh. Even in Hello it’s not that strong yet. Hopefully she’ll put in a bit more work. 

13 minutes ago, Solemn_Penance said:

Hello, lurker here with a question for the vocal experts. I've always wondered which of these high notes in this SNSD performance was best performed? From a purely technical standpoint and with no bias. I'm curious about the reasons behind your ranking too.

1:13 Seohyun

2:46 Jessica

2:06 Tiffany

3:08 Taeyeon

 

Raw fancam:

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0:43 Seohyun

1:35 Jessica

2:15 Tiffany

2:37 Taeyeon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ww8i74GWo

 

Taeyeon’s up first by far, her D5 carried some support even if a bit tense, and the runs were the cleanest amongst them. 
Other than that, it’s a bit interchangeable but I’d personally vote for Tiffany tbh, SeoJes were whiny and into their nose even though their D5 were less pushed.  

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3 hours ago, WWW3 said:

Wait didn't KVA say that tenor's passaggi is around D4/Eb4 and G#4/A4 and baritone's passaggi is around Bb3/B3 and Eb4/E4?

G#4/A4 seems a bit too high for their second passagi lol. E4/F4 might be more of a lower tenor’s passagi but I think F4/F#4/G4 is the general one for tenors. Baritones’ would be around C#4~Eb4ish, depending on the weight. 
 

I mean… the whole basis of their ‘criteria’ earlier on is based on the singer’s ability to sing past their 2nd passagio (i.e. an AA tenor would be able to support past F4~G4 range) so it seems a bit odd that it’s way up there at A4. Other users here who’s more into voice typing also refer to F4 ~ G4 as the passagi for tenors. 
 

3 hours ago, WWW3 said:

I mean Ahmin is a vocal trainer, he also went to Musicians Insitute, I don't think he would get the passaggi wrong that much. I mean it's basic knowledge and there're probably many books write about it as well.

That blog is rather old now and maybe there’s information here and there that might not be updated. Especially the general notice/summary thing, I don’t think that one had been revised for a while.

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2 hours ago, fire_dagwon said:

Oh yeah of course, I wasn't implying he was a baritone or anything. I'm just saying that I happen to sing even lighter than him and yet I still thought I was a baritone lol.

But it's nice to know he's pretty good amongst his peers! He's also one of my favorites and biggest singing inspirations as well. The only glaring issue I've found with him is some very apparent nasality, which seems to be a recent development unfortunately. Do you know his supported range? I'm assuming F#4/G4?

Oh yeah, I know you didn’t think he’s a baritone, it’s just a fun fact bout him lol. 
F#4/G4?? Nope lmao. Right now, I’d give him G#4/A4 or just A4. He does get into his nose a bit (plenty of singers do) but he knows when to open up and his resonance can be quite sizeable. Plus, he’s one of the ones with darker vowels too even though there’s some issue with him being tense. 
 

2 hours ago, fire_dagwon said:

figured. I kinda just want to sound decent and consistently support with the occasional resonance, so maybe around A-AA or maybe AA if I really wanted to push myself. I don't even have any plans of performing or going pro either, I just really like singing and want to sound the best I can.

I understand haha. I just do it as a fun hobby/experiment of mine. I wouldn’t compare ourselves to any tiers and whatnot, there’s some nuances between amateurs and professionals as far as applying technique and singing goes. But just singing and working towards eliminating tension and developing your vocals is always doable. I’ve been at it for a while and I sure as hell am not gonna go into music for anything other than just a hobby lol. 
 

Also I think I remember commenting on that Son Seungyeon thing on YouTube but not sure if that was in reply to you or another user lmao 

Edited September 21, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, SanaReleaseYourHoldOnMe said:

Hello, my good friends, a new video of predebut Doyoung (a member of a group called NCT) just dropped. Any thought ?

 

Well, he sounds different lmao. Technique wise, he was a lot less stylistic and void of quirks. His G4s and G#4s carried some support, but they were obviously cords in training. He wasn’t fully settled yet (as compared to now even with the stuck placement). But he was placing his voice more forward and properly, and there was more effort on chest engagement throughout. At the same time though, I think he did lack a distinct tone/flavour to his voice and something that I’ve noticed with idols is they tend to sing in this pretty classic kinda chestier, grounded approach during predebut and I’m assuming it’s during the time they often take vocal lessons. It’s almost like a basis that seems to be somewhat common. But it also means that they don’t really sound special lol so they often modify their approach to fit for a more distinct tone. More often than not though this comes with their fair share of quirks and weird tension so there’s that. 
 

But yeah, true to SM Main vocal style, Doyoung did have some nice foundation pre debut.