Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[AhMin]

Is Debelah Morgan a good vocalist? And how good are Stephanie and Sunday from CSJH? below or above Narsha?

I think they're below Narsha, never heard them resonate but it's not like I tried to find it either. I'd say Stephanie is the 3rd best and Sunday the weakest but they're all yknow okay either way

 

Just so we're all on the same page, why don't aki and zhx post some examples of MC's non-airy HV?  And I guess we are supposed to take Emotions as an example of not-that-airy whistle.  And then we can go from there. ^^;

 

(I blame aki for this, actually, she brought up HV when you were all just talking about whistle, even if AG's is actually a tensed falsetto.)

wow so someone actually can see that there's a bit of injustice happening... I agree completely, I wanted an example of it too, I was really just asking.

[AhMin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NONzyBhAhgY

 

 

Some of them are in head voice. 

it sounds nice, I like it, so can you tell me why it's considered underdeveloped? 

 

And can you honestly tell me what's good and bad bout Ariana? I think she has a healthy mix, never heard her resonating either. Her lower register is weak, I think like Christina she tends to either go into whistle or just pull up falsetto, and head voice wise it's mostly falsetto, Ik that cuz I've listened to her, so besides her having bad sense of pitch like Demi, what's her overall yknow..analysis without just bashing her without any good reason?

 

 

how good is Victoria Justice of Victorious?

I think she's alright, but really tense... never heard her resonating, she improved and can somewhat be healthy but yknow still pulls her larynx up or down for effect, doesn't sing with a natural tone all the time. Barely uses a head voice if at all. Her lower register isn't bad, it's pretty natural, but she strains quite a bit..or used to, I think now she improved but still strains, dunno from what point tho, she used to pull on C5s but now I think she is okay there.

 

Oh and just a thought to throw out there, just because I have the capability of saying from C#5 up a person strains does not mean I can only do pitch since I'm just using the pitch as a guideline for a more specific reading. If it bothers someone that I mention a pitch, then I'll refrain and we'll keep it vague and general.

[AhMin]

<patpatpats>

 

http://onehallyu.com/index.php?/topic/552-official-vocals-thread/page-31&do=findComment&comment=276529

^psst, get back to me on how the C#5s at the end are? XD

Thanks, but I think I musta done something wrong. 

 

and Oh they're...okay so they're not very controlled but they seemed relaxed, they were quiet and I wasn't sure if I could judge well, they seem relaxed, but sorta not very on pitch and point.

[AhMin]

(I don't think so, honestly.)

 

Hm, so what's the hierarchy here?

 

resonant > open throat > relaxed > tense?  Missing a few steps?

The hierarchy is resonant > open throated > relaxed/healthy (I think that also means it can be nasal, since that's not necessarily unhealthy) > tense, strained, pulled larynx, tight throated > not able to hit the note at all lol and uhm I think  like they like to say "I'm too sensitive"

 

 

What about Elizabeth Gills the one that plays Jade

 

and can you order Ariana Elizabeth and Victoria in order :3

Ariana > Victoria > Elizabeth

 

They're all quite good, like better than Disney singers without a doubt (like Selena gomez and miley cyrus), but not as good as yknow good singers. (Good in my terms, more like yknow average to mediocre for them) but yeah Lizzie is like alright, she has some strain and doesn't have a very wide range. Her vocals are not to my liking... 

[AhMin]

what's her range?

 

and isn't Demi the best Disney singer (female)

Yes and Demi should be like better than Ariana but apart from Demi, everybody else is pretty weak. and I'm not sure, I've heard her sing E5 and her sing like G3 probably

[AhMin]

If I understood correctly, it seems underdeveloped because there isn't much clarity, richness, intensity, dynamics as opposed to developped head voices.

 

Ariana...bad sense of pitch, breath support issues (it's clear from that performance), tonality issues (any fuller, rounder tones with proper placement?), tensed falsetto notes and bad sense of musicality. Her middle voice isn't "good" (I believe she does bad past D5), but I get that your definition of "good" vocally is different from ours...

tonality would be like the fact she can't resonant goes under tonality. Wouldn't bad sense of pitch and musicality go under bad sense of musicianship? Okay so not resonant and not good musically. Tensed falsetto, knew that. Breath support, I didn't pay attention enough since I've been multi tasking, what'd she do in the performance? And I only mean she doesn't tend to strain when she sings in her mix, does she?

 

oh I get it, well that would pretty much translate to underdeveloped then.. I wonder why

[AhMin]

Demi has a really good head voice right? and resonated.

I don't know, not familiar with her, I heard she has a connected and developed head voice. She has huge pitch and key issues, she goes off and yeah, but she can resonate, she doesn't always tho cuz her belting is pretty shouty. 

[AhMin]

Ariana does not produce the most desirable tone. By musicality, I meant like her musical originality or musicianship. She is a Mariah Carey wannabe. If you watched that performance a 2nd time more carefully, you'd realize she has support issues. Like there's no power in her voice. No fuller tone produced. It's whiny and not that strong.

Oh Ik that it's not very strong, it's kinda pulled on her "LOVE the way" but yeah. I shall watch again~ Being like Mariah Carey..is hard

 

what about AS Jungah? I heard she's better than Raina

She's not good, I mean in my terms, she's okay, yknow she can kinda sing songs, but she's still as an overall vocalist pretty weak, not as bad as Raina..

[AhMin]

So clearly some of these lessors need to be clocked cause I'v had enough to hear with the whining

 

@Ahmin Listen, I really am kinda tired of you. You are overtly sensitive and it's so childish.You are a highnote and a Pitch whore. We can go back numerous pages and we will see it. Stop with the whining please?Thank you. And I told you that my Vocal chart is going to be redone. Stop bitching.

 

@gangertae Girl I don't even know where you come from. First of all. Let me make this perfectly clear. On the grand scale of everything all the vocalist in SNSD are not worth my time they are mediocre. Nothing they do is impressive. And do you want to know why? Because they are not marketed as vocalist but pop artist. Taeyeon has had only like 3-4 good performances End of story.

Jessica is not much of vocalist and you know this. Stop it.

 

Also I have to mention this. I from the very start have stated that my standards for good vocalist is on a different level then yours. While both of you are okay with the screechy,Third rate column of sound,tonality,breath support etc I tend to try and find voices with a solid sound and style.Because you are okay with how they sound don't be mad when someone tells you it is not that great.

 

Also I do not understand the whole "Biasness" thing cause if I wanted to I would compare Sohyang,Ailee,JeA and many more of my faves to others it's not like I can't. The only reason you guys are so pressed about it is because the videos I made are of your faves and you can't handle the fact that you CLEARLY can hear the difference in sound between a good vocalist and the ones you adore.

Josias. wtf did I even say? I'm not even talking bout you nor to you. oh and if this has anything to do with Ariana, I like her, she can sing high, but that's all, she's not a good vocalist by your standards but I'm satisfied with her singing and I can enjoy it. I didn't insult you at all, so please don't insult me. 

[AhMin]

^Actually I'v also said numerous times...you may enjoy her and thats perfectly fine. Never said you couldn't.

well then why did you feel the need to insult me? That was uncalled for, cuz insults can be thrown left and right, but do we need this?

 

You said he was biased while you aren't at all. Anyways, it's only gangertae and JiYul who have issues with Josias' chart and his "biasness". 

Drew, have you no class? If you wanna make public comments on twitter bout people, good thing but you went on to tell Josias comments we made in a private conversation? That's really. really. low.

[AhMin]

If you guys have an issue with someone, there's no need to keep it to yourselves. You're doing nothing more than create more burden and mess. So you didn't complain and was ok with me talking about you on Twitter but not about this? lmao okay. But really, isn't this a good way to end it? 

Drew, I always complain bout you talking bout me publicly on twitter but it's your choice and you do it anyway. Now we didn't, You talked on twitter bout us, you didn't tell us directly. If we didn't read it, we wouldn't know, so that kinda really doesn't add much to having an issue with someone. But we didn't, so it's really disrespectful to, but hey I guess it's a great way to end it.

 

I have no issue admitting a mistake.

 

 

@plastic Yuji is?

Could you please not ignore me? you insulted me when I wasn't the one even really bitching bout you, so can you please address the issue, as Drew wanted?

[AhMin]

Well you didn't do a great job showing your complaint. It's disrespectful? No you're just being overly sensitive. Get over it. 

No, this is to do with people. You don't go spilling out what people tell you in private to someone else, THAT is disrespectful if you didn't know. This has nothing to do with me being sensitive, this has to do with being well educated.

 

I apologize for the insult. Regardless of the fact I'm apologizing you are very sensitive and you seem to really be a highnote & pitch whore. While I commend you for having trained your ear that much all the constant mentioning of those things makes it seem like you only care about a specific thing in a singer and it's somewhat tacky as a singer yourself to only appreciate things like that.

 

As a person I have no issue with you and wish you the best in life. However in this thread you irk me sometimes lol

I don't think you apoligizing then repeating the insult is exactly a very good way to go but if you wanna be honest.. I don't only appreciate if a singer can sing a certain note, thank you for the compliment, I just use specific pitches to talk bout people's capability and it's how I do it. I hope you do well in life too, I'm aware that I irk you and don't worry you irk me. But I know a lot more than I'm credited for, I'm just not as harsh as you guys, that doesn't mean I don't know enough. I sing, I actually sing. Like for the future profession I mean, so being super harsh on people like...being an amazing vocalist won't make you sell either way so there's no point in being completely harsh with everyone, how will you enjoy any music then? Unless you can't even be listenable in studio, then that's a problem, but if you're okay then I can enjoy your music, that's enough for me. So just because I'm not as harsh as you people, doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I'm not exactly a high note whore though, but I do get pitch whore. But yknow if I'm gonna try and make a vocal range video for a singer I like, I should at least be able to notate the right notes for the video, don't you think? 

[AhMin]

If you know more then you show then why doesn't it seem like that some comments you make say otherwise.

 

Cause if you do then you don't have to be as HARSH as I am but you can atleast say the truth and not sugarcoat it to the point where you make us believe you legit think certain things are ok.

I only think they're okay because I'm not as harsh. Your mediocre is my okay, your average is my good-ish. That's all. and pitch it's the only thing Ik more that's why it's the only thing I'm really regarded for, since for everything else, I do not know as much and I'm okay with admitting that. But I do know more than people regard me for.

Wow. Hypocrite much? I recall numerous times when you and Gangertae did the same? Therefore, your post may be disregarded from now on. 

Oh.. wait. I never did that. I do admit and remember gangertae told me things that were told to him in private but I didn't do that, so I'm not exactly the hypocrite, but I am sorry for that. 

 

yknow I think the only way to change this situation is either..well if I leave or if I just stop sugarcoating at all. But how can I be not harsh and not sugarcoat? What's the mid-term?

[AhMin]

^I'd rather you not leave.

Really? Now I'm really surprised

 

@aly thank you sweetheart. I promise from now on ill stop being as easy on people as I am just be honest.

[AhMin]

Dramatic. Listen to how cold and how huge her voice is.

So Josias what would you say about Ailee? Like since I stopped but I will try and go back into making her range within the weekend time, since yknow life happens. I've been listening to her a lot recently...  and I was gonna say smth but I wanna know, what do you think of her air pressure against her vocal cords?

[AhMin]

She needs to let the air be as steady as possible when it is released. She is off to a good start as mastering her support though. Hopefully she keeps practicing.

yeah I feel as though she cracks, which she has more than once, because she puts too much air pressure and her vocal cords then collapse and yknow part... so the air goes through.. and if she were to just have the same breath support throughout it would just be so wonderful for her. Oh and as for her lower range, I think it's pretty much as good as any other vocalist, the only smart thing bout her is that she knows she can't hit low notes so she changes vocal melodies to avoid them... which makes it so hard to find certain notes, but I think everything else is good, oh btw do you know what her resonant F5 is? I don't know which one it is people say she resonated so I can add it to the video

[AhMin]

Which ones so far have you seen? Cause She has alot and atm I can't go through all of them lol

do you mean F5s? I just asked in case you knew off of the top of your head, if you don't it's fine. I found out she has a couple of F5s indeed, I just didn't listen for much, I was just basically watching her performances and looking for lower notes more than higher lol higher is easier anyway...but if you don't know, it's fine, I have all her Immortal Song performances, so I'll check myself ^ ^ thanks tho~

[AhMin]

*Twerks* Yay back on topic <3

what. lol and why twerking... yknow why dont u tell me where you're from and like your ethnicity.. lol I'm just curious oh..and age. lol 

[AhMin]

That's not creepy.

SHHHH they dont need to know. 

 

Off K-pop What do you think of Kelly Rowland's vocals?

Can I start my new non-sugarcoating self with her? She is a really big strainer. Like strains on C#5's and above strainer. I mean those when Love Takes Over notes...to me they were pushed and just..she was just shouting. I did not like it the least, head voice not good, and lower range not good either as far as I recall. However so I do like her tone and Destiny's Child harmonies were great, but as soloist not much. oh and you're 23?! wow okay~ and multi-racial like what? and Ik USA, I meant what state lol 

 

Ok means supported, open throated?

Ok usually means just healthy, not open throated. It means basically not tense. and Kim Taewoo can sing Eb2? ._. really?  I like Navi's songs, like Diary is my favorite, as a vocalist, she's a good yknow artist.. lol her singing is just average, not really a good example of a vocalist... 

 

Which means a healthy note can be done with a closed throat? <.>

 

I don't think I've heard much of her head voice. Do you have any vids? ;O I don't know why more women don't develop their head voice in k-pop.

Oh because...well not only k-pop in mainstream music, the use of a breathy onset for head voice has become so common that girls don't realize they can sing in head voice without going into falsetto. Most just do it cuz it's what happens and they don't bother learning it right. and as for Closed throat, Open throat means you're relaxed but you can't be nasal either, and a healthy note means just no tension, however that can be nasal, because it's just not full and round in tone but it's still not strained either. So it's okay because it's relaxed somewhat, but it's not exactly forward, resonant and rounded.

[AhMin]

Why didn't they just drop it a key. ._.

 

Wolf dropped a key between the demo and the final, but I wonder if it will be enough, actually.  Speaking of Exo, I thought the thread consensus was Chen > D.O > Baekhyun, but I remember weeks and weeks ago on AKP someone here answering that Baekhyun was good (when asked about Exo in general) rather than D.O, and I think I saw zhx outside lately saying that Chen is not the best in Exo.  So what were ppl's positions on this, before they really start generating evaluable lives?

Oh according to Drew, D.O. is better than Chen, I didn't listen to the album yet but he said that from what he heard. 

 

Oh I see, tyvm <3 So it's like inbetween? Not exactly whorrible and not great? Who would be an example of an K-pop singer known for this?

 

Thank you for your thoughts on her, I love her tone/voice too <3 (and not to mention I find her prettier than Bey' but that has nothing to do with vocals or voice XD) Perhaps Bey' could coach her? ;P

 

*Blush* Omg AhMin XD Mixed with black, white and Native American XP And NC

 

Such a shame, looking at Sohyang and Ock Joo Hyun's HVs...such lovely notes they produce. I wish Hyorin would practice her HV and resonating within the upper region. She needs to stop that closed throat singing. T.T

 

I personally don't know how to sing nasally...is it like singing through your nose?

Oh I actually think she's prettier too, but her mix is just shouting, I love listening to her either way tho lol Oh cool, I'm hispanic with asian and a bit of black yay~ now this explains your twerking lol I agree, I wish Tiffany would improve I honestly love her tone and its like a nice one but she's just so basic on her skills, I mean I don't even know if she tries...

 

I'd say Onew is one to usually sing with healthy notes, if you watch the video I made for him, his G#4's were as I recall healthy, he's not nasal, just his placement isn't on point 

 

yes Nasal is singing through your nose. Like basically you don't have a lifted soft palate so the air coming through that hits your vocal cords to produce a note as they stretch for the note, will hit back at the hard palate then hit back to your mouth, in theory if your soft palate is lifted, it can travel through your nasal cavities and resonate in your mask and then through your whole face really... but if your soft palate is not lifted it won't be able to travel to the mask and will consequently resonate more in the nose itself and hence sound nasal.

[AhMin]

Wow that note....that's so..Raina~ish..

 

That second song...omg I love Navi too and all but that was so not good. Like Soyu is that you singing? O.O

 

Mine feels like it comes from the throat mostly? <,>

 

Black, hispanic and asian? Are you really a bit of black? XD That sounds sexy and why that explain my twerking? <.> Omg I love Tiffany's tone too ;D

 

Onew huh? Interesting, I'll go take a gander ;D

 

So anyone who sings closed throat will automatically sound nasally?

Oh omg I just listened to that D5 and it was just plain awful lol omg it was soo bad. Like there are people who strain like Celine dion in the resonance video, where she held the note straining but it was bearable, but that was just plain terrible.

 

I'm like 1/16 black <3 LOL and bcuz u r black, u twerk~ <3 lOL jk and yay~ qurl~ what's a gander.. lol and not necessarily, you can sing with a closed throat and have a lifted soft palate I suppose, but chances are if you sing with tension on your throat, you'll prolly not be one to lifte your soft palate either.

[AhMin]

Omg I thought Navi was a great singer gut that <.> How could she go downhill? What happened to her days of "Diary" and "Well Done"? Even Soyu can manage better than that last song >.> (Okay that might be a stretch but....)

 

LOL are you serious? Omg this racism! JK <3 Lol a country saying omg T.T Something THOSE country ppl say >.> I get bad habits from it <.> It means to take a look at.

 

Hyorin sings with closed throat in her upper region but she doesn't sound nasally?

no you might have a point, cuz that D5 was dreadful. It wasn't like oh tense, it wasn't even singing, it wasn't even shouty, it was just so bad.

 

Oh really? why do you use country people slang? lol 

 

the thing is, when you have tension it usually means your larynx is going up and so when your larynx goes up everything else closes up so the soft palate does not raise and yes you will sound tense and nasal. Like Tiffany when she sings C5's, larynx goes up and she gets nasal. So I suppose yes tension will also come off as nasal in the end. I guess logically it could be possible not to, but it'd very odd.. lol 

[AhMin]

Actually Navi's got much better days. The perf in IS2 was really unexpected. Before I got to this thread, I thought she had a diva voice due to the way she uses her vibrato. Let's wait for her comeback then judge again =).

 

Here is Kim Tae Woo's D#2 at 3:50, don't laugh XD. Maybe it was an E2.

 

lol what. LOL that wasn't singing... lol 

 

 

Nice. ~

 

 

not always the case.

well I thought so logically but didn't you say before that a high larynx will also cause a nasal sound? But yeah I did say that not always, it could happen that u r tight but not nasal...if you read back..

 

Has Minzy shown improvement between debut and ILU, though?

 

I kind of think we can't attribute anything Lee Hi does to YG; I read in an interview that she doesn't have a fixed training schedule, and she's also still attending (a performing arts) school, so I think she'd be getting lessons from there.  Maybe they can build her up enough before she graduates, since it seems like once you're in YG you're SOL.

lol true. YG seems to be the weakest vocally... Lee Hi being their best female idol, and Gummy their best... female overall ..as much as I think Lee Hi is overrated, I'm sure she has a lot of room for improvement ^ ^

[AhMin]

I mean...you said before a person can speak at C3 or something. Can't a speaking voice count as part of the vocal range, since he can reach it?

Well not really and even if it was like G2~A2 at most

[AhMin]

Double post