Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, KoreaxxLove said:

This thread has really gotten rich. Y'all have spent years hating on me, but it's just so funny how every so often, your language changes to start including the ideas that you said I was so wrong about. How many clowns have y'all put on stuff that you're trying (and failing) to articulate now? It's really a joke and is embarrassing. It's like no one here has any sense of shame or honesty. Don't get me wrong--you're allowed to change your mind (I know I have), and I'm not saying that all of these ideas were mine first. But the point is that you disparaged other users for advocating the general principles you're trying to advocate now. The problem is that you're not using them correctly and don't know what to listen for. 

Case in point: @ZRH23and @BAZISSINO can't even correctly identify classical head voice when an opera instructor is singing, but are also parading around (ZRH23, specifically) like experts in "proper" "chest coordination" in a classical head voice setting. It's ridiculous. Then, y'all (including @ParkHyoLee) have the gall to throw out pop singers, as if to put them in sync with Callas and suggest they're closer than people like Diana Damrau. 

ZRH23, you go on to mention that these older singers seem better because they were able to project over an orchestra without a microphone, and that's suddenly liked by the thread, but the singers I mentioned three years ago who could do this in pop were called "just loud" or "basic" and "not advanced." (By the way, there's no evidence that I'm aware of that Whitney Houston could ever project without a microphone over an orchestra, either in her chest range or in her head voice, and she sometimes even bottomed out in her chest range WITH a microphone). How are you drawing these distinctions? What is proper coordination to you, if sometimes this leads to massive projection and other times it's just whatever Whitney happens to be doing? The logic is all over the place. 

There are several "popera" and pop singers who seem to fit this criteria of advanced coordination and projection better. Are you willing to admit that? Probably not, because you say that Whitney "takes the cake" among even classical singers in the post-Callas era. Ethel Merman sang thousands of Broadway shows without a microphone, all while belting to the back of the house over the orchestra. Kate Smith did the same at a record-breaking stint at the Palace early in her career. Judy Garland was known to finish shows without a microphone at times during her career and performed in Vaudeville without a microphone when she got her start. I know you were referencing Whitney's head voice, but why does the same principle not apply to a well-balanced and coordinated chest range? And I'm not talking about Patti Labelle standing ten feet away from a mic. I'm talking about standing on stage with an orchestra that's playing and singing over it. Are you admitting this is worth considering now? If not, why use it as a standard for any style of singing at all? 

Speaking of this idea that good proper vocal development leads to full singing throughout the HV register, sure. I agree. But why don't you apply this to the chest register? The same is true there! But people like SoHyang are given a pass for having a noticeably deficient lower chest range and belting range. Sure, Damrau seems to bloom at the top of her HV range, but wasn't it THIS THREAD that spent YEARS saying that's where sopranos bloom, while giving people like SoHyang a pass for not being able to sing lower? Is this all just a tacit admission that y'all were wrong the whole time? It sure sounds like it. 

Whitney was without a doubt one of the best pop singers to come about in the microphone era. That's true. But y'all are throwing around terms without regard for what they truly mean and subtly linking her coordination to Callas to aggrandize her skill. Other pop, "popera," and classical singers are closer to this coordination than Whitney ever was! That's annoying enough, but it's all a sudden about face from how y'all have been acting for years and ignores the fact that--by the standards y'all are saying she's great by--there are people who are better, many of whom y'all have decried over the years just because I was the one to mention them. 

How about actually having a conversation and not sidestepping the issue? 

Okay, right, I was hoping you'd get the hint but I'll just spell it out again. 

I have no interest in engaging with a 'conversation' with you. Not because I'm scared of you tearing down my arguments or that I'm not able to stick with my own reasoning, but because it's you and I've been here long enough to also know we're not going to get anywhere with the discussion regardless. It's not that I'm not willing to hear another side of this and I think I'm most definitely correct with my opinion, but if I recall correctly, I've spent quite a long time a few years back discussing with you on another vocalist and things similar to this, and I remember how that turned out. See, I may have learned more in these recent years too, but my opinion on your opinion has not changed (mind you I was a literal child back then and I still don't hear the things you said now), and neither has yours, so I don't see the point.   In the grand interest of saving my time and also not crowding up the thread for what will inevitably be long tangents of personal backtalks with some examples that we'll probably disagree on anyways, I'd rather not engage with you. 

But please, do not equate me with whatever wrongs the previous people in this thread had done to you. I never once clowned you for an argument that you had, nor did I entirely dismiss what you've said on the usual pop artists as well. I have no problem admitting you were right about something that the previous thread members had gotten wrong, like Kyuhyun's nasality (though it was not a problem to the extent you were making it out to be, but I digress, you had a point) or Beyoncé's overaggressive tendencies etc.

But whatever things that you claim I just brush over, I'm not ignoring it because YOU said it; I'm ignoring it because I don't agree but I won't stop you from believing so. Because while I indeed have managed to identify more stuff like ''good chest-coordination' and etc, the thought in itself didn't just randomly appear in my mind. I've always heard that distinction between the artists I've been listening too, but now I can finally put the right words to it. My opinions on your artists however, did not change. And that shouldn't bother you as much it is now. 

I didn't call you out saying your artists are nonsense nor am I bothered if you feel like disagreeing. Maybe I generalised too much on some parts about the newer classical singers, yes, seeing as I haven't heard too many of them. I was more basing off of what I heard from the thread recently, and my opinion on THAT still stands. I'm not 'too proud' to admit that these people are better, I just don't agree with it. I don't think that's too difficult to comprehend. And I don't think it should be difficult for you to understand on why I don't find some people impressive, when you have the same level of disregard to the pop singers that are usually discussed here. 

Speaking of which, I'm also not entirely sure why you even bother to get pressed over this thread and all of its 'inaccuracies' when 90% of the time, the main points of discussion is way past your interests anyway. What's the point of skimming through the thread full of discussions on these random pop vocalists who pales in comparison to your superior vocalists? I mean, you do you, but I don't see how it's not a waste of time for you to preach on this when you know that me and the others disagree. It's not necessarily about you as a person, maybe it was for some older members, and I can't vouch for others but I personally just know that we're on seperate sides of opinions and I don't see any beneficial exchange of information that could potentially happen based on past experiences. I'm not going to say the artists that you highlighted aren't great, because I know you'd vehemently defend for them the same way I would for the vocalists I think are great. I have my opinions on them, and I don't feel like expressing them if you're going to push yours down my throat again . 

I agree that Damrau's head voice is still superior than Whitney's. I never said hers specifically was less strong. I personally don't think that ParkHyoLee was trying to compare that either but they're not inclined to reply to you probably for the same reason too. 

No more examples of arguments will be brought up here for me because like I said, I have no interest in continuing this discussion if the results end up in the same route. In this case, yes, it is because of you lol. Whether or not I am wrong with my opinions should not be a major concern to you. I'm not making a propaganda here of my thoughts, this is a vocal thread on an otherwise dead k-pop website. If you think this will somehow be a major influence in the generation's mindset or whatever, maybe it's a little out of reach. Hell, even if it is, then just do your thing and argue against it. I don't care. Really, I don't. Just continue advocating on what you believe is right, surely you can't be stopped by just a couple of clown reactions when you feel so strongly about it? I'm not even being sarcastic, just do your thing but don't drag me into it when I'm obviously not wanting to get involved with you. Again, not because I'm too proud to challenge my own thoughts, but it's because I've seen around here for a long time, and I know well enough how this turns out. So can't you just accept it? I'm not going to dismiss you like C.Y or Ahmin did, I don't have enough to knowledge to say you're talking nonsense, and I don't think you're completely off point either. But for the majority, I just don't agree and that's that. You can consider your opinions as facts, but don't be pressed if I don't. 

There, I think that's my longest reply to you so far just to explain stuff that I'm pretty sure I've told you before. Stop trying to make it like some sort of personal conquest against a personal vendetta, it's not that deep lol. I disagree and I choose peace and quiet instead. I'm not going to reply to you on this topic anymore (hopefully) and I'm not sidestepping the topic. Or if you really want to, you can think of me that way, up to you, but mainly you know that I'm sidestepping because of our difference in opinion. That's all. 

So please have a nice, peaceful day. If you want to counterargue then fine, I've never discouraged you. But don't go crying out just because nobody chooses to heed. 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, KoreaxxLove said:

As much as I'd love to believe you're just peace-loving and positive-intentioned, we both know that's not true. The issue here is that you're peddling misinformation, and not only that, using standards that contradict what you've said before without any recognition that they're different. To say that your opinion on my opinion hasn't changed--well, that's not entirely true. You may say that you don't think the vocalists that I say are good are any better, fine. But the standards that you're using to evaluate vocalists have shifted, and they've come to largely include criteria that I mentioned. For example, this chest coordination and projection. The problem is that there's no way you can use those standards and not recognize that vocalists like SoHyang are extremely deficient when compared to singers like Kate Smith or Ethel Merman. You can't prop Whitney up for this great coordination while ignoring that many pop and popera vocalists have coordination closer to the "proper" sound. And if you say they don't (and can't/won't even explain why they don't), why should anyone take your opinion seriously? Especially when you already misidentified an obvious classical head voice? I don't mean that as a jab, but I never make a comment that I'm not willing to defend. You're not doing me a favor by responding. We both know what the MO is here, and we know whose opinions are considered correct without question. You can literally say whatever you want and have no serious challenges to what you say and ignore me and have people assume that you're right. Opinions y'all don't know how to counter are just clowned and made to seem ridiculous while the user who said them becomes a pariah. But suddenly, without recognition, those same opinions crop up in what you're saying while you have the audacity to feign benevolence for having to "dignify" and "talk back" to the person you ostracized for having the same opinions you're now using. It's impossible not to see how messed up that is. 

If you would vehemently defend the vocalists you think are great, then defend them. You are sidestepping the issue. I will take your word as to why you won't engage, but you have to realize that you can't just go around throwing out generalizations, making strenuous comparisons, and shifting your standards without people scratching their heads. Or not expect people to actually believe that you mean to make these generalizations. I get that some people will like what you say and clown what I say regardless of what we say, but some people need to realize that they're liking what they used to clown. It's absolutely unreal to me. 

Sidestepping because we have a difference of opinion? So you can only write back when you agree? That's antithetical to what the thread is for, and it's irresponsible when you're the one who helps shape the majority opinion. No, this thread doesn't waste my time because if you look closely, stuff like this happens. I've been here for a decade now. It's obvious I'm here, and I'm not going away. I don't really get engaged much unless it directly affects me. I don't make a habit of trying to say anyone's K-pop rankings are wrong or that they shouldn't use those standards, etc. But this was a long argument about these standards, and as you said, I got largely dismissed (I would add, without good grounds) for them. So imagine my shock that people are using them now. Not only that, you didn't have a problem when this argument was made against me (for example, CY saying that I was judging on proper standards but not judging accurately on them, or even later, that he didn't like me using these standards after I expressed distaste with TiO--though, a fundamental distinction in this case is that I never expressed doubt about their standards, just their attitudes and behavior). If you agree these are the proper standards, fine. That's great. I can even forgive the fact that you're not going out and renouncing everything you said before. But if you agree with the general principles, there's something morally wrong in still treating the person who first strongly advocated these standards in the pop community (at least in this thread)--at the risk of his reputation, no less--as a pariah. 

Ultimately, we don't have to agree, but I think you're reasonable enough to realize this is wrong. And you should at least be willing to discuss these ideas. I was never convinced by CY, and he was never convinced by me. But to act as if our ideas have just existed in a vacuum without influence is wrong. There's an interplay of ideas going on here, and it's in everybody's best interest that they're sorted out in good faith. You've got a new set of standards, and instead of objectively looking at vocalists, you're just trying to shoe-hole old favorites into being better under this new paradigm. That's dishonest if you aren't willing to discuss why you believe that. I'm willing to discuss the individuals I praise in detail against these standards, and I actually have. I even had good conversations with CY about them before everything became personal. I think we could have conversations about it because I don't have anything personally against you. And I'm not suggesting you're intimidated by this discussion. My thought is that you know as well as I do that you don't have to have it, and by ignoring me as a pariah, not only do you get the benefit of the doubt about your argument, you get to paint yourself as morally righteous, too. All of this so that you (and really, your group) can keep your monopoly over the thread. 

Seeing as how this is more peaceful.. 

Okay first off, again, I ask of you not to equate me to the blog members or the previous thread members. I'm definitely not a nice, all-peaceful person in real life, but I don't have any intentions of being manipulative online, in this thread specifically. Don't say it like I've been playing a Mean Girls agenda this whole time, I'm literally just answering here because this is where my interests lies and I'm not looking for any conflict whatsoever online so I'll cut it off before it gets messy. I don't have any motive to act like the White Queen, it's not like I have an entire blog worth of audience or anything, and I don't really care about what people's opinions of me here are. It's not my fault that people assume I'm right, and I don't want to advocate anything of that sort anyway. My actions aren't really what contributes to how you're perceived, I'd say that started from other stuff a long time ago unfortunately. I don't really have any intentions to keep monopoly over this thread, like I said, I'm just here and able to answer most questions because they lie within my interest. Not everything has to be with some sort of higher agenda. You might think I'm trying to be morally righteous, but dude I'm just trying to be undramatic and face minimal conflicts . I know where you've been getting the 'fake niceties' vibes from and like I said... I'm not them. I'm not saying I'm perfect and all about kindness, I'm just saying I have no ulterior motive and no reason to do so here. 

Secondly, we did not REALLY shift our view and contradicted our own criteria. Because it's not OUR criteria lmao, it was the blog's and it's something that remains mostly convenient to be used as a metrics for the usual pop singer so we keep using those terms instead. I personally disagree with a lot of what the blog had heard or categorised, and so you'll see me bringing up some new aspects that the blog didn't mention. I know that you did mention it as well, and like I said, I do agree on a certain extent to which you can see from stuff I've posted. It's not like it's much closer to your idea of standards.  But you were not the only who has brought it up before, CY brought up similar points but only different examples. Over time, I can hear the similar traits in usual contemporary music as well to a reasonable extent from them. These are not 'new' standards, or at least not ones that are suited to yours. Sure, they have more focus on certain things now, but the main idea remains largely the same. Whatever 'renouncing' that needed to be done, you'll see many times before that I've stated how I disagree in hindsight on some of the stuff from the blog or earlier blog posts. Most of the ideas came from C.Ys further explanations, ones that I personally think makes the most sense when it comes to the vocalists I usually discuss. Like it or not, it's mostly not your ideas that contributed to my current understanding now. Even if we use the same words and terms, how we find that impressive and all of the context I believe is of very different opinions. Some stuff just made more sense as time went on. But yes, I do get your point on certain aspects that had been overlooked in some occasions. 

I'm not exactly sure what you want specifically, but if it's acknowledgement for this that you want, then okay. I'm not going to act like I'M the one who discovered these sudden important aspects to vocalists, but I'm sorry if by not mentioning your part I look like I'm taking it as my own idea or such. 

However, like I said, the reason why even through all these new revelations I don't engage with you is because I still don't hear the same things you hear in the vocalists you have mentioned. I doubt going back into that and yet still disagreeing with you would've had a good outcome lmao. I also don't think I'm trying to shoehorn favorites onto an even higher status from these standards. There are plenty of so-called 'excellent' vocalists that I think are not that great now in hindsight, some of which I'm sure YOU'LL disagree with me too. You've made a lot of assumptions about me as well, it's not all the same old pattern. 

I'll take care on the generalisations as I can see that can be harmful on people's perceptions. I'll acknowledge if I did go back and contradict what I've said before. The thing is most of the things you're accusing me of contradicting about the standards and your vocalists, I  don't think I said those statements, those are all mostly from other previous thread members or blog members. I have my own opinions on those vocalists, maybe some of them not as dismissive as the other's but yeah, I doubt it's what you hear as well. I can't change the thread's perception of you and I didn't sully your reputation or whatever, or at least I never intended to, incase my actions lead to that effect anyway. In the end, I'm not opposed to a conversation. I'm just not confident that it will go on favorably for any of us so I'd just rather not. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

32 minutes ago, Ripkaby said:

They probably just haven't updated the rank list. They acknowledge that Hae has more consistent and fuller C#5s than Ningning. It's like how ppl here at first assumed Haewon was at Karina level (if I recall correctly).

People here??? When . At worst we did consider that she might be Average around Seulgi (a judgement made too fast based on one bad Weekly Idol singing) but never that low lmao.

[ZRH23]

36 minutes ago, Sarah Oon said:

 

OST featuring Ningning and Winter. Ningning mid range and lows sound nice and full. Winter sounds the same. Don't think they showed anything new for either. Is Ningning head voice in here supported? I thought it sounded nice.

25 minutes ago, Reckittsia said:

0:25 , 1:10 , 1:13 those are F#3s right ? Why do I feel like she didn't do well on those

2:11 also some 5th octave phrasing from Ningning

The F#3s were a bit airy for my taste but it's not far from what she's usually shown. Wendy and Taeyeon also had their moments of less than impressive F#3/G3s, so I won't NN is definitely not capable or anything, it's not that bad. For some reason I thought the OST would've been longer but in turns out we've already heard the whole thing in the backgrounds anyway . 

Personally, I'd say those phrased Eb5s did carry some support but it's just that her coordination is quite light compared to NMixx girls. But the C#5s are definitely fine at least, I'd like to hear the Eb5s live but it does carry support in studio. Her head voice is fine as well but the same quality as the rest of her range. 

Even though I have an estimate on how Ningning is doing, there's still more stuff I'd like to hear in general. There's so little live material and variations of her performances so. Exactly how she sounds A4 - C#5 is still a bit of a guesswork for me. It's more on the lighter side yeah, but I need to hear if the support might be strong enough for her to be a considered a more solid vocalist. Some things like resonance is a bit of a stretch but more experience can help with other stuff, so we'll just have to wait till SM releases them out of the dungeons again.

[ZRH23]

43 minutes ago, exodus05 said:

@ZRH23 https://www.veed.io/view/7e601724-d897-4d9e-bb3c-ceb0cc1dc735?sharingWidget=true

How am I doing here thank u so much.

Another tenor in the thread I see! You did well, you do support in this range (I think the chorus is around E4-F#4 range mostly). There are some common issues that I can here and there, but mostly I hear some pitchy moments. It will usually solve more naturally as your cords strengthen and you get a better handle at things but you can avoid the bigger pitchy moments by being a bit more familiar with the melody and music so you can pace yourself better. But yeah you did good

[ZRH23]

6 hours ago, Tsukimono said:

How was BoA here? I'm not sure if I heard resonant notes.

@0:43, @1:03, @1:56, @2:15, 3:01

I know she has a lot of issues with nasality but doesn't nasality stop resonance? 

I mean, I wouldn't call it resonance but she can land out relatively open notes with some decent placement. But usually it's still a bit pushed from the throat or a bit small in general. Nasality does hinder resonance but in these cases, she's not nasal on those particular notes, no. The C#5s are more bordering into shouty for her though. 

4 hours ago, Shinki said:

So lets just sum it all

 

Aespa has the better vocal technique as a group for now (as all of them can support); while NMIXX seems to have the better vocalist individually (Lilly).

 

3 hours ago, Ti Na said:

aesapa 4/4 has support, nmixx 6/7 (maybe 7/7)

Lily> Ningning

Haewon > Winter 

Karina > Jinni 

Sullyoon > Giselle

overall i think nmixx is better

I think y'all are underestimating the concept of shallowness in these NMixx girls' singing . I mean, they're not bad and general, yes, there is a presence of support in their singing. But there's some obvious distinction between them properly supporting vs how they are now. None of them has actually managed a really relaxed, fuller, cleaner tone where the support is evidently more present than the rawness/shallowness. Props to them is they do try, and maybe they're on the way (they're all younger as well) but there's a difference imo. 

Meanwhile Karina and Giselle both do have moments where I'd say it's definitely support and it's not shallow. They both can manage generally fuller, cleaner tone with a more grounded sound. It's a bit too unreliable and underdeveloped as a whole for me to consider them Average, and they definitely do have moments where they don't focus enough and end up sounding shallower due to them not taking in the deep breaths needed. 

@0:01, frankly, none of the NMixx leads have managed this kind of clean tone yet. @1:46, even at her soft singing moments, the cords still carry that support actually. I don't think I've heard this kind of development from the other girls. All the fanmeet clips are kinda playing around, none that I would consider full support or anything. But I honestly do think that in a certain range, all she needs to do is just breathe properly and it'll sound way better. NMixx leads though will have a bit of work to do.

I think Karina is a bit more stylistic in how she sings and so therefore can sound a bit more jarring since it might make her less clean compared to Giselle's more straightforward style. But moments like @0:54, are again, cleaner tone and more natural support than what I hear from NMixx.

To conclude, let's just say... NMixx would not sound as good as Aespa did if they sang 'Forever' . There would be far more shallow sound even in midrange. Aespa girls support enough so in that limited G#4ish range, they all sound solid. 

 

57 minutes ago, jaedimps said:

Is there a significant difference between Lia and lets say Sullyoon/Jinni? they are all around the same level right?

Lia is a more reasonable comparison actually. I'd say Sullyoon and Kyujin (Jinni can be a bit less hyped now thanks lmao but yeah she's around the same too) have shown better moments and definitely more attempts. I'm not even sure if Lia is W to A to begin with so. 

But comparing to Nayeon for example, Nayeon/Jeongyeon still have stronger support in their cords even with more quirks. 

11 hours ago, universal girl said:

 

That clip of Jinni proves the point tbh . Karina and Giselle both have done better when put on the spot. But if Jinni focused more it would have been a bit better, there's still a bit of support naturally there as well, it's just less clean. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

4 hours ago, itzyabop said:

Sorry a long time lurker here but i just had to ask. So the top 2 vocalists of nmixx being better (not to mention Lily being on a whole other tier) than the top 1 vocalist of aespa isn’t enough to make them the better vocal group just because the bottom 2 vocalists of aespa are better (but ultimately still around the same level) than the rest of nmixx who support?

 

4 hours ago, Ryujin 0702 said:

I do think Nmixx are better it's like: Lily > Haewon > Ningning > Winter > Karina >= Jinni (they aren't far from each other) > Sullyeon > Kyujin = Giselle > Jiwoo > Bae. And all of Nmixx can support (Jiwoo and Bae are very shallow) 

The whole point of what I said is that comparing them both as a whole ass group is going to be tricky and not resulting as what you'd expect so don't worry too much on the group ranking or whatever lmao. Rankings on the individual vocalists is tricky and argumentative enough, isn't it? There's no reason to want to compare them as a whole when we don't know them so well in the first place. But like I said, if we were to compare the leads of NMixx to Aespa, then Aespa girls have shown better moments. 

[ZRH23]

58 minutes ago, Shourie said:

More perfs from that day.

 

2 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

haewon and lily cover survivor

I swear these girls sing every chance they get lmao. I don't think I've seen a group so excited for it . They didn't do anything extra this time around, Haewon and Lily sound alright as always, I don't hear anything new this time. They both show clean support in Bb4 - C5 ish range 

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, grid said:

do you guys familiar with lim young woong? how good is he technically?

He's around mid/mid-high AA. Strong chest voice and midrange, the sound around G4/G#4 isn't that clean and developed like some high AAs though he can pull off some moments. He's got some common issues too here and there like lack of round vowels, going a bit into his nose, etc.

[ZRH23]

47 minutes ago, RATY said:

Thank you , I agree that she sometimes has rough moments in her lows range and it still seems to lack full support and I don't follow her much, I see people online believing that she has Eb5/E5  but I'm not sure about it.

She still does have Eb5/E5, it's just not completely solid yet. Meaning she can still have some inconsistencies D5-E5. It's normal since the improvement is relatively new and unless she really goes all out in that range, the strength will be like that. Her D5/Eb5s are not as strong as OJH or Yeonji's imo. 

4 hours ago, grid said:

how about his lows? i saw someone said that he has pretty nice low

Yeah that's also what I meant by nice chest voice. I forgot how low he can support but it's nice and full in the 3rd octave. 

5 hours ago, Tsukimono said:

What's stopping Solji from becoming AA-P? Also, is her supported range now G3/G#3-C#5(D5) instead of G3/G#3-C5/C#5? Is she consistent enough on the C#5? 

 

Her tendency to sing in the 5th octave with some degree of tension is probably the main thing, along with her lack of open vowels. Her habit of pushing and some slight tightening in the throat is still prominent and her best moments aren't necessarily free of that either. 

Not sure about the C5/C#5 thing. I've heard some not so pretty C#5s from her even in recent years but for the most part, they're strong. I guess C#5 only is okay, but not that D5. 

13 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

do this mean giselle is weak to average ? is she close to nayeon level ?

Most probably. Wait until she sings consistently. Not sure what you count as Nayeon level, can't comment on that yet cuz she sings way too little. 

[ZRH23]

On 5/24/2022 at 3:32 PM, BabyKBK said:

@ZRH23 

So I did some research and Yuqi really sounds like a heavier/lower soprano who is a bit less bright and not a mezzo:

1:28 C4 placement is closer to soprano 

2:14 F4 and F#4s they are way closer to Solji (quite bright-style of singing heavier soprano) compared to Ali 

 

1:16 C4s

2:34 F#4

 

0:22 Pulling chest up to B4 more common for an untrained soprano 

 

I do hear her being more of a soprano and not necessarily a light one like most idols. But I don't think she has the weight like Eunji/Solji either. Somewhere in between. 

22 hours ago, NoelVys said:

Hey there, so I was already wondering this a few months ago, but was reminded by a comment on yt. How good of a singer is Seth MacFarlane? You know, that guy who makes adult-humor shows like Family Guy and American Dad.

Is the guy a baritone? Or is he a tenor who likes to sing baritone? guy has a lot of Frank Sinatra performances.

Sorry for some note inaccuracies, my pitch detection isn't the best.

 

3:47 G#4?

 

0:18 G#2? A2?

0:48 G2? A2? Idrk he's sliding around in that area at least

3:20 Sustained E4

 

2:10 lower range display, really this whole song is a lower range display and midrange display. 

 

1:20 F#4? G4?

1:47 E4

 

This one's just for fun, nothing to highlight

 

And the rest are just unhighlighted

 

 

 

 

He sounds like a baritone to me. Yea, he's very much into the Sinatra kinda style. Those E4s are belty, I don't hear tenors doing that while adjusting vowels like that. 

 

2 hours ago, Ripkaby said:

A bit unrelated: Nayeon is still on the lower side of W-A while Jeongyeon is bottom A right? 

I wonder what Nayeon will showcase in her coming solo (most likely the same issues but still hoping for some improvement)

No, I don't think Nayeon was ever on the lower side of W-A, it's more along the lines of middle or mid-high. And I still don't know about Jeongyeon. I've heard her sound pretty unimpressive during some Twice' ballads and unfortunately those are the only materials we have in 7 years of her career. 

1 hour ago, exodus05 said:

Can Taylor Swift supports atleast? her lows sound solid maybe E3/F3? Does she support her G4/G#4?

She does actually, pretty consistently in a certain range. Taylor has some affinity/natural comfort for her lower range, but E3s are a bit of a stretch considering she's not actually trying to maintain support there most of the time. I haven't paid enough attention but I think I'd give a pass somewhere along G3 area maybe (unlikely) a bit under. Again, she's not really focusing full support there usually. Yea, she can support G#4s just fine. She just doesn't maintain the cord strength around A4-B4. 

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, Sarah Oon said:

How does Taylor’s lows compare to other idols with developed lower registers such as Seulgi or Tiffany in the average tier? The strength of her lows seem over exaggerated by fans imo. She sounds full and grounded there, but I wouldn't say anything past G3 like you say is supported. Mostly just tonality and comfort. Plus comparing her “supported” G#3/G3 to others such as Seulgi, Tiffany or even Karina and there's a stark difference between the quality of the support and development. Taylor sounds more comfortable than supported imo.Also, you really think she supports consistently enough in her mix to give her a supported range? I do think Taylor supports ever now and again in her mix like Jennie, Chaeyoung, Joy or Mina do. But I wouldn’t say it’s consistent enough for a supported range. Her live performances, even while standing still, can get messy and are usually cleaned up post production. Plus Taylor’s mix had a host of issues and just lacks a foundation. It veers more to talk singing to me.

Her lows are more like extension and natural comfort rather than support. I've heard her have decent tonality down to D3s but still go kinda airy on G3/F#3s and that's because she's not really focusing on 'supporting' it, she just lands it. So no, I wouldn't say they're more developed than Seulgi's. And yeah, she can have a supported range sort of, it's consistent enough. Tbh the support is way more present than the W vocalists and consistent too, it's not only there when she's 'talk singing'. 

[ZRH23]

6 hours ago, Killae said:

About NCT, do you guys think Taeil is better than Doyoung? Taeil totally has better low and agility but their mixed registers confuse me a lot. It's easy for me to claim that Taeil is more opened than Doyoung up to G#4. However, Taeil's A4s are not as consistent as Doyoung's, tightness and sometimes high larynx are present when Taeil tries to approach the A4s in a chestier way. With great effort on practicing, I believe Doyoung's A4s are quite solid now though at times, nasality is still there. Also, they both have moments on Bb4. I just want to know opinions of y'all about this cause discussions with my friends even confuse me more :(((

My opinion on this hasn't really changed lol. Like that has been mentioned before, it's not a matter of how many notes they can support. Taeil just has stronger cords when he sings, his midrange isn't floppy and generally speaking he sounds more solid and projected D4 - G#4 wise even though he himself doesn't have any round/open vowels, and has a lot of quirks that causes tension. It's not just a matter of mixed range, Taeil's foundation is just stronger than Doyoung's. 

Doyoung has a lack of chest engagement in his midrange and mixed, on top of placement issues. tendency to get more stuck into his nose, some misplaced tongue even when he goes bolder and just isn't forward. The reason why his Bb4s aren't sticking so much is also due to his more flimsy foundation, he can't land it out consistently cuz the cords aren't cooperating. And through the recording sessions, even he himself knows there's something not quite right with his sound lol.

All this alone would make Taeil a more developed vocalist than Doyoung, not including his lower range (which is not that impressive compared to others, and his agility isn't really enough of a plus point). The notes and the range they manage to execute doesn't matter that much here. 

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, himi said:

What's the consensus on DK? iirc some said he's mid A ish but upon listening to this he sounds stronger than majority of the Average boys especially the F#4~G#4. They don't sound average to me. More like A-AA

 

DK had always been around High A for me actually, he's still cleaner than Baekho and not as stuck as Youngjae usually. He has D3 down from what I remember. Thing is, like always with high Averages, he doesn't drop all of his support as he ascends to G4s. But I wouldn't say his handle of it is that strong. 

@3:40, not that impressed with this F#4, he's projecting half through his nose. @2:24, even more so on this F4. The karaoke clip is better but keep in mind that's a lot of reverb lol. @4:00, the G4s aren't that strong. The support isn't completely lost but he's not having the same strength. He's also a bit into his nose a lot more than Seungkwan in the phrases. @4:27, there's some pushiness but the cords aren't that strong for me. There is some support tho as I said. It's a contrast to SK in the clip after and he's not trying that much imo. @4:37, I'm not a fan of any of these KOMS G4s ngl. It can be a bit into his throat, the placement could be better. Even on the phrases. @5:36, this one is better. @6:17, this is some bright pushing. It's not bad but I wouldn't say it's that strong. @6:55, this is the best one so far. 

He still sounds more high Average-ish to me but then again, some vocalists on the borderline do still need to re-listened to. But yeah, he'd be one of the higher Averages at least, for me. But I don't know if I'd say he has F#4/G4, when he still has some tendency to go on kinda weaker sound below that as he projects half into his nose. 

Another 'Average' that had more potential than I remembered after I listened to him again is Pentagon's Hui. 

 

He always did have a quite a full, more on the chestier side midrange but I was under the impression he's had issues on and above F4/F#4ish. A bit early on too. But I've heard some more stuff. @1:36, phrased G#4s carry support. @1:58, Bb4 isn't that bad, but I especially liked the G#4 after he went down, that was a nice. @2:08, G#4 phrases afterwards are a bit into the nose but still carry support. 

 

@2:12, phrases G4s ish all carry support. Frankly, I prefer his sound in midrange and mixed way more than Jinho usually lol. @3:23, Jinho is lighter and brighter.

@2:43, his range G#4/G4 can still retain that chesty support. It can be cleaner but still, I like it. All these G4s are stronger than the ones in DK's compilation imo. 

1 hour ago, RATY said:

Those G4-G#4 don't sound strong at all most of them lack support, as far as I've listened to some of his performances he can't handle G4 consistently well but I've been listening to him for a long time, he might be better now but the video you attached G4 support is not enough in my opinion and his G#4 still need improvement.

Rookie group from JYP  Other than Nmixx, it's not too bad for a 4th gen.
@3.54 F3 @3.56E3 He supported E3 but overall I'm not impressed with it.
@4.06 A4 @4.09 F4 @4.10 G4 @4.12 G#4-G4 @4.26 G4 @4.31 F4 @4.32 G4 
He can support the G4 but not so good(still have problems like 4.10), he still pushes a little around the F4-G4 but this video he gave a fuller sound than the previous video analyzed but it's unlikely that anything will change from the previous analysis either.  I'd rather listen to Jooyeon, he can supports G4 as well in the previous video. 

 

I mean, if you say DK's G4s lack support, then this guy's are worse off tbh . He's average yeah, but quite light. There's not very strong chest development there, it's way less bold than DK and less full than the high As.

[ZRH23]

On 6/4/2022 at 12:11 AM, Reckittsia said:

Hi guys, would you consider the G#4 at 2:36 as resonant ? Sorry couldn't find a live one that's as good as this attempt in studio .

also @BAZISSINO since you're the most familiar with Baekhyun, did he attempt a passable Bb4 that carry support before ? I know he can be very rough up there sometimes even on A4, thank you in advance.

Not really relevant but so far that I've heard, he does about the same on live performances too. Idk how live or reliable it is, but it's a good vowel for Baekhyun.

On 5/31/2022 at 4:56 PM, Ti Na said:

Does anyone know what the vocal rank of "Bernard Park" is? (you are the champion of kpop star season 3)

@ZRH23 do you know

 

I don't remember him being a developed vocalist. 

On 5/31/2022 at 9:07 PM, lighterxx said:

Since I clowned (sadge) I will put this under spoiler

  Hide contents

 

please let me know when you clown me I don't understand reason most of the time ;; 

 

They did alright as usual. Not much going on with Seungkwan, there's one kinda open G#4 phrase somewhere I think but most of the time, he's not singing in the sweet spot. DK sounds nice as always, that chestier ish mix. Not bad G4/G#4s really. 

On 6/1/2022 at 8:39 PM, universal girl said:

how did class:y's chaewon do here?

 

There's more effort to stay grounded on the verses. But her support isn't developed, the strength isn't there yet. The chorus is messy. I'd say it's mostly shallow due to the underdeveloped cords. 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 4:29 AM, Tsukimono said:

Does anyone know when exactly Yuju stopped producing resonance? It was around 2018ish right? Or has she produced a single resonant note since then? 

No, not 2018. I'd say it's more like late 2020/early 2021. She might still have the capability to land some good notes here and there if she put her mind to it, but most of her songs right now don't have even have the setting for it. It's not like she got worse from 2020 lol.

On 6/5/2022 at 8:40 PM, Sarah Oon said:

Can someone explain to me how Hyolyn is above the higher proficients like Taeyeon and Eunji? I've been watching queendom and all of her performances have been extremely light, bright and slightly pushy. Her output in her mix seems kinda meh compared to some of the higher P or P to G.

 

What Hyolyn lacks is rounder vowels. That's why she doesn't have that 'soaring' quality or a clearly 'resonant' money note.  Both Taeyeon and Eunji do have that. But Hyolyn makes up for it by the way more consistent strength she has Eb5 - F5. And unlike Minhye, Hyolyn doesn't just go light in that range. 

It's not like Taeyeon and Eunji are being resonant left and right. I'd say Taeyeon is less impressive in her lazy mode too as compared to when Hyolyn is in hers.

On 6/7/2022 at 11:03 AM, nana_moon said:

some recent Seoho (Oneus) singing content, how is he doing?

thank you! 

He did as usual. Even when he puts a bit more effort instead of just light, his coordination isnt strong. What's good is he's pretty clean, but aside from that, I'd say he's more on the mid-low ish Average.

11 hours ago, ANTI said:

how good is this former sm trainee?

8 hours ago, Killae said:

I didn't hear any sense of support in his performance. Additionally, posting a video on Youtube and labeling himself as an SM trainee didn't make any sense to me. I wonder who could believe this?

I disagree, there's definitely support there. He sounds young or too raw to be strong and settled on the higher parts. But it's still way more present in support than the likes of Dreamies. I'd say he's doing quite fine up to F#4 and he's on the right track for the A4s at least. I don't know bout how real or whatever the trainee is, but I wouldn't have minded hearing something like this from an SM rookie lol. There's potential at least.

1 hour ago, himi said:

Just found out that N.Flying's rapper is not bad at all. Randomly came across these clips

0:48 He can support his mid-range pretty fine. There is a couple of phrased E4, F#4 here and there. 1:36 F#4. 1:48 E4 followed by pushed F#4. He sounds like he's somewhere in average. I like that he's more on the chestier side unlike most recent average guys lol

Actually, I disagree. This is a good example of chesty shallowness for me lol. The chest that he puts out helps make it sound fuller and less weak, but actually the quality of support is pretty weak. He's not just pushy, he's got stuck issues throughout, into his nose and into his throat.

@0:52, you can hear how he sounds shallow and stuck even on A3s. Even for the W to A vocalists, there isn't any obvious lack of strength down there lol. @1:01, stuck C#4, got more into his throat too. The next line sounds more like the usual shallow tenor since he's not forcing/darkening his voice as much. @1:36, yeah, almost the presence of support on the F#4 is quite lacking, especially considering the coordination he's trying to pull off. The E4s and F#4s after those are way too pushy too. 

I'd say he's weak, he just doesn't really support in general. The chestiness helps create a sort of more grounded, fuller approach for him but the actual strength from the cords and the support is more nuanced than just that coordination.

[ZRH23]

57 minutes ago, noprinterjustfax said:

How she did here?

 

I like the first Eb5 and the phrased ones. Personally, I wouldn't give a pass to the sustained F5. A bit too aggressive + pushing and for her it's a lil too shouty for me. The Eb5s coming down from there too is kinda messy, could've been way better imo. But the phrased F5s were better, I'd say there's support on them. Overall there's still some amount of tension up there from the pushing but I'd excuse it for the style here. 

[ZRH23]

23 minutes ago, Killae said:

About the "former SM trainee", I hear nothing except tightness, throatiness and nasal projection in his belting. He may have some moments with okay breath support but I hardly identify any proper supported note in this video, anything higher than E4 is stuck and throaty.

Well, that's okay then. I just disagree. I do think you might be mistaking the timbre/tone of his voice to be portraying those qualities you're mentioning. His voice reminds of Shin Yong Jae ish kinda tone, or it's close to Haechan's timbre basically. But I don't hear the rest that you're talking about. He was pretty clean, not a lot of grittiness or throatiness even on the A4s, it's just bright pushing. He's a bit into his nose in some parts (@0:32) but that's not a big issue, it's not 'stuck' exactly. @0:50, sustained F#4 is perfectly fine really, nothing throaty about it. 

@1:02, this is nasal projection and being stuck in the nose on phrasings. @1:56, whiny, nasal and a bit tight on F#4s despite the lightness of his approach. 

It's a completely different sound from that 'trainee' who's way more relaxed and clean. 

 

 

[ZRH23]

1 hour ago, Devoux3817 said:

Haewon

https://youtu.be/q5OL7freGz4

50 minutes ago, caracalftw said:

I like her D5. E5 head voice too 

I think what I like the most about Haewon's cover is her approach in midrange. This time is relatively balanced for her. She's not going too cutesy bright, nor is she going for that chesty way (which doesn't suit all songs). Instead it's more of a grounded, bright but fuller sound and it just sounds like she's gotten a handle of it throughout the song. Hopefully it's consistent, it just means that she's slowly getting comfortable with her voice.

However, her phrased C#5s could be better in the chorus. I'd say there's still support but it's just a bit unrefined still. The D5 at @2:47, hm... I'm not sure if I'd give it a pass. It got just a bit closed and a bit smaller in sound. She could've been way fuller. I wouldn't consider that nice. 

Idk if I missed it but I don't hear the head voice E5. Yeah overall it was nice and simple for her, could use some more focus and refinement for the C#5ish area but otherwise she sounds good.

47 minutes ago, Tsukimono said:

Not Kpop but how is the vocalist for Novelbright? Any support here?

 

Yeah he supports throughout. He's way cleaner than most Japanese male singers I've heard but he also has a tendency to sing through his nose, just not that stuck. I like some phrases up to G4ish

On 6/13/2022 at 9:35 PM, BabyKBK said:

IMO there's a case to say Jojo is maybe a soprano. I don't hear any significant gap intensity wise compared with Solji in the fourth octave. Her voice is quite a bit less heavy than Miley, Adele and Jiyoung. @ZRH23

 

I'd say Jojo in general has a brighter tone than Miley, Adele and Jiyoung but the characteristics of a mezzo is there imo. She's got better belting than all of them by far though so I mean, comparing her B4s with Miley's or Adele's is bound to sound different . 

You'll start to hear the changes she has to adapt to her belts once she's climbing the A4-C5 range. Those A4s and B4s from Jojo carry more weight than Solji's for sure. And it's not just on sustained notes. You'll hear that Solji has a relatively easier time phrasing C5/C#5s even with her issues compared to a mezzo like Jojo. 
I could be wrong tho ofc I'm not good at hearing these things necessarily, but I don't hear it with these comparisons. 

[ZRH23]

The rookie spell is still quite strong on Haewon. @1:15, phrased C#5s still do carry enough support, her approach in this one isn't as nice as the other cover of hers. It still sounds slightly awkward. Head voice C#5 could be better. @2:08, I don't know what happened to this C#5 here but it ain't cute. It's the first time I've heard her sounding like this on a C#5 though.. A bit concerning but we'll have to wait and see if this just rookie nerves/bad moment or will it be a regular problem. She has sounded way stronger on C5s before. It got tight and closed, which is unlike her. If anything, I would've expected pushing while trying to project. @2:27, but phrased C#5s are way better in support. @2:56, I like the D5 head voice. This section of hers gives me Yuju vibes lol. But she's got some pitch issues here and there. 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, caracalftw said:

Lily and Haewon duet. More on Lily’s lows

Haewon E5, Lily F#5 (?) This is probably their hardest cover.

Ooh, a proper Korean ballad. Finally. 

Lily's singing a lot of F#3ish I think, they're all quiet and breathy. I hear support around A3. Same for Haewon. 

@0.38, Bb4 phrasings very easy for Lily, same with the B4s too. We love to hear it, they're all just clean and smooth. The phrased C#5 also carry support. @0:56, same with Haewon. She's going a bit chestier mode, sounding a lot like Yerin lmao. But yes, she's also going good Bb4 - C#5. 

I can't really hear the second verse but it's safe to say A3 is a sure thing for Lily. But G#3 is a question mark, I kinda doubt G3s are there fully imo. 

Chorus again, they both are doing well. Haewon slightly more chesty than Lily, but Lily has those solid cords so it's real easy for her. I don't hear any issue in their midranges. They could still have better vowels and more belty sound to it but there's no obvious rawness to their approaches either. 

@2:43, E5 from Haewon is kinda lighter and more tight, squeezed. It's not too bad but it's obviously not her strength up there. @2:47, oh but I like that phrased C#5 right after. Quite strong. The D5s made her voice crack but I don't think it's that bad tbh. She's trying to maintain the support there but maybe her cords weren't prepared. @3:00, these D5s carried support imo and I liked the B4 after. If the vowels were a bit rounder and focused it would've been great. 

@3:05, bright E5 from Lily, nice mixing. Oh she's coming for those D5s lmaooo. Lily has better handle in the 5th octave than Haewon, the difference here is pretty clear. Even though it's bright, it's also more controlled and strong in support. I liked the phrased E5s and F#5s too, they're just a bit too narrow and up there for her to carry that full bodied support. Nice sustained C#5 at the end too. Again, all that is missing is that round vowel or at least enough openness for that 'resonant' sound. 

But this is real nice from them, been waiting for this kind of performance and they didn't disappoint. You wouldn't really expect them to give it their all at a wedding performance too but yeah.

Both of them have around A3 - D5ish covered here. Haewon had some nice chestier C#5 phrases here but got a bit awkward on the D5s (I do notice that she's more prone to voice cracks than the others), there's still enough support though on some parts. Lily has a quite polished sound C5-D5/Eb5ish and she's been consistent with it tbh. I'd say Haewon is closer to a more projected 'resonant/open' sound on the B4s but Lily has more strength in the 5th octave and generally a more developed vocalist. 

3 hours ago, Sarah Oon said:

Nayul is the best if we're taking overall (she's a soloist) but if you mean idol groups, Yechan is, with Lily, Ningning and Haewon not that far behind (and all three of them need more materials as rookies so they could be better but we'll see with more time as they mature)

 

Nayul output sounds better than some of the lower proficients like Jamie. I was shook.

Yechan is in a nugu group called pink fantasy. 

 

Nah, Lily has done better than Yechan by now lmao. As far as 4th Gen idols go, Lily is at the top. Then Haewon and Yechan. Unfortunately I still haven't heard NN going for the 5th octave with that kind of coordination or strength.

Edited June 19, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

23 minutes ago, 721su said:

@ZRH23 what your thoughts on people saying lily is an AA-P material? 

It's not a matter of her support range, she just lacks the stronger, fuller sound that AA-P and that's fine, it may come with experience. She would need some more fullness in her approach at least, better yet, resonance. I wouldn't say she's AA-P yet. Jamie still has a relatively fuller sound A4-C5ish and her other registers are still more developed. Yerin still has way better handle at her belts. Raina also has that fullness in her midbelts and the lower range. It's just a matter of time for now really, I haven't heard Lily pull off that sound.

It's perfectly normal for a newly debuted vocalist to be around 'half a rank' lower than what they'll be once they settled so who knows. Overall I just think that Lily has to settle in more. I'd say she's doing better than Sunye/Minkyung at least. 

[ZRH23]

On 6/19/2022 at 7:02 PM, jbrt211 said:

 

https://soundcloud.com/user-998614447/123a?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

I recorded a short audio of my lower register. It took me a while to gather my courage to post it here since i'm not really confident and i'm still not used to my recorded voice. I wanted to record an audio of my headvoice too (since my mixed voice is underdeveloped) but i got nervous so  Also please kindly ignore my bad pronunciation

You sound like a tenor if that's the lower range for you. I think first thing is that you'll have to try to enunciate more clearly and let it be precise. Because how you enunciate and your pitch is how you'll end up sounding passable when singing. You can also try some exercises to help with nasality since it's one of the more prominent things. 

On 6/20/2022 at 1:59 AM, himi said:

Another average perhaps? 

 

Ngl I wasn't aware Drippin had a main vocalist who can support, I was under the impression that their best one is their lead (around W to A at most) for some reason smh. But uh.. He's got some placement issues all the way down to those E4s. He goes tight here and there and it's like never forward. Lee Hyeop's Average but it's still below anyone else who could've sounded cleaner and relatively more forward E4ish range. 

On 6/20/2022 at 2:58 AM, Reckittsia said:

Hi guys, found this and thought about sharing it with you since in this version they sounds cleaner without the layerings and harmonies, so any thoughts on the C#5 at 2:13 approach wise ? I know it has a lot of reverb but it sounds somewhat full to me ?!

Also dropping this cover by Giselle, nothing new some mid range singing and some phrased G#3s they sounds nice I think ?!

 

I think that was a C5. It sounds fine as usual. 

Personally I wouldn't pay attention to these more underdeveloped vocalists' lower ranges unless it was the really obvious ones (Yonghwa's B2s, Yedam's C#3s etc.). These soft G#3ish aren't really notable.

On 6/20/2022 at 5:33 AM, galhadineas said:

 

chaehyun was pitchy at 2:16 

it's weird because it sounds like she has a clean enough conection but the amount of support she uses isn't enough to sustain notes that aren't even that high like Bb4~B4. It gets worse when she goes like C5.

It's not that weird, it's basically Sunny. 

10 hours ago, Killae said:

Seunghee and prime Hwasa, both of them struggled with sustaining C#5s but a lot of B4/C5 resonant moments provided them a place on AA 

Aside from how they aren't in AA and don't have resonant moments, thing is that they both have wayyy more obvious problems than Haewon does. 

Seunghee's nicer belts only come in like once or twice a year at this point lmao, it's a seasonal treat. But most of the time? She's pushing on A4s without any roundness to boot, and B4 is even more of a reach when it comes to her pushing. I mean, she goes flat like 70% on that B4 in a song's climax, and the 30% is pushed. There's also nothing outstanding about her midrange either, it's just alright.  She's got some nicer moments where she's more relaxed but really her quirks are all a big part of her style as a vocalist. 

Hwasa doesn't even sing cleanly these days lmao. Again, ugly pushing problems all the way from A4, I haven't heard her land a good sustained B4/C5 in years (or ever lol I can't recall) so I'm not sure where consistent resonance here comes from.

10 hours ago, Killae said:

According to what I heard from Seunghee and prime Hwasa, I believe they did produce passable resonances with open vowels, and deserve to be at the very bottom of AA. Back to Haewon, her support quality can't persuade me a place for her on AA. It's hard to say she has solid C#5 with just passable phrased C#5s accompanied by nasality and some slight tightness, plus, no resonance in mid-belt, her low and head can't be considered as developed enough to give her a big buff.

I don't really care about the exact ranking of them when they just debuted. That strained C#5 from Haewon did make me surprised, but it's her only bad C#5 so far amongst others so I'm not too concerned about it. She's a rookie still and though approach issues are something that'll probably be prevalent for her, it's also not that bad. Haewon still has shown way cleaner A4 - C5 range, regardless if it's her bright, cutesy mode or even the chesty one, and the placement is pretty much on the same level as Seunghee's better moments anyways on some of her B4s. Her C#5s are just 'passable'. She needs refinement there, which is fine since she's a rookie, but they carry support a lot of the times which Seunghee/Hwasa cannot do. That recent wedding performance of hers, those C#5s are better than what any of the A-AA has given. She's also shown some degree of support D5/Eb5 ish, I think she'll have trouble making it consistent like Lily but the potential is there nonetheless.

It's fine if you disagree but your perception on Seunghee and Hwasa by themselves are already a bit lacking. Seunghee has open notes every new moon or so, Hwasa hardly ever did. Haewon in her best moments already had a stronger midrange than both of them (she can go chestier style, a bit heavier than Kei's), already consistently has a way cleaner sound A4-C#5 (she just floated through most B4s in that wedding song) and a few mishaps here and there during rookie years isn't too much of a deterrent for now. Hell, D.O was putting out A4/Bb4s since debut but people focused a lot on his voice cracks instead lol. It happens.

I don't really care bout Haewon's ranking as much, but she's not below these two lol. 

9 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

any thoughts

Haram's head voice is nice. The girl beside her in blue sounds like she can support, though she gets a bit into her nose. But yeah nothing much to talk about here.

5 hours ago, galhadineas said:

that C#5 was bad,  she started flat when she sang "speechLESS" before sustaining it. And no, it wasn't better than this 

3:12 

it wasn't even better than seunghee's classic pushed and bright C#5 from masked singer

Bad? The slight pitch issue aside (it wasn't that flat) the quality of it wasn't hindered by the pitch. There was some pushing but that's still loads better than whatever Seunghee is doing there. Even Lily right now can't really pull off a chesty, C#5 like that. @2:47 in the Speechless video, again, never heard that kind from Hwasa and Seunghee. And while Haewon hasn't pulled it off that level yet so far, her current C#5s aren't a far cry off.

Still probably one of her best performances (to which I haven't heard Seunghee repeat it again tbh). @3:25, the C#5 is of similar quality to Haewon's sustained one. Haewon's was a bit chestier and didn't have Korean show polishing. Although some pushing is going on, most of the time Haewon does fine carrying enough support. Meanwhile Seunghee hasn't pulled this off again. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

9 hours ago, Sarah Oon said:

 

 

This isn't really a vocally challenging song so nothing really new but I like Giselle's lows. I believe that was a G3? Those phrased notes Karina did in the end though... oof. That was not pleasant. I much prefer that run she did at Coachella.

7 hours ago, Sarah Oon said:

Listening again and Karina sounded quite airy and shallow throughout the song

Karina sounds fine imo I don't hear anything bad from her here. She's doing the same as always, the others too. 

16 hours ago, naomi24 said:

can I ask how's Chen doing after his military service? Someone replied that D.O. is still keeping up with his skills so I wonder if Chen did any improvement while he was gone.

 

I don't think anyone would have improvements while IN the military, it mostly happens if they decide to focus on their vocals after they discharge.

Chen is doing alright here as usual, he never went all on his YouTube videos in the first place. But still, it's a relatively easy range for him, peaks at A4 but mainly nice easy belts around F#4 ish. 

On 6/23/2022 at 9:02 PM, cth said:

don’t mind the quoting, just bumping hae’s recent Bbs on the topic 

 

Safe to say Bb4/B4 phrasings are easy territory for her. 

On the side note:

 

@1:47, probably her best attempt at the D5 and C#5. 

1 hour ago, jaedimps said:

How is Taeyeon doing here?
 

She's in her kinda lazy mode in here still. The phrasings are supported but just light and kinda nasal. Her head voice is nice.

 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, Bloob said:

hi just wondering how you guys feel about hyolyn's recent performance? 

3:35 Eb5

4:36 F5; 4:48 another F5 into Eb5

 

1:06 E5-F#5 

9:53 D5-Eb5-F5, there's another Eb5 at 4:21, but I assume this one is good? 

1st video: @3:35, nice Eb5. @4:36, the F5 is way less tense than the Queendom one. It's nice and bright, I'd say they all carry support. 

2nd video: @1:06, bright E5 carries support but the F#5 is kinda too brief and it doesn't sound there yet to me. 

3rd video: @9:53, yeah all carried support up to F5. Not a big fan of the Eb5 you mentioned though but she wasn't really focused or anything. She sounds great in these ngl. 

1 hour ago, Renner said:

I’ve been meaning to ask. What do y’all think of Jungwoo from BVNDIT? @ZRH23 @BAZISSINO How would you say she compares to someone like Winter?

I don't really remember how well she does Bb4/B4 area but I do think she had a slightly fuller midrange... If I'm remembering the right person lol.

[ZRH23]

On 6/27/2022 at 3:35 PM, Tsukimono said:

Is it harder to support sustained notes or phrased notes? 

Sustained notes generally speaking. But some songs have phrasings in a high key in succession, and that can be pretty exhausting too. 

On 6/28/2022 at 3:08 PM, _ohmyvon said:

Ningning’s C5 coming out really easy reminds me more of Ariana whose reputation during The Way was “speaking C5 casually”. Regardless, i think NN’s getting better at handling her nerves live.

 

She does put in more effort but her cords development are still more towards the light sound. What she lacks is that chest development that allows a fuller, more in depth sound to it. Even when she puts in more effort, the sound would be relatively light. I think she sounds a bit like Sunny but with better everything. That's still not an ideal comparison though so . 

On 6/29/2022 at 4:50 AM, namyuactivist said:

hello i know karina is not that far in entering the average tier and she needs more materials to confirm her complete validity with the tier. currently, what differentiates her with iu and soyou as the lowest benchmark in the average tier?? 

Karina does fine with isolated notes, some of her Bb4/B4 are fine enough. But the actual presence of her breath support throughout her singing is still more towards uncontrolled and at times shallow. On her random covers, I wouldn't say she does a very good job at maintaining clean support even in C4 - G4 range. 

12 hours ago, RATY said:

aespa live show 

 

10 hours ago, rere9991 said:

It's interesting why do her D5s sound so much fuller than the sustained C#5s? Maybe it's a stylistic choice but it's a stark difference going from that heady C#5 to a somewhat full balanced D5s. Are the D5s supported btw? 

Also I have a question who do you guys think has the better mix Winter or Seulgi? I get different opinions some say Winter cause she's been able to produce open round belts and doesn't struggle on B4s as much as Seulgi who has issues with nasality and tongue tension, some say Seulgi but i'm too sure 

I'm not sure if I'm missing something out but the D5s in those NN high note part is barely there lol. It's C5 - E5 - brief D5 - C5. So I'm not sure if I'd go as far to say as hearing fullness or support on a note that's really just in the middle. It's way too brief lmao. 

And the E5 is just a bit louder since she has to reach more for that so it makes sense, I wouldn't say they carry support. The C5 doesn't really seem like a stylistic choice, it wasn't that heady in the original recording. But even if it was stylistic, it could still be better even if she decided to go heady, her engagement there could be more solid. She sounds fine in her midrange though. Yeah, the lack of chest presence is something pretty prominent, it's what's different from other SM mains as well. Even Wendy with her whininess still has way more fullness and chest development throughout her singing.