Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Jstarfully]

They wouldn't be as obvious as Chungha? Well, okay then. I find theirs to be just as obvious though, since it's all pretty much the same issue.

 

O_o, oh, so the passagios aren't like, specifically determined. Sure, I've heard the ones about the first passagio for sopranos is around F4 and the second one is around F5. But I didn't know the range for each passagio was that large.

 

But I still don't really get it. So, perhaps Chungha has a higher vocal break. But shouldn't things like this be taken into consideration while analyzing? If one has a slightly higher vocal break, shouldn't they have a bit of a higher set if criteria regardless of their skill?

 

Well, I'll use myself as an example - I'm either a heavier soprano or a light, unusual mezzo, and my mid-mixed voice vocal break has always been around B4-C5.

 

Back when I was barely trained at all and didn't know how to mix much, this meant that I essentially pushed my chest voice/lower mixed voice (it depends which classification you use, but it's the same thing so both are bad) up all the way to that C5 and although that note was still quite pushed, above that was the kind of strain where it was like a coin flip on whether I'd hit the note or not. Above C5 I was only reliable with falsetto. That's a pretty terrible vocalist any which way you look at it, although my chest voice has always gone down at least to an E3. 

 

Now, I still sometimes struggle to start significantly lightening my mix around my break area, but I still know how to lighten my mix and can mix up to F5 on a day where I've warmed up to the full extent. My lower range is still around the same, depending on my condition I can vocal fry down to a C3 and my head voice goes up to around E6. That's a decent range, especially if it's supported and resonant (which depends on a lot of stuff for me lol)

 

Some people's passaggi are closer or further apart, however this doesn't really give an indication of what that person's expected final range could be, and range size tends to increase proportionately with technique. Get me?

Edited June 8, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

My own personal differentiation for vocal break and passaggio is that a passaggio is natural to your voice type, whereas a vocal break can at times happen to someone due to technical reasons. At times someone's voice break might be sooner or later than others due to how they mix and I wouldn't always 100% use it as a certain way to tell where someone's passaggi are. At least that's how I see it. 

 

Ah yeah I use the terms interchangeably but not everybody does, sorry about that.

 

Ah that's interesting to know. It's good to see that for the normal baritone and a lighter tenor still have a minor third of a gap or so. I'd believe some could be a major third. Mhmm but this is the post I wanted you to show me last time but you told me to look it up myself. That's nice of you to paste it for them though. I stand corrected just fine since I've never been taught what the correct passaggi are. I have actually but it was in a contemporary school in England that insisted that the bridges hapoened every three notes and that all males had the same ones and all females had the same ones and the first one for a female are only a third higher than the male ones and I was "so are tenors, basses and baritones myths?"

 

Wow at them saying all males had the same passaggio as well as females having the same passaggio. Sure there are more common passaggio due to the most common voice types usually having similar passaggio within them, like baritone and soprano.

 

But then, if I was correct about that B4 being around Sejeong's middle voice passaggio, and since mine is around there as well, that'd have to mean that either I'm wrong about being a mezzo (and I'm just a heavier soprano) and we're all wrong about her being a soprano should everyone with the same passaggio have the same voice type. It's more of an indication, I'd like to think - somewhere to start.

[Jstarfully]

Who told you that you're a mezzo though?

 

A lot of people, tbh. I'll post something of me singing sometime I have time to put one together. But both the broadway trained classical teacher and the opera trained one I had said this, and my contemporary teacher just says he prefers not to class me since I kinda cover the entire alto and soprano standard ranges.

[Jstarfully]

mhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bout that one but like okay yeah that's fine. I don't think Sejeong is a mezzo though, even if you might be. Again her mixing technique might be what's giving her that "voice break."

 

In classical and operatic music an alto range would be from around D3 to F5, and a soprano range is B3 to E6. Those are the traditional ranges that can be demanded of those roles, although some coloratura roles go so high as G6/G#6 and other roles as low as F3.

[Jstarfully]

My point is that literally any soprano can cover that range. D3 ~ E6? That's just 3 octaves, so being able to cover all of that range and saying that because of that he can't voice type is an excuse he's giving for not being able to voice type you, cause the range you cover is more or less irrelevant to voice typing. 

 

Well that's kinda why there's not much point in voice typing in contemporary. That's more what my coach meant.

 

I don't think he means that she's resonant throughout that whole range..

 

Lol no I'm not, like I've probably had a time where each of those notes was resonant, but all at once? No.

[Jstarfully]

I'm enjoying this random foray into classical vocal chit chat since that's more in my wheelhouse. Alto/Soprano are voice parts not voice types (tho soprano is a voice type.. too). A lot of people who sing the alto part in choirs are actually sopranos. In fact, most women are sopranos. Voice types are contralto, mezzo soprano, and soprano (and all the fun, wacky variations thereof). Range is frequently irrelevant to voice typing. A lot of mezzos can (and do) cover the same range as sopranos. The question is the tessitura where the voice is most comfortable.

 

If @Jstarfully had a classical instructor suggest she's a mezzo, she very well may be. But I know a lot of people who were told they were 'mezzos' when they started studying at a young age. They developed some bad vocal habits to fabricate a deeper quality in certain parts of the voice. Lo and behold, when they got to college, they found out they were actually sopranos - lightened things up and had a much healthier vocal life after that.

 

In regards to actual roles, half the time the designation of voice type for a part ends up being irrelevant. I've sung contralto roles, and I've sung mezzo roles that I've also seen sopranos do (cherubino, dorabella). I am a lyric mezzo fwiw.

 

Exactly, hence why my current vocal teacher (and I) kinda think that nowadays there isn't much point in voice typing, unless, for example, you're an alto and you're thinking of auditioning for a coloratura or soubrette role which like... sure you might be able to make your voice sound like that for the songs you gotta sing but after a whole season of performances have fun with that vocal node.

[Jstarfully]

I think there is a point to it if you have a voice that has matured enough for an instructor to be able to make that determination. If they are knowledgeable, you can start working developing appropriate repertoire and whatnot. But if you are young, forcing the voice into a category based on some assumptions can be damaging.

 

Though you can be a coloratura mezzo. The speedy parts aren't just for sopranos =) 

 

Sure, but it's most important for classical and operatic music. There isn't much difference between soprano and mezzo songs in contemporary, I mean. The biggest difference in those types is just tessitura.

[Jstarfully]

So I'm really super sick right now, and because I'm an idiot and I don't value my throat enough, I was singing along to kpop in the car. Anyway, long story short I am now personally rethinking the fact that I'm a mezzo based solely on the fact that sick me sounds like the blonde girl in kard who isn't Somin (I think her name is Jiwoo) but like just ever so slightly heavier, and both of them are definitely sopranos.

[Jstarfully]

Rumors of Shannon being on King of Masked Singer...

 

Hasn't she already been on it? Anyway, it'll be exciting to see what she chooses to sing.

[Jstarfully]

No, she hasn't been on it. She was on KPop Star.

 

I added clips to the previous post.

 

Oh right as in she might be on it right now, I thought you meant that she'll be on it in the future lol 

EDIT: The one in the blue sounds older, no idea who that is. At first the one in pink sounded like Eunji, but once she went higher that similarity disappeared. Dunno if it's Shannon, does sound a little darker than her voice, but she's also pretty good at imitating other singers and such, she could be trying to fool everybody.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

I have a chest infection right now and my vocal range consists of literally two notes (C4 and B3 if you were curious) and everything else is whispering. It's been this way since saturday, send help (and honey) lol 

[Jstarfully]

Oh no honey, ginger the shit out of your voice

 

Really? I thought ginger was for nausea and honey (plus lemon) was for sore throats and bad voices? 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

And its not like once you get a moonstone you keep your treble voice and become a counter tenor or a dragon stone that can make you from baritone to tenor. Plus we dont get to know what type we are born with and I dont think habits affect what voice type youll get.

 

This ain't no RPG where we get to pick a class.

 

That's interesting to think about though, what voice people would pick if they could pick. In that case you could probably be super specific and add all those coloratura and lyric types, plus the weird ones like soubrettes. Would everyone just choose tenor or soprano? Maybe, but I'd like to think not.

[Jstarfully]

Idk why but pushed singing bothers me more than strained singing. As in, I'd be more likely to keep listening to an artist who strains often than an artist who pushes often. Something about that pushed sound is so hard to get past versus the strained sound which sometimes can blend in or at times even sound similar but less 'full' than a supported note would.

[Jstarfully]

Yes, I agree. I really just can't handle Ailee. Like...some performances are really nice (Hey Hui, Don't Say Words That Hurt) but I just feel like something is blocked and I just don't like it. Even if it's supported.

 

But for someone like Hyorin, who straight out strains and go throaty, I prefer her sound. Purely on preference though.

 

Yeah exactly, it's just like Ailee vs Hyorin. 

For newbies I guess BP Jennie vs WJSN Yeonjung.

 

But then, this is just my opinion. 

[Jstarfully]

Hey guys, I've been practicing some exercises to improve support and pitch, and last week I found this app called "Perfect Ear", I don't know if it's a brazilian app, but I only found it in portuguese. There's a section in the app where it plays a random note and you should sing the note, if you are flat or sharp, it tells you that you did hit the note but without precision. You can choose which octaves you want to practice, I've been doing it only with the 3rd and 4th octave. The only problem is that if you sing one octave down it'll say that you hit the right note but without precision, even if you weren't flat lol But it's really good and it's helping me a lot. There are lots of things you can learn through this app, I really recommend it. 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evilduck.musiciankit&hl=pt

 

It's definitely not only in Portuguese because I've had it on my phone for a while haha you just remove the language specifier at the end of the link to get it in the default language (which is English since it's google)

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evilduck.musiciankit

Edited June 26, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Oh, that's good to know! Could you confirm if it's really helpful since you know more about vocals than me lol

 

Honestly I haven't gotten very far in it, and I'm mostly using it to train chords, chord progressions and recognising which key something is in... plus my voice is still wrecked from being sick. Seriously I've been sick since the 9th it's bullshit lol

 

Wasn't Richard Miller already brought up before and is said to be a bit questionable?

 

Sent from my LG-D852 using OneHallyu mobile app

 

He's a bit questionable only due to the fact that he writes that there are two passaggi for men, whereas many, particularly those who follow only Bel Canto style teaching/theory, have the opinion there is just one. There is a lot of debate over this because there's not any scientific research to prove Miller's primo passaggio for men.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

hi guys, is 3:10-3:13 C#5-E5-C#5?

 

 

It was C#5-E5-D5-C#5

[Jstarfully]

What do you mean you shouldn't be answering?

 

Hm, is this guy even a tenor? If so, either his voice is naturally heavy or he's being quite chesty. I'm using your time stamps...

C3s do seem nice, it's quite heavy. 0.58, that softly mixed Eb/E is nice. 1.20 again, the C3s seem okay. I'm not sure if he's lowering his larynx tho. He is being a little airy, a little raspy. Maybe stylistically.

1.47 even E4 seems high for him already, is he a tenor? It seems pushed. G4s seem pushed too. Maybe his chestiness is throwing me off. 3.27 it seems tight and pushed, again. Throughout the lines there he doesn't sound relaxed, it sounds pushed.

 

3.44 until 4.48. Mhm, the G4s don't seem nice for me. The F4, I'm not sure. Still hearing a fair amount of chestiness and pushiness. D4s are much better. I don't really hear resonance though. I haven't a tenor be resonant on a D4 before, and it's taking him effort there already. 4.03 was better too. Then there's a falsetto.

 

I'm not good at this and I'm just trying out, but he seems like a lower placed voice lol. If he's not a baritone, then he's a very chesty tenor.

 

I followed Produce 101, and from everything I've seen there he's almost definitely a tenor. He just mixes really chesty and has a tendency of almost straight-up shouting the highest notes and pushing below that. His voice doesn't really sound heavy nor dark enough to be a baritone to me, it's just his technique in his mix that makes it sound as if he can't hit the notes comfortably bc of fach or whatever.

[Jstarfully]

Does anyone here have any tips on rounding out my voice and making my mix stronger? Rn my mix is very light lol. I have a hard time making it stronger cause of heady habits I've developed over the years. I'm a tenor and I start mixing at around E4/F4.

 

Do you bridge well? Like, if you went gradually up from the lowest note in your range to the middle of your mix, or so, is there a sudden change in heaviness or strength at any point? Also, how low can you push your head voice? Because usually the cure for both chestiness and headiness is to work on bringing your head voice down and also strengthening it, especially if you have somewhat of a break where the sound quality suddenly changes.

 

But in any case, it is generally better and easier to have a lighter mix than a heavy one, as well as healthier long-term. Also I greet you from across the ditch lol 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Greetings!!! My bridge is inconsistent, it's not hard for me to sing my notes from lowest into the mixed range but there is a change in quality so sometimes I try making my chest lighter. my head voice only starts in the fifth octave as I so far always mix into the lower 5th octave.

 

Ah, then that's why you're having problems bridging! You need a strong, wide-ranged head voice to mix well. There's a lot of ways you can work on it, so it kind of depends on you. However, one of most common ways is by singing scales with your head voice, so start somewhere in the fifth octave and start working downwards. On top of that you want to work on strengthening it - you can do this by practicing songs with a lot of head voice (or, since you're a tenor, just pick a female song lol) or by doing twang/placement exercises in your head voice. My tutor usually uses this one video of Miley Cyrus warming up to show the tone you want, it's quite nasal:

She's mixing in her warm-up though, but that's still the tone you'd want. Obviously you don't sing like that in performances, you round it out so it doesn't sound as harsh.

 

Oh, also something that helps, go really quickly from the lowest pitch you can sing, to the highest, and then go from your highest to lowest - but without mixing. So going straight from chest voice to head voice. You'll be able to hear exactly where your break is, but over time as your head voice gets stronger the break should get less noticeable, and once it's at that point you can start coordinating your mix to transition properly as well.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

Just out of interest and for fun, how high can everyone here mix and what's your voice type?

 

E5, but I can go up to F5 on a good day. I start losing tone and getting a bit vocal fry-ey below E3. I can't remember where my head voice goes up to and I'm sick so I can't test it, but I think it's E6. I have like an octave of each register lol

 

My tutors have said I'm either a heavier soprano or a mezzo with a high head voice range.

[Jstarfully]

Hey y'all could you please review my very short covers lol, l'm a beginner so its a bit messy and my vocal type is still inconclusive（probably an underdeveloped tenoriono)

 

What is a tenoriono? Even my google search came up blank.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Jstarfully

[Jstarfully]

how do I delete this post. The one I'm typing rn.

 

You don't, only mods can delete.

[Jstarfully]

Typo kshdidjjdhdjdh I meant a tenor. I was told by my school teacher(mabye not a reliable source) that I was a countertenor but some others said I'm a high tenor since Countertenor isn't used in modern music while Ahmin said I'm inconclusive cause not enough material.

 

(Instead of deleting my previous post, I made it useful in replying hehe)

 

Yeah countertenor isn't really a category that means anything if applied to non-classical music. If I read that I'd assume you were just a high and/or light tenor