Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

14 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

with new materials where would u put her in a-aa ? between who ?

I don't think my thoughts on her changed really. Somewhere along the leagues of SeoSica I guess. It depends on her B4/C5s now that's all but not much change from that.

13 hours ago, _ohmyvon said:

@ZRH23 how does that work, isn’t ningning’s low chest register the best out of the 4th gen? Her case is really weird for me. Usually the ones with good lows will also have good chesty highs (almost too chesty),

Not really. There are plenty of singers with good enough chest development in their mixed but not that impressive lows. It's the same concept. Debut era Taeyeon was relatively chesty, but she struggled below A3 anyways. The low register and the mixed range don't necessarily mean one or the other. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

14 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

how she did in this short So What acappela?

She actually performed the entire song in that festival 

 

1:28,  2:00, 2:45-2:50, 3:38.

See Sea Q2 ver

 

1:03, 2:50-3:06, 3:10-3:15.

Not really a fan of her placement in the acapella clip, just could've been a bit more cleaner and forward. She's still doing better than Queendom imo.

Same goes with the one with music. It happens when she tries to go for a more aggressive approach, she doesn't retain as much strength as if she were to go clean and forward imo. It gets a bit in her throat. She's growling obviously but placement wise and the fullness of those 5th octave notes are still some issues for her. 

@1:03, Eb5 could've been better. Again, just retaining the fuller, open sound would be something she has some trouble with. It's not just at the Eb5s, the C#5s in this song also could've been a lot better imo. But she does try to bring some more presence here and there like @1:58. @2:50, C5 and C#5 again could've been way better. This is where I hear her being more iffy compared to like Uji, who isn't as strong E5/F5 but still delivers better notes Bb4 - D5 most of the time. @3:04, this is the kinda pushed, smaller sound that I hear in Queendom, there's enough support but I don't really like it. 

Is this on the same day as the last Hyolyn post I replied to? Cuz she sounded great on that one, it's a bit different from these clips. 

5 hours ago, _ohmyvon said:

Does that mean that it takes more chest development to use a chesty mix rather than low notes? Because I get that impression since many claim that ning has no chest development to pull up her chest to her mix.

Not necessarily, it's just that the approach people use when developing their mixed and lower register may be different. They might aim for a fuller sound in their low register, but train their mixed to be bright. It's not mutually exclusive but not inclusive either. It's not a matter of 'more' chest development, it can be two separate aspects imo. 

2 hours ago, Sarah Oon said:

Seosica level?? That seems quite low for someone who most likely has C5/C#5 and is relatively developed in all their registers.

Even if she has C5/C#5, what she has shown so far isn't really a far cry from SeoSica level unfortunately. I'd say she has a more consistent and strong sound in her midrange up (both Jessica and Seohyun has shown floppy moments there) but the actual quality of her mixed is not that different. Tbh... Jessica has shown way more instances of her bringing up better fullness and openness Bb4 - C5 even if they're kinda isolated moments. Seohyun too, even with her whininess she's shown some strength up there, she doesn't always go as light as Ningning. I do think overall, NN may be a more developed vocalist (we'll see, there's still time to say otherwise) but basically she wouldn't be far from them at all. Seunghee also has shown better moments throughout her mixed range.

2 hours ago, Renner said:

Taeyeon performed Some Nights recently. I think the Eb5's in the bridge weren't bad and she lowered the F5 note. I kinda wish she'd ditch the lazy mode already lol.

Wait for her concerts maybe, she might go all out then lol. I do think she has some amount of improvements, just a bit stronger in the 5th octave. The Eb5s were a bit tense still, but she's getting there. Most of the notes are into her nose though lmao. @2:55, I can hear this being quite a good D5 if she wasn't projecting into her nose. She's putting in effort, but placing a lid over it basically. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

On 6/22/2022 at 5:51 AM, Lovelinuz said:

Lovelyz Kei new upper belts!

 

I remember seeing this back then but didn't get a chance to listen to it. Kei's doing well as usual, her vowel shaping is still off and she kinda goes into her nose  like always. But aside from that, she's doing good up to C5/C#5. 

Support down to Bb3 in the beginning, the G#3s aren't too bad, she might be fine on A3 now. Her head voice is there, it could be way better tbh. It's alright till the Eb5s but it sounds more like she wants to go a bit falsetto ish. @2:30, C#5s carry support but some phrases are projected through her nose. She has no problems with C5s phrasings so far. @2:52, C5 is supported, just the vowel is meh. @3:02, not bad phrasings. 

Also, catching up on some Kei performances:

Nice full midrange throughout, it's already stronger than most of the A-AAs there. @0:10, phrasings till C5 is smooth and clean, she's going with her more chesty sound. She's also an example of someone with pretty developed chest muscles but doesn't really carry that down her lower register. @1:25, her placement throughout is pretty nice except for some occasions where she gets a bit into her nose, this is stronger, cleaner sound than what Wheein or Hwasa does nowadays. @1:50, her approach to belting still has that unrefined feel to it that I think has been a pretty consistent issue with her, but again, it's still a cleaner effort than most A-AA. 

Kei's putting in more effort in the Eb4 - Bb3ish range than most sopranos would, you'd think she'd be able to sound fuller as she goes down but it just kinda disappears below that lmao. @1:30, the audio is not really polished well but you can hear there's some projection going onto those A4s. @1:55, that issue with handling belts again. She kinda pushes unnecessarily and loses the focus of the sound, there's a bit of a cry-like quality. If it wasn't for these obvious quirks of hers, she' might just be teetering AA imo, but they're pretty fundamental issues as far as belting goes.

[ZRH23]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:29 AM, Tsukimono said:

Kelly Clarkson vs Ailee, who's better? Battle of two vocal queens 

Kelly has an edge in the mixed register but I wouldn't say Ailee falls behind that much. Kelly has got a way less distorted sound C5 - F5ish but Ailee still got quite some strength up to E5/F5. Ailee's notes below C5 is great ofc but Kelly's not slacking either so overall Kelly just has a more reliable belting range.

But the other aspects, I guess Ailee is the more developed vocalist. Her head voice is considerably better coordinated than Kelly's. 

On 7/2/2022 at 1:39 AM, Renner said:

 

Yeah she needs to do a concert ASAP. I think at times though she's not only putting a lid over it but also... I hope I make sense lol on certain instances basically she already has the development so sometimes she just kinda wings it instead of a more controlled sound? what I mean when she's cleaner and attempts to be more focused is like this recent C#5 clip 1:06.

While Jessica is mentioned, I'd wanna ask Mid-Range wise does she probably have one of the most underwhelming ones in A-AA..? but I'm not quite familiar with all the girls in that tier aside from the ones usually mentioned. I recall BoA might be worse but I'm not familiar with her.

Good thing she can still belt around B4's like that 1:25 cause she doesn't really sound that outstanding throughout the performance.

0:15 onwards I think say NN can still manage better around those phrasings. Which comes to my question, how far can an advantage in belting usually take you when you have issues with your mid-range? and overall would a stronger mid-range take precedence (is that the right word lol)? I'd like to mention though I think Jessica sounds pretty nice and solid in this clip since I don't hear much talk about it;

0:33

Also which sustained instance would you say is Ning Ning's best attempt at a stronger chest engagement? Damn I asked a lot I'm so sorry lol

I don't know if I'm hearing anything different bout that timestamp for Taeyeon but yeah, she definitely does have the development for it. She just doesn't go all out placement-wise. We could only guess as to why exactly, it could be that she's more comfortable that way since being nasal is less work on the cords, or maybe she just thinks that there's no need for volume and projection for these live performances. Taeyeon still does have some nasal habits even in recording sessions but I'd wager she has control over 90% of the time. 

Yeah, Jessica's midrange is probably the most underwhelming one in her category. BoA's is still better imo, she's got that stronger sense of support throughout even if her tonality isn't the fullest. Jessica's issue lies with the strength of her support on top of other stuff. Tbh, I'd say the high Averages generally has better support in their midrange compared to Jessica in most occasions. 

Sometimes it's for a lack of trying, but the fundamental problems does exist even in her best moments so. What Jessica does well is those moments when she suddenly pulls off some decently placed notes A4 - C5, which aren't just flukes. That Dangerous Woman cover was one of the better moments for Jessica yeah.

As for your question for how far does the advantage go, it depends on both aspects tbh. When we mention midrange, it usually just means the connection to support throughout their normal range before the belts (i.e. Bb3 - Bb4) and that's where the majority of song verses take place. For most vocalists past Above Average, they have an already acceptable development in that midrange. By extension, the strength of their support and coordination would also show in their belts. Of course, there are plenty of cases where one vocalist has a full, grounded midrange but less proficient with belts, while another vocalist is lacking a bit of that fullness but soar in their belts. It depends on how much of each they lack.

Taeyeon's lack of fullness in her midrange in comparison to Wendy is less of a disadvantage compared fo Wendy's inability to even land open notes. Hyolyn has better moments Eb5 - F5 compared to Uji, but Uji in comparison sounds fuller and stronger in support below that so that's a bigger plus imo.

Up until A-AA, I'd say the midrange takes precedence simply because if they don't have a strong enough midrange, they'll end up being messy in a very simple range. But for rare cases like Minzy where she mostly just sticks to that range and has struggles beyond that (which we still consider relatively easy for a soprano) then that's another conclusion. It's all pretty nuanced case by case. 

Ningning's best attempt at chest engagement? Probably in the Dreams Come True recording or that Chinese song of hers. Maybe the live Black Mama ones but I prefer the others first. 

[ZRH23]

55 minutes ago, Messica said:

When Jessica uses that 'signature' tone at 0:47, its just her style that she adopts and stubbornly sticks to as a habit, when she is capable of producing a fuller sound. However from 2:15 and 2:34 she does stay light but still keeping quite supported but i think thats why people will place her at the bottom of the A-AA area when shes the most stylistic where everyone else are more technical leaning in their approach throughout their singing and artistry

that run and C5 at 3:20 was supported. quick run as well. id say she had an edge in agility over seohyun while seohyun had the edge of her head voice. 3:28 supported C5. 3:42 supported C#5 into a nicely placed sustained C5, the  chord engagement was pretty decent, im not sure has produced sustained C5s to that quality (someone correct me, im not too familiar with all of her content). 3:45-3:57 supported C5s, nicely placed and supported Bb4s and G#4s. Id say all the A-AA female vocalists mid range belts good enough to be low AA but its just that their support development slightly lacks in terms of their tone throughout and Jessica isnt an exception

I don't buy her being stylistic in her midrange. She simply never really showed the strong, grounded, fuller sound throughout her range even at her best. Jessica does decent on isolated notes when she makes an effort but otherwise, nothing notable about her coordination. Those isolated notes are the main reason she's in A-AA. But I digress. 

Out of all the notes you timestamped, I think only @3:42 was interesting enough. C#5 was way too brief btw it's hardly present enough for support, but the C5 sounds nice. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since it's a reality show and there's bound to be effects, but yeah, it's one of her better ones I've heard so far. Other A-AAs have shown this level too, just not consistently. 

37 minutes ago, Messica said:

Jessica does better than Minzy in belts and her support is more developed

Ben, i dont think Jessica is above Ben, I even think Ben is above seunghee and kei. Shes either same as Sejong or somewhere there in the low AA tier. However id say Jessica has better chest voice, better lower range and just better chest engagement in general, but Ben's mix is more developed, stronger than Jessica's and she is better above B4/C5. The similarity is that theyre both quite light,  have C5/C#5 and do not sing in head voice.

Her support isn't more well developed than Minzy's, at least not up to Bb4. Her advantage in belts, whereas Minzy sings like a limited mezzo, is what puts her apart. 

You missed the memo on Ben, she's regressed quite a bit. 

[ZRH23]

7 hours ago, NoelVys said:

Does this include Tiffany and Winter? Or is it just Somin Seulgi and Suhyun. (does Dawon count as a high A? I'm assuming she's more mid-high) 

Asking for curiosity's sake and mental benchmarking on where the lines of development and support quality  between mid As up to low A-AAs stand. They seem obvious but I'd like to see if there's more nuance to it that I initially perceived based on your answer. 

Dawon currently is too soft even in her midrange to be considered a high A so nope. 

Where the lines of development stand? I can't give an exact thing cuz it all depends by ear to be honest. But usually, the level of support between Average vocalists are pretty discernable. The ones with a more developed midrange tends to have way less pitch issues (unless not focused), tonality wouldn't be a problem (they can still sound pretty full and strong even if nasal) and generally speaking, they just tend to sound consistently solid in their singing. It's just in their cords now. They don't need to put in extra effort to maintain a good sound as they sing, they just sing and the muscles are working accordingly. This  sense of support is present regardless of the coordination, Suhyun sings pretty light and while she can change it up to be fuller to a certain extent, even randomly she wouldn't have any problems with tonality. 

Low A-AAs usually get some sort of pass when one aspect of their technique is just better developed than we'd expect from an A, even though they'll have some fundamental problems themselves. Jessica's Bb4 - C#5ish range is more developed than the rest of Averages. But the problem is, she does well on mostly isolated notes. If she were to sing Bb3 - Bb4 alone without any sort of belt notes, she'd probably just sound Mid Average at best. And since she does utilitise those belts kinda often, we'd have to take it into consideration as a good plus point for her yknow.

It all depends on what the vocalist is capable of and how often they use it to success is also important. If I were to break it down to basic requirements I'd put as: 

Low A-AA : Major issues with the fundamentals, either the development of support as a whole (Jessica) or handling the simple soprano range (Minzy and Ben)

Mid A-AA: Decent enough with both the fundamentals (I'm simplifying) but has some major habits that brings along tension kinda frequently (Seunghee and BoA)

High A-AA: A good foundation on the fundamentals but with some quirks that hinder clean development. 

Of course, it's a bit more nuanced than that and these don't even accurately describe some cases but yknow that's the basic gist of it.

[ZRH23]

4 hours ago, DoraemoNobita said:

Hey @ZRH23

There's a viral song in Indonesia called Tak Ingin Usai. The climax has E5 and F5 (starting from "Ku menanti kau tuk kembali"), the last chorus also has a couple of C5-Eb5. Among these covers, who do you think sings that part the best? Is there any support?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

0:18-1:19 (the hijab and grey top girl)

 

 

Everyone had some sense of support, some more than others, but so far I haven't anyone completely shallow. That being said, nobody there could handle the higher passage of the song well(at least not with support). The second one had the most belty ish sound to it and was bolder, the fourth one was the more controlled kinda mixy sound to it. You take your pick lmao. 

1 hour ago, Messica said:

If Jessica's Bb3-Bb4 is mid average at best, i dont think having a better Bb4-C#5 is enough to make someone low A-AA, but rather high average. 

Why not though? That's a legitimate advantage that even I take note of for Jessica. She has had moments throughout her career where those isolated notes were better than what Averages could do, it's why I think she's at the level we place her at. 

1 hour ago, Messica said:

a Low A-AA would have to have that range to be as good as high average because even mid range a lot of the mid-average girls have more issues than NNSeoSic in that range, even Tiffany. Maybe she has issues like maybe vowel placement and nasality, but its better having that than say throat tension, jaw or tongue tension while being non-nasal. Physical vocal Development wise, I find it hard to believe someone can belt Bb4-C#5 and have a lower/chest register like you're low AA but sing mid range like mid average. The gap cant be that big. 

Firstly, I don't think anyone had said that Jessica's chest register + belts are that of a low AA . I mean, I don't know how much the blog's analysis had hyped her up back then, but I also remember them mentioning on how her chest register was the most developed amongst SNSD or just one of the better ones in Kpop in general, and we know that's exaggerated so.. 

4 hours ago, Messica said:

im not sure whether this clip is a good example. Because im hearing Sunny level support. Suhyun's support at the end of each line isnt controlled that well and she gets into a shaky vibrato. Like i loathe Jessica singing because its spring because it shows when her support isnt at its best, but rather its worst. But even jessica does better throughout that suhyun singing fate in this video. Shes more grounded even through shes using her girly airy approach. On another note i didnt think she would be supporting G3s this easily at 0:30, 0:34, 0:37.

 

Looking aside on how you can't discern Suhyun's midrange with that of a similar level from Sunny's, that video of Jessica is also way more underwhelming. 

@0:25, @0:30, @1:05, those are some of the moments where she had very obvious pitch problems in a very easy range. Even Tiffany has better pitch nowadays and that's largely contributed to how she's got a stronger midrange. Midrange pretty much is just chest register btw, there's hardly any mixing really involved in that area. Jessica's chest register and midrange are simply not AA worthy, in a simple song like the one you linked, it's just a mid Average at most. Just the presence of a vibrato isn't a sure indicator of strong support. If by that logic then Haeri is just swimming with Averages by now. 

Also, I'm not sure if I'd even give those G3s a pass. The support is hardly there, it's just ease on most of them.

 

You don't hear Tiffany having any major pitch issues in a simple song. And obviously, Tiffany is still messy with her issues, but as far as the basic stuff goes, she's doing well and that's enough for her.

Jessica's belts also are not Low AA standards, I've told you this before as well. Isolated belts cannot simply AA standard by themselves. 

 

@7:11, this is what we should expect of a low AA. Jessica has never shown anywhere near this level of consistent strength through her lines. She might be able to pull off one belt with decent openness (with some tonality problems still), but the next line is back to being weaker in strength. 

Jessica may not have any obvious issues with throat, tongue and jaw tension but considering she's lacking the development in the basic stuff in singing which is full bodied support, that's more concerning. 

1 hour ago, Messica said:

Physical vocal Development wise, I find it hard to believe someone can belt Bb4-C#5 and have a lower/chest register like you're low AA but sing mid range like mid average. The gap cant be that big. I know exercise sports development cant be exactly used to same way but You cant bench press 100kgs clean but be slightly shaky at 60kgs because your muscular development unless its intentional or stylistic.

I know you guys love using the gym/bench press analogy but if it's limiting the scope in which you can understand the nuances, then it's not working. Your voice and your cords can work in a lot of ways, and a lot of cases don't stick by one set of rules. The bench press analogy doesn't work in this case because the voice because there's a lot more factors in play that wouldn't be possibly in a hypothetical gym lmao. 

Jessica's approach, which is light, bright and has a lot of ease, makes it easier for her to reach Bb4 - D5 without much effort. On top of that, she is able to put some amount of effort into it, she can do some stuff right like opening up the vowels a bit more or placing the notes better. Notice how those things are not directly related to her cords anyway? The reason why even when she does things right and adds on a bit more of a chestiness to it, it still doesn't even sound like a low AA is because her cords were never that strong in the first place. That's why even back during debut times, there was such a gap between her and Taeyeon's belts.

Jessica has nice habits in her belting range but lacks the fundamentals to make it sound impressive that's why she's been the way she is for well over a decade now. Understandably, she can't bring all those habits down into her midrange constantly so it doesn't solve her main problem. That's why there's such a disparity in her singing within 5 seconds even. Without the good habits that she can instill in her belts, she'd really just be around Sunny or just a bit better. 

[ZRH23]

4 hours ago, NoelVys said:

 

That's interesting, does "the support quality being mid-A" apply to Seohyun as well? Based on vague memory, I think she can handle Bb3 - Bb4 better than the mid-As can, but do correct me if I'm wrong. I do remember her and Jess seem to have similarly floppy midranges, but Seohyun seems to be edging her there. 

I'd have to disagree there, my hearing might not be the most developed but Suhyun's sounds smoother and fuller, even with the light coordination similar to Sunny. I'd think that "shakiness" and "isn't controlled" nature of the end of the line seems more on the lines of stylistic choices than lack of development. 

Seohyun has a relatively better midrange yeah but her main problem is that she goes way too soft even around Bb4 - C5. But generally, she doesn't have problems with support or maintaining good enough tonality. 

[ZRH23]

5 hours ago, Messica said:

but then again even some AA vocalists have more pitch issues that others. im hearing better fundamentals in that video that suhyun, rather that video from suhyun was more mid range. Like yes, the major reason why i dont like it when she sings this song, is because her support is lazy when she performs the song, but even in her laziness, her fundamentals of breathing, connection, diction and mix control. Those time stamps, im not really hearing her going off key. but you need decent understanding utilizing fundamentals to support above decently above Bb4 particularly when she is just as consistent as those higher than above her, and slightly more consistent C5/C#5.

Okay so say her support is mid average at best in her mid range. id only put her even in the AAA category if she somewhat had an edge over the mid-AAA girls at the A4-C#5 range given the precedence support throughout has in the rating. Unless you are making out her support to be weaker than it really is.

Which AAs has that kind of pitch issues? The only one that has some noticeable pitch issue from time to time would be Sunye and it's not as frequent or severe. If you can't even hear the pitch issues in the Jessica performance, then I guess that's that then. We'll just digress from the conversation. 

3 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

what do everyone think of giselle being more high in rank than karina ?

1 hour ago, rere9991 said:

This youtuber is just….. yea I have a lot to say about them, but keeping it about this video the purple kiss girls are way too high (like how is swan closer to average when she deals with shallowness & serious tongue tension?! Karina is the closest to average tier that is if she isn’t low average now arguably), and suddenly Giselle over Karina? I understand she recently showed improved and a lot better material but she still gets shallow, Karina is not shallow at all except couple times during fan calls which I don’t consider serious singing material anyways just her messing around. 

It's not that much of a controversy tbh. Karina has been given way more standout lines and generally has a bolder approach that's suitable for the B4ish lines she always does, but beyond that she's still lacking the real grasp at support most of the time unless she focuses good. 

On the flipside, Giselle is more stuck and less bold but generally has a better sense of support in most occasions. That's also the difference tbh: Karina might be messing around in fancalls and not singing seriously so she sounds shallow, but Giselle sounds more grounded when in the exact same setting anyway. 

The gap really isn't a lot and it's arguable but basically, Giselle so far sounds like she's got a better understanding of support than Karina, but Karina has the bolder sound and only does decent enough in the right setting. Personally, I don't really care enough bout how they rank with each other lmao.

Edited July 4, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

Just to drop another bomb for discussion here lmao. I was just going through that vocal ranking video and realised that one person is ranked a bit too low for how she sounded. 

@2:15, there's some obvious difference compared to the ones before and after her lol. 

So I listened a bit more and she's not bad tbh. I do apologise if anyone has shown me the videos before and I either didn't see it or thought differently. 

@2:05, yeah, this isn't just some shallow singing, it's mostly clean support in this area. 

A whole video in which I haven't heard fully yet and I'm just skipping through. She's got pitch issues like in this clip @0:20, that may be to some airflow problem or she just fumbled through on the pitch sometimes, i haven't heard enough yet. @10:47, she's still singing cleanly on random radio acapellas. There's a tiny bit of shallowness, as in her voice kinda drops a bit of support on the ends of some phrases and goes a bit soft the higher she goes, but this mostly has acceptable support ngl. It might be better if she went a bit bolder.

So far through these clips where she's singing in her midrange, I haven't heard much issues tbh. i might listen more but it's enough for me to know  Yves is (at least) closer to Average than most of the 4th Gen W to A I've heard so far.  

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, galhadineas said:

 

I don't think she's too soft in her mid range. I see no reason for not being high A, she has a pretty opened sound in her mid range

 

this whole perfomance she doesn't sound  soft 

 

and there's also this one  @ 1:51 there's an F4 and you can clearly here the difference in her approach in this note compared to the rest of the song

 

0:41 just compare her to Yeonjung same line 0:27

there's also a supported and opened Bb4

 

supported G#3  @ 1:31

supported A4 @  2:50

her overall support is more opened than some of the low A-AA girls

I said currently... As of now, Dawon doesn't put in that kinda chesty ish, belty effort into her notes anymore, she's gone softer with her coordination since 2018 or so. Being decent at F4s isn't enough for me to think that she still retained all of her techniques until now unfortunately. She's still mid-high even with her regression so to speak.

[ZRH23]

11 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

what about soeun weekly ? how do she compare to karina,giselle, and yves ?

Hmmm that's where it gets a bit tricky. See, there's still not enough materials for Karina and Giselle tbh but there's a lot of that for Soeun. Soeun isn't completely shallow, but I haven't heard her actually have a clean, grounded sound to her either. It's kinda halfway there. I've heard more grounded moments from Giselle but it's not like she has done much. 

Yves has shown cleaner support for sure. But for Karina and Giselle, I haven't even heard them sing proper songs so.. Chances are, the three of them are around the same. More or less. 

11 hours ago, DoraemoNobita said:

Thanks! So, no one supports the 5th octave, or just the E5 and F5?

I have no clear fav, but if I have to choose: The 2nd one (technically) and the 1st one (vocal color/delivery).

 

Nothing in the 5th octave caught my attention ngl so I guess the former . 

7 hours ago, iyrsedim said:

i've seen her mentioned alot recently, so can someone give me the rundown on sunny? 

You can find the more lengthy discussions further back in the thread but basically, she's an example of a vocalist with very light coordination but mediocre chest development or foundation in her support. That results in her sounding very floaty throughout her singing and lacking fullness in tone. It's what causes her pitch problems too. 

6 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

Is it fair to say that Solar has G#3 consistently? @ZRH23

 

I don't remember hearing a lot, I don't keep up with her

[ZRH23]

14 minutes ago, Renner said:

I think so far this song showcases all of the girls vocals the most. Absolutely loving Winter's mid-range this time around! she sounds pretty solid throughout and the Bb4 mid-belt 3:00 is quite nice. Ning Ning... sounds pretty light throughout, the Bb4's are all easy for her but her vowels are more narrower than even KariSelle lmao I'm hoping she'll put more effort LIVE cause her Bb4's are usually pretty nice. Nice G#3's(?) from NN in the verses and I think Winter didn't do bad as well on those. But yeah Karina's doing fine on the Bb4's and Giselle as well finally she gets a bit of a show-offy note lol 2:35. Sustained B4 from Karina at the end 3:58 I'd say it carried support. NN has the most development but the other girls are putting more effort so I'm paying them more attention lol.

Please correct me if I got some notes wrong cuz I think I did.

The song is very very NCT 127 lmao. Not complaining though, I think they fit it. 

As usual, all of them sound nice in the actual track, nobody's shallow. I do think this track showcases each one of them more so that's really nice. 

I wouldn't say Ningning was being too light in this track, at least not midrange wise. It's pretty obvious that hers is the fullest and the Bb4s (although more presence would be nice) are really just easy for her. I'm not hearing any particular impressive/new belts but if she does well enough G3/G#3 - Bb4/B4 midrange wise then at least that's good enough so she doesn't sound jarring. Her lows are nice though (as usual in the studio tracks). 

Karina's doing well but the effects are something to take note of. These SM style songs can go through quite some polishing actually (as seen in NCT and Red Velvet songs) but yeah. Both her and Giselle don't sound quite as raw here imo.. Hopefully there's some lives for this. It'll be interesting to see if they can actually pull off those Bb4s. 

I'm also interested in seeing how Winter does too. She might put in more effort at sounding fuller in this. 

Overall though the main advantage that Aespa has is as a whole, at least in recordings, they all sound pretty solid. 

[ZRH23]

5 hours ago, RATY said:

I'd love to hear analysis from different perspectives, but what I hear in the clip has nothing to do with opera or classical

I personally didn't have any issues with that clip other than she said Ningning was a light lyric mezzo-soprano,even though her voice wasn't fully grown, I didn't hear anything that thought she would grow up to be a mezzo-soprano

 

 

I found something pretty good.

The woman in the clip is Sunmi Jo is a soprano opera singer, she was nominated for a Grammy Award and won the Grammy Award for Best Opera Recording in 1993.

In the previous conversation Seungyoon told her he was a baritone and he sang @0.11 @0.16 Sunmi Jo told him this is not a baritone and more like a tenor.  

Sunmi Jo probably felt that what Seungyoon did was not something a baritone would normally do it ,coz chest coordination takes a lot of effort to do on that note.

 

 

 

Thing is I think we've seen plenty of cases of professional singers (whether they are good vocalists or not also comes into question) with years of experience but not really have much knowledge on the technique works outside of their own voices. They also probably wouldn't know how to properly convey the information and train others as well. Hell, some don't even really know how they themselves got to that point in the first place . For all I care, JYP would be promoting the fact that he's an artist with decades of experience just to prove that he's the pinnacle of vocal knowledge .

On the flip side, there's also trainers with less impressive vocals (like I'm talking just around Average) but with actual understanding and passion for vocal pedagogy, who also can end up training students to far beyond their own level. Your experience in the field don't necessarily mean you can objectively judge others, at least not on purely technical terms. 

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, wintersparkIes said:

i don't mean to sound rude at all, but why is wendy considered one of the few kpop idols with good agility i don't think i've heard a good vocal runs or riff from her live. she sounds good in the studio but not live like the rbb run at the end it's never good live 

It's alright, I wouldn't consider her as someone with good agility either. All those agility rankings of K-pop idols you've seen here before are all subject to relative comparison. Wendy is better at runs than most of the kpop gurlies but it doesn't mean she's necessarily good at it, the others are just subpar. That's why I rarely include agility as a point of consideration when analysing kpop idols. 

[ZRH23]

21 hours ago, Karinas said:

Does anyone know how Seonho (ONEUS), Jongho (Ateez), Woobin and Chan (ACE) actually measure up against each other? Every time I see a vocal ranking usually they’re up there but the rankings are always a bit different lol

20 hours ago, himi said:

Woobin is the best out of the bunch. Jongho and Chan are a bit tricky for me. Both have F#4/G4 ish. Personally, I'd give Chan the edge for having a cleaner approach, less tension, messy moments and also a more developed lows. Though iirc Jongho at his best might have fuller and more open belts than Chan does so idk how that counts lol. I'd put Seoho last. The others have stronger coordination in their mix in comparison to Seoho who can be quite light in his approach. 

 

But do correct me if I'm wrong if anyone is more familiar with Jongho/Seoho 

I might wanna hear more to make a better comparison between these people, mainly Jongho and Woobin. I agree that Seoho is probably the lowest one, as he's the one with the lightest coordination. He's bright but if he doesn't try as much, he'll sound quite weaker.

Woobin also has pretty light coordination actually, or rather, he's very soft in his approach but his support/chest development is more present in general. The softness and projecting through the nose though makes him quite floppy. There's a couple of moments this year too where he goes a bit more solid, and he can sound relatively fine around G4 ish but I haven't heard him actually singing with a full, grounded tone in a while. It's a bit of a shame cuz he showed potential around his debut era (I expected him to be high-Average ish back then) but his bad habits makes him more underwhelming. He can be quite nasal and pitchy cuz of his approach. 

@2:30, he's still going a bit soft and slightly into his nose with this G4 but on the average, he has less issues with it than the other Averages. But his coordination is what helps tbh, it's kinda light. There's also the problem that he hardly performs enough. His group doesn't seem to have a lot of opportunities. 

@4:50, doesn't really look live but can't be picky here. Anyways, that's cleaner than what Jongho can mix in the same area, and he's not being too soft there too. There's not much to go on tbh. I heard that Woobin has some nicer moments in their B-sides but not sure if I'm interested enough to try and search for em lol.

Meanwhile, Jongho seems to have different kinds of tension F#4 - G#4 range but a more solid midrange where he doesn't just sound light and floppy. He sounds better in solo performances and within a reasonable range where he doesn't try to be a soprano, he's more clean, controlled basically. He still has those issues of throatiness and weird placement, but for the most part, he can do well enough up to F#4 before going messy. 

@0:16 and @0:25, yeah, definitely not there yet for G4/G#4, and sometimes it's not even the same issue for these notes, he just gets a lot of tension from it. The pushing from the throat or just being stuck into the nose there. But below that, his midrange isn't soft and he mainly goes for a more controlled feel. @0:42, usually High Averages should be able to handle phrased notes like these at least with a way cleaner sound (also that run though...). @1:10, still some underlying roughness in the F#4 imo, but at least it's not soft and the support is still fine. @1:24, one of his rare cleaner G4. @1:47, not a fan of the G4 but I like the F#4 better, he does have some attempt at shaping his vowels so that helps. @2:15, yeah I wouldn't give him G4, he thins out way too much and there's almost always some tension there. @2:23, see how this sounds like a different issue from the other G4s? Lol, he's going very thin and whiny here. The F#4s are better with the vibrato and the 'oh' vowel shaping. It's a shame really cuz he's probably the most ballad oriented 4th Gen male vocalist so far but he's just not developed enough. The others at least are not really into these ballad songs and more into trendy, indie Western songs so i don't expect a lot from them. @2:50, within his midrange, he sounds better than Woobin and Chan because of his preference and aptitude for these ballad songs, he doesn't have as much quirks down there and just sound smoother and more controlled. It goes awry once he starts really belting though lmao. @4:05, as pushed as this G#4 is, we still haven't heard any of the others actually try do this kind of belt either. His head voice isn't bad too. 

 

This also an example of what I'm talking about. Jongho's much more inclined to the Korean ballads, and from that, I think he generally does better at keeping a good airflow and grounded midrange, singing the long phrases and just being more controlled. @1:26 and onwards, F#4s aren't stuck. @2:00, he could be a bit cleaner (placement wise) but he sounds good enough up to F#4, but thins out at G#4s. @2:53, I do like his F#4s in this performance. He doesn't sound nearly as messy in this one. From these kinds of performances alone, I'd place him above Woobin tbh. Jongho is still bolder in his midrange. But in truth, they both can be messy and rank differently based on what they show. They're still around Mid-Average though lmao, not exactly standouts.

 

 

On 7/13/2022 at 7:51 PM, nana_moon said:

Hi, I'm curious if Wonhyuk (E'Last) is able to support? @ZRH23 i think i asked about one of the lead vocalists and you said Wonhyuk was closer to support out of the members?

Not sure if he sounds any different than before, but no, there doesn't seem to be any solid support from him. He sounds like Haechan.

 

 

On 7/13/2022 at 9:49 AM, wintersparkIes said:

is this B4 supported at 3:50

I'd give it a pass.

On 7/13/2022 at 6:46 AM, Lovelinuz said:

How is Lee Yejoon's attempt at the F5?

 

There's that high-larynx thingy and it's more towards bright and heady. 

On 7/11/2022 at 10:35 PM, Devoux3817 said:

what do ning ning have over monday ? @ZRH23

Just less messy airflow in general. Not much aside from that. 

On 7/11/2022 at 10:57 PM, kingjiho said:

a bit random but i've seen discussion about agility. how does someone like lee hi compared to taeyeon, wendy etc. in terms of agility

I actually don't remember a lot from Lee Hi's agility... If i recall correctly, she's not bad but I just can't think of any examples cuz I haven't heard enough.

On 7/9/2022 at 12:26 AM, Tinastory16 said:

So it's a future alleged rapper who will enter NCT or SMNBG. For the moment it's the only one who has some predebut materials.

I think there are some attempts of support in his singing, but maybe I'm wrong.

Any thoughts ? @himi@BAZISSINO@ZRH23

He's breathing deeper I think, and is going for a way more naturally fuller chest sound compared to the bright, nasal sound that you'd hear Dreamies do but aisde from that, he doesn't really support. Shallow might not be best word to use (well, he is shallow to a certain extent) but it's more like his cords just aren't worked out enough for that supported sound, and he probably can only maintain this stronger fuller tone in a very limited range. There's attempts at supporting (cuz he's breathing alright) but support is more than just that so. 

On 7/9/2022 at 8:30 PM, jaedimps said:

I wonder about the girl that is singing with Jaehyun... can she support? I believe she is also a singer that's why I'm asking
the highlight of the song 3:02

She reminds me of Jo Yuri, in tone and also seems to be similar in technique. Yeah, she can support.

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, himi said:

So I was listening to Jinho and I didn't know Pentagon had another vocalist that can support. I thought everybody aside from Jinho and Hui are shallow lol but Yeo One sounds like he has something going on

 

The verse was less impressive with the light approach and he was a bit into the nose. 1:13 E4 carried support but he was kinda tensing up here. He put more effort starting from 1:29 though. 1:41 Some pushing from the throat on the adlibs so everything above F#4 is a no I guess lol. 2:06 there's def some support going on in his mid range. It's less refined than the average guys but better than what I heard from most floppy, shallower W-As lol. 2:18 Tight on the F#4 but not bad.

 

Did more digging and this clip was a bit of a surprise. There was more effort in sounding stronger here. He was mostly singing in his mid range but it was smooth throughout. 0:53, 1:06 some Eb3. 1:14 couple of phrased Eb4/E4 throughout. 1:23 quick E4-F#4 followed by Eb4.

 

Idk if he always sound like this but from these clips he doesn't sound that far from Average

Yeah, he does support in his midrange, pretty clearly too. It's way more grounded than the tenors who like to go bright and light. But I'm not too impressed by the quality of his Eb4s in the 2nd video though. There's a lot of sustained Eb4s but he gets a bit thinner and drops a bit of that support, it sounds like his cords arent handling it well basically. And that's not a good sign since Eb4s are pretty low for tenors. His support seems to be full enough E3/Eb3 - D4/Eb4 and that's a narrow range tbh. 

I don't know if it's just trot that makes him go a bit too raw technique wise but if he can only handle that range, that I'm afraid he'd just be in low-midish W to A, since it's such a basic range. I think he'll manage some phrased E4s at least.

If he can maintain that level around F4/F#4ish then he might get bumped up to Average. It's a bit odd of a case, but it does happen here and there when they tend to give themselves the role of 'fake baritone' or whatever that makes them focus on chest voice but not really polished when it comes to mixing (or in this case just approaching the passagio lol). 

Edited July 15, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

7 minutes ago, RATY said:

2.38 Bb3 still shallow

3.02 Eb4  

I don't know the standard of support for an weak/weak to average singer, his breath sounds shallow to me but I don't know what people in here will give him. 

15.22

 

1.47

I don't know Yeo One but from the clip you attached Jungkook still gives a clearer support than Yeo one.

(Off topic) I saw you doing a video mini analysis Nct and saw a comment about Haechan, unfortunately the trailer used in most of Haechan's clips is shallow, I remember he used to show it more clearly.

0.56

2.39

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Usually the work that it takes for these tenors to support properly pass E4 is a bit more than what people expect. E4/F4 is where a tenor would start to feel the intensity basically (well, it's gradual I think) and coordinate properly past that. Personally, I'd put the low and mid of W-S as those who has the fundamentals to support but only purely in their midrange, and they start messing up as they climb  and approach that E4/F4 area.

Jungkook has the basics down, he does support pretty consistently but he goes into his nose and sounds 'shallower' on the E4/F4 threshold and the difference in quality becomes more obvious. And it's pretty common for those around the same category to do so, that Yeo One guy too seems to have the tendency to project into his nose here and there. And in doing so, their cords around that range also aren't developed properly enough. 

[ZRH23]

10 hours ago, nana_moon said:

this question might've been asked before, i was curious about Seungwoo from Victon/X1? I know Seungsik is a safe Average but are the lead vocalists in Victon all shallow land residents? The other Victon lead is Sejun:

I'm also curious how Seungsik was doing in this video:

(he's the red-haired member) thank you!!

Han Seungwoo sounds very much like an W-A or lower, it's mostly shallow even tonality wise. He was alright in the Immortal Songs 2 performance, there was some acceptable support there ngl. I checked that one first and thought he might be a low A but then I heard the others and never mind haha. 

Sejun is also shallow so, no luck there. 

Seungsik is a safe Average yeah, sounds like he's one of the higher ones. Nice chest presence throughout his midrange, slightly whiny/into his nose as he goes around and above F4 but retains enough support on some of those G4s. 

He did the same in the Band performance. Support till F#4/G4ish but pushy for the higher notes. I like some of those runs ngl. Yeah, he sounds like a high Average to me. 

[ZRH23]

8 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

Hyolyn new song, what are the notes at 2:26 and forwad and how she did? 

I think this audio is better

The F5s carry support, I like the first phrased one, the second ones are a bit more pushed but still acceptable. The rest of the phrasings are good too.

5 hours ago, nana_moon said:

ahh, that's a shame. so if Seungwoo were more consistent in his support, he might be a low A? how is he doing here?

oh that's much better than I expected for Seungsik! i keep seeing people say he's high W-A or low A, so I'm glad that he's actually a High A - i wonder if maybe he was worse in the past or something. maybe the musicals he's doing will help him improve fingers crossed. I really like his chest presence.

thank you for the answer!

I mean, anyone who is consistent with support to an extent might be a W-A/ Average. It's just in the IS2 performance he was singing in a limited range and it wasn't bad. He sounds a bit better in this clip, I can hear some support in his midrange but it starts getting a bit thinner around Eb4 already. Yeah, he sounds like a W-A at most. 

I haven't heard much from Seungsik but hopefully that's how he usually does lmao. Definitely not a low A (assuming that's consistent) cuz that's where all the more floppy light tenors go lol.

[ZRH23]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:18 PM, Devoux3817 said:

how did ning ning do here ?

I like this clip. Her midrange definitely feels like it's not just light. Ningning needs a proper singing opportunity that doesn't just involve light head voice all the way through. 

On 7/20/2022 at 10:36 PM, RATY said:

Does anyone follow Little Mix?

What tier are they on?

I'm not familiar with the other girls except Perrie Edwards, but I've heard that the rest of the girls are doing well at least up to Bb4/B4.

I do think Jade is more than just an Average. She can put up some openness in Bb4-C5 notes. 

On 7/22/2022 at 12:09 AM, jaedimps said:

1:07 1:39 (the "dead" part) 1:42 (the "bad" part) are any of those Goeun notes supported? I feel like maybe the third time stamp is supported but the rest are not... Not sure tho so I'm asking for other opinions. Her voice is so lovely wish she could work on her placement she can be quite nasal...

@1:07, these are just around Bb4s. She's supporting, just nasal. The others are meh for the phrased C5 but she's okay on the Bb4. 

On 7/22/2022 at 5:49 AM, Tsukimono said:

How good comparatively is Haseul's head voice? Is it as strong as/comparable to Sunny's? Yuju's? Bada's? Seeing as people claim it's her only developed register with a supposed supported range of F5/F#5

Hmmm, it's a bit complicated to compare directly like this. But Haseul does use some amount of that proper coordination sometimes, usually just in phrases so far I've heard but it sounds more than just light pop head voice. It's still far from actual opera standards obv, but I'd say her head voice alone is more coordinated than all of the above. Directly comparing the two can be wonky tho considering Haseul lacks the foundation everywhere else lol. 

On 7/22/2022 at 2:47 PM, Devoux3817 said:

1:06 supported G3 ?

I wouldn't say so imo. 

2 hours ago, Hi._. said:

New Haewon content - (the quality is not the best lol)
 

 

 

 

Haewon is doing well, particularly in the A3ish - C#5 - Eb5 ish area. She's got some pitch issues when phrasing in the 5th octave, they just fall slightly flat. It's probably due to her coordination being chesty and she lacks a bit of precision with it, but there's no problem as far as support goes. Haewon has real nice fullness in that range and sounds like there's some openness in the Let It Go chorus. The Eb5 also wasnt bad, there's some support being carried. 

Lily though is working that song lol. Nice C#5s and Eb5s, her pitch was more accurate and she was just clean so far I've heard from the karaoke sessions. 

49 minutes ago, Ti Na said:

I saw on Twitter, some Thai people said Lily created C#5 resonance in Let It Go

I kinda doubt 'resonance' so far, the reverb/echo coming from the karaoke room is mainly at fault for that 'round' sound. But it was quite good still, probably Lily's best belt so far. It's still cleaner and stronger than what almost all of the AAs could do, and in a karaoke session no less. The Eb5 was also good. 

13 minutes ago, cth said:

bringing jinni here because she sound less messy here compared to her previous materials

@0:29 only basic mid range throughout but it’s a lot more focused sound from her compared to that bol4 / hush cover 

@1:58 @3:05 phrasing G#4s ~ Bb4, chorus peaks at C#5 

@2:41 @2:56 sullyoon is putting a bit more of effort as well

jiwoo finally sang something that is not the me myself and i redemption lol 

they both did alright upto the phrasing B4 - A4 @0:21 for jiwoo @1:20 kyujin, there’s some A4 through the verses 

honestly haewon seems to have a much better handle of her lower range than lily’s, besides they did nothing different from what they’ve already shown i reckon. 

@1:49 G#4 and Bb4 from haewon; @1:59 goes up to C#5; @2:50 some B4s, then phrases goes C#5 again @3:01

oh almost missed, that Eb5 @1:01 is not bad at all

lily sounds a bit more into her nose honestly but still manages to deliver some of her better C5s @2:42 and i saw some people labeling the sustained C#5 @2:47 as resonant, not sure about resonance but both C/C# must not be too far off it cmiiw. @3:05 not a fan of those Ebs, especially the sustained, that C#5 - C5 @3:10 is pretty though

any thoughts y’all? =D

 

 

 

Crazy In Love: Okay yeah, Jinni does sound nice there. It's a very basic range ofc, but there's definitely support there and it's not shallow in that occasion. I also like Lily's E5/F5 adlib lol.

AIIYL: Jinni sounds alright here too, she's chestier than Sullyoon and Kyujin. She gets more shallow as she goes into the Bb4ish range but below that it's acceptable imo. Sullyoon is more nasal but smoother, Jinni can sound choppy here and there but can be less shallow sometimes. 

Kyujin is definitely cleaner than Jiwoo, less shallow too. It's clear now, there's a bit of a gap between Kyujin, Sullyoon, Jinni and the other two. It does sound like Jinni is the one that supports the best but in a very basic range and I don't she's got control above A4ish. Kyujin and Sullyoon probably sound smoother in that area.

And Lily's Eb5s in Let It Go are supported btw I like them lol. She didn't go flat for the sustained one either which is nice, I've heard a lottt of pitchy covers on this song, even with more advanced vocalists. 

[ZRH23]

17 minutes ago, Slowedtempo said:

Do you think lily can be aa-p with this kinda aprouch 

It's not any different from her usual approach though, she's just quite consistent. Thing is, everyone in AA-P has shown resonance at least in a certain range, with the exception of Jamie. But Jamie has 3 developed registers, two of which is currently more so than Lily (well, the head voice is a possibility). 

So unless Lily shows at least a bit more fullness A4 - C5, and a bit more development in her other registers, I don't think she's up to par yet. But she's not far tbh. 

[ZRH23]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:46 AM, RATY said:

Eb5 sustained sounds like it opened at first but then it closes a bit for me.  At least I don't think it sounds that good.

 

It still carried support just fine imo. If she was landing out open sustained Eb5s, then that's something you'd expect from a P on a lucky day lmao. 

5 hours ago, Nana686 said:

Thoughts ? To my untrained ears they all sound weak maybe the main is W to A (?)also is it just me who hear some similar approach to blackpink jennie on some of their singing ?

4 hours ago, rere9991 said:

Same they sound very stylistic weak to me, maybe some w-a if we're pushing it. I see what you mean with the Jennie approach chesty tight & throaty 

I listened to their songs so far and they're not that bad. I doubt there's anyone who would be impressive vocally but so far, nobody's very shallow anyway. There's some that I think sounds clean so far in their midrange, though I don't know who or what their position is etc. They also don't have any obvious quirks or tension in that range. We'd have to listen to live material to hear if there's any decent support but like I said, they're not really shallow in the recording. W-A is perfectly doable.

I hear some similarity with Jennie with the tone and maybe some diction stuff, but none of them were being chesty, tight or throaty lol. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

27 minutes ago, Devoux3817 said:

jinni sounds so good here

Jinni and Kyujin sounds the cleanest aside from HaeLy, but they also had the least lines lmao. Sullyoon not bad as usual, Bae too. 

That's probably Lily's best E5 yet, pretty good attempt. I can only judge from this studio recording, but she definitely tries to keep the larynx more neutral, and some support is still there. The Eb5 was nice too. I'll be waiting for their comeback or other stuff to see if she can show off more of her head voice 

Haewon has some bright open C#5s there too. 

[ZRH23]

7 hours ago, Lovelinuz said:

Any tips on how to improve on upper belts (tenor)? I am pretty untrained still and right now I can extend my mix range quite high but I am very unstable from the G#4-Bb4 range and I especially have a hard time sustaining in that area (especially so on G#4 and A4). I also tend to sound a lot thinner once I hit the Bb4 range and I want to learn how to add more chest into my mix but whenever I make any attempt at that I find it quite difficult to do so. Does anyone have any exercise/tips to help improve in upper belts?

Well, there are a couple of 'ways', depending on how you wanna sound. But when it comes down to it, it's more of a matter of stretching your cords and learning how to mix properly. I'd advise to build the fundamentals first (cuz you can belt all the way up there but still be unsupported in your simple midrange) however, I feel like the 'easiest' or most conventional way for you to mix high without sounding too bad even when you don't support, is to mix brightly. Very brightly. 

Adding chest would be difficult unless you know how to develop support gradually. Even if you manage to add more chest, it'll just end up sounding very shouty and pushed. Engaging with your chest muscles as you mix is a good way to train, however, I doubt it'll let you mix high for the first couple of weeks so it depends on what you want. If it's mixing high, then go bright. Your placement should be in 'the mask' area (though it's really in the sense of how you direct your voice) and your coordination should feel not chesty but there's some substance to it. I think you can still benefit from most videos on Youtube with 'How to mix/hit high notes' if you're looking to just extend your range.

P.S. G#4 and A4s are plenty high for a tenor anyway. It's the K-pop peeps convincing you that you should belt B4s and C#5s when none of them could even actually handle it properly lol.