Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[ZRH23]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, Dangerous Beauty said:

I am sorry for your inconvenience. Pls check this link instead

 

Her muscle development and coordination on the D5 is a bit lacking, she's going relatively light on it so it's not as tense or pushed, but it still has tension and doesn't really carry any strong sense of support. Gurlie's not doing so good, she's not really trying and I kinda doubt she can pull it off if she goes bolder. 

On 4/20/2022 at 9:49 AM, Ti Na said:

What's her Vocal Rank, and vocal range like?

Jinju, JYP's first singer

 

Her tone and approach very much reminds me of Luna (and a bit of Lena Park), with slightly less controlled sound in the 5th octave. I'd say there's some support up to C#5 but she gets messy when sustaining... it's her unique musical choices that reminded me of Lena lmao.  There's some throatiness issues too,  and a tendency to push and get her sound a bit backwards when she's trying to project even on A4s. But the good placement and some form of openness is there. She sounds like she's somewhere along AA. Her coordination isn't that great, it's mostly light. 

On 4/20/2022 at 1:48 PM, Lovelinuz said:

Is Kei's C#5 at 2:55 supported?

 

The phrased C#5 (Ee vowel) was nice and carried support. The sustained one is more towards head voice or a very borderline light mix, i'd say it has some support too. 

On 4/21/2022 at 9:46 AM, Boooo said:

Hello!

 

How would you rate Siyeon and Yoohyeon from Dreamcatcher? Are they at least avarage? Thanks!!!

Siyeon doesn't have much going on for her, no she's not average. I can't recall exactly how good she is or how present is her support. Yoohyeon's better but has moments of somewhat shallower support when she's not focusing. I haven't listened to her enough recently to know if she can make it to Average, but she's more developed than the Nayeon gang though iirc. 

On 4/22/2022 at 12:49 PM, himi said:

she's very pushy but she does support

@0:17 @0:24 carried support down to A3. sounds like she could be average. There's a couple of supported phrased Bb4 in the chorus. She kinda remind me of Choa without the throatiness.

 

19 hours ago, jaedimps said:

Is she really an average? I'm guessing she is a very low average if so since every time I listen to bg songs she is screaming her ass off... and when she isn't screaming she still sounds very stuck like in this vid

I'm not sure where you're hearing this stuck sound, I don't hear any obvious issues with nasality or placement really. And she's not that pushy, maybe in some Brave Girls songs there's some bright pushing around C#5 and up, but it's not terribly strained or overly pushed, it's just quite bright. She's definitely average, and not a low one. I'd need to hear more but she has considerably cleaner approach than half of the Average gurlies lol. Minyoung's support isn't as grounded or developed like Suelgi/Suhyun/Somin, but it's stronger than Dawon and Tiffany from what I heard so far. 

@1.12, she's phrasing Bb4 and C5s, and they carry support. It's a soft song and it's not intense, but there's some support nonetheless. @1.40, B4 and C#5 too carry some support on some of the phrases. Her development could be a lot stronger around Bb4/B4 though. And she's not pushing anywhere in the song nor is she stuck lol. 

17 hours ago, himi said:

Well their songs make her belt so high so I won't go harsh on that lol but she's still safely average imo

@1:09 She can support Bb4 pretty fine. @2:04 pushed C5 but not bad. Better than what W-A girlies could pull off. @2:45 that slide wasn't bad too. @3:13 Bb4-C#5-C5 ngl this sounds better than what IU, Choa can do on a daily basis. She's def average and not like at the bottom either.

She goes bolder than most Averages. It's not really refined enough and that's some bright pushing comes from, but it's not bad. It's closer to what Dawon did in Girl Spirit. For now, I'd say she's more towards mid/high Average really. Less smooth chest development, but bolder and cleaner projection than most of Average, and there's no obvious stuck or tension issues.  

13 hours ago, RATY said:

I go back and read old posts, I see someone saying  Taeyang of BigBang that he is that baritone, is it true?

That was during one of the debates back then about baritones. I think CY decided that he wasn't one in the end some time later. You'll see a lot of analysis/disputes that may or may not still stay true until today, we've learned a lot along the way. 

9 hours ago, Travis70324310 said:

Kim Haram of Billlie just released this cover, I was just wondering how she did here?

Haram has a nice midrange tbh, quite controlled and full. I'd say support is present around some of the G3/G#3. She's switching between head voice and a light mix in the chorus. @2.00, C5s aren't bad really. I wouldn't say it carries solid support yet but it's not bad, just a bit more development to go. Nice support below that though, there's still that full sound. @2.31, Eb5s in head voice has support too imo. There's still a bit of stuck issue here and there but it's not too severe, just could be more forward and bolder. I think she's doing better than the last time I saw her. 

If she's consistent with this, she might also be one of the higher Averages as well. A well-rounded one at that. All she needs is a proper grasp at a bolder sound in her mixed, she's got the midrange part covered.

7 hours ago, jaedimps said:

Thank you! I actually have another question since brave girls recently covered this kep1er song, who do you think did a better job with the c5's in the song minyoung or  Chaehyun? (I actually liked Chaehyuns better but like idk if they were actually better or if its because minyoung is being pushy while Chaehyun is just... not really putting enough effort I guess).

Chaehyun 0:32

 minyoung 1:19

Chaehyun is quite soft and stuck, Minyoung's first phrasing is fine, the second one has the bright pushing and got a bit uncontrolled. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

6 hours ago, jaedimps said:

If you have time to watch it I'll be glad if you could tell me if you think she still has shallow moments in this recent solo performance... 
 

I'm not sure how live this is but I'll just assume anyway. It's not the best song to show how well she supports when she's falsettoing most of the time. @1.00 and @2.50 are about the only parts she's singing in a less stylistic manner. It' fine, there's support and some stuckness issue... it's really not conclusive enough for me to know. But she'd be at most low Average or somewhere in W to A. 

7 hours ago, grid said:

not kpop related

i saw people calls him the king run & riff of indonesia, what do you guys think about his agility? is it as good as what people say?

https://youtu.be/Lx1eD0cJvA0

he start singing in 0:11

@0.26, @0.41, @1.50, I don't really have the time to check if every note on this perfectly centred but whatever it is, it's way above what Korean idols usually do lol. Yes, he's agility is pretty good. I'd say they're faster than what Kyungsoo has shown too, it's more close to Tori Kelly/Jojo kind of agility. @2.00, very Tori Kelly lmao. 

11 hours ago, Karinas said:

Cool video. It’s not really stating… anything new (even when it comes to showcasing clips).  Also is it just me or did the creator do Wendy super dirty with the belting section lol. There’s obv a gap between their mid belts but Wendy has much better A4-C5 videos to showcase. 

Also, I don’t personally think the gap in agility between them is notable at all (I’d honestly give it to Wendy do to her being more daring to do runs in HV). Last note and cmiiw, but doesn’t Taeyeon have F#3 fairly consistently? I remember most of the ones in her last album being supported 

Not really gonna comment on the video much, but yeah Wendy's runs can be messy. Quite messy lol, I have no thoughts on those Love runs lmaooo. Taeyeon doesn't try as often, and I do think they are more practiced and if she did do something on the spot, it wouldn't be that accurate either, but in general she can pull it off cleaner. Plus, Taeyeon's runs in studio >>. Wendy's alright for the more spontaneous short runs (and in her head voice) but the longer riffs, Taeyeon handles better. Still, there's no real advantage there for both of them lol.

55 minutes ago, noprinterjustfax said:

@ZRH23how she did here throughtout the song??

@ZRH23how she did here throughtout the song??

I don't think you'd be satisfied with any of the answers I'll give for these kind of performances from her . I've already mentioned before, Hyolyn compromises her coordination when she goes for dance performances, she sings in a more light, bright, pushy coordination and can be rough here and there. It's a bit of a disadvantage because it means she's not able to execute the notes that would've otherwise been good for her if she had been standing still (at least I hope lol). And while this of course comes from her wanting to save stamina (it's presumably easier for her to sing in this coordination), she doesn't even retain that fullness or strong sound even around her midbelts. Uji and Ailee has done better jobs at retaining that full, strong chesty sound even when they're dancing, and serving some vowels on the midbelts too. 

Hyolyn's performance on Queendom isn't anything impressive so far. Even the C#5 is meh for me. The E5s and F#5 are pushy. Maybe some support is retained on E5s but it's not really in an obvious manner where I'd say she's slaying it or anything, it's nothing notable. 

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, jaedimps said:

low average or so seems about right... 
3:00 what notes are the "hae" and "oh" right after? (I tried using a virtual piano and I think its an a4 followed by a b4 but I don't trust my hearing enough)

That's the highest estimation. I'm leaning more towards below that to be honest, unless there's more substantial material. I remember her sounding better around her debut era, at that time then yes, I'd say she was Average. Nowadays, it's not so clear. 

@3.00, E4 followed by an A4. 

1 hour ago, noprinterjustfax said:

But how she did on the studio version? Same thing?

Yeah, same thing, no notable difference or improvement in quality. Really think she could've at least nailed the C#5 though. 

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, redhoodedgirll said:

 

 

It's not head voice btw, it's mixed. It's a very close ratio of  more head to chest, but the muscles for mixed voice is still engaged. Basically she's bridging it. So yeah, it's still nice and controlled though. 

10 hours ago, NoelVys said:

Hey there, anyone know whether James Arthur is a baritone or a really dark tenor? I used to think he was the latter, but now I'm doubting my hearing lol. 

(follow-up, anyone know how good Anne-Marie is? I hear she's actually quite good, like better than the Average girls but I don't think the performance I linked shows it) 

I'm leaning more towards thinking he's a tenor. Not that dark, it's just his technique (or lack thereof) and style. I've heard occasions where he's singing F4-G4 without needing to adjust to the sound like a baritone would, no need for a more opened jaw or the kind of intensity spike to reach the notes. He only starts to adjust around G#4/A4. I could be wrong still, but I also haven't heard anything in his lower range that's substantial. 

Anne Marie more than average? That's news to me, not that I've heard of so far. But I don't keep up with her and that performance was meh. She does have support though. 

1 hour ago, galhadineas said:

ning ning pitch was a bit off in those perfomances, it was a bit underwhelming tbh. Maybe she was nervous because she was performing at coachella idk

1 hour ago, teolaegiberry said:

 

aenergy (no vocals )Black Mamba, Savage, Life's Too Short

(they have separate videos in their channel if your prefer it like that)

Next Level

 

Funny how all dreams come true, they sang live obviously this time, may I ask about your thoughts hmm ? ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

thanks in advance ～(^з^)-♡

It wasn't really the pitch that's the problem (I mean yeah there's pitchy moments but it's not THE issue). I do think it's because of how out of practice they are in terms of living singing in live performances. Ningning is trying at least (she's not going all light) but she's inexperienced, and hasn't really managed her breathing properly yet. Keep in mind this is their first live performance most probably, and their rookies still. A lot of idols (even SM ones) go quite shaky in their rookie years in live performances while dancing. So this isn't really any solid grounds of judging her abilities yet. 

That being said, I don't think any of them showed anything new. We know their level already and they're doing as expected lol. 

[ZRH23]

On 5/1/2022 at 11:52 PM, RATY said:

What is Nayul  12DAL ranking?  

I saw that she could support D5, I thought someone might have talked about her here 

Oh yeahh, Baz forgot to put her into the ranking lmaooo. I didn't notice until it was mentioned earlier too . She'd be at the top of AA to C. She has the most potential as far as the mixed register goes, but still some issues around her midrange and just overall a slightly less developed sound as a vocalist. But still, her mixed is still better than the rest of the AA to C (yes, even Yerin. Nayul has way better moments and coordination around D5-E5) and even some (almost all really) Proficients. 

7 hours ago, seulgisbae said:

Finally

new Seulgi content

 

6 hours ago, RATY said:

The performances from both clips still show some of her usual problems (Nasality, Tongue Position, Vibrato). The second video has Some C5 0.32-0.33 I thought were passable lol , I  couldn't  wait to hear other people's opinions.

The C5s could be better. It did carry some support as per usual with her case, but yeah, the other issues doesn't make it look particularly good lol. But I'd say she sounds consistent to what we know bout her, strong and fuller sound up to the Bb4/B4s. 

 

39 minutes ago, SanaReleaseYourHoldOnMe said:

Hello, I have a question I'm curious about. Baekhyun has been dilligently attending vocal lessons and working on his technique since 2019, but, according to what I have read here, hasn't fixed any significant issues or made important progress, so what exactly is he working on in those lessons ? He has been mostly praised on his "stability" so I'm confused. 

I think it's more towards finding his own style and sound since he was going for solo activities. He did have some improvement though. Sure, it's not as obvious as Chen's Bb4s for example, but I do think he kinda fixed certain issues here and there. Just overall a bit more refined in his approach I suppose. He may have potentially improved his lower range and upper register too but we'll know for sure once he's out of the military. But yeah, considering the variety of styles he experimented on for the last couple of years, it's possible that the lessons he's going for is to develop his voice for those styles. The songs that he sings are still within his usual capabilities too so it's not like he's always going for more improvement range wise.

[ZRH23]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:33 AM, NMSyamin said:

How she's doing here? i mean the whole performance

Head voice here? 2:13

 

Eunji did as usual in the 1st performance, nothing stand out there. I'd say the Eb5s were too floaty and 'high-larynxed' to give a pass but ofc, nice mixing. Yeah, that sounds more like a head voice to me, a bit more connected than her usual falsetto. 

On 4/25/2022 at 1:37 PM, Karinas said:

No prob her coachella was iconic we know nobody’s keeping up with that. This was when she was a lot more unrefined. i just thought her oversinging tendencies when she was younger is funny. 

Like here, the runs was sooo excessive .

 

Oh no not this performance . DC Beyonce was a whole other era LMAO. She is still very very extra usually but in way that's not annoying or messy.

On 4/25/2022 at 5:42 PM, Ti Na said:

What is JOO Vocal Rank?

 

I'm not sure how reliable her studio voice is, she sounds better in the first two videos, but they're both in 2011 whereas the third one's in 2015 and she sounds meh there. She should be somewhere along Average, A to AA at most since the 2nd video sounds stronger around B4 area actually but yeah, wildly speculative unless there's live performance of it. 

On 4/28/2022 at 3:46 AM, Shoolon822 said:

I know Miyeon is considered a weak or borderline low weak-average vocalist but how did she do here? Her solo debut! Any notable changes here this time around

 

Miyeon's not that borderline in the W to A area. She still sounds relative fine up to A4. Above that though... the lack of development can cause some pitch problems throughout, but her support is still usually present in the middle of phrases so yeah she's fine for her level. 

[ZRH23]

13 hours ago, 721su said:

Kyujin G3 on 0:11 & 0:13

Lily G3 on 1:02 

Support or not? 

https://youtu.be/xBrrdxtyWHw

It's a kid's song and they're both not doing well on the lows.

18 hours ago, Ti Na said:

What is Lim Jeong-hee's vocal rank?

 

This must be one of the aunties too lol. 

For the 1st video, I'm hearing support on the C5s towards the end but  like @2.45, there's some issues that prevents her voice from being freer. I think it's a bit of misplaced tongue or tense jaw or both. 

2nd video; she sounds tired here, I didn't notice any throaty issues in the last video but they're here in this one but it sounds more like tiredness. There's some misplaced tongue here and there but it's mostly fine. She could be fuller in general, the coordination is a bit more on the bright and light side of things but I think I can guess her rank. @3.28, phrased C#5s carry support, the B4 has that sort of raspiness. I'd say her C#5s mostly carry enough support.

So it does seem like the slight rasp/throatiness quality is there in her voice and not just a random occurrence. 

4th video; @7:12, C#5s are kinda nice ngl. Definitely around AA level. She has some problems with letting the sound be freer and opening properly. If its not tongue, then it might be some issue with the jaw. Same in the 5th video. Moments where she kinda projects into nose and tendency to sound a bit muffled in her singing due to some tension. She reminds me a bit of Younha but more limited and more quirks.

She sounds like a low AA or so, support up to C5/C#5. I didn't pay attention to the full performance so idk bout her lower range but yeah, she's around AA. Her coordination isnt anything that strong and she has more issues with tension than the Mid AAs for me, but her she's still capable of handling those Bb4 - C#5s notes way better than the Mamamoo gang.

5 hours ago, Dangerous Beauty said:

Hello guys!!

I want to ask you guys' ideas on Yuju Headvoice

1.Since when she has developed a support to F5/F#5?

2.Is her current Headvoice now is more like F5/F#5(G5)

3.Is her coordination and development in HV ok-ish?, especially in Play era

Her head voice hasn't really improved since debut, if it did it wasn't that significant. Her head voice is more on the 'just okay' side, nothing special. Above Seunghee and Boa level but I'd say it's below Taeyeon's. It's nothing to shout about really. 

6 hours ago, himi said:

From this I'm sure Hyojung should be at the top of W-A but could she perhaps make it to average? Her lows are surprisingly decent

 

Ngl I do like some clips here, she sounds stronger than I thought. There are other clips in here that also has some relatively shallower tonality ngl. But Low Average seems possible... ChoA and Soyou also have questionable moments . 

[ZRH23]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:31 AM, caracalftw said:

Did Chaewon improve?

NGL their debut album lacks powerful vocals 

She sounds the same. The best I've heard from her was her IU cover, it would've been a bit interesting she continued with that. But now this is just the usual light bright but shallow mode.

On 5/4/2022 at 8:26 PM, elseelseelse2 said:

Hi, I'd like to ask about CIX's main vocalist Seunghun. He was a YG trainee for a long time before moving to C9 Entertainment so I'm not expecting much. I found a bunch of videos of him singing:

Seunghun sings at 1:32, 2:13, 3:15, 3:51, 4:08, 4:13 for this video.

0:48, 1:38, 2:08, 2:25, 2:54, 3:14.

This is his latest cover, from today:

Thank you! Also, Bae Jinyoung (he's in this group now), he's....not very good, right? To my rookie ears, he doesn't sound particularly developed?

He has somewhat decent tone connection, meaning he doesn't make it sound too bright and light tone-wise but in terms of actual development, it's shallow land. Basically the similar (and slightly worse) as any of the Hybe vocalists, similar style too. 

10 hours ago, NMSyamin said:

How's Eunji doing here?

I don't remember if i already ask this but how's she doing on 2:23

https://youtu.be/cQdFCxkXXgk

Eunji did well as usual lol. A bit more chesty sound, controlled and smooth throughout. I think @0.43 is head voice but it's quite low so it doesn't really count for much. If she dropped her jaw and opened up a bit, it would've been quite projected but that wasn't the style or point she was going for so yeah, good.

And yes you did ask that before. The C#5 was nice, but she didn't keep it as opened until the end, the vibrato kicked in and it was less open. Eunji just likes to sing in a controlled mixing kinda style and rarely let's go all out, it can be hindrance sometimes but I wouldn't say this is much of a problem here.

8 hours ago, Tianning said:

Is there a big difference between being comfortable with a note and actual support? I'm an untrained singer, but sometimes I like to see what notes are difficult for me. I have ease to E4/F4 and at times F#4 depending on vowel and I know I don't support obvs because I don't have training. Anything G4 and above is tight. I did hear that's normal for untrained singers, regardless of voice type? I was just wondering if relative comfort is a step towards support.

 

It depends on the range really. It's not uncommon for people, even untrained ones, to have more of a comfortable feeling below their 2nd passagio. Usually it's because it's quite easily accessed in our daily lives and you don't really have to adjust the 'mechanics' of your voice to speak or sing within that range, as opposed to having to build the throat muscles to mix beyond the 2nd passagio. Even the more shallow vocalists you can hear in K-pop, they're not exactly struggling with hitting E4/F4s, they're comfortable but just not engaging in breath support. 

I'd say there's quite a difference between those two, in terms of the feel and also the sound. When you develop support and build the cords to handle it, it's pretty much constantly present (within a given range). It will feel different and I suppose, it'll get even more comfortable. Like you can just whip it out and it'll sound just fine. Relative comfort, without the absence of support, is basically just relaxed singing. I wouldn't say relaxed singing is close to 'supported singing', it's just not tension-filled either. The step towards support really comes when you're working those cords, and that's where being relaxed and comfortable will help. 

5 hours ago, RATY said:

@ZRH23

 

Clip 2/2 1.04 A4 Resonance ? I think it sounds a bit pushed and less opened (I don't think it's Resonance but i might be wrong)

 I'm a bit confused between the amplification of sound or he's just belting with bright pushing.

(I'm sorry to bother you , I like to read you explain) 

Unless it's the sound system that's acting up, no, that's not resonant. The audio is a bit worse on Twitter but basically yeah it's some pushing and he got a bit closed in his throat. The amplification of the sound won't be obvious if it's the vowel or throat is not open. Ailee's distorted vowels for example makes her sound less 'amplified', the loudness mainly comes from her belting in general if that makes sense . 

I do think the recording is a bit tweaked (for the worse lmao).

 

@2.40, the bright pushing is still there (nothing new for him) but the throat is more open imo. I'd say there's some resonance there, there's some bright resonance throughout. And he's doing great overall... Except for above Bb4 lol. He's trying to belt the C5s the same way he does on A4s and it's just a lot of work and a lot of pushing . But still, man knows what he's doing, that jaw is dropping lol. 

1 hour ago, sergel said:

Obligatory Queendom vocal units post.

 

 

Minyoung might be more towards the lower side of Average after all, the sense of support isn't that strong through her midrange ngl. But she sounds more off than usual (I think). Hyolyn is as usual, could be better too. The C#5s are nice but overall just could be a lot rounder, a lot fuller. Even in a relaxed setting, Hyolyn doesn't go full. It's similar to Taeyeon lazy mode I guess. Uji definitely has a more overall ingrained fullness to her voice.

 IU cover is...yeah.

The last cover too. Chaehyun would sound a lot better if she wasn't soft and into her nose all the time. It's very safe, too safe and doesn't really work the cords in that's needed for a stronger sound. The support is there and it's present, but with the way she's going, it will only be soft and limited. 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

I'd also like to ask about Seungyeop from the nugu boy group E'Last. He's not the main vocalist (I think?) but people seem to believe he's the best one in the group. I've found some covers he's done:

He's the blond guy on the left ^

He's the black haired guy on the left ^

Thank you!

Okay, here's the thing with these new nugu 4th Gen groups... I almost never know what to expect from any of them . They can sound wildly different from one video to the next. And this is no exception. 

The first video is nice. He's struggling with the lows, not very developed down there but there's an effort to try maintain that flow of support. The chorus came and yeah, there's definitely support and it's not the light kind either. There's some misplaced tongue throughout but mostly his F4s and F#4s are quite fine, G#4s aren't bad especially the phrased ones, he sounds a bit like Chen tone-wise. So with that first impression, I'd automatically assume at least around mid-Average ish or so because he's not being soft or anything. 

Then the 2nd video comes and it's a whole different person LMAO. There's still support but the approach is much lighter, he sounds less full in tone, more bright but bit more stuck in his nose as well. He went to sounding like Chen tone-wise, to sounding like Jungwoo . It matters because the kind of approach he uses, especially with a new vocalist like himself, kinda sets himself up with how he'll sound in the future. There's much more engagement with the cords if he continued with the sound in the 1st video rather than the 2nd one, which will make him far more limited in terms of development. 

It's such a stark difference lol. This is the tenor equivalent of squeaky, bright cute singing that the Korean gurlies do. It's also the same case as that TO1 main vocalist. 

3rd video, and he's bordering on shallow land tbh. The engagement is not nearly as present and the tone is getting whinier. By contrast, the one singing beside him has a better grasp at a fuller, more relaxed tone. He's got some support too but I don't think it's that developed. But he's relatively clean throughout, he's doing better than Seungyeop.

4th video, same case here. Seungyeop sounds unimpressive. Some support but light and quite projected into his nose. But it seems like the guy singing next to him is the same as the previous video, his name is Wonjun. And Wonjun has a closer idea to supporting actually lol. He sounds alright. He's still a bit underdeveloped, support is kinda dropped at the end of phrases and there's some lack of control, but there's some support in his singing. I got a bit confused there because because there's still music with vocals playing along. 

@2.17, this guy is apparently the main vocal... Yeah he sounds the messiest . 

Honestly, a lot of the idols would be much closer to actually supporting when they try to embody that 'full' tone or just by singing naturally without adjusting too much to have that bright light sound. The cords would still be underdeveloped but since they've been singing for a while, it's not completely absent either. Seungyeop's case, I've seen about 3 of them already in 4th Gen . They'll start of sounding more grounded and solid but slowly loses that in order to accommodate into their 'pretty' voices and it ends up much more limited. Thing is, you can still sound pretty once you start having a solid foundation. I don't think anyone listens to EXO vocalists and hears unpretty voices lol. That's how the tone would actually shine (as opposed to that Korean myth saying technique will sacrifice tone ).

[ZRH23]

48 minutes ago, Blueish said:

Quick question just to confirm, Chaehyun is an average gal right? Where exactly does she place? 

Also does anyone else in Kep1er support?

She's an Average yeah. I haven't heard enough (well, she hasn't sung enough) to know for sure but I'd say it's below the Yuri/Jihyo gang. Chaehyun isn't as messy as Yeonjung but at least Yeonjung tries, there's nothing much going on for Chaehyun tho lol. 

I haven't heard anyone else in Kep1er so I wouldn't know but as far as I remember, probably not.  

[ZRH23]

20 hours ago, Blueish said:

Thank you~

And just as a quick follow-up question, does she have B4s and C5s down, or only Bb4s? I'm pretty sure she's got Bb4/B4 at the very least but I'm not too sure.

 

13 hours ago, sergel said:

Might have been posted but ChoA recently went on Immortal Song 2

 

 

 

11 hours ago, galhadineas said:

 

she sounds less nasal than I remembered, she still has a lot of tongue tension. It seems like she has been working on her mix and her head voice, she's much more comfortable singing higher (she was singing REALLY high here). Those Bb4s were nice too. 

I don't remember too much of how she sounded in AOA but it's honestly not that different unfortunately. She did have some moments where she was relatively clean (in the sense that she's not stuck, but the tongue and throat tension had always been present), it was just that she got a bit worse into her habit over time. This performance is probably one of her better ones in recent times but it's not exactly improvement, she's not doing way more than what she could have done previously either. 

It's less messy and the support is more focused yeah. The tongue tension is quite present tbh, some words were straight up mumbled n jumbled because that. I do like her midrange in this. But the Bb4s still had that ugly placement. It's too rough from the throat. The support is there but it could be much cleaner and forward. And that's accounting for the tongue tension yet (which is more tense than Seulgi's imo). @1.42, way too rough for a Bb4, she can't project without being scratchy.  

She wasn't singing that high I think, except for the bridge and it's not that long, she was mostly just singing G#4s and Bb4s but still had that amount of issues. @3.07, if she actually knew how to place her voice well, that would've sounded quite nice. The C5s were too much pushing and she still has that cord closure problem too like at @3.41, air is leaking on what's supposed to be a stronger coordination. 

 

8 hours ago, Tsukimono said:

Was any of her HV supported? It sounded so pretty.

IIRC back in AOA days her HV wasn't supported.

It's definitely one of the best attempts I heard from her I think, it's not straight up falsetto. But personally, I wouldn't give it a pass. @3.54, I like this one the best, but yeah the connection to support isn't strong  enough for me. 

 

8 hours ago, RATY said:

Head voice ranking female in Kpop Top 5 ?

1.Sohyang ?  2.Lena Park? 3.Shannon? 

4.Ailee?  5.Luna? 

I think Ailee is doing really well up to B5, her head voice is quite full for a pop standard. I think she has Octave 5 better than Shannon for the most part(even Luna could have done better until Bb5), but Shannon has Octave 6 better in support of D6.

What do you  think?

I disagree on Luna doing better than Shannon up to Bb5. Luna's is still on the lighter side actually, she has her moments here and there but it's relatively light in comparison to better ones. 

Sohyang's head voice lack the depth and fullness of a really nicely developed head voice, it's quite light and floaty most of the time. But she definitely does have the best handle in the 6th octave for me. As light as it may be, those D6s are good enough lol. Arguably, Ailee and Yeonji's are fuller but they stay in a safer range of F5 - A5 mostly. So... It's interchangeable really. I'd personally give Sohyang the edge. 

Lena Park most definitely did NOT have a resonant head voice till F6 even in her prime lol. I'm not sure how well and how much is acceptable her head voice was in her prime but she's the same case with Sohyang. Quite light and floaty head voice, lacking the more advanced coordination. 

Personally, I'd rank it as:

1) Sohyang  2) Ailee 3) Yeonji 4) Lina 5) Shannon

But again it's arguably and I don't quite remember how well Shannon did so it can shift. But basically anywhere below B5, Ailee, Yeonji and Lina have more fullness and more advanced coordination (relatively speaking). With Yeonji having the most 'depth' (no need to compare it to the big leagues like Whitney and Beyonce, those are a seperate category lol), Ailee having better control and agility in her head voice. 

But Shannon and Sohyang have the range, Sohyang has stronger cords in the 6th octave. 

6 hours ago, Reckittsia said:

Hi guys I wanna ask about how accurate this video is ? also any opinions on her mix voice approach and coordination also her head voice since it's stated that she's classically trained

 

Arabic singer? @BAZISSINOseems like your thing. 

Her head voice has some good coordination, yes. I wouldn't say it's classical level, it just sounds that way because of the songs she sings. It allows for more 'operatic' sound but her head voice isn't that full yet. I'd say it's still below Whitney ish level. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, Blueish said:

Thanks for the answers but my question was actually about Chaehyun hahaha. Maybe you quoted me by mistake

I forgot to answer that actually . Sorry lol. It's rare for an Average vocalist to actually just have A4/Bb4 and absolutely mess up B4s. Because that's basically a soprano's midrange so usually they can manage to carry some support up to B4 even if they're Low Average (like IU or Sojung, ChoA gets a bit too throaty but the support in itself is possible). So yeah Chaehyun technically can probably do okay ish till B4s. But not C5s no, she's too soft on those. Even if they're relaxed, it's still more or less the same level as having Bb4s. 

3 hours ago, RATY said:

I agree, Sohyang head voice is lacking fullness It light and floats mostly but her support is generally pretty strong and no problem, sometimes she can show fuller sometimes.

Yes,I see E5-A5 Lina has more fullness than Luna but I think Bb5  Her is really good

 

I didn't really see the fullness of her head voice in the 5th Octave (except when she was young), it floated more than Luna 

 

 

1.32 E5 3.00 G5 3.23 Bb5 4.22 G5

2.01 A5 2.43 G5 

If what I'm hearing isn't wrong I think Luna has more coordination in her head  voice and as I said Shannon can support it even higher.

 

1 hour ago, RATY said:

Luna and Shannon are light and floating, they both lack the advanced coordination to achieve a deeper sound in Head voice.

What I'm going to explain is that Luna is more coordinated and connected in her head voice quite consistently as you can see from Shannon's 2nd video @2.54 @4.21 that got me thinking Luna has a better connection up to Bb5, but in general I would place Shannon higher than Luna because Shannon supports  6th octave better and what I'm saying doesn't give Luna that much of an advantage.

Okay yeah, Shannon has less head voice examples than I remembered lmao. To be fair, she hasn't been there long at all. She was in the scene for like 3/4 years with minimal promotion. For some reason it's also not her preferred go-to register either. Luna had a lot of opportunities to go all out on her head voice. 

Anyways, the examples in the battle video are not impressive yeah, but to be honest, I'd say most of the floppy ones are stylistic. Yes, Shannon's head voice doesn't have that great of a coordination, but it's also definitely a lack of trying too . I'd say the G5s in the Hello compilation are quite nice actually, they're more focused and 'pure' sounding, it has some coordination to it but it's not as big as Ailee/Yeonji can do it. But it's better than Luna's. 

Luna's IS2 performance was the best HV showcase she's had, and I don't think she has managed a nice sustained note that high often. I don't like KOMS ones, those A5s aren't great. 

@3.02, Minhye did better on A5s. Luna's A5 was a bit too thin on that coordination, it's like she's already going up to the 6th octave if it makes sense.

 

@2.58, it's still not her full head voice, I do think there's some amount of stylisticness going on when we compare this to the Hello one where she doesn't go airy even on the D6s. Anyways, the B5 and A5 still have some development compared to Luna's even when Shannon was going for a bit more of a falsetto sound. 

Overall, you're right they both have the floaty, light head voice. Now, in the case where their coordination is more or less the same, I'd give way to development instead and Shannon has more comfort above G5 generally, and she generally has a slightly purer coordination below that. Luna has her good moments too but she pushes and thins out there more often even when she's trying harder, Shannon generally struggles less with that while on falsetto ish mode. 

But since Shannon is inactive and has questionable materials as well, the next best alternative would probably be Ock Joo Hyun or Minhye first before Luna. Maybe. Lena isn't out of the equation too if it's up to Bb5 ish.

 

(In my previous reply, I left the big 'NOT' when I mentioned Lena's F6 . No she doesn't have F6 in case yall thought I agreed instead lmao).

Edited May 7, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

22 hours ago, teolaegiberry said:

we got new Chen content (*^▽^*)

I think the phrased A4s sound fine, very fine, also some nice upper register moments, he sounds relaxed ( ˘ ³˘)♥ 

... I might be wrong though (^_-)

 

what are your thoughts ?

Ooh, he's back! He sounds fine ofc. 

On 5/11/2022 at 10:05 PM, Sarah Oon said:

How is Yunjin doing here? I was waiting for some proper singing moments of her since she was singing very stylistically or her vocals were over processed on the debut mini.

 

Her mid range sounds nice but those belts and C5's seem very tight and tense. Do y'all think she's at least Average? Tbh some of the low averages sound better than her.

She looks a lot like Tzuyu with that hairstyle. Ngl, I didn't expect much but this is a bit underwhelming too. Definitely loss in support down at G3s, but the verse was fine, there's some grounded fullness there in that B3/C4ish range. But yeah. very small sound on those C5s. Obviously the usual Average wouldn't handle C5s well either but they'd at least sound like they're putting in the effort along with support. Her sound is just thin, kinda light and very much into her nose at some point (like Jihyo ish). I wonder if it's the audio mixing issue as well, the quality is just a bit weird. I think she'll end up in Average anyway but where exactly we'll have to wait but this isn't a good material basically.

On 5/9/2022 at 2:48 PM, himi said:

1st clip @0:20 I'm hearing low larynx on the C3. @0:41 @0:55 phrased A4s weren't bad. @0:45 @0:59 the G4s were fine

there isn't much but @1:46 I did like the A4. A bit into his nose but it wasn't bad at all. But he was a bit pitchy in some notes. @2:48 that was a bit flat. @3:03 that slide

I kinda disagree. Thing bout Chan is his general development in support overall is still a bit basic. His midrange C4-F4ish is pretty meh and it's just a lack of more solid, full sound. The phrased A4s were into his nose and kinda small. I mean, you can say it's 'not bad' but the degree of 'not bad' is different for me . Again, it's just quite basic and short, and the overall approach makes it easier for him to reach but it's still small in sound. The G4s were also pretty basic (and I wouldn't call them supported personally), the A4s are nothing noteworthy imo. And ngl I think the C3's just fine, I didn't really hear a lowered larynx, just a dip maybe.

He was also projecting into the nose throughout the second video, pretty basic light coordination throughout. The A4s are the same. @2.38, F4 is kinda unfocused approach-wise, it could be a lot more bodied even for an Average. 

 

On 5/8/2022 at 4:42 PM, Tsukimono said:

How were Yuju's F#3's? @0:10, 1:53, 2:58, 3:03. The studio versions of these were supported from what I heard.  Also, how was the rest of the performance? She still seems to have the same issues, hoping that prime Yuju can come back...

They dropped in support. I wouldn't really call it supported in the studio version as well. Yuju has problems with G#3/G3 still, so F#3s are a bit of a reach. 

On 5/8/2022 at 4:39 PM, RATY said:

 

I know most Kpop fans exaggerate for her head voice but I think she support to C#6/D6 , although the quality isn't the best, but her support is generally strong, she uses her head voice without any effort and easily control  head voice, as well as considerable flexibility and seamless transitions.

I no longer care about rankings, I saw you saying that she only have Bb5.  I just want to know the material you just referenced.

Well, have you heard any material of hers for C#6/D6? She mainly dodges them now, the highest I heard from a recent video was around 2017 where she phrased C6, in which I guess you could call it support but with that coordination for her head voice, it's not really a big feat. She mainly sings around G5-ish range now for head voice, maybe some A5-B5, the quality of her head voice is still too light and bright compared to the others with fuller head voice. Strong support doesn't translate that well without some change in coordination for head voice. Also, Lena can get messy with pitch and runs in head voice so there's that lol, I think Ailee has shown better control in that aspect too. Even during her prime, I'd have thoughts on giving her C#6/D6 because it's just limited in sound wise.

On 5/8/2022 at 5:08 AM, exodus05 said:

I checked Ariana again wow she really does have C5/C#5 now and demi regressed I think??

Who said she had C5/C#5 . Ariana's the same as she had been for a while now. 

On 5/8/2022 at 3:30 AM, pruneau said:

i dont think she has ever been discussed here, but how would you rate british singer alice chater? she said she was inspired by whitney, celine, xtina and co. hasnt released music in almost 2 years but shes planning on dropping her debut album this year (hopefully lol). really good pop music honestly

i just feel like she sometimes sings in a non-natural voice (kinda like britney)

  Reveal hidden contents

2:43 shes not doing the same note as the actual one in the song though

 

1:49 acapella version of aries

6:41 acoustic version of tonight

10:50 heartbreak hotel

 

 

3:04
 

2:52

 

the range planet has a post with some more stuff (the bold ones have links) https://therangeplanet.proboards.com/thread/654/alice-chater

 

Inspired is one word to describe it.... I don't think she has any real focus or solid grasp on technique. 

[ZRH23]

Also, just dropping another 3rd gen tenor who recently (not really, probably around 2019ish) improved to (Mid-High/High) Above Average. 

Melomance's Kim Minseok (someone already called dibs on making videos for him so y'all don't try ). @0.27, soft support can be carried down to B2. @0.46, easy phrasings on G4. @1.08, A4 carries support. @1.10 and @1.20, relatively more open on those A4s (he doesn't have these moments often). @1.48, C3 again there's support but he doesn't go bold. @2.10 and onwards, a lot of A4s and all of them carry pretty solid support. It's better developed than the likes of Doyoung's handle of A4s for example. @2.43, not bad Bb4. And yes, a lot more A4s later on lol. 

He's basically the male version of Park Kiyoung, but cleaner in his mixed, way less throaty and minus the head voice. Which also means that he has some muffled tongue issue that is persistent throughout his singing (it can be more prominent here and there too) and also, he belts with sort of a half-nasal sound where he partially projects the notes through his nose. There's also the lack of round vowels, though I do think some moments pass for a small degree of bright resonance and also, the lack of effort on the midrange C4-F#4 range. He likes to sit his voice a bit higher so below that, although his support is developed enough to not sound weak down there, he hasn't really shown any good presence or even tries to so.. 

Previously, his issues were even more prominent. The nasality was more present and it's straight up stuck a lot of the times. @0.50, very much into the nose especially at @1.18, it's quite obvious. The video above, though it was still partially blocked, was just bolder and more forward, better projection throughout. It's also just improvements in support and development, he sounded a bit less strong here and these are G#4s. 

Also on a random note, here's Wendy supporting Eb5s in a recent radio cover: 

@1.50 and @3.13. It's also one of the more chestier approaches she's taken on Eb5 (particularly the second one). It's nice to see she's taking the effort on radio shows too lmao.

Edited May 12, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:13 AM, himi said:

Yeah Chan's midrange is pretty meh I agree. It's more apparent when he's going for a lighter approach like the ones in the video (and like 80% of the time lol). I think he sounds better when he goes for a more stronger sound like when he covered Young Blood. It's relatively fuller (for the lack of better word) and not so nasal, into his nose. Maybe 'not bad' on the A4 is a bit too generous on my part lmao. And after re-listening to the C3 they sound fine idk what I heard on my first listen. Maybe I was confused with the Bb2/B2 before that. With that said did he improve or did I overlook his lows. Always thought he had just D3. Even the cover on Soundcloud had some nice moments. He sounds fuller than what I remember

 

Also speaking about HV enjoy some HV from Seunghee  not on Lena's level though that's for sure lmao

 

I'm not too sure whether he improved or not, I guess you can look at older material (I think you mentioned once how he generally improved a bit from his debut days).

Huh Seunghee's HV has better moments than I thought. The support is consistent but the cord closure needs some work. But it's still better developed than Kei's for example who can go too light sometimes until support is not really there.

14 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

New-ish Yonghoon (and Dongmyeong) content. Onewe is going to be on a band survival show in June (right in time for half of them to enlist this year...haha....) so more live performances from them are coming.

Also another cover Yonghoon did and some karaoke sessions:

 

Yonghoon did as usual: strong, grounded midrange with some quirks like tongue issues and the jaw, his G#4s (and mixing in general) are improving relatively speaking and there's some support being carried but it still can be quite pushed. His vocal tract is still kinda small for AA so the notes aren't really rounder or better projected the higher he goes. I hear support until C#5 with his head voice.

The 1st cover: @1.30, this is a better moment on E4s for him, I like it. Way more presence than some AAs. @2.20, G4s are nice for him, I remember that he can have way more pushed moments. He's having improvements in ease and mixing. He still doesn't go any higher lol Yonghoon plays safe often. 

2nd video: @1:45, G#4 is still a bit too pushed for my liking, but it's not far. There is some support, he just needs a bit more strength there. His phrased G4s in the chorus are fine. 

3rd video: @2.23, G4s are nice in support but the last one shows the effects of his tense tongue as it draws back the note into his throat. 

Oh and for Dongmyeong, he's doing... As usual too . Ngl, one of the weakest leads I've heard so far imo. I'd say it's  below even the Dreamies level with his issues, that's why I don't mention him much.

11 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

@himi some more A.C.E content from a recent vlive, it's not live singing but Chan plays a bit of a cover he and Donghun did:

 

I'm not sure who's who, but yeah, stuck issues don't really get better there . 

10 hours ago, NMSyamin said:

Support ? 3:41 

How's she doing here?

 

@3:41, almost, it had support at first but then it was dropped, and it's quite obvious lmao. But she tried to go more grounded than her IS2 attempt. 

And she did fine in the Boa cover, of course she does .

7 hours ago, kingjiho said:

Thoughts?

I might be mistaken but I think it's one of the thread readers/people that made this too. The ranking was ofc more or less correct because it's been stated here but the points overall are too general and not really correct to some vocalists' issues or strengths.

1 hour ago, Sylvaincks said:

11:07 Hi, what do you think about the G5s ?

Ooh these are nice. Yeah, the G5s definitely carry support. There's more effort here, I like it. You can still hear the rookie rawness on some parts but she still did well on those D5/Eb5 at the end. 

[ZRH23]

59 minutes ago, NoelVys said:

I'd like to share something that I might get clowned for. 

Unpopular opinion I guess but Kyuhyun really doesn't impress me much as a vocalist in his consistent way of singing. He does this thing where he coordinates his singing to, I assume, sound "mask-placed" (cause SM loves that) but it kinda makes him sound like he's projecting through his nose (+ his weird vibrato) he kinda like a stronger Doyoung. But he does have his moments where he impresses me. 

Impressed 
3:17
4:05
4:11 (this one especially) 
5:05
5:40
6:16 and 6:25 The Screamer Changmin vs the Belter Kyuhyun 
6:58

Iffy impressed
3:36
3:43
3:50
5:26
6:02

Nah, don't worry, it's pretty reasonable. Some others have also pointed it out before to the blog people, but it never really caught on and it's been a while so. 

Yes, Kyuhyun has some very obvious habits in his mixed range that's pretty questionable lmao. I've noticed it for a while too, the topic just never came up much here. It's not that his placement makes him sound like he's projecting through the nose... he IS doing that, sometimes quite strongly lol. Kyuhyun does have control over it but honestly, there's more of those moments rather than the impressive ones. Now that doesn't mean he's 'inconsistent' per se, but more like he makes it a habit or a 'lazy mode' approach. Like how Taeyeon on the regular sounds pretty light and there's a lack of presence to her mixed when she's in her lazy mode, Kyuhyun's habit is to go nasal. Why? Because generally speaking it's easier on the chords to sing with that approach. It's comfortable, and on most occasions they don't bother to go all out. I really do believe they know when they're opening up their sounds etc. there's such a big gap in sensation and they do it intentionally that I doubt vocalists on that calibre just hit it by luck. But I do think it can be considered as a flaw because this also means a lot of their regular singing are hindered by these habits whereas there are other vocalists who maintain their proper approach in all occasions. It's just not a huge flaw all things considered because it's more or less by choice. 

 @2.25, the G4 is just really easy for him and he projects half through his nose. It's a bad habit but one that he can consciously get rid of if he focuses. Compare it to @3.18. With vocalists like him, the development and the ability is definitely there. In fact, even if he projects through his nose most of the time, the strength in his cords G4-Bb4 is still way above the other K-pop vocalists even Chen and Ryeowook. 

@3:43, @5:26, @6:02, I personally think these are all fine and part of his better ones. There's no nose projection here, it's pretty bright and opened, there's resonance. He might sound a bit awkward at the start of a note but it ends up adjusted.

@3:36, a bit tense and blocked until the vibrato which opened it up a bit. But the support is going on strong. @3.50, the note was a bit awkward like he didn't quite decide on how to execute it. I hear a bittt of nose projection, but otherwise it's also strong. The vibrato, well, nothing we can do about that lmao. 

So yeah, saying that Kyuhyun never goes nasal is definitely an overlooked statement because a lot of the times, he goes the easy way and project halfway through the nose. And he also doesn't drop his jaw in those moments, just a small mouth opening. In fact, I did think that his constant usage of nasal placement sort of made him a bit out of shape in his upper belts, particular B4/C5. It's not quite as strong and can go a bit flat. That's the effect of not working your cords enough up there. I was getting a bit worried ngl. But then he can whip this out just randomly:

@1:45, he really just pulled out THAT Bb4 then proceeds to go back into his nose partially lmao. He knows when to land those money notes. Plus all those really strong Bb2s at the front is just topping. 

I do think that he's a bit out of shape in terms of the top parts of his range, I'm not a fan of his B4s recently. But still, because he still has considerable strength in his mixed even with his bad habits, plus his low notes which are on par with Chen imo (he puts more effort sometimes too) and his connected head voice with some extension to it, his ranking overall still wouldn't really change. He's basically the male Ailee as far as feats go. Developed mixed with some persistent issues, one good developed register that is solid (Lows for Kyuhyun, HV for Ailee) and one other register that is developed enough but not particularly outstanding. 

19 minutes ago, Devoux3817 said:

many head voice moment from ning ning, any thoughts?

They're fine, I think it's up to only Eb5s ish, they all carry support.

 

 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, NoelVys said:

Oh I thought I'd be roasted alive lol. Thanks for confirming some suspicions. I actually brought the topic up because I was listening to and watching some live "Hot Times" performances (rip Jonghyun) to see how Kyuhyun approached those Bb4s, which were kinda wobbly in the middle, I assume it was an attempt of vibrato but just to ask, does being light/"heady" in singing still affect that stability of sound even for vocalists at his level? (it kinda reminds me of Sunny, weird comparison I know) you mentioned the "not working your cords up there" leads to slight weakening and being pitchy, so I assume it's similar? 

I actually thought this one was approaching shouty rather than awkward nose projection, that's why I put it under iffy. It seemed like a really old clip so I thought this was a more rookie thing (I don't really follow SuJu so cmiiw) 

Whoa that was huge, andd we get back to the nose lmao. Was it a bit pushed tho? 

Thanks for answering the questions and then some, greatly appreciated

I don't remember how he sounded in that song tbh (it's been a longggg time and I only remember that C5 that's always highlighted). For a vocalist of his level, being 'light/heady' shouldn't compromise him much no. Unless he's doing it consistently without engaging in his chest muscles much.

See; the real reason why Sunny's coordination is such an issue is because she never really developed that solid, chest feel that needs in order for her chords to strengthen, which affects her pitch, stability etc. If you listen to Kei here:

Even with cutesy, lighter approach, you can still hear that her cords are strong and there's sort of a steady foundation behind it. The same can be heard in Eunji when she goes light (I'm picking the more obvious examples). Usually going light/heady doesn't weaken them unless they're going at it for a long time, like Wheein's case for example where she ends up just being soft. I've never really heard Kyuhyun go all light and heady though, it's more just bright. 

But what I mean by not working the cords up there is more referring to projecting through his nose. This habit doesn't engage the cords enough to really work them to their fullest. It's like hindered exercised. Over time, the upper limits sort of flop because you haven't been working them out enough with the way you exercise. I doubt that Kyuhyun will regress till like losing A4s because his foundation is still very strong and his cords are still working to an extent. But his B4/C5 range has never been THAT solid to begin with and he would need full focus and strength to hit good ones. If that makes sense.

I don't hear issues with pushing on the Bn4. Maybe a bit due to the intensity so it's not really an issue there. He was going bright too so he's not really pushing a lot.

Edited May 14, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

5 hours ago, RATY said:

 Sohyang does that sometimes?, I mean she places her sound in a more nasal focused area, I've read through from somewhere maybe on Reddit.  The people there said that she used this method to get to the high notes, it made it easier for her and supported it all.(I think it's different from Kyuhyun  problem)

 

 

Actually in Sohyang's case, it's not really nasality. She's very twangy, which to an extent can sound similar with it being a bit whiny and sounding weird when done in the lower 5th octave. Maybe she does go into her nose here and there but it's not the same frequency of Kyuhyun as far as I know.

Nasality/singing through the nose can make it easier for singers to access higher notes, due to less stress on the cords (you can hear in Melomance' guy or Park Kiyoung) but Sohyang doesn't use that in her high notes, it's twang. Also, her coordination and development of the cords is quite different from how the pop singers do it. Even including the greats like Aretha, Patti, etc. Sohyang developed her voice in such a way that her F5-B5 range is distinctively fuller than the rest of them could manage. But this is a sort of isolated special case cuz I really haven't heard anyone else doing so. The downside is her lack of presence and effort below D5. There's some good moments imo here and there but for the most part, it lacks a punch.

48 minutes ago, NoelVys said:

 

https://youtu.be/o7GzBxIDqCg

The link's not embedding but 2:18

That was the first performance I watched, but then I watched a lot of others, and seeing as how he consistently does that in all of them, I'm just assuming the "wobbliness" I hear is his vibrato. (though arguably, in some pedagogic circles, some may call that a wobble lol) 

(the quoting is all over the place sorry) 

Yeah, I'd say that's just his weird vibrato trying to kick in. The support and all are completely fine. It's like when Haeri tries to do it and it ends up messier lmao.

[ZRH23]

44 minutes ago, good_morning said:

Hi guys, i just wanted to ask about lesserafim after their encore fiasco.

if you haven’t seen it here you are

 

and i wonder how “live” was their “it’s live” performance?

ps.idk why chaewon and yunjin who are/were good at singing couldn’t hold a tune? Lack of proper training may cause a regression?

thanks!

That's an exaggeration, they sound fine in the encore given the situation. They're either crying or laughing but when they sing, it sounds fine to me. I don't hear any regression, and it's rare to regress when your instrument hasn't been that well-developed anyways especially this early on so no 

[ZRH23]

On 5/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, chaeyonass said:

not kpop but anyone here knows if rina sawayama supports???

and how do u guys think she did in these clips 

 

 

She supports but it could be cleaner, there's a lot of stylistic stuff she brings into her singing. Like tongue issues. But the support isn't really present in a wide range, it's more like Bb4 ish I think. There's some support in head voice too but also in a limited range. And it's quite light too. 

On 5/17/2022 at 10:07 AM, noprinterjustfax said:

 What you guys think about this?

 

Yeah I can agree to most of the analysis. Some notes that they labelled as strain is fine though lol. And I wouldn't say her agility is a highlight. Most of those runs are... . 

On 5/17/2022 at 4:09 PM, jaystompie said:

Hello,

I just want to ask how I did in these clips. Since I honestly thought I was a baritone until last year I had to adjust a lot in my singing. I still can't even hit A4 on pitch 100% of the time right now. But I'm working on it. Anyway here are the clips.


First is an english ver of Taeyeon's What Do I Call You (just because it seemed mid rangey enough). I translated the lyrics so I don't butcher the lyrics as much.
https://voca.ro/1cjb9JjvyNJD

Next, on the belts. Here is a G#4. Song is Taeyeon's Time Lapse

https://voca.ro/14iJ6Hplr9XW

And last, here is an A4. Song is Exo's Mama because apparently I can only hit A4s on pitch while singing Exo songs.

https://voca.ro/1eFoyqvJdcix

 

Thank you in advance.

1. You do have some form of support in your singing. In this cover, I think the most distracting part is your tendency to really project into your nose on some consonants. Especially the 'n' consonant. It would sound much cleaner without the overemphasis into your nose there. The pitch could be better but that will improve as your support strengthens, your dips into head voice isn't bad too! 

2. Something about Taeyeon's high notes bring out the inner belter huh . Your placement was bright, it's not bad! It was a bit into your nose but it's not bad with how you try to open and project the note, but immediately after that you go straight into your nose fully. So I think that's the main thing to address. 

3. It's kinda yelled for the A4 but tonality wise, it's not bad! Good attempt . Don't worry, A4 is a pretty high note for a tenor actually. You'll see plenty of the weaker tenors nowadays really struggling to reach for that A4 too so if you can manage to brightly yell it, it's still an achievement imo. 

On 5/17/2022 at 10:21 PM, elseelseelse2 said:

Some Mr. Average Seoho:

 

Seoho kinda sounds like Shin Yongjae actually on those high notes lmao. Interesting. Pitch could be better in some parts ngl.

13 hours ago, RATY said:

Interesting I didn't know this  presuming,  Advanced singer .... Maybe I felt that way with Whitney  Head voice, what I learned in the classroom was vibrations may be felt throughout the head, but the only resonating area (that contributes to the sound) is the vocal tract. 

Sometimes that presuming may refer to the advanced coordination of the head voice  depth etc.   Thank you , I'll try to find out more (just in case there's some research on this).

I mean... that assumption doesn't really apply to Whitney because she does fulfill that assumption . Her head voice is definitely one of the best coordinated ones in pop music. Even in her usual 'pop' songs, the way she uses her head voice still applies that depth on the regular. That's why I'd say it's great, even if she doesn't exclusively opera with it. 

@3:28, that is Whitney actually trying to do it in a rather 'classical' way, full effort with the more advanced coordination. Of course, it doesn't hold up to proper opera greats, but when it comes to the more recent comings of 'classical' singers or the crossovers... I'd say Whitney takes the cake. @4:45, she can bring it up to C6 and it's still a pop setting but great coordination nonetheless. 

There are still other pop singers who do a decent enough job at maintaining that depth and chest coordination in pop settings. 

@1:55 and @2:30, Lina doesn't have this kind of sound in her head voice. 

@2:45, could be a bit more stronger with that coordination but it still has a bit of depth to it compared to even Sohyang's bright head voice. 

Perrie has less control and development over her coordination but you can hear how it still kinda sets her apart form the usual floaty pop head voice when she's singing pop songs like that first B5. @1:55 is what she sounds like when she tries to sort of play around and imitate operatic style, and immediately she does sound more 'classical'. I'd say this sounds more like Yeonji's usual mode too so I'd imagine if she did try to do an operatic imitation, it would sound stronger. The style in which you sing your head voice in will obviously play a part in how 'proper' you sound. But how well you can maintain a level of coordination even in completely pop scenarios are a good indication for me. 

 

4 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

how does rookie taeyeon compare to lily m ?still better ?

Yeah, I'd say so for now. Taeyeon in her rookie years still had good, chesty vowels quite consistently, something I haven't heard from Lily. They both kinda even out in other registers. 

1 hour ago, Shourie said:

New NMIXX Cover(s) 

57 minutes ago, 721su said:

new singing contents from nmixx girls any thoughts? 

https://youtu.be/t5gailJ3XyU

Of course Nmixx releases 12 minutes worth of covers lmao. Let's hear.. 

I'm gonna be honest, I can't tell which one is Kyujin or Jiwoo lmao, the rest are more obvious. @0:10, Jinni has some support. @0:22, this girl too, but it's just some presence and it's not really a good grasp at it. @0:42, Sullyoon definitely has a better handle at it imo. Haewon is in her kinda light mode, or the usual mode really. She sounds fine, but there's something slightly missing with her overall presence. It's how she switches to this slightly more unfocused sound. @1:00, some effort from Sullyoon here tbh, she's trying to sound a bit more 'full' compared to Haewon. But her development on the Bb4s and so on is still a bit under Average, it's not shallow though here. 

@1:23, basically all of them don't sound too shallow. Haewon is sounding cutesy and lighter lol. It's a bit jarring ngl, there should be a bit more engagement even if stylistically different. @1:50, compared to Lily, who still has a bit of rawness but generally has a more consistent fuller tone. @2:05, she has some support too. @2.20, not bad D5s from Haewon, she carries some support up there but Lily's are stronger and fuller definitely. Haewon's D5s are a bit 'shy' you could say, it's not fully there imo, or at least not to Lily's level. 

@3:00, Sullyoon is sounding more stuck and nasal here, when she doesn't put in as much effort you can hear how her cords aren't naturally strong yet. The other girl is around the same level. Haewon is sounding even cuter here lmaoo, Lily sounds good. Lily just has a more clear, consistent sound so far. @3:45, Haewon's C#5 still carries support, but it could be fuller and more grounded if she didn't go cutesy. Lily's C#5 are supported yeah.. 

Ooh, 15& finally. @4;30, see, this is Haewon being less cutesy and more focused. It's her relatively light mode and she's singing a bit into her nose but she's sounds better this way imo. Lily reminds me a bit of Jamie here. @4.:50, Haewon tried to channel the more chesty part at the end but I don't think she had the breath properly. Lily sounds cleaner in the midrange here, I like it. @5:14, you can hear that slightly chesty style come through. It feels like Haewon doesn't quite know when to use or navigate through those different approaches. @5:27, nice D5/C#5 from Lily, she's more forward in general as opposed to Haewon who projects through her nose here and there. C#5 from Haewon is supported, the head voice was a bit low to count. 

@5:52, Jinni sounds more like Weak to Average yeah. Sullyoon sounds better here. There's quite a few W to A in this group lol. The next two also have some support in their singing, I do think Bae is the least adept at it. But she's not bad too like at @8:34. 

@9:12, that slightly raw, slightly whiny sound from Lily is still there. Haewon again carries support on C5s but can sound more focused and stronger in coordination there. @9:32, phrased D5 carries support though. @11:30, Haewon trying to be a bit fuller, I'm not sure bout that quality though. Sounds like some slight tongue, not sure. It's not a big problem for now but I do notice it when she goes a bit fuller. It's a quirk. 

I realise I may have commented on Haewon a lot but she's the one that has quirks to comment on because Lily pretty much sounds fine throughout. Lily's doing well up to D5 in here, there weren't a lot of room for midbelts to shine through but she's not lacking in fullness so far that I'm hearing. There's some gap there between the two of them, Lily being the more efficient and consistent vocalist. Both have moments on D5s but Lily's definitely having an edge with fullness and comfort in the 5th octave.

Honestly, the rest of them all sound like W to A lmao. No one's completely shallow or stuck, but none have proper enough development too. If I had to decide based on this, I hear the green vest girl (I think it's Jiwoo) and Sullyoon having the most handle at some support, then Jinni and Kyujin then Bae. But yeah, knowing W to A, I wouldn't be surprised with some fluctuations. 

 

Just now, exodus05 said:

what is jessica/seo's edge to DIA jueun and monday?

Generally more consistent and reliable handle up to B4/C5 and development too. Jessica has her open vowel moments, Seohyun has her more grounded, fuller moments in the 5th octave. 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, 721su said:

@ZRH23 i have one more question, so their ranking would be like this? lily - aa, haewon - a-aa and the others all w-a? 

Tentatively, I guess. I'm sure Sullyoon, Kyujin and maybe Jinni are W to A, the other two a bigger maybe since I can't remember exactly what the benchmark is but they do sound better in this video.

1 hour ago, Devoux3817 said:

wow so many w-a, how does karina compare to them ?

I think Karina has shown a more consistent degree of support in studio and less stuck tendencies. But that's not consistent so on the regular, I'd say it's around the same. W to A is such a rather uninteresting category to do rankings in lmao a lot of inconsistencies make up for guesswork.

1 hour ago, Shourie said:

The one wearing a green vest is Kyujin. Jiwoo's the one wearing black(dark blue(?)) sweater.

Ooop okay that makes more sense actually, I remember Kyujin being the one that showed some support in singing before this too. So her and Sullyoon are definitely the prominent leads I'd say, with the closest to grasping support properly. 

54 minutes ago, Ryujin 0702 said:

Can Lily be a Mid AA now ?

 

Any more specific rankings for Lily and Haewon I'd rather wait for a couple more comebacks. All rookie idols of this kinda level have to take time to settle in when they just debuted, then we'll see. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

4 hours ago, ParkHyoLee said:

Looking forward to seeing Lily in a couple of years when she has more experience and has had time to settle into her voice  hopefully JYP doesn't give her any nonsense to mess up her approach because the foundation is so good already 

 

Building on this since people probably would also like some other examples of advanced head voice 

@1:05, 1:25, 3:14, 3:54 the head voice in the background is Cissy Houston, Whitney's mom, doing  advanced stuff with a classical head voice because she learned like a classical singer lol most pop singers also don't approach dynamics the way this head voice is done either

Ofc can't talk about advanced head voice without mentioning the highest level of head voice from Maria Callas lol. The aria starts at 20:51 but ik people like money notes so here's some timestamps: F#5 20:52, F#5 21:39,  21:51 G5,   22:19 Bb5, 23:19 G5,  Notice that actually good head voice doesn't only start picking up around the upper end of the fifth octave but is well-coordinated and huge throughout (when the singer wants to sing big ofc) even in the low fifth octave area.  Callas sings throughout this whole performance but ik most people don't have the interest in listening to 2 hours  
 

Contrasted with modern popular opera singers, like this queen of the night performance that comes up every so often in various singing spaces from Diana Damrau. Throughout she just doesn't deliver the same level of ring that Callas does and only really seems to pick up around the upper end of the fifth octave where she still doesn't have the same intensity + ring on the Bb5 at 2:40 compared to 22:19 from the above Callas clip. 2:36 is a D5 and comes across as the kind of low head voice you'd hear from normal pop singers tbh, just lacking in coordination and subsequently the necessary intensity to lead up to the money note. 2:35 is an F5 that also could be doing more. Im pretty certain her larynx actually isn't low enough ontop of the lacking chest voice presence to have the larger singing that'd be required for a good opera singer. 

 

Oh yeah, the difference definitely shows there. I don't listen to modern day opera music a lot so I'm going to treat it with a bit of generalisation, but yeah, I notice that some classical singers nowadays are sort of a couple of steps down compared to the likes of Maria Callas. Also, they didn't use the mic system back then like they're using now; all that projection over the orchestras and filling up the theater was probably from their voice alone (unless some microphones have been introduced by the early 20th century but even then it's not nearly as advanced as nowadays) but a lot of the younger opera singers, especially the crossovers too, have to use the microphone directly in front of them to sound bigger and more audible, I think that's sort of an indication. 

Well, it can't embed here but yeah, I think this new performance shows it. @0:31, she starts to pick up that 'ring' around G#5 but it's still quite the difference compared to Callas. It's not nearly as thick or embodied as a sound imo. Of course, as she is singing a full-on opera song in that setting throughout, she'll sound consistently more advanced than the good pop singers, and the way she is trained etc. still plays a part. But I think the G5 from Whitney still had more 'ring' and presence to it, and that's considering Whitney is not a full on classically trained singer. The other more coordinated head voice in pop can also probably successfully imitate what this girl does in this range, I wouldn't be surprised if Perrie or Yeonji plays around with it and lands a similar enough sound in the lower 5th octave. 

I'm assuming this piece calls for a more softer, less volume than the one that you showed from Callas but the argument still stands with how her G#5s sound here at @0:45 for example. 

 

7 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

Is sounding like Shin Yongjae a good thing or bad thing? thank you for the response!

It's neither lol just something I heard it's the tone and for the level he's at, the approach isn't necessarily bad.

Edited May 20, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

17 hours ago, NMSyamin said:

How's Eunji doing here? from 3:00

 

The Eb5 belt was more on her bright and light side as usual but it sounds like carries enough support in studio. I have a feeling that it's gonna be more high larynx-ish live though .

8 hours ago, caracalftw said:

Haewon's tone changes when she sings English. It's kinda more chesty.  Her mic's kidna broken tho

 

Sullyoon sounded great here! 
 

 

Okay, first off, I did not expect this song to be covered. I don't know if any other K-ppp group had covered this before (considering they changed the name too lmao) but they are BRAVE for performing this one live . It's two keys down from Beyonce's version but it's still a hard song ofc. The mic quality though... It's almost like they weren't made to for live  singing . 

Anyways secondly, it's not kinda more chesty, it is definitely chestier. To be honest, this is more chesty than what I usually here from idol vocalists, it's rare for a lighter soprano like her bringing up this kind of sound lmao. It's closer to how Eunji does it sometimes to really bring out the weight of her voice and it sounds drastically different, I feel that's the case with Haewon. I might be wrong though but it does sound like it. It's a bit unrefined because she doesn't have as much handle of it but tbh the coordination is heavier than Lily's bright one. 

The Eb5 on 'BOdy' doesn't sound supported tbh (in hindsight, I worded this a bit wrong lol. It still carries some support, I'm just not sure if I'd call it full on support due to the other reasons) and the mic quality isn't helping but I do think there's a bit more closing and pushing on the throat there but it's fine tbh, cuz if she can pull off an open Eb5s with that coordination then that's a big expectation that Proficients can't pull off . The C#5 in the 1st clip was also kinda pushed but I think it's acceptable. But her C5s and below are all supported. She's kinda out of breath (and potentially have a bit of a problem estimating her airflow) but since they're dancing throughout, it's not a big deal for now. She did great though yes. I don't want to comment on the others (Lily didn't do much here) because the mic quality is a bit too wonky to say. 

There's not much going on with the ABC song, Sullyoon sounds like she wants to go to Haewon's chesty path lol. Again, I hear her having more effort to support its just that the strength of her cords are not responding yet. Hopefully she continues because over time with that kind of sound may help.

Haewon has shown this type of coordination before in her Speechless cover (where she landed out open C#5s giving Solar a run lmao). I don't know if I'd associate that with her singing in English lol but I do think it's something that she still needs to figure out in balancing with her light mode.

Edited May 21, 2022 by ZRH23

[ZRH23]

47 minutes ago, BabyKBK said:

Interesting to hear light vs heavy sopranos together, what do you think about the possibility of Miyeon (and others) being undeveloped heavy ones @ZRH23

 

Nah heavier sopranos would be more obvious even without much basis in technique. An underdeveloped weightier soprano would sound more like Yuqi rather than Miyeon (I still am not sure of Yuqi's voice type, I'm just comparing to how different the sound would be).

[ZRH23]

38 minutes ago, jaedimps said:

Haewon sounds so good when she is using that chesty approach damn I wish she could be more consistent with it...  but she is still a rookie so she might change her approach in the future who knows 

So far it's a pretty conscious choice. And something that she pulls out semi-regularly. And it might not work with every song, which I think she knows but she'll need to improve her brighter approach. What she'll hopefully work on is refinement with both her approaches because it's got a lot of potential Bb4 - Eb5 wise. 

Plus it was a Beyonce song so I guess it made sense for her to bring out the raw chest vibes lmao. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by ZRH23