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Official Vocals thread (READ OP FIRST)


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Its odd how even though we consider Hyorin and Ailee "Good", they are considered average and every one below is....

Everyone has different standards used to judge a vocalist. I think her standards are higher while ours are lower given it's K-Pop lmao. Edited by suhunty
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Ailee's said herself that she lost weight by not exercising and starving herself. Her weight loss was indeed drastic (9kg by not exercising is truly tragic), so it did distort her overall breath management. Now, if she had lost weight properly, it'd be a different story.

How were her runs and the performance overall? Thanks~

YAAASSSS CANDICE! Fantastic performance. Her runs were great. She had a strongly supported sound throughout and her transition between registers and tonal changes were smooth, connected and well-coordinated.

Candice's musicianship is top-notch and her instrument is solid from bottom to top. Tbh, currently she might be the best young vocalist, at least in the US.

Edited by suhunty
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Bernard's G5 just sounds like a relatively connected falsetto to me. (And again, there's the echo effect from the fancam fooling...) It's not even as well-placed or as resonant as a falsettone (which is more limited in tone than a pure HV).

Edited by suhunty
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Yeah that exact sound, like this one too right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyKda-OWgE

 

iv'e heard it come out of many guys who weren't castrated at all but had nice lower ranges too, except we call it ''super head voice'' like in the title of that video, i also don't think you need to go that high to have a pure head voice

 

I was talking about this

 Super Head Voice is a synonym of whistle.

 

I meant Head. I was using mobile.

 

isnt a connected falsetto a HV plus it wasnt airy.

 

Emphasize on my use of ''relatively''. A falsetto doesn't necessarily have to be airy to be considered one. There are some falsetto notes that are more connected than others (hence why they sound like HV but aren't actually HV physiologically speaking), but do not have complete connection to be considered HV.

Edited by suhunty
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Was that sustained Bb4 by sting non nasal but pushed? I can sense the placement and projection was perfect for resonance but damn it sounded pushed. I can sense the lack of resonance but it doesnt seem like its got to do with his placement, but maybe his throat wasnt relaxed or it was just pushed?

Obviously compared to Pavarotti, it was more pushed and lacked of resonance, but it was still a powerful note. His throat was opened, hence it was relaxed.

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what is the requirement for good agility though?

Also a very forward placement, lighter mix and coordinated/connected registers.

 

Agility is the ability to sing any notes in your range, in any given speed, on any given dynamic and on any given vocal articulation with a wide range of vocal colors on ONE breath and with ease and effortlessness, so it's not just about runs. Things like registers transition is included in agility/flexibility too.

Edited by suhunty
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where did you read that? isn't that bad for your vocal chords?

I read an analysis from Chimier about the decline of her voice. Yes, it does have a bad effect on your cords condition. But since her cords were thick, it didn't really affect her voice that much or the majority of her vocal performances during her prime as they were still flawless. But it did after her prime.

Edited by suhunty
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I noticed the recent discussion about ,,unique voices,, (though that is subjective?)

In your opinion, is Baekhyun's from Exo voice tone ,,unique,, or does the slight nasality still present in his voice at some ranges add to that?

I've been pulling an all-nighter today, so my post may make no sense.

Yes, kind of. Or that it may be the WAY he sings that's distinct and unique rather than his tone itself. He has that "piercing" or "taut" quality in tone when he belts, especially in unison with others in the chorus that makes his voice identifiable, distinct. Lower in the voice, his voice is rough, slightly husky, which is different from the rest of his voice. Idk, I find it unique as I haven't heard anyone who sounds like him so far. People say Kyungsoo and him sound alike and I agree to a small extent but that's only when they both sing softly. When they increase volume, belt and change registers, that's when their vocal color become different from each other. Edited by suhunty
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I see, thanks .^^

Hey, aren't you the person in charge on exo's (AKA Baekhyun's) vocal analysis?

Yes, I am! I've been busy with work but I'm already halfway through it so it'll be up in a couple of weeks (at least I hope i can finish it till then lmao) Edited by suhunty
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Idk what people here have said about The One but

4:15 G#4 4:31 G#4 into C5 4:44 C5 and B4
 
This is Taeyeon's instructor. The way his vibrato brings tension to his neck/jaw and the way he places his mix in the back of his throat and closes his throat creating a small unprojected sound (not to mention his low notes), shows me exactly why Taeyeon learned to sing like she does. No low range, because he gave no fucks and then mix problems.
 
The One has good resonance up until A4, at least, so of course he's got skill up to a certain point. He also, however, has got some undesired vocal issues that create lots of bad habits and tension and can be passed on to his students. He is by far a better vocalist and instructor than ..let's say, Taeyeon herself and YG coaches, yes for sure. That's all he's got though, I would not put him on the same tier as Naul/Park Hyo Shin/Jung Dongha.

 

 

Sorry to intrude but...A lot of these issues are done for stylistic purpose. A lot of excellent K-ballad singers tend to reduce their column of sound as a way to emote. Sometimes, you have to wonder whether a singer is doing something on purpose or not. I have heard him resonating his ass off up to D5 in a fully medium column of sound with great vibrato (I have my receipts, but I'll link them tomorrow if you need it) so I don't think Josias was wrong, classifying him as an excellent vocalist.

Tbh, he was the reason why Taeyeon had a decent middle voice that could resonate. Her vocal coach after him was terrible and Taeyeon picked some bad habits bc of him.

Edited by suhunty
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You're welcome to intrude, I guess I've just been losing faith lately considering all the flops I've been watching... I can see how they'd be stylistic choices but I'd need to hear the good version of his singing done on purpose for me to really believe all of this, yknow? Still though, the other guys have low ranges and falsettos, he may have a falsetto idk bout but low lol

http://youtu.be/RZ1LwpafgFc

3:20 and onwards: he jumps to Bb4 and ascends up to C#5 with consistent vibrato without losing much power. Clearly, he doesn't show the same issues as PHS and co generally do in the top notes.

http://youtu.be/4Z8dDWEH4m8

3:35 G#4/Bb4 the sound is optimally resonant and extremely focused, more than PHS and co. Keep in mind he has a lighter voice than some of them.

4:13-4:34 Great vibrato. his last note has some throatiness but he ends the note by adjusting it to reduce the throaty quality and making the tone fuller, which speaks of his vocal control.

 

 

7:29-8:12 Great legato in some parts with full placement, one of the characteristics of a skilled full-lyric tenor.

 

He usually lessens his column of sound and uses throaty/raspy/aural tension effects as stylistic purpose (his style is mainly abt musical phrasing, which explains) but he's shown numerous times where he can manipulate his vocal tract in an optimal way to resonate with a well focused sound and a great vibrato (imo, none of the vocalists you've compared him to have a vibrato as great as his). He can also keep a solid sound in full placement in complex lines, which speaks of his legato and breath control. A very solid middle voice, idk much about chest voice and as for the upper extension, he uses a supported and relatively connected falsetto and sometimes, falsettone. Idk if it's an issue or a stylistic purpose, but he tends to mix extremely light above C5 / in the 5th octave, which I dislike.

Edited by suhunty
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Also, are you sure he's a full lyric? Because I was thinking Park Hyo Shin and Hwanhee would be examples of Full Lyric tenors and according to what Drew was saying, The One showed skills that are characteristics of a Full-Lyric, but in fact he has a much lighter and brighter voice and is a light lyric, who has the skill of one, according to him. So to me, Drew thinks The One is a Light-Lyric and that's what I was thinking this whole time too, this is the first time anyone calls him a full-lyric, to me.

I know the sound output and resonant qualities of a full-lyric when I hear one. He's definitely a full-lyric. As for PHS and Hwanhee, they're just simply heavier full-lyrics or close to the spinto voice. It's not the first time anyone calls him a full-lyric. Josias claims so, as well, if you remember.

 

Alright let's agree to disagree about his upper range, lol. However, one thing we can all agree on is that his middle voice up to Bb4 is extremely solid. I don't think someone who's just ''competent''/''good'' has the ability to resonate THAT perfectly within his supported range.

Edited by suhunty
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....THE DUDE'S JAW BE LIKE  :ahmagah:  :ahmagah:  :ahmagah:  ALL THE TIME LOL, like he's about to cry during every ballad he sings, I don't even know how it's possible to make the excuse that he can't drop his jaw because of his underbite when he has clearly shown the ability to do so other times. Is that really the argument we're gonna go with here? He simply does not do it when it's necessary on the EE vowels, which is not surprising seeing as how a lot of singers don't know this without a teacher or something (a good one, anyway).

Obviously, he has a purpose and that's exactly the point. That is what he's trying to convey to the audience. He's clearly doing it for visual effects as well, given the type of songs he performs. The One isn't an opera singer, nor a classical one. There's no requirement for him to resonate perfectly in that standard. Comtemporary singing gives you freedom to defy some of the rules of vocalism for your own interpretation and musicianship. I see no problems with what he does.

Edited by suhunty
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  • 4 weeks later...

was mariah's head voice very developed? or was it neglected

im pretty sure her head voice was developed, she just didnt use it as much as say, whitney

no, not even close. HV is the only portion of her voice that's lacking in quality in comparison to the rest of her voice, which is why some vocal pedagogues do not consider her a great technician as she does not have an even scale or a completely homogeneous and connected instrument from bottom to top. she uses falsetto most of the time, which makes sense considering the overuse of her airy vocals, her nodules and her drinking habit. She has rare HV moments, but they're not rly developed. The peak of her HV was in the 2000s since it's around that time that she's been using it more and I guess using it more helped her in improving it (although it's still not as developed, vibrant and truly ringing as a lot of singers who have a developed HV). And It's interesting bc the peak of each of her vocal registers happened in different times, lmao.

Edited by suhunty
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wlszavf1Wsk

 

Yuju from Gfriend might be one of the top vocalists in Kpop. As you can hear at 5:06, she has a great mix up to F#5 (which she has shown more than once).

 

 

Also, according to the video above, she uses head voice, has good register transitions and has a good agility (she does some good runs). And again, resonance up to F#5.

Might keep an eye on her.

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To me she's young and therefore inconsistent. In the first video you showed the F#5 was a lot better than notes she did below and those were significantly easier notes as well. She definitely has the skill she's just inconsistent. As of now I couldn't even tell you what her supported range is because it's so scattered.

That doesn't necessarily make her inconsistent. You have a lot of great vocalists, Mariah, Whitney, Bey, etc who don't produce an optimal sound on 'easier', 'unimportant' notes a lot of times. Heck, sometimes they even make those notes nasal and thin, which isn't problem when they know how to adjust it back to an optimal sound, similarly to what Yuju was doing in the video I shared. Does that mean they're inconsistent as well? Sure, if they were in opera...

 

Is Baekhyun a light lyric tenor like most vocalists in kpop?

Because his voice is kind of low and powerful, I guess it's not dark enough for him to be a dramatic tenor but maybe he is something in between?

 

He's a light-lyric tenor, but on the heavier side. It's not deep and dark enough to be a dramatic tenor, spinto or a full lyric voice.

Edited by suhunty
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But aren't those often stylistic choices? Like how they can strain a note whenever they want but then change it to a resonant note the next.

Yes. Other times, they're lazy as they don't feel the need to produce easy/unimportant notes that well. Jordin Sparks is a good example. I think, as long as you do it purposely or/and know how to adjust it back to a proper tone, (Naul is a good example as well, when it comes to nasality) then you're fine.

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  • 4 weeks later...

so I have a prac assessment coming up in a few weeks so I was wondering if you guys knew any good jazz standards for a mezzo?

Jane Monheit.

 

 

What is the difference between the way the note was sung in that version and in this version below (also at 2:49)? I'm curious because all I can hear is that it sounds different, but I don't know why.

 

The note in this version was sung with less airy quality. 

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  • 1 month later...

 

 

Is this live? This is Mariah's new show. If it was live, how well did she do? My untrained ears say she did alright but kind of strained(?) a lot but what do I know.

 

With Mariah's performances, it's never completely live lol, at least not the high notes. The high notes in Fantasy were from the 90's and she used the pre-recorded track from 2013 for We Belong Together. 

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Please, someone give me a shot. It would be less painful. :cry:

 

 

 

Vocal Pop used Jaejoong as an example for Leggero Tenor in this video, "Great Agility Technic". :omg:

Please, someone explain to him how to classify a vocalist?

The examples of agility are nonexistent.....

Leggiero is a skill. You can't possibly classify someone who has not shown coloratura as a leggiero tenor. The same way you can't classify a female singer with no actual agility or with a weak vocal technique as coloratura soprano. Jaejoong has the placement of a tenor and a weight very close to a leggiero tenor's. But skill wise? Lmaooo.

Edited by suhunty
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