Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

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23 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

Day 3

Coming of Age! 

Timeless ^ ! (They sound better than the first day )

Not much to highlight except the supported E5s in Timeless for Hyolyn. 

18 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

Red Velvet Feel My Rhythm vocal showcase!

 

 

Their songs kinda sound the same for some reason this time lol. Wendy carried support on Eb5 (sounds the same tho) and Seulgi for those C5s (again sounds the same anyway). I thought Wendy was going to use her head voice more lol.

15 hours ago, thesullyoona said:

 

NMIXX sang live in their waiting room. I knew that Lily and Haewon do have solid support, but how about other members?

The others have some amount of support, they all try not to sound too cutesy or shallow but that doesn't necessarily mean they've developed their cords the way that it needs to for 'support'. I'd rather wait to hear the others sing in a different song lol. But Sullyoon doesn't sound bad in this song, like a fuller Sana.

5 hours ago, Karinas said:

I know this is beating a dead horse a bit,  but how do Bey and Celine compare to each other (both in their primes)? I’ve always thought Bey had a bit of an edge on her and should’ve been more in the “trinity”. 

 

Also, was Whitney better in every register than Beyoncé? I really like Bey’s head voice but I’m not sure how it compares to Whitney’s lol (and I think Bey takes the cake for lows?) 

Celine had always managed better vowels compared to Beyonce in her mixed, more consistent 'resonance' and open belts. This is partly due to their different styles of music, but basically Beyonce couldn't open up those kinds of vowels even if she wanted to. But Beyonce still had strong chest coordination and full sound throughout up to E5/F5, enough 'resonance' to pull through up there. She has moments of aggressive pushing and tension Eb5 - F5 but Celine usually thins out and squeezes her throat a bit more (high larynx basically) the higher in that area, plus some throaty moments. So it's arguable which one is better in that aspect. I'd say Celine has managed better belts and openness way more consistently, but Beyonce's extension does balance things out somewhat. 

They're both more on the inconsistent side for their lower range. I don't know much about Celine's lower range, there's some good moments Eb3 - F3 but there's also some other videos that show nor lowered larynx below F#3/F3s. Beyonce is also inconsistent but kind of less so?? When she puts in the effort, she can usually land out Eb3s, and on a couple of occasions D3/C#3, C3s are rare but they happen sometimes. Sometimes her sound below F3 is not the best either. Overall I'd say Beyonce has more of an edge even though both are not truly consistent to their best notes. 

Celine's head voice is pretty nice, and she's shown some moments of a bit more depth and fullness than the standard pop head voice (usually around F5 i think) but it's more comparable to like Ailee. Beyonce's head voice definitely trumps out on this aspect.

Beyonce not being in the 'trinity' has nothing to do with her technique, but the era that she was most popular in as well as the genre she was singing in was vastly different lmao. Beyonce was most popular in early 00s, the others were established already by the early 90s. Plus, Bey never had those big flashy diva ballads to fit in, her technique was not utilised the same way. There was no reason for her to be part of the trinity really. If you wanna take into account of people who have the same level of technique more or less, might as well throw Kelly into the mix lol.

Whitney's lows were the only register that wasn't THAT impressive but it's not bad, she doesn't use it much either so it's fine. There's not a huge gap down there or anything for her. 

Considering they're both sopranos, Whitney's head voice is better yea. Just better coordinated, brings more depth, darker vowels, larger sound. Beyonce's can get a bit rough on A5s and above, when using that coordination, and it's still not as heavy as Whitney's. 

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2 hours ago, RATY said:

May I ask more?  If you don't mind answering

Battle of Mezzo-soprano  Between Jojo's and Beyonce's.Who is better?

 

It's been discussed some time ago that Beyonce isn't a mezzo like what was assumed for years. She seems to be a relatively darker soprano. I don't remember what the estimation was exactly. So all things considered, Jojo has better developed registers for the lows and mixed, Beyonce's head voice is better but I'd say Jojo can do more with her voice in the extremes of her registers compared to Beyonce. They should both be around the same category I think. Maybe. 

1 hour ago, Blueish said:

Does anyone have any clips of Wheein supporting notes in the B4-C#5 range post-regression? Cause I was listening to this the other day and, well...

2:23 B4. Uhm, yeah that was bad. It carries support but imo it wouldn't make the cut. But okay, we can assume it was just an off moment. 

2:31 phrased C#5. Quite a bit better than the B4 but honestly nothing to write home about. I've seen some of the A-AA girlies pull off much better C#5s than this (Ningning, Kei, SeoJess...) so I'm honestly not impressed at all. 

From what I've seen she sounds pretty much the same as this in most of her other clips, and I do wonder if maybe she doesn't deserve the AA title anymore.

Yeah that clip wasn't pretty. But she's got more recent performances where her sustained C5s are usually passable. It's hardly impressive, but it's better than what SeoJess do consistently, and Kei also has problems sustaining C5s so it's right there on the AA category for Wheein.

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1 hour ago, Blueish said:

Is her coordination on those clips stronger than what Hwasa and Jea can pull off though?

Stronger?? Uh.. Not really lol. But it's not any worse. Hwasa's barely passable too, it's just throat pushing with loads of tongue tension, I haven't heard her successfully sustaining C5s lol (Kei's best moments are better than what Hwasa can do by comparison). Jea too, she's tight, nasal and generally weaker support around that area for AAs. At the very least, Wheein is relatively clean and light enough to go through C5s without too much tension, just a less grounded sound.

1 hour ago, RATY said:

I'm shocked that Beyonce' is Soprano  Her support for C3 is amazing, Even though it's rare!

She's not consistent with the C3s. The ones that are supported are very good indeed yes lmao but she's generally inconsistent below F3, even more so below Eb3. I'd still personally give her E3/Eb3 for supported range. 

I've noticed that certain singers with developed lower ranges can have a more unfocused sound and less volume in the lower extents of their registers if they are not putting in the effort needed. The same case goes for Tori Kelly who also has some unimpressive moments below F3 because she didn't focus enough there. It's somewhat of a flaw since truly established coordination down there should have a presence even if they're not 'trying' (Uji to some extent usually keeps the connection till E3s even if she's not going full out) but singers like Tori Kelly and Beyonce have moments where when they do put in the effort and focus, it's quite good. 

All things considered Beyonce does have a great lower range for a soprano. Not C3s, but more like E3/Eb3ish with some extra gems below that. She also doesn't have the best volume down there too but still, I'd say it's better than Mariah's or Lena etc.

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4 hours ago, Blueish said:

So then, why is Lee Hi ranked behind Wheein and Hwasa exactly? I mean, her support isn't as grounded as Hwasa's (especially ever since she lost a lot of weight and her voice thinned out), but she's still got B4 (which is C#5 for soprano standards) and E3 (which is F#3 for sopranos). Overall she just comes across as a more efficient vocalist than the other 2, simply cause all 3 of them are messy as hell but at least Lee Hi has a wider supported range. Dunno.

I'm not too familiar with Lee Hi so can't say, Baz can explain it better. But I think it's due to her lack of belting power and relatively soft sound throughout her range. I've never heard any sort of good placement from her nor any sign of 'resonance' yet, her vowels aren't really modified. She just supports the Bb4/B4, but can't really belt it out or have a bolder sound to it. I haven't listened too much to Lee Hi though so I could be off on some points. Yes, B4 is relatively high for a mezzo, but with her coordination, it doesn't really warrant much lol.

4 hours ago, RATY said:

Thanks for the explanation, it's really interesting and it's really a shame I missed discussions about her vocal type, I'm really shocked coz she's always called Mezzo-Soprano, even the university I'm studying is using her as an example.

You can search it back, it was some time last year I think?? Or earlier this year. Basically what sold it was how Beyonce sounded in her head voice. With how coordinated her head voice is, it's much clearer to hear what vocal fach she would be categorized as if she were trained classically (which is the most sure, original way for any vocal typing). Her sound with a coordinated head voice is just soprano, a heavier one but it's soprano. 

I thought she was a mezzo too, but it does make sense for her to be a soprano. Even compared to Jojo, Bey always had a LOT of ease up to Eb5s, where as Jojo sounds like she's putting in a lot of effort on C#5s already. Some things can't be amounted to just skill.

2 hours ago, Ripkaby said:

Hihi, I'm here to ask about my friend. Here is a short 1.5-min clip of him. link

Is he a baritone or tenor? Since he got different opinions from different music teachers. He seems to struggle a lot from Eb4 and his lower range doesn't seem to go that low. 

Does he also have any technique? (or how to improve) He's well-known in school for his emotional singing. I think some of his C4 and D4s sound relaxed, but can't tell if they carry support (I hope so tho), while the C4 at the end with the forced vibrato seemed strained.

Thanks!

I mean idk the ethics of asking bout other's voices so I hope he'd be okay with this lol . 

It's not really conclusive yet for me. He does struggle in the 4th octave, that last D4 and C4 took effort, and there's more intensity in the 3rd octave than what you'd expect from tenors. But his lows in the 2nd octave are meh. There is some presence there tho. The C3-D3s sound okay so.. He's either a baritone with an underdeveloped lower range, or an underdeveloped tenor in general lol. I'm leaning more towards baritone but if more singing in the lower range would give a clearer indication.

Technique wise, there's not much going on. There's no particularly bad habit going on, he's not very nasal or light or whiny, etc. He's singing in a more clean, full-tone way. But his cords aren't developed properly yet, there isn't really a proper sense of support. That's the only thing to improve (albeit it's a pretty big foundational thing) but overall he sounds fine! 

1 hour ago, exodus05 said:

I am confused too. Mrskinnyjeanz and some vocal channels classify her as Mezzo along with Meghan Trainor, Selena, Pink, Sara Bareilles, Miley, Elizabeth Gillies, JoJo

 

so who are the real mezzos?

Pink is most likely not a mezzo too. She sounds more like a soprano with a rougher mix, like Seo Moontaek but less dark and big. Miley and Jojo definitely mezzo, Elizabeth most likely, Sara Bareilles is questionable though I do hear more mezzo ish qualities. Dunno bout Meghan or Selena (not really relevant to her cause anyway).

29 minutes ago, spicyssamu said:

 

New youtube vocal ranking

thoughts?

I mean... I'm sure they keep up with the comments here so I'm not surprised to see some updates to the 'supported ranges' . The reasonings are messy as usual. Nothing new, we know that it's not exactly based on their own opinions entirely. Could've picked better videos for everyone though. Monday has better C5s for sure

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23 hours ago, G-me said:

So I only just checked out Chan from A.C.E. Seems like he has F#4/G4?

@1:56, @3:00 support is pretty nice throughout F4-G4. The phrased Bb4s weren't bad too

 

@0:07~@0:22, @1:10~@1:25, 2:13~2:38  His lows are not bad. Sounds like he can carry support down to D3 ish? @0:37 F#4. The later F#4s in the chorus are very gritty Shawn Mendes style but carried support lol.

 

nothing much but i actually like the C#3 @1:26. @1:19 F#4/G4s not bad

@0:20 cute runs

 

@0:32~@0:48 he's singing pretty light/softer here but still carried support on the F4/F#4s at the end

 

There's not much newer materials except for the older ones but he was kinda unimpressive back then. like here for instance. this was four years ago i believe

@1:34 he was kinda struggling on those F4s in the chorus and he was so much nasal here. seems like he improved a lot

He supports, I don't really like the F#4/G4 in Youngblood, it's mostly pushy and more on the gritty side. The best clip is the third one, the C#3 has a bit of lowered larynx but not bad. I'm not too impressed by how he does on the Snowman song lmao. I'd wager F4/F#4 is safer for now, another Average to add to the list.

8 hours ago, NMSyamin said:

Now i remember why people comparing Hyorin and Eunji during her debut

 

Actually she doesn't sound that different from now. Eunji was just slightly more grounded, a bit less floaty with her sound back then but she can still go into this mode if she wanted to nowadays. She was a bit tighter on the Eb5s too.

8 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

Solji didn't come to play in 2022

I'd say the D5s carry support here @ZRH23

She was singing with more chest in this one, I like it. There's a bit of grittiness around B4 and above that, maybe she wasn't fully warmed up, sounds like a TV show. But I'm not that impressed by the D5s, they're very quick and passing but I don't hear the same amount of fullness retained up there. It's not strained ofc but there's some drop of support, it's more towards relaxed and carry some amount of support rather than fully solid. She still lacks the development for that it seems. But she sounds good in this, moments of coordination like this is why she's that high up on AA despite the vowels. 

6 hours ago, RATY said:

Sungjae is not a baritone, so what's his rank?

 @2.51 E4

@2.45 E4 @2.48 G4 @2.51 G#4 @3.49 F4 @4.29F4 

 

@0.13,@0.18 F#4 

@0.3 F#4 

 

 

I'd still say he's more of a high Average. There's some pushiness issues here and there but he's mostly fine up to F#4. Sungjae still has one of the fuller midrange in Average, a strong connection to breath support and also his lower range gives him a good boost too lol. His tenor revelation makes the Bb2/B2s more impressive. I like the last clip, very tenor sound in the midrange rather than trying to darken his tone too much. I'd say he'd rank better compared to Baekho or Youngjae maybe.

13 minutes ago, Aryu said:

Hi I never post in this thread despite singing all my life lol anyway, Beyonce really has such a solid range. She can definitely go lower than most sopranos, though, so I always thought of her as mezzo? True first sopranos simply can't go very low, at least in my experience. Even if not super supported, Beyonce can reach those notes to an extent.

Maybe her vocal color just throws me off, though.

Yeah i get it, the vocal color thing totally threw me off too. Her mixing style is also a bit particular, more of an RnB gritty style where she kinda compresses her sound so it's like more intense than it should be for a usual soprano. But that's the result of her technique lol. It's not impossible for sopranos, even light ones, to have great lows. Natalie Weiss is more of a light soprano, but phrase C#3s fuller than most mezzo lmao. Tori Kelly can also retain that full sound down to D3 sometimes even tho obv being light naturally. They may lack the affinity for it as a whole vocal type, but there are individuals who certainly have a natural ease to it even for a soprano.

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14 hours ago, himi said:

I agree. He's safely average for now. So I did a bit more digging into the group. Seems like they have 3 vocalists than can support properly

 

From left to right: Chan, Jun, Donghun

Chan: @0:23 I think he dipped into Eb3s a few times here seems like he can handle that well. @0:57 F4/F#4 in the chorus were fine. @1:03 The G#4 wasn't bad too. @2:51 F4-F#4-G#4

Jun: @0:47 supported F4. @1:29 Eb3 carried support. Could be way better though. @1:50 he also can handle F4/F#4. @2:43 sustained F4

Donghun: @0:53 @1:05 he can also support F4 but something's going on with his tongue. Don't know if it's an issue of his or it's the language. @2:09 pushed Bb4. @2:23 G#4 was also quite pushed but not bad.

 

From left to right:

First guy: Donghun

Second guy: Jun

Fourth guy: Chan

 

@1:00 A bit into his nose but he still did fine up to F#4 lol. @1:27 I like Donghun's F#4 that's the best one I've heard among them. @1:38 slightly pushed on the F#4. @1:52 G#4 really not bad and then F#4 afterwards was nice. @2:16 not sure who's singing the loudest one and who's harmonizing here lmao. @3:02 a bit pushy on those F#4s. @3:18 Chan was also doing not bad on those F#4s. Lol at the other two going off with those adlibs afterwards he got drowned.

 

I think they all are safely average and can handle F#4 ish. And they all sound kinda the same level. Not sure how they'd rank against each other. Donghun might be a little better? Idk. But pretty interesting group. They don't exactly have any standouts but having 3 vocalists that can support well is pretty rare. At least in 3rd/4th gen. The last time we had was NCT 127? I'm barely anyoned talk bout them (or maybe I just didn't pay attention before this lol)

All 3 can have the basis for support..  But it all goes to messy land from there lol.

For the first video, I do hear Donghun having some tongue tension, the rest have some moments too but his is more consistent. @0.50, kinda pitchy, they all have some off pitch moments but his is more obvious to me. Also, projecting through the nose, he's quite stuck. But he's also the one that puts the more effort into going for a more 'belty' sound. He's not handling it properly though so it's mostly just chest pulling and pushing. 

Jun sounds the most stylistic, with that 'smoky' style sound throughout. He's also nasal here and there. The F#4/F4s in the chorus are fine but nothing impressive about them either. The high notes are . Quite aggressive on them. 

Chan is the cleanest out of them, but he also has moments of going into the nose and some throatiness here and there. But his approach is the least messy, his mixing is cleaner on the G#4s and below. 

For the second song, Donghun sounds cleaner here. @1.27, wouldn't say there's anything impressive bout the F#4, the placement could be much better, it sounds a bit stuck still. He's pushing on the chorus parts. @1.52, I like his phrased G#4 better than Jun, it's more relaxed and less aggressive. Not bad. The F#4 is a bit pushed still. @3.03, F#4s have some pushed quality to it but it's not too bad as far as belting goes. He doesn't have the muscles to handle that intensity. 

Jun puts in the most effort for that 'belty' sound but it just comes off as aggressive to his cords for me lol. The F#4s aren't bad projection wise, I think he's emulating JYJ too. But there's a degree of pushed and roughness to them. He's also narrower on some passages. And also more nasal. @1.40, yeah he likes to go for the belts. It's not bad but it's not good, basically it's more aggressive than he can handle and I think it's emulating JYJ'S style of vowels. The G#4 was also tight and stuck. He's the pushiest and most aggressive with his approach, kinda improperly going for chesty sound. It's not just slightly pushed for the F#4s, it's quite pushed compared to the others.

Chan doesn't do a lot in this, is he not the main main vocalist? @2.16, I hear Chan on the F#4s, I don't hear the harmonies lmao. He's also pushing on the F#4s but his coordination isnt as aggressive as Jun. The support is there but I do think it's not as clean as the previous videos. @3.18, projected through his nose, it's not as strong as Donghun's F#4s, pretty meh. The high note harmonies are messy lmao. 

The other two also have some support tho I can't hear clearly. The middle one especially, I think I hear some not bad F#4s too. 

Basically, they're all kinda messy averages lmao. I'd say Jun is the messiest, I can't tell between the other two yet. They should all be around mid-average or so. Yes, it's rare for a group to have that many who can support, but it's kinda a shame that nobody's actually developed more than the foundations lol.

3 hours ago, exodus05 said:

it is so weird that Jaehyun has a low voice but is very soft.

I do think that he thinks he's a baritone. There's a reason why he barely ever sings above D4s or phrased E4s when on his own. 

3 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

is wendy eb5 supported ? 4:21 how do you think all of them do ? @ZRH23

 

 

@4.21, they all carry support. That's one of Wendy's best moments recently belting wise lol, she's putting in more effort than just floppy light coordination. Also, that head voice was probably the best I've heard from her in that range, definitely fuller than usual. 

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On 3/24/2022 at 9:30 PM, himi said:

 

@21:51 well even Doyoung said Jaehyun has a baritone range. Pretty sure Jaehyun thinks that himself as well lol. Performances aside, they talked a lot about vocals and their training in the interview. Kinda interesting

 

As far as I'm aware Chan and Donghun are the main vocals. They even said it themselves. But for some reasons, it's always Donghun and Jun who do the more challenging part and Chan always kinda stay in his mid range lol (which also made it hard for me to find some notable moments from him). I guess the group prefer the intense aggressive belts from those two lmaoooo. Also, the second vid was much older than the rest (around 2018 I think), which I guess makes sense why he's less clean in that. And after much listening I'm kinda more inclined to say Chan > Donghun. He just sounds cleaner overall. Jun seems the weakest among the three

 

Back to this vid again to listen to the others. @0:45 Byeongkwan, the middle guy from the last vid you mentioned. Those F4s are not bad at all. @2:13 even the F#4/G4s lol. Why does he sound like he could also be average or so lol. So yeah comparing Donghun @0:53 and Jun @1:09 to Chan @1:57. Chan sounded much cleaner and was less pushing on those F#4/G4

 

Byeongkwan @0:22 slightly off there lol. @1:08 Chan's doing well in his mid range. @1:18 he also has that tendency to go rough at times like the other two vocalists lol but not as harsh. @2:55 those G#4s not bad and I like the quick G4 at the end

 

Chan is a bit into the nose in this but I'd still say better overall than the others. Couple of F#4s at @1:51 and in the chorus

Yeah, Byeongkwan can support, it's only slightly less refined as the others but definitely more established than like, Treasure guys or Hybe vocalists. Jun and Donghun are pushy land I see. So Chan is the cleanest and least messy out of them yea, he sounds somewhere like mid-high ish Average. Nothing much going on aside from consistent support and minimal tension in his midrange. The rest are Mid or Low Averages. 

On 3/24/2022 at 10:22 PM, Renner said:

Would you say that Wendy is starting to get a better handle on Eb5's lately? I noticed it after... Like Water era-ish it's been a bit more consistent than usual albeit mostly light. Most of the Eb5's in that one LIVE of her sounds passable as well, I think I've posted it here before.

 0:52 Eb5 not bad at all, better than Taeyeon's (her greedy Eb5 specifically I'm well aware she has much more impressive Eb5's lol)

4:02 it sounds better than her previous attempt.

3:47

Mmm, thing is Wendy has always had good mixing and placement. So, I'm not sure if she's been working on it or is she just doing her usual thing with some better moments lol. Haven't listened to her enough but I don't hear anything significant at all. The Eb5s carry support yeah. It sounds more like she's making sure she's not raising the larynx (like Eunji) or pushing too hard, so she retains the breath support. It's not really something new to her, but I mean, it is possible that she's being more aware on that. Still, they're all just light (including the Feel The Rhythm) except for the ones in In My Dreams so it's not much of a big deal for me yet. 

On 3/24/2022 at 11:23 PM, loveablejoy said:

What do y'all think of Haewon here? 

I'm no vocal expert but I have a question but I guess I'll come back later.

She barely had lines and all of them were in a simple range, there's just nothing to point out on. 

23 hours ago, Taeganger09 said:

 

Not Wendy trying to catch up & edge out my gurlie Taeyeon omg   when I want my gurlie to surpass Luna & Lina. Bich better work her azz off in this fierce competition for SM best female vocalist title 

Nahhh, even if Wendy can handle Eb5s consistently, unless she's fixing the whininess and tendency to project straight into her nose 90% of the time, I'd still put her below Taeyeon. It's not like Taeyeon doesn't have her share of Eb5s. It would only be a consideration if Wendy actually starts to go bolder and stronger on her belts with more effort on proper projection (something highly unlikely anyway) THEN we're talking lmao.

22 hours ago, Travis70324310 said:

Hello, I wanted to know your thoughts on the three member group Kandis. Their stage names are Hello, Nine and Seoul (lol) and they are ex-mystic trainees, they used to do a lot of covers along with some members of Billlie before they all left in 2019. I have asked a youtuber and they stated all of them can support with Hello being the best of the three, I just want a second opinion on this. Thanks                                                                                                                                                

All 3 have some support, Seoul being the least established and most stuck. It sounds more like Joy/Nayeon kind of stuck and only slightly more developed sound. I wouldn't say Hello is the best one, she's also having her stuck issues and most of the notes go into her nose. She sounds like Yeonjung/Lazy Taeyeon tone-wise ngl, I can see why she'd pick that song. She did fine till A4, Bb4/B4 are more stuck but they have enough support for that limited sound. Nine is the cleanest one and has the more forward sound compared to the others, there's a more grounded quality throughout. But there's tongue tension, I'm not sure if that's due to the language (why she'd pick a XTina song in Spanish of all things) or if that's a usual problem for her. She does fine up to Bb4/B4, this is the best one out of the three. They all have obvious problems C5 and above though.

22 hours ago, NMSyamin said:

Is this head voice? 2:45

 

Nope, sounds more disconnected to me. It's her falsetto. 

21 hours ago, himi said:

basically instead of properly projecting his voice forward, Doyoung just belt his notes inwards, at the back of his throat and sometimes into the nose. It gives that stuck, constricted sound.

 

@3:05 compare this very stuck G#4 
 

to this @0:22 probably his best G#4 ever. pre-debut Doyoung had a way better forward sound You can hear it being "free" and not constricted unlike the first vid, where he almost always sound like that throughout his mixed these days. If he could bring this sound up to Bb4/B4 then I would say Doyoung > Taeil but as of now I don't see him doing any better.

It's not just the stuck issue, he's also soft . Being soft in the G#4 - Bb4 range where his development and support isn't THAT great yet (as opposed to like Wendy) leads to things like pitch issues, voice cracks, lack of stronger cord engagement and etc. That's why he's struggling so much up there. 

19 hours ago, exodus05 said:

Thank you!! 

Why does it seems like he is the only one with this habit  

or are there any?

There are singers with some stuck issues similar to him, but not in AA (at least not as obvious, and they have some control). Usually it appears in the Average gang where messy wanna-be belters go lol. I suppose Jongho comes into mind, but he's more throaty and chesty. 

18 minutes ago, seulgisbae said:

Red Velvet In My Dreams Live

the live stage sounded messy with the pre recorded track so for once i’ll use a mr removed video

2:51 HIGHLIGHT

I'm more surprised that they did a live of this song so fast lmao. It's not that clear (I prefer the live stage better, this is too muffled) but she sounds fine to me, there's some support carried on those Eb5s yea and it's not just soft. I like the head voice better.

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1 hour ago, thesullyoona said:

Another vocal showcase from NMIXX. What do you guys think?

I'm waiting for these girls to sing anything else lmao. They did good as usual. Haewon handled phrased C5s just fine, Lily did as usual. Ngl Sullyoon sounds  cleaner up to C#5/D5 than Nayeon ever did, even if it's a bit stuck sometimes. Hopefully they'll cover something soon. 

1 hour ago, loveablejoy said:

...if you don't might me asking....who's the greedy one?

He's talking bout the Greedy song . The Eb5 that Wendy sang on the live that I was replying to was from the song Greedy. 

[ZRH23]

 

1 hour ago, BabyKBK said:

Is it a thing for heavy soprano voices to sing brighter in studio and be darker live? I've noticed Solji does this a lot in her comeback

Does this have any effect on technique or is it just mainly a change in placement? (the live is a semitone lower)

I don't notice any obvious change in placement or approach. It's only marginally brighter in the studio, and she's not going darker in the live version, it's just her normal mixing. I wouldn't even call it particularly chesty for her either. Either way, that small change is normal and definitely not an exclusive trait of a voice subtype lol. Like I said, the difference between the studio and live one is very little technique wise, she was probably just a bit brighter to hit the notes easier. It's normal for people to not go exactly the same way each time. 

BTW, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but those D5s and C5s are some of the better ones I've heard from her this year. They carry support and it's not just relaxed. C5 area is also cleaner and not that usual slightly tight, pushy sound of [email protected], that's one of her best moments I've heard recently lmao. I think that's the more important thing to note on lol. 

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On 3/28/2022 at 10:41 PM, elseelseelse2 said:

Hi, I saw someone say that Jongho has a supported head voice and I feel like this is not true. They said that his head voice is supported in these clips:

 

 I would also like to ask in general what supported head voice for men sounds like. Thank you!

1st clips, those are B5-A5-G5 lol. Definitely not supported, there's a pretty high larynx but it's quite a stretch for a tenor so all things considered he has some ease I guess. And it's a head voice too instead of a floppy falsetto so although it's quite pushed, the tonality is stronger than usual up there. It's not bad for the range. 

2nd clip, are people seriously trying to use this as an example?? Lmao. Not only is he trying to imitate that piece but also as an orangutan, there's no way it would be remotely proper to analyse it seriously lol. I'm guessing B5/C6 is his limit because he goes flat around there and any get any higher. 

He has a connected head voice and maybe, a big maybe, he might have some amount of development in the lower 5th (D5 or so) or upper 4th, considering he's able to push his way through the upper 5th but I don't know if it would have enough support being carried. Plus knowing how he is, I'm not surprised if he only goes on head voice to do some big flashy Dimash style stuff just for the range of it lol so I wouldn't put much notice on it. Unless he has some examples in the relatively lower range, then I'd just say these definitely don't prove anything lol. 

On 3/28/2022 at 11:43 PM, NMSyamin said:

How's she doing here, this is rehealsal btw. Is there any different apart from released one?

1:37

 

She went sharp on the E5. Otherwise no difference technique wise, nice mixing but still ungrounded and floaty on the Eb5.

On 3/29/2022 at 3:50 AM, Tsabar said:

@ZRH23 What do you think of stary kidz Seungim ? can he support ? would he make it to w-a ? (someone fought/talked to me about him so I am curious)

3:16 E3, 4:11, 4:19 E4s, 5:03, 5:09, 5:16 F4s, 9:42 D3 (some 2nd octave notes before that but I don't think it matters in his case), 9:52 C#4/D4, 1:12 F#4.

0:26 Eb4, 0:52 F4, 1:19 D4

I personally thought he is shallow without anything that notable, do correct me if I am wrong.

There's some support sure, but he gets really stuck really early on and it gets tenser starting from Eb4s. F4s carry some support but are beyond stuck lol. I don't really know what exactly would be the threshold for W to A. If we're comparing him to JK then they'd be around the same maybe. JK is not as stuck but Seungmin has a relatively more grounded sound though a bit improper. Either way, it's definitely on the lower side of the scale. He's below like Treasure's main and such.

On 3/29/2022 at 8:41 AM, RATY said:

Most of the Eb5s in the clip seem to be supported but light 

I want to see the recording of In My Dream

Geez now it feels like light is an understatement lol. To be fair, I'm hoping this is the style the song calls for in general lol. Most of her singing are very borderline mixed, it's much more towards head voice than it is to chest. So the sound's light and soft and just one small break away from being a head voice. The climax Eb5 got into her nose everytime it's funny how she repeats them over an over but it's still projected into her nose. I wouldn't want to include it in her 'supported' Eb5s, it's very limited and not impressive lmao. I'd still prefer Eunji's even floatier Eb5s. But I did like the head voice G5s.

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8 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

Thank you! That was my feeling that people were overselling Jongho's abilities (as usual...). What would be a good example of a tenor supporting their head voice?

Also, I know he's been discussed in the thread before: what are Oneus' Seoho's strengths and weaknesses as a vocalist? What would he need to improve on to move up? I know he sings quite lightly and can become very soft and is in the average tier.

A good example? The best examples that I can give for the vocalists nowadays would be Park Hyoshin and Jung Dongha. Mitch from Pentatonix also has a good head voice, just lighter by comparison. Tenors supporting their head voice is rarer in comparison to the sopranos, and it's fairly obvious when they support or they don't. 

@4.25, this would be an example of a male head voice with some coordination to it. Ofc, PHS also has a lot of good examples but not ones I can immediately search for right now so lol. 

If you're wondering bout idols, Eunkwang and Jinho both have shown some attempt at emulating 'operatic' sound and while it's obviously not going to be proper by those standards, it's better than usual for contemporary tenors. 

@0.23 and @0.40 up to the Eb5. Unfortunately, Jinho is the kind to show impressive vocals at certain times, while showing a more underwhelming performance most of the time so I'm not entirely sure of his capabilities lmao. 

36 minutes ago, exodus05 said:

Hello guys, I hope I wont get clowned for this but what is the Current Wheein's edge to Boa & Minseo since Wheein became lighter and has stuck moments. Minseo seems more cleaner and also has better C5s, Boa seems to have better lows, agility & head voice too

Just a matter of development and how strong the cords are doing around B4/C5. I'm not sure I agree on Minseo being cleaner and having better C5s, she's more soft than Wheein most of the time. Boa, like we've mentioned before, generally has an underwhelming sound throughout her midrange. Her head voice isn't too big of an advantage, agility isn't something I'd really take as important here (plus, again not that great) and only her lows really stand out but seeing as how messy she can Bb4 - C5, she's arguably more limited. 

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5 hours ago, exodus05 said:

Minseo is fuller here right? and how good is the C5 climax here 3:29? Thank you

That being said, Minseo is fuller in her midrange than Wheein yea. Questionable moments for B4/C5 (she pushes and the development there can be a bit lacking when she wants to go for more power) but she's clean and full for the rest, with some okay moments with phrasings above. Wheein barely has anything other than not bad phrases in the 5th octavec (which also get kinda whiny) and the sound that she has is more like leftover ease and development from her previous years. It's very minimal. I think I'll keep an eye and listen back a bit more to see if it's enough for AA, along with the other 2 lower ones.

Rankings probably won't change (unless they're worse than we remembered) but at least it gives a more clear understanding cuz the high A-AAs like Minseo and Kei can have way better moments (Kei has some nice phrased C5s with good placement in that Taeyeon cover and has some degree of support retained C#5/D5 while phrasing despite the stuckness). 

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33 minutes ago, NMSyamin said:

Is there any difference between this live and studio version?

 

until 3:45

The difference is the stage version is a semitone lower. Both versions were good. The first one had some supported Eb5s but varying degrees as always depending on how floaty she lets it be but for the most part it's supported. @3.11, I like the Eb5s and F5 in the first one.

The second one had D5s and they were all supported nicely. 

2 hours ago, RATY said:

 

?

Their rookieness is showing ngl. They all sound a bit awkward and unsure of how to approach it properly like they might want it too. @2.45, Boram and Sejeong still sound way fuller than Lily in parts like this. But Lily does have better moments than this so it makes me think it's the rookie state. Haewon's also a bit awkward with that one C5. Sullyoon is a lot more into her nose than she was in O.O but there was some support yea. Both her and Kyujin show support but not too strong.

Overall, I'd wait for another comeback or more covers before we analyse them critically. They're obv still very new.

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On 4/2/2022 at 3:57 PM, Tinastory16 said:

Hello,

New live performance of Nct Dream, any thoughts about Haechan, Chenle, Renjun and Mark ?

Nothing new, they all sounded the same as always .

On 4/2/2022 at 2:29 PM, loveablejoy said:

Does anyone in STAYC supports? I'm surprised some people say they don't. I have been watching some of their videos especially their "Bang Bang" cover. 

 

They don't support but they have decent pitch and tonality, those alone can get you far enough that it'll sound nice to the ears without necessarily having the best technique. 

7 hours ago, Dangerous Beauty said:

Hello, I am a newcomer here. May I ask about Yuju's chest coordination and development since her regression.

Are her vocal cords, chest coordination, projection strong as she used to be in her prime in case she sings not 'stylistically'.

Furthermore, if she is consistent on F#3/G3-C#5-F#5-G5 with out resonance or she can just produce very open notes only, will she considered above Solar or back to her prime at AA-P?

No, I wouldn't say she's at the same level of coordination. Yuju's development had always been a bit iffy, kinda inconsistent here and there as far as the quality goes but the best quality was her placement and openness, which made up for the other inconsistencies. But now her placement had drastically changed, and her cords are not quite as strong when trying to deliver the same amount of power as she used to.

There were a couple of times in 2020 where she tried to belt out her C#5s the same as she did in 2016-ish era but it ended up a bit too pushed and borderline. This is probably because Yuju has been so used to singing in a more nasal, stuck placement and not bothering to project her sound above C5 more, which means she's been engaging with her cords much less than she would've been if she at least continued belting belting. When she's comfortable with being nasal, it's hard to go back to the intensity that she had before, since projecting through her nose is relatively easier on the cords. 

If Yuju can actually produce open notes consistently, and improved her habits in the midrange, then maybe she'd be above Solar and such. Because her 'resonance' had always been cleaner than the rest of the AAs when she could do it even if she wasn't in her tip-top condition (like 2017/2018) but she wasn't too consistent with it and she struggled alot with certain vowels. Her nasality and stuckness being so present like that would also not change her rank a lot. I'd only sort of discount a vocalists' questionable habits if they show that those habits are just stylistic and they can get out of it if they wanted to (like Taeyeon's lazy mode) but even then it still has to be taken into account. 

3 hours ago, sergel said:

I’m wondering how difficult harmonies are to pull off, and how much an indicator are they for vocal technique? 
 

There are singers and groups known for it like Pentatonix, or TTS where all the members are decent vocally

 

But then there are groups I’ve heard which sound decent harmonizing but don’t seem that strong individually. Is it kind of a different skill set to individually singing well?

 

48 minutes ago, BabyKBK said:

 

90% of pop/kpop harmonies are quite simple. Harmonising is actually quite an easy skill, it only requires a good grasp of pitch, good coordination with your other members and basic musical knowledge. Anyone with alright pitch could harmonise with practice.

Oftentimes kpop groups work with composers/pianists/instructors to break down their harmonies first and learn separate parts before combining it. When you learn individually, it's not really complicated.

1:50 Solar, Wheein and Hwasa working with someone to learn their parts individually first before combining them together. 

Ofc girl group vocalists that harmonise every song would find it easy, they know each other very well and have practice. 

 

I wouldn't say harmonising is an easy skill, just a more detached one from vocal techniques specifically. But it's an important skill as a singer, one that a lot of technically good singers still don't have that much of a grasp on. People who can harmonise on the spot means that they have quite good ears for the music and melody, so they can just match it on the spot or even add some flair to it if they wanted to. Only the more advanced singers in kpop manage to do it on the fly (Ailee, Lena Park etc. have very good ears) meanwhile the usual AAs can most probably get messy during improvisations. 

But again, it's more of a separate skill and needs a lot of practice and experience as well. Lovelyz is a group with pretty tight harmonies, but only Kei has a proper grasp at support. It's not an easy skill per se, but technique it's also important since it practices your pitch and how you understand a song basically.

[ZRH23]

21 hours ago, Blueish said:

Thoughts on Ava Max? 

She seems to have the hang of C5s with some decent-ish moments on the C#5-Eb5 range. Also her head voice sounded supported in the album range video.

Her approach is also lowkey quite clean sans for the pitchiness here and there (mostly notable in the last video) + some stylistic quirks.

The last video is probably the best to analyze since it's all acoustic + 100% live, although the notes aren't noted. I'm curious to hear you guys' thoughts. 

I disagree with her approach being quite clean, her main issue is that tongue tension of hers. She always has that Xtina-ish sound, her tongue is kinda rolled back most of the time. Also she usual just projects into her nose, she's quite stuck with her placement. 

But yea Ava can support (the analysis in the desc of the vocal range video is lmao) but I haven't noticed any good belts from her. She sounds much more like an Average vocalist to me. There's some okay moments on Bb4/B4, too few C5s for me to judge properly but I wouldn't be surprise if there's a degree of support going on but considering that she can inconsistently push her way lower than that, I wouldn't say she's a very conscious or advanced vocalist. 

21 hours ago, Blueish said:

A couple head voice notes in this clip.

Her head voice clips sounds pretty meh to me, I don't hear any substantial support. The connection isn't the best too, it's closer to falsetto ish most of the time. 

19 hours ago, grid said:

thank you for you respond and didn't solar produces resonance too ? afaik she is pretty consistent at producing resonance ?

Not that consistent no, and most of the time it's pushed. There's only a few moments where I'd consider her notes to be 'resonant', the rest are mostly bright pushing. She pulls on her chest voice but her actual chest coordination isnt that good lol most of the time there isn't a good roundness to it, openness is questionable too. 

7 hours ago, yerivera said:

Anyways new-ish vocal content from Minimani

They covered the Big Mama song again

 They also performed 2 of their own songs and I’m really curious about the first one since I feel like it leans in to more of their trot image/identity as a group and I know trot kinda requires certain stylistic quirks like tightening up the throat and raising or lowering the larynx etc. I’m curious if support was still present? 

Also it’s Rin in black and white, Soohyun in purple and SongE in the coat

Yea if I recall correctly, Rin supports the best, then SongE and then Soohyun is more behind. The same goes for these as well.

1st video: @1.33, not bad D5s, she's clearly has the fullest approach out of the 3. But I haven't enough in this area for me to know for sure if her limit is B4, the phrased C5 before isn't bad tho there's some pushing. @2.18, the C5s aren't bad at all ngl. I'd say it carries support, SongE's putting in the effort.

There's still support in the trot songs. Being able to support just builds and retains muscle memory in your cords, it's difficult to actually lose that sense once you've gotten used to it. Ofc it's just more limited and not the usual sound you'd expect.

1 hour ago, exodus05 said:

Hello, is wheein reduced to AAA right? is she below Kei/Minseo? or now the highest ?

There's a high chance yes. We'd have to hear again how all 4 of them (the lower AAS) do currently and compare. Because right now there's quite a big gap between them and Sejeong/Boram. But if they are ranked down... Idk. Kei's quite close to being AA, I don't see how any of them would be a closer match per se. I might be off though we'll see. I'd say Wheein at least may be lower than Kei. 

[ZRH23]

3 hours ago, RATY said:

@ZRH23

If there was a ranking, who would you choose in front , Between Taeil and Doyoung ? I've seen many people say that they can both be interchangeable.

Taeil seems to be more advanced in D3-G4/G#4. Although he was mostly supported by tight and whiny,He lacks consistent performance in A4 right now
Doyoung also lacked the development of Chest voice and sometimes when he used the belt,The sound was projected back into his throat. but he did better than Taeil when using the phrase G4-A4 and the development of the Bb4 area

Not sure if you kept with previous discussions, but Taeil's issues are less severe in general compared to Doyoung. The lack of chest development and limitation to a soft, stuck sound is something that Taeil doesn't struggle with. I wouldn't say Doyoung phrases G4 - A4 better now, there were some moments where he did but most times, he's not consistent and goes to soft. Taeil showed way better moments F#4 - A4 in their last concert, even if his issues are pertaining. There's a gap in between them, though it's not small I wouldn't say they're right next to each other. 

1 hour ago, Dangerous Beauty said:

Did  YUJU do OK-ish in this most recent performance?

I think she can switch from a nasal mode into a normal mode at a certain degree. BTW, I am happy that she tries to belt above C5.

 

Nah nothing impressive here unfortunately. The D5 was kinda messy. It's not even about giving that effort, I don't think she can handle it with more intensity unless she practices first. There's support sure up to the phrased C5ish but she's still stuck and meh.

14 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

Bumping this 

There's really nothing new bout it so.. The E5 was fine but wasn't her best, she generally tried harder in her Sistar days throughout. 

[ZRH23]

9 hours ago, noprinterjustfax said:

 

I dont know if it can change anything, but mnet actually made her high notes sound way less powerful from the raw version. 

Where's the raw version then? I wouldn't think much bout it since she was dancing. 

[ZRH23]

10 hours ago, himi said:

that phrased C#5 by Haewon at the start isn't bad at all.

Never heard that one before, that's nice. I like this better than the Step Back one which is a little too light and passing but then again she was barely trying so. 

7 hours ago, Blueish said:

Not surprising considering most of her predebut C#5s were more than just fine. 

Plus these post-debut clips:

C#5 - B4 - C5. Easily supported imo. 

A bit unrefined on the C5s at 0:08 but they still were supported imo. The D5 right after wasn't bad at all either. Another C5 at 0:16. 

The pitch was all over the place here but I mean it peaked at Eb5 and she handled that pretty well. 

Another C#5 at 0:03 also supported imo.

Thanks for correcting me! She does have iffy moments above A4 which is why I'm sceptical about her rank but yeah she can also do decently at times. 

Her best moments is when she goes for that chestier-ish sound like the 1st and 2nd clip. It's similar to how Kei does it, except her notes on and above C5 are not as stuck so far though she does still have some nasal problems here and there. It kinda threw me off a bit because her tone can really vary lol. You have the floppy light mode like when she sang Universe, then there's the belty one like  in those clips.

Haewon seems to have control over it but I still do think she falls under the rookie curse as well, there are some parts where her vowels/approach are just not quite right yet (like when she sang Speechless on Weekly Idol or even the Blackpink cover was a lil rough and pushy). We'll see how she does later on. Hopefully her and Lily only become more settled in with the good habits lmao.

6 hours ago, Sarah Oon said:

@BAZISSINO@ZRH23 This is totally random, but would you still put Adele over Seulgi now that Seulgi had a reanalysis? 

I mean... They're both vastly different singers and even different voice types so ranking one over the other is . I don't think their ranking each other is relevant tbh. But Adele isn't that messy imo up to A4ish she can the notes better than the most Average sopranos. They both have different quirks too so. 

5 hours ago, jeong jaehyuns boyfriend said:

Don't mind me, im just gonna drop this throwback here..

 

Tbh she never sounded that different, it's not like it's a rare moment of resonance. Wendy just did her usual thing except it didn't go into her nose as much and the throat is a bit more open but it's nothing she hasn't done in other occasions imo. It's the same case as Taeyeon's C5 (obv less projected still) in that duet thing, I feel like what helped the most was the vibrato lmao but it wasn't their most impressive note.

I still think the closest she had to resonance would be in her KOMS performances, but usually there's some tongue issues getting in the way. 

5 hours ago, grid said:

is the gap between jaehyun and xiaojun bigger than the gap between taeil and doyoung?

Mmm never thought bout this actually haha. I'd have to listen Xiaojun again, he's also a bit inconsistent overall really.

1 hour ago, himi said:

Interesting. Never seen the Step Back one. That was nice. She def can handle C5 at least and better than the other A girls. It's looking like she might actually be higher than average 

Right now, it's only the rookie issues that makes it a bit hard to judge on what their exact level could be. Haewon and Lily both have good moments but also meh moments. Lily has that fullness issue that's quite obvious sometimes, Haewon has nasality and also issues with her approach sometimes. But they both should at least be above the Averages. In their best moments they both can go a little higher (Lily has better moments so far imo but Haewon has shown better vowels so that's nice). There's at least a minimum ranking for them (in the category) imo but I don't wanna go over myself haha. 

But yeah both shows rookie issues that would make them a bit too inconsistent for now. 

[ZRH23]

19 hours ago, GetRapper said:

Many on Twitter are saying that now that Huh Yunjin is debuting with LE SSERAFIM that she is already one of the best 4th Gen gg vocalists, is there a good analysis of her vocal abilities online anywhere or any good examples to back this up?

The best I've heard from her would the Into The New World cover she did in Produce 48, and even then her mixed above C5 wasn't really developed well. She sounds pretty Average for me, with some okay-ish moments A4-B4/C5. Her approach is less stylistic/airy than Jo Yuri but her support isn't any more developed from what I've heard, it's less smooth and  consistently present.

Considering the other 4th Gen mains (including NMixx duo now), no I wouldn't say Yunjin is one of the highlights. But hey, at least someone from Hybe is supporting enough lol. The last female main was Yuju though so , there's that. 

6 hours ago, chaeyonass said:

hey ik its not kpop but whos the better vocalist between lady gaga and ariana grande and why?? and how do u guys think gaga did here 

PD: dk if anyone here keeps up with gaga but im pretty sure she had a regression and sounds more tense nowdays especially when she’s singing her jazz stuff she had ease with so where would u place her nowdays?

 

Lady Gaga did great in that ofc, the song isn't anything challenging for her. I love her in that style. Her vowels kinda narrow more in the 5th octave, but she's a mezzo who uses quite some weight so it's fine really. 

And nah, I think you know the answer to the ariana grande comparison. As iffy as it is to compare mezzos to sopranos, Lady Gaga is an advanced pop vocalist either way. 

Also, I haven't really listened to her lately so I can't comment on anything about regression, haven't heard anything like that. But still, someone of her level will find it difficult to actually lose the technique lmao. If she did sound a lil rough around the edges it may just be a lack of consistent honing of her instrument, which is fine, not necessarily a regression. 

[ZRH23]

2 hours ago, exodus05 said:

I am not an expert but her A4-B4s were not strong enough. Correct me if I'm wrong. She's nasal too.

 

2 hours ago, seulgisbae said:

It’s not like we can easily pretend Ariana doesn’t have one of the better and more refined mid ranges out of alot of the categories.
 

Her development is strong enough to be carried to C’s and even some C#’s can have support while phrasing, her development is strong so the comparison is fair since both are known for being the voice of their generation 

I mean... Her A4-B4s are definitely strong enough, but her midrange isn't that great when you compare it to the AAs. But yes, she generally sounds quite full in her midrange, it's still way less problematic than SeoSica gang. The main problem comes with her messy approach C5 and above, there are moments of support but usually some form of tension or placement issue gets in the way. 

9 hours ago, elseelseelse2 said:

I found some other videos:

Keonhee sings 0:25, 2:03, 2:49, and they all sing together in the choruses.

Keonhee sings 0:49-1:09, 2:14-2:30, and 2:57. This video is kind of interesting because even to my ears, I can hear the difference between when he sings and whenever Leedo (blond) sings after him!

I would be really happy if Keonhee were an average - that would make Oneus the only other group in the 4th gen besides A.C.E (if A.C.E is even 4th gen) to have an actual "vocal line" that can support. There isn't anyone else in the Oneus who has some grasp of technique, is there?

I'm not sure what the threshold for low average is, but if he's in it then he's barely making it imo. It's passable but really not that strong for me. All the F4/F#4 go into the nose and he's soft and more on the shallow side rather than full and engaged. Seoho has a more obvious connection to support even with the JKesque style.

[ZRH23]

Not sure why yall are being bitter and all, acting like this is something new in the K-Pop industry . Discrediting and devalueing other members just because they don't focus on vocals (in an industry based on performance anyway)... Well, up to y'all. The main vocalists hone their skill because they love singing and that's great for them. Not everybody has that same degree of passion, even amongst main vocalists or lead vocalists, it happens. Some are way more interested in the entertainment industry as a whole: dancing, acting, modeling, MCing etc., all of which are equal and valid crafts even if they're not the most obvious to judge as singing is. And that's completely fine. Not everyone is meant to be a vocalist, not everyone needs to be. As long as the voice is decent enough to carry a tune to make the song work, that's fine.

The issue of only pretty idols are popular has been existent for a long time yall, it's not a 4th Gen thing . Taeyeon and Eunji being one of the most popular member does stem from their good singing (which is way out of league than most mains anyways so those are standout) AND they both fit the Korean visuals, it's not a stretch. The decline in vocals have got more to do with how music is shifting to performance-oriented stuff and that shift is seen everywhere, Western music included. The 2000s era was littered with vocalists with some clean grasp of support and whatnot. Now there's less importance to it and that's fine. Koreans have a passion for vocals more than any other entertainment industry that I see, I doubt the whole idea of technique will disappear lmaooo.

Plus, being a pretty or popular member doesn't mean they haven't worked hard for where they are now. Not working on vocals is not equivalent to being a bad idol. It's just luck and visuals, in the end it's a card that they have an advantage in. It's not one's fault for stealing the spotlight away. 

5 hours ago, jeong jaehyuns boyfriend said:

posting another random, throwback clip (which is what i do best <3)

jessica said oh yall forgot im a main vocalist? PUT SOME RESPECT ON MY NAME

but in all seriousness, i miss old snsd. we'll probably never get moments like this again, but memories like this will always have a special place in my heart. i really wish jessica could sing like this again - from 2007-2011 especially, she never hesitated to sing. even here, taeyeon isnt singing and is just listening along and its jessica (and a bit of seohyun) carrying the acapella.

her voice sounded very forward here, even on those Bb4s and that C5.

 

Umm... Don't mean to sound mean, but there's nothing special here. Like, at all . She's just singing with her usual sound, a bit into her nose, tonality could be much fuller as always... It's very average imo. Not a standout moment for Jessica.

1 hour ago, elseelseelse2 said:

Thank you for the replies! So Seoho solid average, Keonhee weak-average, Leedo weak, makes sense to what my fairly untrained ears hear between them. 2/6 who can support in the 4th gen in the same group we won!!

Just kidding. Oh well, I will take my small victories. Besides Oneus and A.C.E (if they count), are there any other 4th gen boy groups who have more than one person who can support/sorta support?

I think they give Leedo singing parts because he has an "interesting vocal tone" that's darker than Seoho and Keonhee's so it creates a compliment (even though Leedo always sings so airy and breathy to match them). And because he's hot and maybe to appear fairer, idk.

It's wild on Reddit that apparently people don't want to stan Purple Kiss because Goeun and Swan have the majority of the lines and it's "unfair" and "it's like the group is their solo vehicle". I've definitely seen people complain that if you look at Oneus' entire discography, Seoho has like 4 times the number of lines as most of the group. The main vocalists carry the groups on their back in their music and then they get shit on for....doing their job and singing the lines assigned to them by their company.

The JYP band has two main vocals who can support, they're both around mid-Average. Then there's that nugu group... I forgot their name but it's something maths related lmaooo. 2/3 ish maybe have support, at least one is a solid Average. 

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17 minutes ago, jeong jaehyuns boyfriend said:

not everything about vocals in this thread has to be a debate about technique or some technical conversation, i was simply expressing my sentiment for that moment

I didn't argue or think otherwise with any other aspect of the post, Jessica was a main vocal ofc she was. I only responded to a part where you used technical terms, to which I disagree. The other sentiments and such, great. 

16 minutes ago, elseelseelse2 said:

Xdinary Heroes from JYP? Ooh interesting, I forgot about them because they released one song and then fell off the face of the planet.

Math related??? Do you remember how many members the group had? I can't think of anyone...

Also, I wanted to ask since I saw it only mentioned once in the thread - is Verivery Yeonho an average? I found some covers he's done:

Yes, Yeonho sounds like an Average. 

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1 hour ago, teolaegiberry said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ljtI_sdGUYQ?feature=share

may I ask how my guy is doing (○´3｀)ﾉ

Kyungsoo maintained his level basically . I'm glad tbh, I was low-key worried that he wouldn't bother anymore since he got back from the military and had that soft vocal albums. He looks like he's still trying these days with the EXO songs so that's great. Support was present up to Bb4 as usual, some not bad B4s phrased as well. 

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29 minutes ago, galhadineas said:

imo it's better than @1:04, this one was pushed and a lot more tense than the one from Queendom, same for @1:09. It sounds more like the one at 0:48. And my comparison with that specific note from Kei is just because it was said here that that note was supported, her being better now is good for her but has nothing to do with my comparison. Kei indeed sounds very good, better than Yeonjung, I'm glad she's improving! 

I kinda disagree. The Queendom one was just a lot of air pressure (plus some amount of effect) on an 'Ah' vowel so it sounds like it's 'opened' but really it's tight and tense on the throat. @1.04 wasn't great, but it was somewhat fuller and less tight overall. @0.48, was nasal but still had that slightly fuller quality to it. The Queendom was quite yelly, it just sounds better cuz of the 'Ah' vowel. 

Also, it was said that Kei's old C5/C#5 belt was supported here?? I don't remember seeing that lol. It's not supported, it's pushed but still not as tight in the throat as Yeonjung tbh. It's similar to the Produce belts. 

12 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

This is super late but Ariana doesn't have THAT impressive fullness. She does have C5 and even some C#5s but her quality as a whole is on the lighter side like the A-AA. 

Does anyone here know NingNing and Lily's best notes in the A4-B4 range? 

Ningning hasn't really sung enough midbelts for me to notice but the ones in the recording studio were her fullest. 

@0.13, that's the best from lily so far. 

 

7 hours ago, exodus05 said:

Ariana has C5/C#5? She has some jaw tension sustaining C5s right? 

She has jaw tension in general lol amongst other things. And no, I'd still cap it at B4/C#5. She tends to lose more of her fullness above B4. 

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9 hours ago, chaeyonass said:

im sorry could u explain why? if u can please

1 hour ago, exodus05 said:

I'm not the one who made the ranking but Jihyo could be stylistic and it made her Bb4/B4 tight sometimes and Seulgi's development in the fourth octave is stronger. Seulgi has better lows too.

Nah, it's not really stylistic lmao. She's just been that way all the time now. Basically, both Seulgi and Jihyo has stuck issues, but Jihyo's issues are present way earlier into her range (throughout actually) and she doesn't have the fullness to back it up.

Seulgi has a cleaner, more developed support and it's consistent up until Bb4/B4 where she encounters some problems with nasality and tongue tension. She's probably got one of the fullest sound in the Average tier so far, and it's enough to carry some degree of support above B4 too. 

Even on the spot, her sound is smooth and full, without much tension in her midrange. Jihyo usually goes nasal within a simple range.

And at her best, C5s carry some support. @1.35, @2.56. She's overall just a more developed, consistent vocalist than Jihyo is.

3 hours ago, Rico said:

what do we think about miss devita.

 

 

 

Sounds around Average to me, she gets light on her mixing on C#5s.