Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)

[Sarah Oon]

39 minutes ago, K_17 said:

I hear Karina can be shallow based from her covers if I'm not mistaken. I feel she still lack materials, she didn't really have any proper singing material that can we really judge.

I remember her being shallow and airy on some of those radio show covers where she had to sing on the spot. But she had some quiet nice moments as well. Like her cover on knowing brothers or that recent cover where she supported a phrase B4. I think Karina has a nice, smooth and solid mix up till A4 but above that she seems inconsistent. I also think her belts and runs seem kinda sluggish and slightly sloppy. Still, the development between her and the other W-A girls is quite clear in my personal opinion.

 

[Sarah Oon]

3 hours ago, Nana686 said:

https://kbizoom.com/netizens-are-saying-ive-struggles-to-hit-high-notes-too-much-unlike-aespa/

 

It gives 

 

IVE are pretty disappointing vocally compared to Hyolyn(SISTAR) and WJSN  

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

18 hours ago, ZRH23 said:

 

I disagree on the agility part. Plenty of Korean singers (Pop or otherwise) have attempted runs and riffs... Not a lot are good at them . They definitely have enough materials, it just so happens that most of the materials just prove that runs and riffs are not their thing lmaooo. 

Some singers do try to improve or practice more on their runs. I'd take some of these occasions into account but it's not truly agile when it's a run you've practiced on repeatedly for a long time, while ending up off pitch for more spontaneous runs (like Sohyang). There are some who have somewhat more adept skill at runs and it's more of a 40/60 chance that they'll get it right (Hyolyn and in studio, Taeyeon). 

But I'd really only put it as an advantage if the runs can be used throughout your range and into high passages, something that not everybody can just practice on (Kyungsoo or 2Bic Jihwan).

Yeah overall, agility's usually not taken into much account...not because of lack of material, but because the majority of kpop singers are not good at it enough .

I've been meaning to ask this but I didn't know how to phrase my question properly. But is agility something you can work towards to develop, or is it predetermined by voice type? I recall the blog stating that a light lyric soprano on average should have more agility/predisposition to having their agility developed compared to a heavier voice type like a mezzo. But I'm pretty sure I can think of a few agile mezzos in pop music.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

13 hours ago, exodus05 said:

How good are the Nmixx girls? A lot of tiktok videos already claim they are better than Aespa. Is that really true?

Aespa has NN who's leaning towards AA, so no NMIXX isn't better overall. However, if you compare Lily and Haewon to Winter, Jinni to Karina (I've seen a few people who feel like we should wait for another video of her singing to say she supports truly, but some people here say she sounds like she could be average) and Sullyoon to Giselle. NMIXX is on par more or less, or not that far off. Bae and Kyujin are pretty good for a JYP sub-vocalist. I've heard people say Bae has some decent moments around F4/F#4 but not enough to quantify as true support, and Kyujin has some nice tonality in her lows and mix. NMIXX is the best JYP GG vocally since wonder girls. They're overall the strongest vocal group behind Aespa so far for 4th gen. Both groups have very limited material btw lol, so this can all change.

[Sarah Oon]

 

Does anyone else think Bada is dealing with some tongue tension? I noticed it in her recent covers as well. Also she does not have an affinity for agility at all lol.

[Sarah Oon]

Yeah ummmm, maybe it's the song choice but these Nmixx girls do not sound as strong as their qualifying videos lead us to believe lmao.

[Sarah Oon]

Is Liz really W-A with support up to Bb4? I haven't kept up with IVE lately, but the earlier stuff around their debut was largely unimpressive. 

[Sarah Oon]

I saw a discussion on YouTube that male vocalist rarely have developed head voices compared to female vocalist. Is that true? I thought it was interesting because I'm struggling to think of a male idol with a developed head voice. Is there any science behind this? @BAZISSINO

[Sarah Oon]

 

 

K-netz picked the top vocals for 4th gen so far.

Some of the inclusions on this list...

 

 

 

[Sarah Oon]

38 minutes ago, ZRH23 said:

Yeah that's why I gave that song as the comparison haha. Wendy, though her support on C#5s are solid, went straight into her nose and whiny. We can call it a difference in development because singing notes with a more nasal placement, with somewhat lighter coordination at that, is less taxing than what Taeyeon is doing and can do whenever she puts in the effort. The cords work more when you have to create that extra volume and projection. 

Generally, Taeyeon was always 'ranked' a bit higher than Wendy. But the gap was closer because the thoughts on Wendy were less critical. For example, we always knew that Wendy 'could not produce resonance' but it was always just amounted to lack of openness in the vocal tract. Now, I'd consider it a bit more of a severe issue because not only is she not resonant, she's also mostly whiny and has less presence in her belt even though the support is relatively full. It's an issue when pretty much everybody in AA to P has a better handle at projecting notes, and Wendy's the only one (aside from Minhye who at least isn't whiny and nasal) incapable of resonance at that level.

Wendy's head voice is still better than Taeyeon, yes, but not enough to be a significant advantage. Wendy's coordination is usually just light in her head voice and the range from G5 - A5 isn't really impressive, she rarely uses it well too. She's mostly controlled up to G5, a range where Taeyeon can still handle even tho it's less full. 

Wendy's lower range and midrange (like F#3 - A4) is fuller than Taeyeon yeah but Taeyeon isn't exactly messing it up either so there's not much disparity. The difference between their belting is the most obvious one. I wouldn't say belting is VERY much more prioritised, otherwise Minhye wouldn't be that high. It's a combination of all the registers and their control/development throughout, taking into account what they can or cannot do compared to one another. It can be quite relative. 

Do you think these issues have always been been present since inception and just overlooked (like how Seulgi was) or is this severity more of a recentish development? I remember once she came back from her hiatus she sounded whiner, lighter and more nasal than usually. But that can also be attributed to her hiatus and being out of practice with performing on stage too.

[Sarah Oon]

How does Luna's mix compare to the proficient girls like Taeyeon and Eunji? I've read some speculations that in terms of development of her mix, the gap between her some of the proficient girls isn't that big? @ZRH23

Edited March 20, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

@BAZISSINO@ZRH23 This is totally random, but would you still put Adele over Seulgi now that Seulgi had a reanalysis? 

[Sarah Oon]

21 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

Nayeon couldn't pull that off so I agree with somewhere around A. Talking about choa, 0:32 is so iconic for the tongue tension

 

Serving Lickitung 

[Sarah Oon]

2 hours ago, Devoux3817 said:

winter’s rank  the youtuber also said she was lower before coachella

At this point. Are we REALLY expecting an unbiased and informative vocal ranking and discussion from someone who considers Xtina one of the greats? 

[Sarah Oon]

 

 I was surprised to see that Karina hit at C#5 in step back and it didn't sound that bad for her level. Seems like she's relatively relaxed in the 5th octave.

[Sarah Oon]

4 hours ago, BabyKBK said:

Winter still sounds tight and shrill in the fifth octave in studio.

 

 

I've noticed that too and it's definitely an issue. I personally liked her phrased C5's and C#5 (the phrased C5's in some of their earlier title tracks had a degree of support imo) But anything above that can get into piercing land and loses that "full" sound.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

How is Yunjin doing here? I was waiting for some proper singing moments of her since she was singing very stylistically or her vocals were over processed on the debut mini.

 

Her mid range sounds nice but those belts and C5's seem very tight and tense. Do y'all think she's at least Average? Tbh some of the low averages sound better than her.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

 

OST featuring Ningning and Winter. Ningning mid range and lows sound nice and full. Winter sounds the same. Don't think they showed anything new for either. Is Ningning head voice in here supported? I thought it sounded nice.

[Sarah Oon]

52 minutes ago, Taeganger09 said:

I'm not gonna lie. Vocal game in recent kpop generations had been boring (as most of them float around weak to average land) until Aespa and Nmixx, even though they aren't that interesting compared to previous generations. So far, I think Lily and Haewon might have an edge over Ningning and Winter.

Yeah Haewon surprised with this new material recently because she sometimes she sounded quite messy and averageish in O.O live performances and radio shows (which isn't really the best song to indicate anything in the first place LMAO) and I want to hear more from her and hopefully NMIXX has a proper vocal song soon. Her and Lily are definitely ones to look out for. Haewon head voice seems supported to me too. Very full and connected. Her lows seem like they have potential too. I really like how full her midrange is, lowkey reminds me of cleaner and less stuck Seulgi.Both her and Lily seem well rounded in all their registers. Not many vocalist for 4th gen can say that, let alone a group having two of that caliber.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

Also was Winter doing more of a falsetto and not a true head voice right?

[Sarah Oon]

21 minutes ago, Ti Na said:

Vocal Lily> Haewon, however, I find Haewon more comprehensive than Lily. Low, Mix, Head Voice, Agility and the way Haewon sang the background for nmixx ..... she did it all well.
this is just my personal opinion

6/7 members of NMIXX can support based on this video

 

I want to hear more from Haewon because she seems more inconsistent or she has some issues going (specifically during O.O era) on that Lily doesn't imo. But then again, O.O isn't exactly the perfect song to evaluate by lol. Lily has also shown off her head voice more than Haewon has so we don't know the extent of what Haewon can do yet.

[Sarah Oon]

It’s way too soon to compare NMIXX and Aespa. NMIXX girlies literally take every opportunity to sing live every chance they get. Their mouths stay open  so they have way more material despite just debuting.Meanwhile Aespa still hasn’t shown us everything they are capable of along with some serious singing with effort (I want to hear more from Giselle, Karina and Ningning specifically) even though it’s been a year and a half Haewon, Lily and NingNing are definitely leagues above the rest. Overall they are the top two vocal lines of 4th gen so far and pretty much on par I think. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

9 hours ago, ZRH23 said:

 

She does actually, pretty consistently in a certain range. Taylor has some affinity/natural comfort for her lower range, but E3s are a bit of a stretch considering she's not actually trying to maintain support there most of the time. I haven't paid enough attention but I think I'd give a pass somewhere along G3 area maybe (unlikely) a bit under. Again, she's not really focusing full support there usually. Yea, she can support G#4s just fine. She just doesn't maintain the cord strength around A4-B4. 

How does Taylor’s lows compare to other idols with developed lower registers such as Seulgi or Tiffany in the average tier? The strength of her lows seem over exaggerated by fans imo. She sounds full and grounded there, but I wouldn't say anything past G3 like you say is supported. Mostly just tonality and comfort. Plus comparing her “supported” G#3/G3 to others such as Seulgi, Tiffany or even Karina and there's a stark difference between the quality of the support and development. Taylor sounds more comfortable than supported imo.Also, you really think she supports consistently enough in her mix to give her a supported range? I do think Taylor supports ever now and again in her mix like Jennie, Chaeyoung, Joy or Mina do. But I wouldn’t say it’s consistent enough for a supported range. Her live performances, even while standing still, can get messy and are usually cleaned up post production. Plus Taylor’s mix had a host of issues and just lacks a foundation. It veers more to talk singing to me.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

50 minutes ago, ZRH23 said:

Her lows are more like extension and natural comfort rather than support. I've heard her have decent tonality down to D3s but still go kinda airy on G3/F#3s and that's because she's not really focusing on 'supporting' it, she just lands it. So no, I wouldn't say they're more developed than Seulgi's. And yeah, she can have a supported range sort of, it's consistent enough. Tbh the support is way more present than the W vocalists and consistent too, it's not only there when she's 'talk singing'. 

 

1 hour ago, BabyKBK said:

Have no idea on Jennie but that's too harsh to compare Taylor with Chaeyoung, Joy or Mina. I actually don't think they've shown anything other than relaxed singing, no true support. Taylor, despite her issues can keep a more connected and bolder sound in the mid-range. She's closer to W-A than W IMO, there's some support there. 

Taylor is better than people give her credit for. I was always under the presumption that her lows was her most developed register and she was overall a non-singer. But now I need to watch more performances and use my ear to see how her midrange and mix is. I know it was brought before in a prior discussion that it's hard to estimate and detect support in the lower tiers like W or W-A because the singers are inconsistent with it.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sarah Oon

[Sarah Oon]

Can someone explain to me how Hyolyn is above the higher proficients like Taeyeon and Eunji? I've been watching queendom and all of her performances have been extremely light, bright and slightly pushy. Her output in her mix seems kinda meh compared to some of the higher P or P to G.